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Hans Zimmer's WONDER WOMAN 1984 (2020)


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Okay, ASCAP has just barely got the full cue credits to WW84, down to them still adding entries every check that I have made so far. I'll post what the list currently is, and update if there is any mo

That sounds very Hans. Who cares what it's for. It's a DC song right? Just throw it in there!

5 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

New track, before the soundtrack get released next Wednesday.

 

I'm honestly surprised.

It's more orchestratic than i expected it to be, especially the second half. It somehow reminds me of "Battle for Pride Rock" in The Lion King.

 

And as a lot  has pointed, it has a really good energy and brings back "the old " Zimmer.

 

This sounds really promosing. Cant wait for the full soundtrack.

 

Really, what happens with Zimmer? I mean, in a good way of course.

Does he find something that really inspired him lately?

 

 

My god, 1:05 and 2:00 onwards are fucking obnoxious. 

This is why I can't stand to listen to Zimmer, among many other things. How can you produce shit that sounds like a monkey is hitting the same 3 buttons with brute force over and over? 

It's still the sound of the first PotC movie, which was 20 years ago. Pathetic. 

 

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Here's the tracklist for the album:

 

1. Themyscira
2. Games
3. 1984
4. Black Gold
5. Wish We Had More Time
6. The Stone
7. Cheetah
8. Fireworks
9. Anything You Want
10. Open Road
11. Without Armor
12. The White House
13. Already Gone
14. Radio Waves
15. Lord of Desire
16. The Beauty In What Is
17. Truth
18. Lost and Found (Bonus Track)

 

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2020/12/10/wonder-woman-1984-soundtrack-album-details/

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25 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Not the riff. RGW wrote an actual theme. This one - 

 

 

 

I mean yeah, but that's a play on the riff.

 

It's beautiful transformation and far greater than where I would've expected that riff to go, but what you linked is still a variant on her riff, just much slower and some notes changed with each repetition. It's a very clever and wonderful way of evolving what I thought was a one off riff that could never go anywhere. 

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Just listened to Zimmer's track. It's basically just an orchestrated version of his WW theme from BvS.

 

Between this and last year's Lion King, is it my impression or Hans is getting more... orchestral, more traditional over the last few years? I'm sure he still uses lots of synths, but maybe after Dunkirk he got tired of writing experimental scores?

 

WW84 could've been a great opportunity for a synth 80s score, kinda like Black Rain, but he decided to go for more traditional colors.

 

Maybe he'll go back to his weird ideas with Dune?

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2 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

I mean yeah, but that's a play on the riff.

 

It's beautiful transformation and far greater than where I would've expected that riff to go, but what you linked is still a variant on her riff, just much slower and some notes changed with each repetition. It's a very clever and wonderful way of evolving what I thought was a one off riff that could never go anywhere. 

 

I guess I am not hearing it. I have a hard time making out how the riff is the same as RGW's theme.

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26 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I guess I am not hearing it. I have a hard time making out how the riff is the same as RGW's theme.

 

I didn't hear it at first either, but here it is simplified at the video essay that made me realize it as well (begins at the relevant section):

 

Essentially RGW slowed that riff down and focused on the first four notes, changing them in different ways to form a proper more courageous theme. It's absolutely still the riff from Zimmer with the same notes and basic structure and timing, but reworked. At the very least it's heavily based on / influenced by it.

 

I think it's quite clever of him to do it this way. You maintain that subconscious thematic connectivity while making it something that feels so new and fresh. He took what was (in my mind) an inflexible, repetitive, loud, and bombastic, action riff and made it have some emotional resonance. 

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36 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

I didn't hear it at first either, but here it is simplified at the video essay that made me realize it as well (begins at the relevant section):

 

Essentially RGW slowed that riff down and focused on the first four notes, changing them in different ways to form a proper more courageous theme. It's absolutely still the riff from Zimmer with the same notes and basic structure and timing, but reworked. At the very least it's heavily based on / influenced by it.

 

I think it's quite clever of him to do it this way. You maintain that subconscious thematic connectivity while making it something that feels so new and fresh. He took what was (in my mind) an inflexible, repetitive, loud, and bombastic, action riff and made it have some emotional resonance. 

 

I don't buy it. The rest of the theme doesn't invent itself. There are a lot of far fetched videos on youtube even about Willliams which talk about how this or that are the same theme and how they were made etc.

 

RGW's theme is a long lined theme with several phrases and its own arc and structure. Sure one of the first few notes might have been same for the sake of consistency but that doesn't make it the same theme to me.

 

Maybe I am musically illiterate though lol.

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I don't buy it. The rest of the theme doesn't invent itself. There are a lot of far fetched videos on youtube even about Willliams which talk about how this or that are the same theme and how they were made etc.

 

RGW's theme is a long lined theme with several phrases and its own arc and structure. Sure one of the first few notes might have been same for the sake of consistency but that doesn't make it the same theme to me.

 

Maybe I am musically illiterate though lol.

 

I imagined a Youtube video essay wouldn't be taken too seriously here lol, but I reference it for simplifying the notes on the piano there, which really brings out the similarities.

 

I don't know, personally, I can hear it with each phrase. It basically just sounds like the riff, but much slower and with some alterations in notes along the way. And of course played with more emotional impact. Those early examples in the training scenes with the more eerie solo cello sound in my mind are straight up quotes on the riff, so it's not impossible that it is rearranged versions of the riff or is at least very influenced by it.

 

In the example you linked, I hear that four note riff at 2:21, 2:26, 2:33, 2:38, 2:44...you get the idea. Each one of those is that phrase of four main notes, but with most notably the last note altered. Instead of it heading down, it lingers on the same note twice in some places, others it goes up, and of course it's being transposed up or down at times. It has the same rhythm to me (while of course being slower) and the same main relationship between the four notes of the phrase while changing things here or there to say something new with it. It's like when you play Kylo Ren's theme in major. Some of the notes changed to give a new heroic flair, but it is still, at it's core, that same theme. 

 

Intentional or not though, it is too similar for me to unhear it now and I like the idea of musical consistency that and being tied to who she eventually becomes when the riff is played as is. 

 

To get slightly back on topic, since I think that RGW's theme is a rework on the riff, I would imagine it could appear in 1984

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Initial impressions (since it did barely leak): really happy that Zimmer actually did go for sounding more like his older self for a good chunk of it, but the end result is predictably a bit uneven.

I personally feel it hangs together better than MoS and BvS, on the basis that it's better paced and doesn't feel anywhere near as meandering as those do. Cues like "1984" and "Black Gold" seriously surprised me in how traditional they sounded, even more so than on some earlier projects of his (though I'm sure the naysayers will find some way to deem them amateurish anyway). "Themyscira" still remains a pretty solid tune, finding a good balance of being able to freshen up some of his previous tricks. And "Games" gets points for being able to remind me of Cool Runnings.

However, past a certain point, it does run into sounding like a hodgepodge of some of his lesser traits of recent times. The more colorful palette the first couple of tracks have aren't particularly prominent later on, which does somewhat make it feel a bit stylistically confused. These two halves so far don't quite gel together that greatly, which perhaps could be better informed by the film itself (and of course missing material). And outside of what's taken from the opening track, I didn't pick up much on motifs outside of this odd Balfe-ish sound riff for Cheetah, despite being the director mentioning how theme heavy it'd be. There's some effort to be 80s sounding with some of the synths, but it doesn't quite go far enough.

I need to give it more goes, but suffice it to say that I can imagine this score going down much better for some people compared to Zimmer's other recent efforts. Given I'm someone who actually enjoyed something like Dark Phoenix, this one ranges in the "just okay" territory for me currently. Doesn't really have much of a general hook for me yet, but I definitely feel it's more solidly put together than his other DCEU efforts (despite also feeling those definitely having the stronger individual highlights).

 

(Also, I seriously didn't care for RGW's incredibly derivative outing on the first film when I gave that a spin a while back, so I'm glad that HZ was able to at least make something that had a more concrete identity to it.)

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5 hours ago, The Big Man said:

 

Why does he hate hi-fi so much??

 

No idea. I think he'd rather he songs be played on the radio or more friendly to consumers that don't like adjusting the volume or something. I honestly don't know.

 

It's one thing to compress dynamics a bit. Honestly, most scores do nowadays, but when I can actively hear it getting crunched to the breaking point...it's not good or pleasant to listen to.

 

Even Giacchino and Melumad's recently Medal of Honor score had a track or too with some over compression issues though. So I think it just depends on the context.

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Wow!

 

"Everyone : HZ can't do orchestra! I miss the old HZ :( "

"WW84's Zimmer : Hold my beer 🍺"

 

This is the score that we've been waiting for from HZ!

This whole soundtrack is a throwback to 90s Zimmer

 

This track is pure highlight!

 

^^ I love how CORNY it sounds, And that's what we want!

This is like HZ's spin on Olympic-like fanfare ( delibarate pun on JW's 1984 Olympic?)

 

Lion King Throwback: this "love" theme 

 

Crimson Tide throwback:

 

These strings movement ❤️

 

 

Haven't listened to full soundtrack though,

but these  tracks do bring a wide smile on my face.

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It certainly has a couple of fine tracks, but also quite a bit of irritating stuff. I need to whittle it down from a ludicrous 93 minutes to the half. I had hoped for something more synth-driven, but when it is what it is, it's fine. Instead of going for the 80s synth aesthetics, he seems to nurture the decades' orchestral adventure scoring in tracks such as "1984", the best cue on the album.

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2 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

Wow!

 

"Everyone : HZ can't do orchestra! I miss the old HZ :( "

"WW84's Zimmer : Hold my beer 🍺"

 

This is the score that we've been waiting for from HZ!

This whole soundtrack is a throwback to 90s Zimmer

 

This track is pure highlight!

 

^^ I love how CORNY it sounds, And that's what we want!

This is like HZ's spin on Olympic-like fanfare ( delibarate pun on JW's 1984 Olympic?)

 

Lion King Throwback: this "love" theme 

 

Crimson Tide throwback:

 

These strings movement ❤️

 

 

Haven't listened to full soundtrack though,

but these  tracks do bring a wide smile on my face.

 

Hate to disappoint you, but "old HZ" couldn't do orchestra either. 

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3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The phrase at 

1:04

and then again at 

1:52

in this track.

 

Is this new or from BvS too?

 

 

 

Thats the riff. It's just played more heroically. Maybe in a major key? I don't honestly know exactly what is musically different, but it's the same old riff.

 

MERGED:

Listening to the whole score while working on some visuals only projects. My random thoughts:

  • The orchestra sounds too clean and robotic, almost synth or sampled orchestra in some of the tracks ("Games")
  • The softer string moments remind me a lot of similar moments from National Treasure. That patriotic, americana vibe. ("Games" 3:38-End,  "Wish We Had More Time", "Without Armor" first half)
  • Pleasantly surprised by "1984", definitely my favorite of the bunch. Lots to say about it. The orchestra sound nice and vibrant here (and not synthetic). Also really like the variant on the riff in the last part of this track. It's optimistic, heroic, and fun. This kind of stuff is what it felt like Elfman was trying to achieve during moments in Justice League, but just didn't make it. This track and "Black Gold" are quite fun.
  • "Wish We Had More Time" is nice and has that classic sound. One of the areas where I presume people talk about Old Zimmer shining through.
  • "The Stone" is weird and goofy. Getting...almost Wreck-It Ralph vibes here (see the cue "Messing with the Program" I believe)
  • Not really getting much of a theme for Cheetah. Just menacing echoy horn blast sounds. Which is fine I guess. Idk. Nothing very strong in her track.
  • I still hate "Open Road". Just a wall of loud noise. I appreciate that it tries to go more orchestral vs relying on the same electric cello sound, but it just doesn't land. It feels thin, synthy, and whimpy compared to the equivalent "Wonder Woman's Wrath" by Rupert Gregson-Williams. Some of that may be that it's compressed to hell and loses any of the power it might have in the full dynamic film mix.
  • After "Open Road" the second half of the Album didn't make much of an impression. It's fine. Not bad, but nothing much else we didn't already have I don't think. Nothing I picked out on a first listen at least. I think "White House" is kind of fun too, but that's all I really have about the second half.

Overall - it's alright.

 

The only thread connecting this to other Wonder Woman appearances is still "The Riff", which stays closer to it's original tempo throughout this score, although it does have some fun variants. Perhaps it appears in some of the slower tracks as well. I didn't immediately pick it out on a first listen though. The more eerie and slow cello version from Rupert Gregson-Williams' score does appear at the beginning of "Themyscira" over what I assume is the opening logos.

 

It's more than I expected from Zimmer. Tracks like "Themyscira", "1984", and "Wish We Had More Time" are some top of my head highlights.

 

There are definitely moments when I can hear some of the 90s Zimmer as well as things that remind me of DaVinci Code, Angels and Demons, or Lion King. Those are only moments though and rarely stick around for a whole track. I would've preferred if he really went all out on being his past self and I too was hoping for something more obviously synth-driven with Zimmer as the composer. Just something to bring more nostalgia to the table, but perhaps that isn't what the film calls for.

 

The score as a whole is definitely not a "return to form", but it's fine enough I suppose. I'm curious to hear it in the film and experience a more dynamic mix and maybe some cool unreleased cues.

 

I will absolutely still listen to Rupert Gregson-Williams' score to the first movie far more. I may revisit select tracks from this one and who knows, maybe it will grow on me? For now though, I didn't find enough special about it to want to immediately listen again.

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9 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said:

Probably is synth, or quantized.

 

I was wondering. Some tracks sound fine, but others have a very sampled sound. Surely they would've recorded with an orchestra though before the pandemic considering it was supposed to release in November 2019 at one point before it was delayed to June. I still assume with that date they had recorded the score already before the pandemic was even a thing in the US.

 

It could just be the way it's mixed though too. I thought the trumpet in the opening of Amazing Spider-Man 2 sounded oddly synthetic, but that was real.

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1 minute ago, TSMefford said:

 

I was wondering. Some tracks sound fine, but others have a very sampled sound. Surely they would've recorded with an orchestra though before the pandemic considering it was supposed to release in November 2019 at one point before it was delayed to June. I still assume with that date they had recorded the score already before the pandemic was even a thing in the US.

Zimmer liked to do that even before the pandemix.

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20 minutes ago, ManofDestiny said:

Catalog ID: WaterTower 32063 CDR
Shipping Date: 16 December 2020

 

There will be physical release.

But looks like it is CDr.

And the price is 12US dollars, so I assume that it is a one CD release?

I could be wrong because there is no track list for this CD yet.

 

We're at the point where we can't trust Amazon to supply pressed CDs from WaterTower. You need to order directly from WaterTower or find an eBay reseller.

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I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but from what I've heard there's not a track as good as RGW's Amazons of Themyscira. 

 

 

This cue is so good, it reminds me of 2000s RC scores, such as Narnia, Kingdom of Heaven and King Arthur.

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10 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

No idea. I think he'd rather he songs be played on the radio or more friendly to consumers that don't like adjusting the volume or something. I honestly don't know.

 

It's one thing to compress dynamics a bit. Honestly, most scores do nowadays, but when I can actively hear it getting crunched to the breaking point...it's not good or pleasant to listen to.

 

Even Giacchino and Melumad's recently Medal of Honor score had a track or too with some over compression issues though. So I think it just depends on the context.

 

Seems they've resigned to people just listening to music on their telephone loudspeaker. This is sad.

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but from what I've heard there's not a track as good as RGW's Amazons of Themyscira. 

 

 

This cue is so good, it reminds me of 2000s RC scores, such as Narnia, Kingdom of Heaven and King Arthur.

 

No definitely not. I wouldn't say that anything in this score comes close to any track on the original Wonder Woman OST.

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4 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Thats the riff. It's just played more heroically. Maybe in a major key? I don't honestly know exactly what is musically different, but it's the same old riff.

 

 

 

Thanks. Musically I can make out it is the first phrase of the riff in a different key.

 

I guess I am asking if this particular statement of this phrase has been used before in BvS, WW or JL or is being debuted in WW84?

 

I am asking because I am not very familiar with the previous 3 scores.

 

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2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but from what I've heard there's not a track as good as RGW's Amazons of Themyscira. 

 

 

This cue is so good, it reminds me of 2000s RC scores, such as Narnia, Kingdom of Heaven and King Arthur.

 

Meh. I prefer Zimmer's opening cue, to be honest. Haven't heard the rest of the score yet.

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11 hours ago, Thor said:

It certainly has a couple of fine tracks, but also quite a bit of irritating stuff. I need to whittle it down from a ludicrous 93 minutes to the half.

 

You can't do that! This 93 minutes album represents the composer's artistic intentions, Thor. Who are you to play record producer?

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Thanks. Musically I can make out it is the first phrase of the riff in a different key.

 

I guess I am asking if this particular statement of this phrase has been used before in BvS, WW or JL or is being debuted in WW84?

 

I am asking because I am not very familiar with the previous 3 scores.

 

 

Ah. Then no, I don't believe the riff has appeared quite like this, no.

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Okay, I am going to come out and say it. And I know I am certainly not known as a Zimmer lover here.

 

This track from 0:26 to 2:59 is absolutely outstanding.

 

 

it is absolutely majestic, euphoric and celebratory. An extraordinarily rousing and ecstatic piece of music. 

 

And what makes it is the killer phrase starting at 1:04 and 1:53, specially the latter instance from where it builds and builds. Let's call it the new Diana theme - it is insanely heroic sounding - almost as much Williams' Superman. There is something so soaring about its climbing phrases - it communicates a sense of awe.

 

Now some BUTs - 

 

I have never been a fan of the actual riff. I don't like the portion from 0:00 to 0:25 which features the riff in its original form. I never found that music particular suited to a superhero. But this new Diana theme from 0:26 is a gangbuster, absolutely perfect for a demi-goddess superheroine.

 

And now some more BUTs - 

 

This track sounds like a midi track. It is clearly completely processed, the choir sounds completely synth, even the brass and many of the instruments sound synth. The choir sounds sampled because for an all female choir, it achieves some very low deep bass notes. I don't think you'd be able to have an all female choir achieve that sound, you'd need men as well. So this is a completely unnatural sounding cue in its current form.

 

And now for some IFs - 

 

If this cue  - namely the section from - 0:26 to 2:59 - were actually recorded with a large orchestra and with an enormous choir of both men and women - with no synths - just actual real dense orchestra with texture and human real voices - it would be a towering masterpiece. It would be so powerful that it would become a staple of the concert repertoire for choral music. It is that good. It would open the piece up from its currently processed artificial midi synth-y sound and make it even more grand in scope.

 

NEVERTHELESS - 

 

As it stands, this is a superb cue - perfect fit for a demigoddess, perfect fit for an optimistic superhero. Hell it wouldn't be out of place at the coronation of a monarch. It is that good.

 

I will stop now.

 

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I'll waiting this release, the time period let me hoping he's use 80's electro sound, it will be perfect. But he try to do symphonic Amblin music, it's a quite embarrassing...

Hans is definitly broken since BvS :(

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3 minutes ago, Obi said:

I'll waiting this release, the time period let me hoping he's use 80's electro sound, it will be perfect.

 

Alas, there is none of it. Nor is it a 'throwback' to his 90s style, which seems to be a popular notion -- which makes me think whoever says it is too young to have experienced the 90s, or Zimmer's work in the decade. If there's any throwback, it's Zimmer attempting the orchestral adventure style of the 80s in a few tracks. The rest is pure, contemporary Zimmer with loud action ostinati.

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