The Next Matessino/Williams/Spielberg Expansion - 2018 Edition

[crumbs 9513]

Another year coming to a close, another 2 Spielberg/Williams scores checked off the list by Matessino. Since last year's poll, Saving Private Ryan was unexpectedly reissued with unreleased music for its 20th Anniversary, while Schindler's List was expanded with film cues only on Black Friday (in time for the film's 25th Anniversary 4K release). SL led last year's poll with the most votes, while SPR had the third fewest.

 

We've also learned the Indiana Jones scores have now officially reverted to Disney Records. Whether this makes future IJ expansions produced by Matessino more or less likely is unclear, but they won't come from LLL either way. Still, I'd be penciling in 2021 as the most likely year for movement there, with both Indiana Jones 5 and the 40th Anniversary of Raiders.

 

We also recently learned that Williams again vetoed a release of The Sugarland Express as the launch title for LLL's Universal Heritage Collection, but that Matessino "has an idea" about how to convince Williams to change his mind. Either way, seems this won't be happening anytime soon.

 

So it's time for an updated poll! What's next on Matessino's hit-list for Spielberg/Williams scores? With the list shrinking every year by ~2, and their last 5 collaborations likely too recent for expansion (considering new union fees, rendering them prohibitive for independent labels), could we see a surprise announcement on Black Friday or is SL the last Spielberg/Williams expansion for 2018? And, looking ahead, which score would you most like to see Matessino tackle?

 

Film	Last Official Release	Score Notes
Sugarland Express	N/A	JW vetoed release in 2017
Jaws	2015 (Matessino Intrada)	Complete
Close Encounters	2017 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
1941	2011 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
Raiders of the Lost Ark	2008 (Bouzereau, Incomplete)	Disney Records, most likely 2021
E.T.	2017 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
Temple of Doom	2008 (Bouzereau, Incomplete)	Disney Records, most likely 2021
Empire of the Sun	2014 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
The Last Crusade	2008 (Bouzereau, Incomplete)	Disney Records, most likely 2021
Always	1989 OST	Nobody cares enough to see what's unreleased
Hook	2012 (Deutsch, Incomplete)	Ultimate War tapes missing as of 2012
Jurassic Park	2016 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
Schindler's List	2018 (Matessino LLL)	Complete (source music omitted)
The Lost World	2016 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
Amistad	1997 OST	46 minutes unreleased
Saving Private Ryan	2018 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
A.I.	2015 (Matessino LLL)	Complete
Minority Report	2002 OST	Recording sessions leaked
Catch Me If You Can	2002 OST	40 mins unreleased
The Terminal	2004 OST	20 mins unreleased
War of the Worlds	2005 OST	Recording sessions leaked
Munich	2005 OST	OST mostly complete, prohibitive union fees
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull	2008 OST	Disney Records, most likely 2021
Tintin	2011 OST	Prohibitive union fees
War Horse	2011 OST	Prohibitive union fees
Lincoln	2012 OST	Prohibitive union fees
The BFG	2016 OST	Prohibitive union fees
The Post	2017 OST	Prohibitive union fees

 

Film anniversaries can be a possible indication of upcoming expansions. Future milestones:

2019: Always (30th), Sugarland Express (45th), The Terminal (15th), The Last Crusade (30th), Temple of Doom (35th)

2020: Munich (15th), War of the Worlds (15th)

2021: Hook (30th), Raiders (40th)

2022: Amistad (25th), Minority Report (20th), Catch Me If You Can (20th)

[Permanent Waves 2493]

Of the above list, I would enjoy going through expansions of:

Amistad
Minority Report
War of the Worlds

[Josh500 1527]

So your question is what is likely to be the next expansion? And not what do we hope? Mind you, these are two entirely different things.

 

My money is on Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Born on the Fourth of July, or Far and Away. 

 

Something with Tom Cruise in it, anyway! 

[Permanent Waves 2493]

Just now, Josh500 said:

So your question is what is likely to be the next expansion? And not what do we hope? Mind you, these are two entirely different things.

 

My money is on Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Born on the Fourth of July, or Far and Away. 

 

Something with Tom Cruise in it, anyway! 

Those are not Spielberg films!

[Josh500 1527]

If it has to be Spielberg movies, the first two then!

 

But I think the latter two will soon see expansions as well. Hopefully.

[Brundlefly 1888]

If they keep the speed they release SS/JW/MM expansions with, they'll be done until 2005 in 4 years.

[bollemanneke 1934]

Again... HOOK!

[Corellian2019 257]

17 hours ago, crumbs said:

Schindler's List has been announced for December in line with the film's 25th Anniversary 4K release.

 

According to MV, November 27th will be the last batch of the year, so Schindler's List will probably be one of the Black Friday titles

[Jay 20809]

I'd like to vote in the poll, but it does not specify if you're asking what which score we HOPE will be next, or which score we think WILL be next.

[Permanent Waves 2493]

19 hours ago, crumbs said:

So it's time for an updated poll! What's next on Matessino's hit-list for Spielberg/Williams scores? And, looking ahead, which score would you most like to see Matessino tackle?

Looks like it is a poll for what we think it will be.

[crumbs 9513]

Apologies for the confusion with the poll, it was admittedly too vague.

 

I've split this into two clearer polls now! What the next expansion WILL BE and which expansion you MOST WANT.

[phbart 535]

22 hours ago, crumbs said:

We've also learned the Indiana Jones scores have now officially reverted to Disney Records.

Many Bothans died to bring us this information.

[Permanent Waves 2493]

1 hour ago, phbart said:

Manny Bothans died to bring us this information.

Fixed.

[Arpy 3818]

I'm going to go with Munich, I just can't see them doing Hook anytime soon.

[Permanent Waves 2493]

Just now, Arpy said:

I'm going to go with Munich

With 2 extra tracks!

 

[Arpy 3818]

I don't even want Munich. 

[Permanent Waves 2493]

15 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I just can't see them doing Hook anytime soon.

There are more years between now and the original Hook release than there was between the two LLL Home Alone releases.

[Arpy 3818]

Yes, but wasn't there the last LLL (non-Matessino) release? Disney et al. are going to look at that and go 'Well, they already had a chance to get Hook' and go for some other title.

[Permanent Waves 2493]

4 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Yes, but wasn't there the last LLL (non-Matessino) release?

Huh? I don't follow.
 

4 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Disney et al. are going to look at that and go 'Well, they already had a chance to get Hook' and go for some other title.

What does Disney have to do with this?

 

[crumbs 9513]

There's no point doing Hook until the missing session tapes are recovered. Sure, MM could fix all the other issues with LLL's first expansion, but if they have to resort to film stems again is it worth the trouble?

 

Wouldn't be so bad if it was just a few obscure cues here and there, but Ultimate War is the centrepiece of the score. 

[Holko 5879]

35 minutes ago, crumbs said:

There's no point doing Hook until the missing session tapes are recovered.

 

How do you know they haven't been?  

[Nick Parker 2990]

40 minutes ago, Holko said:

 

How do you know they haven't been?  

 

Because it's not the film's 30th anniversary yet. 

 

I wasn't really around for the La La Land expansion, and I almost completely ignored it...what was the problem with it?

[Holko 5879]

Something about using the film stems with their microedits because no better sources were available - not sure, I've not much interest in this score.

[Kasey Kockroach 2150]

Haven't seen the film, so I couldn't care less. OST's perfect...once you remove I Don't Wanna Grow Up, anyway.

[crumbs 9513]

Film stems needed to be used for the centrepiece cues of the score, tracks out of chronological order, combined cue tracks from the OST assembly were retained, cues playing at the incorrect speed, missing cues/inserts all over the place, film cues relegated to the bonus track section for no reason...

 

The release was riddled with Williams' trademark meddling, sadly. At least it was spared from lots of microedits! 😂

[JTWfan77 854]

6 hours ago, Arpy said:

I don't even want Munich. 

 

I haven't even listened to the OST of Munich.

[Josh500 1527]

6 hours ago, Falafel said:

With 2 extra tracks!

 

 

Hey that's 2 minutes of extra music! 😂 

10 hours ago, crumbs said:

Apologies for the confusion with the poll, it was admittedly too vague.

 

Rookie mistake. When you created this thread and poll, you only had one job! One job! 

 

[Richard Penna 1432]

I have but I don't remember it much.

 

Between the cliched wailing solo at the start, to the dull underscore, I'd consider it mainly a score for JW completists.

[Josh500 1527]

1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

I have but I don't remember it much.

 

Between the cliched wailing solo at the start, to the dull underscore, I'd consider it mainly a score for JW completists.

 

At one point or another, that's what people said about Saving Private Ryan, Nixon, The Lost World, War of the Worlds, Minority Report, etc.

 

 

[crumbs 9513]

There's barely any unreleased music in Munich... but I guess the unexpected SPR expansion has shifted the goalposts in that respect.

[Josh500 1527]

So how much music we're talking about here? It can't be less than two minutes!

 

Anyway, I love the score of Munich, but it's certainly not a priority when it comes to expansions.

 

 

[crumbs 9513]

It's more than SPR but not much. There's 17 minutes of unused space on the OST, that would easily be enough.

[Brundlefly 1888]

Bearing the Burden has one alternate. That's already 5 minutes of unreleased music.

[crumbs 9513]

12 minutes to go.

 

I did a spreadsheet a year ago comparing the film score to the OST. There was very little missing. A few film cues seemed to have inserts or alternate sections but nothing noteworthy.

 

A few tracks are micro-edited though, so it might not be as straightforward as OST + bonus tracks, ala SPR.

[Jay 20809]

5 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

I wasn't really around for the La La Land expansion, and I almost completely ignored it...what was the problem with it?

 

It's incomplete, it's not in chronological order (with some cues from the score appearing in the bonus track section for some reason), OST edits were retained, and due to missing elements the second half of the Ultimate War (and a few other bits of music) were taken from the final film's music stem, complete with edits made for the film, volume dips, and different sound quality than the rest of the set.

[Arpy 3818]

I guess the good thing missing out on the LLL Hook release is that I don't have to buy it again for the 2020 re-release!

[Jay 20809]

Well, apart from all the problems mentioned, it SOUNDS great (the parts taken from proper elements I mean) - the elements they found were certainly kept in great condition!

[Arpy 3818]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, apart from all the problems mentioned, it SOUNDS great (the parts taken from proper elements I mean) - the elements they found were certainly kept in great condition!

Oh, yes, I've had it digitally for years and it does sound good. I've been debating picking up a set, but the prices are high and there's the slight possibility of a re-release so I'm in limbo now...

[crumbs 9513]

Not to mention they discovered 11 deleted scenes for the upcoming 4K Bluray, so someone's been digging into Sony's archives. Looks like the new release also has a Dolby Atmos track. Wonder if they did a full rebuild of the sound mix (using new scans of the score) or just used some "enhancement algorithms" on the existing 5.1 mix? Would suck if it's the latter.

 

I'm still staggered there were no second generation masters of the scoring sessions for LLL to use instead of the film stems. That seems highly unusual to me; wouldn't most Williams scores have multi-track masters, stereo masters, dubbing masters, etc?

[Jay 20809]

Don't say things like "for LLL to use".  What was and wasn't used was entirely up to the producer of the set, Didier Deutsch, not the label it was released on.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10242]

LLL can only released what was signed off on. As simple as that.

[crumbs 9513]

Just now, Jay said:

Don't say things like "for LLL to use".  What was and wasn't used was entirely up to the producer of the set, Didier Deutsch, not the label it was released on.

 

I take your point. Guess I just lazily use it as a collective noun, like I reference Concord when discussing my issues with the Indy set (when Bouzereau produced them) or Sony for the lack of Star Wars expansions after TPM (when it was probably Lucasfilm showing no interest in releasing them).

 

I'm sure in both instances there were things outside the producer's control. Bouzereau apparently fought hard just to get a 4th CD on that Indy set and I'm sure Deutsch only resorted to using the film stems as a last resort.

[Jay 20809]

Yea, a different producer might have not wanted anything form the film's stem and just released an even shorter double-album.

 

Of course, a producer like MM would insist the release date would be pushed back until all proper elements could be located.

[bollemanneke 1934]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, apart from all the problems mentioned, it SOUNDS great (the parts taken from proper elements I mean) - the elements they found were certainly kept in great condition!

I beg to differ. I hear no difference whatsoever between OST and LLL tracks. Regardless of the Ultimate War problems, the whole thing sounds WAY too loud compared to the rest of the set, while things that should be loud, like the amazing When You're Alone statement in Remembering Childhood sound way too quiet. I'd never ever recommend this set to anyone, sorry. It's amazing how one can spend 3 years on a project and then deliver such a result...

[Jay 20809]

What makes you think Didier spent three years on that project?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10242]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea, a different producer might have not wanted anything form the film's stem and just released an even shorter double-album.

 

Of course, a producer like MM would insist the release date would be pushed back until all proper elements could be located.

 

A producer can't win in this anyway. If they had omitted the music they used the stems for, people would have complained about that. "Why didnt they just use the film stems?"

[Jay 20809]

Without a proper hunt for all the proper elements, any release would be criticized.

[Romão 1627]

Probably a question that has been answered several times before, but what scores composed JW can we consider to have had pretty much definitive releases, with no significant room for improvement?

[Jay 20809]

The wording of your question is already a bit too vague - EVERY release CAN be improved.  I think you have to define precisely what you mean by "significant" improvement?

 

Of the top of my head, I'd say all the Williams expansions are pretty much as definitive as they are ever going to get, with the exception of the Star Wars, the Indiana Jones, and Hook.  The other ones are only missing mere seconds of unreleased music if any at all, and sound as good as the elements will let them.

 

(and by all expansions, I mean the latest version, IE the Decca Jaws was not ideal in any way but the Intrada Jaws is great; ditto for the earlier CE3K and ET compared to the LLL versions).

[crumbs 9513]

11 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

A producer can't win in this anyway. If they had omitted the music they used the stems for, people would have complained about that. "Why didnt they just use the film stems?"

 

Well, a good example of that would be Outbreak of Cholera from Alien 3. MM co-produced that set and they decided to omit that cue as the best available source was the film stems. That was the correct decision IMO.

 

The cue is already available in the Bluray iso anyway, for anyone that wants it badly enough. Having a single cue sourced from inferior elements (when the new digital masters sounded so brilliant for the rest) would've been distracting indeed.