Hans Zimmer and Harold Faltermeyer‘s TOP GUN: MAVERICK (2022)

[Smeltington 1,437]

Now we're talking about the usual Zimmer setup again, but this movie is a really weird one, where composers from across the decades are being crammed into one movie together. Although with Zimmer having been part of the Buggles, maybe they are contemporaries in a sense. Will we get a true collaboration between the two? Will they divide and conquer? Will Faltermeyer provide some material for Zimmer and his friends to sample, and work into their usual methodology?

 

In this case I would rather it was just Faltermeyer. The idea of Faltermeyer filtered through Zimmer seems like it will dilute his contributions. And I'd be curious to hear what the hell Faltermeyer would do now that it's not the 80s anymore.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

22 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

...with Zimmer having been part of the Buggles...

Zimmer was never  a part of Buggles (no definite article)!

Buggles was always Geoff Downes and Trevor Horn.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

5 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Blame it on the marketing

 

If a soundtrack CD said 'Score produced by Composer A', and the back cover contained the names of 5 composers, I don't think this would be such an issue with us.

 

But it says 'Music composed by Composer A'. In cases of ghostwriting/co-composing where at least one other person has composed, that's simply untrue.

 

And because our bunch puts so much emphasis on seeing our beloved composers' names on the cover, we're naturally going to assume things based on what we read.

 

'Music by ...' is more vague, but still carries an implication of an individual. 

 

Whereas a 'Directed by' credit is not making a statement about having done every last job on the film, and of course film credits list everyone who worked on the film. I don't think the two can be entirely compared.

The booklets, for the most part, list the credits for the other composers and musicians so… been saying this for 15 years.

 

You flip open Black Hawk Down and it literally says “BHD Band” and then lists all the composers that worked on the film. Most albums are like this. 

 

People just love to hate Zimmer.

[Smeltington 1,437]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Zimmer was never  a part of Buggles (no definite article)!

 

 

I mean, maybe a small part  

[mrbellamy 6,277]

6 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Blame it on the marketing

 

If a soundtrack CD said 'Score produced by Composer A', and the back cover contained the names of 5 composers, I don't think this would be such an issue with us.

 

But it says 'Music composed by Composer A'. In cases of ghostwriting/co-composing where at least one other person has composed, that's simply untrue.

 

And because our bunch puts so much emphasis on seeing our beloved composers' names on the cover, we're naturally going to assume things based on what we read.

 

'Music by ...' is more vague, but still carries an implication of an individual. 

 

Whereas a 'Directed by' credit is not making a statement about having done every last job on the film, and of course film credits list everyone who worked on the film. I don't think the two can be entirely compared.

 

We all can understand and appreciate that John Williams doesn't play every instrument or engineer the recording. It'd be something else if we knew Herb Spencer improvised the Asteroid Field fanfare melody and other flourishes during a jam session. I mean, on one hand, that's actually a pretty cool story but it's not strange at all if that alters our perception of that cue, John Williams, and Herb Spencer. 

 

Then imagine we had dozens of stories about classic cues, themes, scores that were created by The John Williams Combo, a revolving door of friends and collaborators. We wouldn't necessarily think he wasn't still a hell of a musician but even if you put aside the conspiratorial nature of this exercise and that we would bluntly question his character for not mentioning any of this, the entire nature of his role in film music history still fundamentally changes thinking about a world with John Williams as bandleader and his bandmates who spun out some of the greatest music of all-time in these sessions.  "Yeah but it's still the same music." It's not, really! The whole context changes! Context matters!

 

Now, I think it would be a mistake to think that it would be a lesser world if this forum were devoted to the musical brilliance of The John Williams Combo instead of just one man, but that's assuming that we all knew about the Combo's legendary process from the beginning and all scores and OSTs were properly credited, etc...

[Richard Penna 3,683]

You make a really good point, and if we take an extreme hypothetical example where one says they're a fan of John Williams based on hearing and loving one particular cue, and then it turns out that actually JW was rushed that day and asked his orchestrator to do all the work... is that person a fan of John Williams?

 

You have the recent revelations about Horner's orchestrators potentially writing entire sections of Troy because... well they probably had to due to the insane time crunch.

 

i actually deliberately didn't mention Zimmer in that post, as I wanted to see whether the Defenders of Zimmer would come out because they perceived me to be attacking him.... whereas actually I was referring to any of a great number of composers who use additional/ghost composers.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

When I read the credit "Music Composed By John Williams", I can be satisfied that all the music that I hear has been composed by John Williams. In this day-and-age of throwaway, lazy writing, and ghost composers, that, to these ears, at least, means a lot.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

I found this rather funny, re Desplat and this conversation in general:

 

https://youtu.be/tAPVqHIvQVk?t=3015

[Bayesian 1,359]

57 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I found this rather funny, re Desplat and this conversation in general:

 

https://youtu.be/tAPVqHIvQVk?t=3015

Let this forever silence the doubters on this forum that Desplat doesn’t do all the work himself!

 

I kept watching after the Desplat bit and it’s a neat interview. Another peek behind the curtain and a reminder how much film music production has evolved since JW’s heyday. 

[Smeltington 1,437]

Gregson-Williams does a good job explaining the difficulties of chasing an ever-changing cut. And his methods sound very post-diluvian.

[Jay 37,340]

https://variety.com/2022/music/news/lady-gaga-top-gun-maverick-hold-my-hand-oscars-original-song-1235240724/

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/05/02/lady-gagas-original-song-hold-my-hand-from-top-gun-maverick-released/

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

CD!😄

[Jay 37,340]

What is this vertical format the OST album has?

 

 

 

Source: https://www.facebook.com/OneRepublic/posts/554879509331499

 

There's a normal-sized cover on iTunes as well

 

 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/top-gun-maverick-music-from-the-motion-picture/1621817793

 

Though the official soundtrack page has a slightly different cover:

 

 

Source: https://topgunmaverick.lnk.to/Soundtrackpreorder

 

 

And Target has an exclusive different cover too:

 

 

Source: https://www.target.com/p/various-artists-top-gun-maverick-soundtrack-target-exclusive-cd/-/A-86415827

[Alex 2,835]

On 14/4/2022 at 8:19 AM, Richard Penna said:

I found this rather funny, re Desplat and this conversation in general:

 

https://youtu.be/tAPVqHIvQVk?t=3015

Is he just kidding around or is there some bad blood there?

[Thor 7,491]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

What is this vertical format the OST album has?

 

Maybe they're ressurecting those longbox CD thingies that used to be a thing in the 80s. Never saw one myself, but I think they were fairly common in the US, at least. Probably not. Maybe a book attached? We'll find out in due time.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Let the rage begin

 

[Jay 37,340]

I don't understand what you're sharing that isn't already posted above

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The cover art was corrected to give Lorne Balfe top composing credit. 

[Mr. Who 919]

The scoring situation for this one seems to be really messy, with the score being worked on for 2-3 years and finally Balfe and Gaga being added to the mix. And the 30 min score album on top of that. It's a real head-scratcher.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

I assume the score will be great but it's Kinda dissapointing that they need 4 composers regardless of how much Gaga and Faltermeyer did. 

[Mr. Who 919]

3 minutes ago, Gibster said:

I assume the score will be great but it's Kinda dissapointing that they need 4 composers regardless of how much Gaga and Faltermeyer did. 

The original intended score is clearly not what we are getting in the movie and on the soundtrack release.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

The original intended score is clearly not what we are getting in the movie and on the soundtrack release.

Makes no sense though, In early 2020 Chris Mcq was raving about it on instagram and posted a pic with Zimmer at his studio

[Mr. Who 919]

9 minutes ago, Gibster said:

Makes no sense though, In early 2020 Chris Mcq was raving about it on instagram and posted a pic with Zimmer at his studio

Indeed but the score changed a lot after that so someone clearly wasn't happy with it or the movie changed and it didn't fit anymore. On the other hand it might just have been tweaked and changed a bit, with the incorporation of the Lady Gaga song so we don't know really.

 

Originally Zimmer was asked to score it and then he invited Harold to collaborate, even though he is retired and Lady Gaga and Balfe were not involved originally.

[thestat 348]

Clearly, the Balfe takeover means that whatever Faltermeyer did here is gone. It's going to be a lot of post-post-modern riffs on the HF theme and nothing......else.

 

Surprised that HZ is giving up so easily. The Gaga thing is not really an issue here - it sounds like HZ and HF composed a score years ago and that got repackaged into a Balfe 'product'.

[Mr. Who 919]

Balfe works with McQuarrie and Cruise on Mission Impossible so maybe that might be a reason.

[thestat 348]

Quite right and perhaps that is the problem. I am not sure I want a generic trailer-guy music score when I can listen to a Faltermeyer.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Balfe isn't being given "top billing" on that cover, the names are in alphabetical order, treating "Gaga" as her surname lol.

[Mr. Who 919]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Balfe isn't being given "top billing" on that cover, the names are in alphabetical order, treating "Gaga" as her surname lol.

That's true. Wonder if they're going with that order in the end credits of the movie as well.

[Jaaaackified 81]

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

The cover art was corrected to give Lorne Balfe top composing credit. 

 

7 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

That's true. Wonder if they're going with that order in the end credits of the movie as well.

 

I believe it's pure alphabetical order. 

 

It's the same order in the back cover from the OneRepublic post. Balfe being in the first place is simply because B goes before F, G and Z. 

 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

I assume the music in the beginning is in the film. Sounds great

[Edmilson 7,428]

Doesn't matter who gets credited on this movie, we all know the music in the movie was written by an army of ghostwriters, arrangers, etc.

[HunterTech 989]

Yeah, but it is amusing to see Zimmer essentially getting Balfed himself, as Lorne certainly wasn't on the film originally (and allegedly did most of what you'll hear in the final film).

[greenturnedblue 372]

2 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Yeah, but it is amusing to see Zimmer essentially getting Balfed himself, as Lorne certainly wasn't on the film originally (and allegedly did most of what you'll hear in the final film).

RCP goes full circle

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

Just now, greenturnedblue said:

RCP goes full circle

[Thor 7,491]

While I still have high hopes for the score, I'm not sure why they couldn't just have let Faltermeyer do this solo. It's not like he doesn't have the experience, or that he's too old or anything. First it was Faltermeyer, then it was Faltermeyer and son, then Zimmer was attached. Still fine. But then came Lady Gaga and Balfe on top. Hopefully it won't be "too many cooks in the kitchen".

[Mr. Who 919]

15 minutes ago, Thor said:

While I still have high hopes for the score, I'm not sure why they couldn't just have let Faltermeyer do this solo. It's not like he doesn't have the experience, or that he's too old or anything. First it was Faltermeyer, then it was Faltermeyer and son, then Zimmer was attached. Still fine. But then came Lady Gaga and Balfe on top. Hopefully it won't be "too many cooks in the kitchen".

This is not correct. Zimmer was first attached and out of respect to Faltermyer, Zimmer asked Faltermeyer if he wanted to come out of retirement to collaborate on the score.

[Thor 7,491]

Okay, but still. I see no reason why Faltermeyer couldn't have done it alone, had the producers had the guts to ask the composer of the original film.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

12 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

The scoring situation for this one seems to be really messy, with the score being worked on for 2-3 years and finally Balfe and Gaga being added to the mix. And the 30 min score album on top of that. It's a real head-scratcher.

 

I don't actually think it's a headscratcher, rather just an indicator of Zimmer's mindset and methodology. We know he does concept albums to the extreme, and I also get the impression that if the scoring process has in some way gone less than smoothly, he doesn't want his music out there. See Pirates 4 for the reuse fee excuse that's so hilariously obviously bullshit given the seller he is.

 

Or, the other possibility that there's not much music in the film.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

9 hours ago, HunterTech said:

(and allegedly did most of what you'll hear in the final film).

 

Alleged by whom?  I do think what's most likely is that Zimmer with Faltermeyer created suite(s) and then Lady Gaga wrote the song and it was Balfe who was responsible for taking all that material and adapting it to actual underscore.  But I'm just speculating.

 

Regardless of how many ghostwriters work on this I'm still hoping for a fun throwback score.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

That'd be interesting as Balfe was clearly happy to have most of the Fallout score released so if he ended up writing/arranging most of it, I wonder where the short score presentation comes from in this case.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

That'd be interesting as Balfe was clearly happy to have most of the Fallout score released so if he ended up writing/arranging most of it, I wonder where the short score presentation comes from in this case.

 

Again, it's a throwback to the 80s style when these action movies got soundtracks that were meant to play like pop albums.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

And that's why we need expansions now for those scores

 

If they want to do that they should do a separate release just with score.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I agree.  And of course that was fairly common too back in the day, movies getting two soundtrack releases, so it could still be like a throwback!

[Richard Penna 3,683]

Indeed, particularly if about a billion copies of the 'soundtrack' are pressed and found absolutely everywhere, and the score release almost immediately gets relegated to the 'used' market and starts confusing Ebayers  

 

(I have a copy of the Wild Wild West songtrack for precisely that reason... thankfully I paid about 50p for it)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

(I have a copy of the Wild Wild West songtrack for precisely that reason... thankfully I paid about 50p for it)

 

It's funny because the example that immediately sprang to my mind when reading the first part of your post was Men in Black, the other late 90s Will Smith action comedy to get a songtrack and a soundtrack

[dyemery 4]

On 5/5/2022 at 3:15 AM, Mr. Who said:

This is not correct. Zimmer was first attached and out of respect to Faltermyer, Zimmer asked Faltermeyer if he wanted to come out of retirement to collaborate on the score.

Do you have a link to an article or video interview to confirm this? I'd be curious to know if it's true.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

HanZ just wanted someone else to actually do the work.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

He's been doing that, for the last twenty years.

[greenturnedblue 372]

The rest of RCP was busy so he called poor old retired Harold