Star Wars: Andor (2022) - released episode spoilers allowed

[crocodile 8,012]

I think this show got really good, probably even best SW we've seen since Disney takeover. The Mandalorian has a catchier concept but this is definitely executed way better. 

 

I can't recall any music at all though. Not trying to be mean or anything, I genuinely can't.

 

Karol

[GerateWohl 4,368]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

I think this show got really good, probably even best SW we've seen since Disney takeover. The Mandalorian has a catchier concept but this is definitely executed way better. 

 

I can't recall any music at all though. Not trying to be mean or anything, I genuinely can't.

 

Karol

At least I think, apart from the music, this show comes closest to what most SW fans were hoping for from a live action SW TV show. Of course it has some flaws, the music, the little number of aliens.

 

But most of all I enjoy the absence of permanent references, quotes, repetitions and easter eggs.

 

[Tallguy 3,386]

This show is getting really good at keeping lots of plates spinning and then reminding you that they are there. And then maybe throwing on a new one or two.

 

And even if it isn't a Williams orchestral score this music is killing it. I feel like I spent the whole hour last night holding my breath.

 

Did we know that Serkis was going to be in this?

[Positivatee 327]

The show started out slow, with a very limited scope. It's gotten good as the stakes increased, and I'm genuinely interested to see how our hero will escape the worst factory conditions seen since Squid Games. 

[greenturnedblue 372]

Never would have expected Andor to be the show where we finally get Snoke's backstory

[Bespin 8,481]

Snoke?

I would not be surprised, those spinoffs really can't live without mentionning well-known character here and there. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, Bespin said:

Snoke?

Oh that's sooo lame, those spinoffs really can't live without mentionning well-known character here and there. 

 

He's joking.  Andy Serkis is playing a character with no relation to Snoke in Andor.

 

Unless you're also joking which..... carry on.

[Bespin 8,481]

DON'T QUOTE ME!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Bespin said:

DON'T QUOTE ME!

 

[GerateWohl 4,368]

Saw this week's episode today. Now, what is the explanation why there are no aliens in this prison?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

11 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Saw this week's episode today. Now, what is the explanation why there are no aliens in this prison?

Maybe the Empire segregates.

[Tallguy 3,386]

There was just a thing I saw of George Lucas trying to explain that the only racism in Star Wars it towards robots. The comments section disagreed. With citations.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

26 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Saw this week's episode today. Now, what is the explanation why there are no aliens in this prison?

 

Well at the beginning the prisoners were being sent on different transports. Maybe aliens go to their own separate prison? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DarthDementous 1,059]

12 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

At least I think, apart from the music, this show comes closest to what most SW fans were hoping for from a live action SW TV show. Of course it has some flaws, the music, the little number of aliens.

 

But most of all I enjoy the absence of permanent references, quotes, repetitions and easter eggs.

 

You nailed it. This is the only thing that has managed to capture the feeling of the EU put on the silver screen

 

With your second paragraph, I think what I find remarkable is that like the old EU it is very well interconnected with the wider universe and references quite a few other works, but not for the sake of being ‘remember this?’ because a lot of the references are ridiculously obscure, but instead for the sake of enriching the setting and not re-inventing or ignoring things that are already there

 

Case and point, Colonel Yularen of the ISB. He’s brought in as the highest echelon of the organisation that’s there to spearhead a systemic retaliation against Rebel activity. This is a character fleshed out in The Clone Wars so seeing him like this is a big deal, and he also carries the gravitas of being in the Tarkin meeting room in ANH. By using him here instead of inventing a new head of ISB character, you’re able to strengthen the scenario with those connections.

 

What is even more impressive, and just goes to show how much attention to detail for canon the show has, is that they fixed the mistake Filoni and George made which was to make Yularen a Navy Admiral when he was established in the canon before TCW to be ISB. In many ways this show is a return to an older version of the canon, and that’s just one example

[Edmilson 7,448]

3 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Saw this week's episode today. Now, what is the explanation why there are no aliens in this prison?

This show is gritty, adult and very, very dark and disturbing. Aliens only appear in stuff for kids, so they have no place for them here. They're not dark and gritty enough!

[Faleel 5,348]

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Aliens only appear in stuff for kids,

 

[Tallguy 3,386]

41 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

Case and point, Colonel Yularen

 

I know they say that it's him, but at this point I don't believe it. They both have white hair and a mustache and have the white uniform. But they don't act or talk the same. It's not the same kind of mustache. The hair doesn't look the same either. I don't think they have said his name on screen, have they?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I know they say that it's him, but at this point I don't believe it. They both have white hair and a mustache and have the white uniform. But they don't act or talk the same. It's not the same kind of mustache. The hair doesn't look the same either. I don't think they have said his name on screen, have they?

 

The subtitles identified him as Yularen

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

And Wikipedia. And IMDB. And StarWars.com.

[GerateWohl 4,368]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

This show is gritty, adult and very, very dark and disturbing. Aliens only appear in stuff for kids, so they have no place for them here. They're not dark and gritty enough!

I believe you are right. This comes closest to the truth. I don't think, that Gilroy cares much about empire racism, prisinor segregation etc. By the way, even before the segregation of the prisoners there were only humans. 

Gilroy said more than once that he is not interested in Star Wars, but he is interested in stories. So, he doesn't care for alien cultures.

So, I imagine, at the set the puppeteers permanently ask Gilroy:

"Do you mind if we put one or two aliens into this scene?"

"Leave me alone with your kindergarden stuff. I have a story to tell."

"But it is Star Wars. There must be aliens."

"Ok. But just one. And don't get in my way."

"Thank you. We will place it right in that dark corner. You will hardly see it."

"I hope so. Now let me do my work and do yours, if you must."

 

At least that's how the show looks like.

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Wasnt armand isard head of the ISB at this point? Or was he after yularen?

 

anyway, i always assumed yularen was a grand admiral due to his white clothes….

[DarthDementous 1,059]

3 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I believe you are right. This comes closest to the truth. I don't think, that Gilroy cares much about empire racism, prisinor segregation etc. By the way, even before the segregation of the prisoners there were only humans. 

Gilroy said more than once that he is not interested in Star Wars, but he is interested in stories. So, he doesn't care for alien cultures.

So, I imagine, at the set the puppeteers permanently ask Gilroy:

"Do you mind if we put one or two aliens into this scene?"

"Leave me alone with your kindergarden stuff. I have a story to tell."

"But it is Star Wars. There must be aliens."

"Ok. But just one. And don't get in my way."

"Thank you. We will place it right in that dark corner. You will hardly see it."

"I hope so. Now let me do my work and do yours, if you must."

 

At least that's how the show looks like.

 

Aliens are featured in healthy amounts as background characters in a lot of different settings, however when it comes to Andor needing to connect to or identify with characters they will make it very human-focused. Probably so the performance of the actor isn't hindered, to maintain maximum believability and emphasize the element of human suffering (feels kind of tacky to try and do fascist parallels with bug-eyed aliens amidst the oppressed, at least for the tone of this show). They're still there as flavour but any substantive stuff deliberately resorts to humans only, and I think that's fair enough

Non-background aliens in Star Wars sit in this weird spot for me where they just come across as Star Trek aliens unless they speak with a very distinct voice or speak a different language entirely

[GerateWohl 4,368]

26 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

Aliens are featured in healthy amounts as background characters in a lot of different settings, however when it comes to Andor needing to connect to or identify with characters they will make it very human-focused. Probably so the performance of the actor isn't hindered, to maintain maximum believability and emphasize the element of human suffering (feels kind of tacky to try and do fascist parallels with bug-eyed aliens amidst the oppressed, at least for the tone of this show). They're still there as flavour but any substantive stuff deliberately resorts to humans only, and I think that's fair enough

Non-background aliens in Star Wars sit in this weird spot for me where they just come across as Star Trek aliens unless they speak with a very distinct voice or speak a different language entirely

Fair enough. But for my taste the world building in Andor is suffering from this. And the human/alien ballance is one of the few things that are handled much better in The Mandalorian and even in BoBF.

[Tallguy 3,386]

8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

The subtitles identified him as Yularen

 

 

5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

And Wikipedia. And IMDB. And StarWars.com.

 

Yeah. That's the they.

 

I mean, they fellow who was the boss before Mustache showed up was a more convincing Tarkin.

 

Of course Mustache seems about as much Yularen as the guy in Obi-Wan seemed like the Grand Inquisitor, so YMMV.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

 

Yeah. That's the they.

 

I mean, they fellow who was the boss before Mustache showed up was a more convincing Tarkin.

 

Of course Mustache seems about as much Yularen as the guy in Obi-Wan seemed like the Grand Inquisitor, so YMMV.

 

How do you know the dude in ANH is Yularen now it comes to it?  They don't ever say his name on screen!

[mstrox 6,651]

The subtitles identified him as Yularen 

 

[Tallguy 3,386]

58 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

How do you know the dude in ANH is Yularen now it comes to it?  They don't ever say his name on screen!

 

Because they made the connection explicit on Rebels where they bothered to make him both act like the Yularen from Clone Wars and look like the Yularen from Star Wars.

 

To be fair, I never really bought that the character from Clone Wars was the Star Wars guy either. But they went out of their way to make the connection.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

He was called Yularen before The Clone Wars was a thing, it was more a matter of exploring his character when he was younger rather than making a new character and retconning it to be a pre-existing one like Captain Rex and Nik Sant

 

As for the actor himself, unlike the Grand Inquisitor, I like his performance so I can excuse the slightly different look. I still think the casting is close enough to be believable, in some ways he looks like an in between of ANH and Rebels:

[Andy 4,127]

This show is not just light on aliens. It’s also light on droids.  Solo had some of the best robot designs in the saga. 
 

I’ll also say the show is appealing to those who wanted grown up Star Wars, but I’m still not drinking the Kool Aid.  This is homework for me. No one is likable. It’s depressing.  And for everyone saying this is the best since Empire, ask yourself, where is the feeling of imagination that should feel like it’s far far away?   This is well-crafted by intelligent people with a mind for detail and procedure.  They’ve made a deadly serious and grim portrayal of life under tyranny.  Some of the production is impressive and I guess I can admire the resolve to stick to their guns.  But without that sense of wonder, humor, or even a little whimsy, it’s just no dang fun. 
 

But I keep watching.   
 

Spoiler

I have a hunch Andor and Melshi may escape from prison.  Just a feeling. 

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

This show is not just light on aliens. It’s also light on droids.  Solo had some of the best robot designs in the saga. 

I'm not seeing any particular lack of droids as background characters. Not to mention we've had B2EMO and Imperial Security droids play direct roles in the show

"Where is the feeling of imagination that should feel like it's far far away?"

I was particularly inspired by the Eye of Aldhani, the Star Destroyer arriving in atmosphere, and the giant water floatilla prisons. People keep pretending that this is an ultra serious grounded piece of science-fiction where I see it more as the world of Star Wars played straight. There's some truly ridiculous cheesy things like view-screens that display absolutely nothing of detail beyond primitive vector graphics and yet characters treat it like it's giving them all the information they need, you've got very silly space terms like 'Peezos and Revnog' that the actors have to deliver with a straight face because this is the world they live in. With that respect, it's ironically the most reverent piece of Star Wars material because instead of changing, shying away, or lamp shading the sillier concepts it's instead treating it like it's matter of fact in the universe, and that overall contributes to a very immersive and cohesive world

[Andy 4,127]

That part of it, the adherence to the John Barry and Roger Christian production design of specifically the first Star Wars film, I admire.  I actually wish they'd have taken the tone father... no musical score at all.  More THX-1138 texture.  I'd Walter Murch the hell out of the sound design, with flanging on the audio transmissions and such.  Why the hell not?

 

I can't remember what the Eye of Aldhani is.

 

I'm having a hard time articulating what imagination feels like when it shows up on screen, but it's hard to picture people like Phil Tippet, Ralph McQuarrie, Joe Johnston, Doug Chiang, and Dennis Muren coming together and this being the product.  

 

It's okay; I don't hate it.  I really appreciate the effort to do something different, and I like a good political allegory.  The best storyline in this isn't Andor, it's the young Corporate Authority guy.  Again, not any fun, but his story is at least compelling to watch as a cautionary tale.

[Tallguy 3,386]

10 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

the world of Star Wars played straight.

 

This!

 

My favorite thing so far is that Corruscant feels real. And it's overwhelming.

 

OTOH, I swear, if I hear a mouse droid make the same damn sound one more time!

[DarthDementous 1,059]

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

This!

 

My favorite thing so far is that Corruscant feels real. And it's overwhelming.

 

OTOH, I swear, if I hear a mouse droid make the same damn sound one more time!

I was wondering about the attention being drawn to the mouse droid, I think instead of a ‘remember this’ it’s to show that this place is constantly monitored by Imperials, since their purpose is to be little surveillance droids. I’m used to seeing them as cute but here they seem quite sinister and are almost foreshadowing for the ISB coming down hard on poor Karn

[Faleel 5,348]

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

OTOH, I swear, if I hear a mouse droid make the same damn sound one more time!

Which one? The melodic one or the scream?

[Dr. Rick 1,157]

The mouse droid is perfect IMO because it represents how low on the totem pole he is now.  Doing menial grunt work in a maze of Imperial cubicles 😆 

[Tallguy 3,386]

2 hours ago, Roll the Bones said:

Which one? The melodic one or the scream?

 

The beep beep beepbeep. beep beep BEEPbeep.

 

It gets played nearly every time you see one of the damn things. In lots of different media.

 

Make them do something different! Otherwise:

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Rick said:

The mouse droid is perfect IMO because it represents how low on the totem pole he is now.  Doing menial grunt work in a maze of Imperial cubicles 😆 

 

Yes!

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

I can't help but wonder if the imprisonment arc would have made more sense before the heist. Start with him being falsely accused and picked up on the beach and show how that leads to him having rebel sympathies. Also would avoid the problem of having the climax in the middle of the season. And the fact that every imperial officer has access to a hologram of Cassian but for some reason they don't check their new arrestees against the wanted list.

[Positivatee 327]

He did not participate in the heist because of his Rebel sympathies. He hates the Empire, but until recently, he has only taken on jobs for the money, not because he was answering a higher calling. He said he was able to infiltrate Imperial compounds because they let him walk right in. The Empire's hubris did not allow them to consider there was organized rebellion, so random individuals were considered low threat. 

 

It's the Luthen character pulling the strings behind the scenes that sets this into motion. As a customer and distributor of stolen Imperial tech, he is laying the groundwork for a Rebel supply network. True, Andor had little choice when he was recruited because the Ferrix security goons had him surrounded and known by name. 

 

The sad part of the story is how strict Imperial arrests and prisoner treatment has gotten since the first Rebel attack on Aldhani occurred. Andor shares responsibility for instigating that treatment of his fellow prisoners. 

 

It is inevitable that Andor leaves prison before R1 so the question is how. I'm sure this experience has helped stoke a stronger interest in taking down the Empire. 

 

I wonder if we'll see the Ghorman Massacre really turn up the heat on the rebellion. 

 

I wonder if Andor will run into Crix Madine. 

[Datameister 2,042]

Now that I'm finally caught up on the show, I'm popping in to say I agree with a lot of the stuff being said here. This is definitely a more grown-up Star Wars. It even feels more grown-up than R1. (I don't think that's inherently good or bad, incidentally.) I'm enjoying the sharply reduced emphasis on in-jokes and references from across the obscurity spectrum; those were fun in the earlier days of Disney Star Wars, but they've grown tiresome. This show is more focused on just giving us a good story. I don't think the execution has been perfect, and it's certainly not fun in the way that something like S1 Mando is. But it offers some hard-to-describe qualities that have largely been missing from the last seven years of Star Wars saturation.

 

But yeah, the vanishingly small number of aliens does get distracting. It makes some sense in terms of tone. But it's one of the few ways this feels less like Star Wars through another lens and more like an entirely different space fantasy.

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this. The overall story structure has definitely been a little unusual.

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

On 26/10/2022 at 11:25 AM, mstrox said:

Interested to see whether we’re still following the three-episode-arc thing, because nothing seems to be moving towards a conclusion for next week. .  Feels like we’re just getting the status quo established.  

Episode seven was a bridge episode, last week was part 1 of a new arc, and then it will be a 2-part finale. I think Gilroy explained it in a recent interview.

[Jay 37,363]

All you have to do is look at the writer/director combos to learn the story arcs

 

Arc 1 - episodes 1-3 - written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Toby Haynes

Arc 2 - episodes 4-6 - written by Dan Gilroy, directed by Susanna White

Arc 3 - episode 7 - written by Stephen Schiff, directed by Benjamin Caron

Arc 4 - episodes 8-10 - written by Beau Willimon, directed by Tony Haynes

Arc 5 - episode2 11-12 - written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Benjamin Caron

[Tallguy 3,386]

All you have to do is look at the writer/director combos to learn the story arcs hang around here and people tell you things.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Fuuuuck that latest Andor episode was really good
 

Things are getting so horrific and disturbing that any kind of win from the Rebellion is going to be the best feeling ever. This world and its characters are sick and I’ve never been more on board with the Rebel cause. Poor Ulaf, but it lead to a very good character development for Kino

 

This might be my favourite portrayal of Imperials in anything ever, it’s like I’m finally getting my wish of a live action Legend of the Galactic Heroes

[crocodile 8,012]

Yeah, the these low management Imperials are somehow more frightening than cackling Palpatine.

 

Karol

[Tallguy 3,386]

So this week (to me) has the most explicit statement of the mission statement of Andor and a bit of a middle finger to Star Wars:

 

We see Bix being as graphically tortured as I would expect to see in a Star Wars show. Obviously we're really feeling it. You're not even holding out hope "Maybe she'll hold up! Maybe she'll trick them!" That isn't this show.

 

Then out of nowhere this show makes its most purposeful (only?) lift from Star Wars: The door slams as the camera follows the guards' feet. Just like when Vader tortured Leia. Remember when that was wacky fun? Oh ho ho, the bad guys are bad, but our plucky heroine's "resistance to the mind probe is considerable".

 

"Let's think that over again, shall we?" this show says.

 

Man, Serkis' last line was so perfect. In one line of dialog he drives home "Screw this. I'm not playing anymore."

 

I've got one logical quibble: Since the Empire is just re-shuffling "released" prisoners back into the population, what did they think was to keep them from just telling people "Hey, they told everyone I got out, but I didn't!" I mean, obviously frying a whole floor is what we're told is the answer. But that seems to be also self defeating. I suppose this is another example of the arrogance and indifference of the Empire that they thought they could get away with either of these things.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I really don't see how that's a middle finger to Star Wars?

[Tallguy 3,386]

10 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I really don't see how that's a middle finger to Star Wars?

 

"You didn't take this seriously. We do." It's such a conscious echo from a show that seems very proud of the fact that there are no echoes.

 

EDIT: And I didn't take it (nor do I think it was intended) as "Dude, Star Wars sucks!"

[DarthDementous 1,059]

8 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I've got one logical quibble: Since the Empire is just re-shuffling "released" prisoners back into the population, what did they think was to keep them from just telling people "Hey, they told everyone I got out, but I didn't!" I mean, obviously frying a whole floor is what we're told is the answer. But that seems to be also self defeating. I suppose this is another example of the arrogance and indifference of the Empire that they thought they could get away with either of these things.

The Empire is not aware that the prisoners communicate between floors so they didn’t expect word to travel, let alone that fast

 

As for what keeps the prisoner’s mouths shut…the fear of consequence of revealing that information and also awareness of how much it would crush people’s souls. The other prisoners still have hope to keep them going, confronting them with utter despair when you know they can’t get out is almost cruel

 

This show manages an interesting balance of effective systems of control that are also exploited due to dismissiveness of the agency of the people inside it

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The Gilroys, man.  Michael Clayton?  Nightcrawler?  Two of the best movies of the century so far for me.

 

I know this particular arc was written by the House of Cards dude, though.  Have to admit, never watched that show.

[Arpy 4,145]

This show really was a slow starter, but now it's truly great. Love every second of it. I love the sense of fear and uneasiness of the prison subplot and all the individual parts of the Rebellion slowly coming together. It's about time the Empire was given some really toothy substance other than just being generic bad guys.

 

The one aspect of this show that betrays it's Star Wars roots is the music which still remains anonymous. It certainly sets a mood, but it's incongruous with the sound of the rest of the universe and lacks any sort of thematic sensibility. 

 

This series is shaping up to be better than Mandalorian (for me).