bollemanneke 3,999 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 What I want to know is: does that AFM rule prevent Mike from actually doing these titles now? As inn, could labels technically pay for all of them and wait until some idiot somewhere has a good day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard P 4,752 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I suppose Mike could do all the musical work, but the labels aren't going to want to pay him to do that without the expectation of a release at the end, surely. Scores with deteriorating elements are another matter and digitising them would be a priority, but scores that are just a set of digital sessions don't need rescuing to start with. enderdrag64 and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,999 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 But would there not be a chance of release? I mean, how likely is it these rules are never going to be sorted out, ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard P 4,752 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 It's a pretty open ended problem really isn't it - if the legal groundwork won't allow its release and there is no expectation it will change soon, then a label couldn't anticipate a return. Roger mentioned they'd looked into a waiver for Avatar, and I'd fully expect them to have confirmed whether that was a movable obstacle before putting major cash into doing the score. Of course, projects get cancelled for a variety of reasons, with significant sunk capital, but I'd expect them to be unforseen or exceptional issues, and not 'the AFM said no... again'. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 11,343 Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 And it's not like Mike has so little to work on and so much free time that he'd waste it on putting work into scores that may or may not be released in years or decades instead of scores that will get released in months or years. bollemanneke, Yavar Moradi, Richard P and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 3,542 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 The recording dates actually don't matter, @Amer. It's the release date of the film itself that matters. See MV's January 4 post here: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=158900&forumID=1&archive=0 "For the last time, we aren't doing TG Maverick...and any film or tv show recorded with the AFM that was released after Aug 15 2005 can't be expanded or released due to high reuse fees. LEGEND OF ZORRO was released in Oct 2005. Hopefully, one day, this outdated rule will be lifted. As for more Bond -- we would rather release 4 Bond titles that sell and pay the bills than 20 non Bond titles that don't even break even including titles by top composers. Sales are not what they used to be unless you release a highly desired title that appeals beyond this ever shrinking film score cd marketplace MV" Yavar Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 42,358 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Yes, MV said films released after Aug 15 2005, however Mike M has said scores recorded after July 3 2005 For AFM recordings made before July 3, 2005, NO reuse needs to be paid to the musicians at all, provided a) that it’s for a physical format release with a 5000 unit maximum, and b) that the musicians list is published, preferably in the packaging. For recordings made after that date, whatever the musicians were paid to record the score for the film has to be paid to them again, 100%. That’s why it’s called “reuse”. They were paid to play music for sync purposes, but an album is a new use. So, hypothetically, if 120 people were paid $360,000 to record the music for the film (musicians, orchestrators, copyists, at an average of $3K a person), then a label would have to pay that exact same amount to AFM in order to put out an expanded album. That makes it impossible to consider even before you get to licensing, publishing, production and manufacturing. The 2005 date was established in 2015 and applied to recordings going back 10 years prior, but unfortunately it was not a “sliding” date as it really should have been. Mike Which is correct? I have no idea. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 1,420 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Jay said: Which is correct? I have no idea. Neither it looks like, the official AFM rules say "Upon the request of a Producer, the Federation shall, in good faith, grant waivers to allow the release of sound track albums recorded before August 14, 2005 without the necessity of payment in advance of, or upon, release." https://www.afm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2020-Basic-Theatrical-Motion-Picture-Agreement.pdf, page 14 Brando and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 42,358 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 It makes perfect sense that it would relate to the recording dates and not the film's release date. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,527 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 29 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said: Neither it looks like, the official AFM rules say "Upon the request of a Producer, the Federation shall, in good faith, grant waivers to allow the release of sound track albums recorded before August 14, 2005 without the necessity of payment in advance of, or upon, release." https://www.afm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2020-Basic-Theatrical-Motion-Picture-Agreement.pdf, page 14 27 minutes ago, Jay said: It makes perfect sense that it would relate to the recording dates and not the film's release date. If that is the case, then is there still a chance of getting remastered and expanded releases of the Maestro's score to Memoirs of a Geisha and/or Munich? This year marks the 20th anniversary of both films, so it would be a great opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 42,358 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I have no idea when those scores were recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,527 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Well, both Munich and Memoirs of a Geisha were released in theaters on December 23th, 2005. Memoirs of a Geisha premiered in Tokyo on November 29th. Hmm. That may cut it close for both, but it is certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 1,420 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Wikipedia says Geisha's OST album released on 11/22/2005 I'd expect from that the sessions were probably around August-September but I'm not certain, the OST booklet doesn't seem to mention recording dates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted March 7 Popular Post Share Posted March 7 JOHN WILLIAMS: A COMPOSER’S LIFE by Tim Greiving is the first major biography on the renowned composer. It will be published by Oxford Academic (Oxford University Press) on September 1, 2025. “Seeking to understand what drove Williams's musical productivity and its effects on the lives of those close to him, Greiving delves deeply into the composer's decades-long career, uncovering countless new stories and revelations. Throughout, he analyzes and describes Williams' film scores, recalling them primarily in narrative and emotional terms rather than purely musicological ones, and in doing so emphasizes one of Williams's principle strengths: his musical storytelling. With unprecedented interview access to Williams and those close to him, Greiving presents the definitive portrait of a beloved but famously private doyen of twentieth-century pop culture.” You can pre-order your copy at the following link: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/john-williams-9780197620885 Stay tuned for exclusive content about the book on The Legacy of John Williams as we get closer to release date! https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid07utUMnY1XXacnx3pHECbmtKVMD6W5XZ8wemDQVo4PFDRK38nsYbcTBhT6CzDbkyUl Brando, Once, Alan and 4 others 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted March 13 Popular Post Share Posted March 13 The Legacy of John Williams were delighted to participate in Shout! Studios’ new retrospective making of for their 4K release of Far and Away. We discuss the huge impact John Williams’ score makes to the film and I relished the opportunity to credit James Thatcher’s stunning horn solos. Thanks to Brian Ward and Jon Donahue for the invite🥂! https://www.facebook.com/timburdenvoiceovers/posts/pfbid02n3qDhH9x1WgSD1Tg87sFvi34q3fsc7MHLyq8eJT9ucSUWQdpcE2mfVVAj75wroJ9l Product page: https://shoutfactory.com/products/far-and-away-collectors-edition-exclusive-poster Sylvan, Once, enderdrag64 and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 2,180 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 I like that title font better than what was used in the LLL. (though the LLL uses the poster or final film credits IRRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 4,960 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 But the colours shout out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,495 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 21 hours ago, Jay said: The Legacy of John Williams were delighted to participate in Shout! Studios’ new retrospective making of for their 4K release of Far and Away. We discuss the huge impact John Williams’ score makes to the film and I relished the opportunity to credit James Thatcher’s stunning horn solos. Thanks to Brian Ward and Jon Donahue for the invite🥂! https://www.facebook.com/timburdenvoiceovers/posts/pfbid02n3qDhH9x1WgSD1Tg87sFvi34q3fsc7MHLyq8eJT9ucSUWQdpcE2mfVVAj75wroJ9l Product page: https://shoutfactory.com/products/far-and-away-collectors-edition-exclusive-poster A bit off topic but I'm surprised (and disappointed) they didn't find a way to include the extended TV cut. Guess that'll never be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 42,358 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I'd assume the master for the extended cut burned up in the Universal fire, so someone would have to rebuild it @Croweyes1121 did give Ron Howard a copy of his restoration of it on blu ray at least enderdrag64, Brando, bollemanneke and 3 others 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted March 18 Popular Post Share Posted March 18 The long-awaited podcast episode on The Reivers is coming at the end of this week to celebrate the arrival of Spring--and yes, it also includes discussion on The Patriot. In the meantime, we've just published a longform article chronicling John Williams' journey into the Americana vernacular, with all its different facets and applications of style throughout the decades. I hope you will enjoy: https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/03/18/john-williams-and-the-american-sound/ https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=159362&forumID=1&archive=0 Amer, Once, WampaRat and 11 others 7 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ConorPower 177 Posted March 18 Popular Post Share Posted March 18 A really great read, @TownerFan! It’s quite nice to have this evolution of Williams’s Americana synthesised chronologically and so comprehensively. Especially so, on the eve of the new release of The Reivers, a score which is really marks the maturation of Williams’s Americana - alongside The Cowboys. If anyone is interested in supplementing TLOJW article with something more academic. I’ll leave this here (shameless plug, I know). I delve quite a bit into Lincoln and The Cowboys and offer some comparisons between the marches and fanfares of other Americana: https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/id/eprint/18642/1/Composing America C_Power PhD thesis.pdf BrotherSound, Joni Wiljami, MaxTheHouseelf and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted March 21 Popular Post Share Posted March 21 Reivers / Patriot / Matessino / Takis! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/03/21/the-reivers-the-patriot-podcast/ Once, Yavar Moradi, bollemanneke and 10 others 8 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,487 Posted March 21 Popular Post Share Posted March 21 Mike mentions he needs to get back to work on some things they’ll be discussing on the podcast in the future. Not terribly surprising, but always good to have confirmation more JW projects are in the pipeline! Amer, Brando, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted March 21 Popular Post Share Posted March 21 I loved the connections made between The Reivers and The Patriot, with the Americana sound and that both were initially attached to other composers. And the I especially enjoyed the discussion of the inevitability of the future while talking about The Reivers Yavar Moradi, BrotherSound, ConorPower and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Meredith McKay 7,843 Posted March 21 Popular Post Share Posted March 21 14 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: Mike mentions he needs to get back to work on some things they’ll be discussing on the podcast in the future. Not terribly surprising, but always good to have confirmation more JW projects are in the pipeline! He's got to finish the 23 disc Star Wars set! Once, Brando, Amer and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,487 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 It was interesting to hear that this new release of The Reivers had its origins in the intention of using some of the music in last year’s Music By John Williams documentary, even though that ended up not happening (a re-recording was used instead). Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 11,343 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Another great talk with lots of interesting tidbits! Loved the further digs at Didier and all the connections made between the scores of this era. Man, Reivers sounds so good. Can't wait to get it, I think I'll love it! Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,524 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, BrotherSound said: It was interesting to hear that this new release of The Reivers had its origins in the intention of using some of the music in last year’s Music By John Williams documentary, even though that ended up not happening (a re-recording was used instead). That was a very fascinating story ! I love it when something simple suddenly turns into a unexpected reality. Mind blown. Also I'm curious as to what's next as hinted. Matessino is already working on the next titles as I write this while reading every one's feedback. Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted June 12 Popular Post Share Posted June 12 New podcast episode hosted by @mahler3! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/06/12/re-recording-john-williams-podcast-special/ New article written by @Maurizio! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/06/12/john-williams-rerecordings-essay/ BachSkywalker, BB-8, bollemanneke and 9 others 8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maurizio 5,837 Posted June 13 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 13 17 hours ago, Jay said: New podcast episode hosted by @mahler3! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/06/12/re-recording-john-williams-podcast-special/ New article written by @Maurizio! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/06/12/john-williams-rerecordings-essay/ Thank you for noticing! I hope people here will appreciate both the episode and the essay. Tim and I tried to be comprehensive and thorough. It's a really fun to look back at many of those re-recordings and looking at JW's repertoire thru this lens. BB-8, Sylvan, ricsim88 and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted June 13 Popular Post Share Posted June 13 🔴 MASSIVE NEW FEATURE! RE-RECORDING JOHN WILLIAMS: A 50-YEAR SURVEY OF RE-RECORDINGS OF THE MAESTRO'S MUSIC The Legacy of John Williams returns with a massive new audio and written feature! Join Head Contributor Tim Burden in a fascinating journey showcasing highlights and curiosities from 50 years of re-recordings of John Williams’ music—from the superb readings by Charles Gerhardt and Zubin Mehta to the recent vibrant recordings by Gustavo Dudamel, including some fun and unexpected oddities in-between. To complement the podcast special, read the in-depth essay by Editor Maurizio Caschetto chronicling the history of John Williams' re-recordings made by other conductors and musicians from 1977 until today: the earliest re-recordings of music from Star Wars by Charles Gerhardt, the bristling albums by Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops, the more recent recordings by Gustavo Dudamel, Keith Lockhart, Leonard Slatkin and much more! 🎧 LISTEN TO THE EPISODE 👉 https://tinyurl.com/erykunve 📖 READ THE ESSAY 👉 https://tinyurl.com/mr4b5ud8 https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid02zKpmrFXgqdxkih5LQkTaTPjUFWVryjwVEeW94giJWH778AnXpDHpr6k8w6W1N7Aml Bryant Burnette, Alan and Maurizio 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,294 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Just hit play, who's providing the introduction? The voice is not familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mahler3 509 Posted June 13 Popular Post Share Posted June 13 16 minutes ago, Dr. Rick said: Just hit play, who's providing the introduction? The voice is not familiar. The great Jon Rand! A voice artist friend: https://randmade.co.uk/ Jay, BB-8, Dr. Rick and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bryant Burnette 755 Posted June 16 Popular Post Share Posted June 16 I'm looking forward to listening to this. Excellent topic! Yavar Moradi, mahler3 and Maurizio 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 755 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 And a terrific listen it was! I'd forgotten all about that John Williams Reimagined album -- definitely gonna have to get a copy, the piece from Images is fantastic. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 665 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Quote Many similar takedowns – dumbed-down versions of the music that stripped counterpoint lines or simplified the harmonic texture to make them easier to play – started to illegally circulate among orchestra librarians as there was an unprecedented demand to perform music from Star Wars in concert. Such exploitations urged Williams and 20th Century Fox to try remedy the situation by putting together an orchestral suite – prepared by the composer himself – that could be easily rented to orchestras around the world so that anyone who wished to play and record Star Wars music had the chance to get the authored version I don't know if this was an "illegal" takedown, but Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops also made a recording of Star Wars before he died. It is a bit more "pop-ified" version of the theme, with different harmonies, underlying rhythmic accompaniment, even a different key (C Major instead of B-flat). The structure is pretty simple; the main title theme to start and end the track, with Cantina Band in the middle. The CD booklet simply says "Boston, Symphony Hall, 1979" for a recording date, so it was certainly well after the Mehta and Gerhardt albums, and one would assume the official version would have been available to them. Perhaps Fiedler preferred a more Pops-orchestra-style arrangement (no arranger is credited in the booklet). They also recorded the theme from Jaws, which more closely follows the original version. Yavar Moradi and BB-8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Miguel Andrade 1,512 Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 19 hours ago, Matt S. said: I don't know if this was an "illegal" takedown, but Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops also made a recording of Star Wars before he died. It is a bit more "pop-ified" version of the theme, with different harmonies, underlying rhythmic accompaniment, even a different key (C Major instead of B-flat). The structure is pretty simple; the main title theme to start and end the track, with Cantina Band in the middle. The CD booklet simply says "Boston, Symphony Hall, 1979" for a recording date, so it was certainly well after the Mehta and Gerhardt albums, and one would assume the official version would have been available to them. Perhaps Fiedler preferred a more Pops-orchestra-style arrangement (no arranger is credited in the booklet). They also recorded the theme from Jaws, which more closely follows the original version. The Star Wars and Jaws tracks were the last thing Fiedler recorded. On their final recording session, there was still some free space and they decided to record those two arrangements. Likely those were commissioned by Fiedler to atract audiences, as he was struggling to keep up the success of past decades. Probably, at that point they didn't even have the original version on their music library. It's interesting to see that shortly after, as Williams took on the Pops directorship, he didn't have to rely on popified versions of whatever to atract audiences. I have the original LP and will check if there is any arranging credit. Matt S., Yavar Moradi, Once and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ricsim88 314 Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 13 minutes ago, Miguel Andrade said: The Star Wars and Jaws tracks were the last thing Fiedler recorded. On their final recording session, there was still some free space and they decided to record those two arrangements. Likely those were commissioned by Fiedler to atract audiences, as he was struggling to keep up the success of past decades. Probably, at that point they didn't even have the original version on their music library. It's interesting to see that shortly after, as Williams took on the Pops directorship, he didn't have to rely on popified versions of whatever to atract audiences. I have the original LP and will check if there is any arranging credit. This is the kind of information I come here for 😃 Jay, Miguel Andrade, Matt S. and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 586 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 On 24/01/2025 at 5:32 PM, enderdrag64 said: Wikipedia says Geisha's OST album released on 11/22/2005 I'd expect from that the sessions were probably around August-September but I'm not certain, the OST booklet doesn't seem to mention recording dates The only detail I have for Geisha is 'late Summer 2005', so you're probably pretty close with the August-September suggestion. Looking at the metadata of the session photos on the interview with cellist Steven Erdody here, the picture at Royce Hall was taken on August 12th 2005. A (limited) set of parts from the sessions were dated between July 18th and August 15th. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 42,358 Posted June 27 Popular Post Share Posted June 27 NEW EPISODE! JAWS 50th ANNIVERSARY REMASTERED SOUNDTRACKS WITH MIKE MATESSINO “From legendary composer John Williams, a soundtrack so incredible it was recorded twice…” To celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Steven Spielberg’s blockbuster classic JAWS, Universal Studios and Universal Music Enterprises present new remastered releases of the masterful score composed by John Williams in brand-new editions restored, remixed and remastered by GRAMMY-nominated producer Mike Matessino for digital, vinyl and CD releases. For the first time ever, both the Academy Award-winning film score and the GRAMMY-winning soundtrack album are being released for the audience at large in definitive presentations with astounding remastered sound. Mike Matessino returns on The Legacy of John Williams podcast to illustrate the details of the various releases of the Jaws 50th Anniversary, while also assessing the importance of the score in John Williams' career and further elaborating on the differences between the original film score and the soundtrack album recording. LISTEN thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2025/06/27/jaws-50th-podcast/ https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid02fhrT8JUDJiDmz2apsEXvLqYk7AHWtuhsqKbn6r2sX1BdfFjjZDDQb7g8rYeG6CBQl Yavar Moradi, Bellosh, Once and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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