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Star Wars: Andor (2022) - released episode spoilers allowed


Holko
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The reviews I've read have been more mixed so far.

 

THR basically said the first episodes are slow and boring, although that may work in its benefit.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/andor-diego-luna-rogue-one-origin-story-disney-plus-1235223748/

 

And I really liked this part on Forbes' review:

 

Quote

Yes, Andor is technically ‘Star Wars for adults.’ It has the promise of delivering something that justifies itself beyond the content soup demands of the streaming era. However, it’s another example of today’s adults both refusing to let go of their childhood favorites and insisting that those brands and franchises be tailored to their grown-up interests as well.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2022/09/20/review-andor-is-by-default-best-disney-plus-star-wars-show-yet/?sh=5e4b30585bc2

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After the first two episodes, I really like it.  I’m honestly not ready for it to blow up into the promised sprawling Dickensian tale that Gilroy promises.  I’m very happy to just have Space Jason Bourne (Spaceon Bourne).

 

Brittel’s music fits like a glove.  It’ll rankle all the “this is the Star Wars sound” people for sure, but for this series (which thus far feels very little like Star Wars beyond the fact that we know it exists in the same universe, which works great for me and I’d imagine would be a big plus for everyone who is tired of Star Wars spinning its wheels in the rut of the past), it works great.  Will it do the same on album?  I’d suspect not, but that’s the secondary purpose of the score.  I expect the colors of the score to broaden as the scope of the show does.

 

Very disappointed in Lucasfilm for switching back to the Star Wars logo theme from Mando/Boba, after the nice switch they did in Kenobi.

 

Looking forward to watching the third episode tonight, or earlier if I quit my job and leave my family.

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I didn't like the Obi-Wan one.  It didn't feel like a logo, it felt weird coming at the beginning, like a bit of underscore plopped out of a larger cue with no context.

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I might actually literally be the only person on this forum who likes the Goransson/Mando Star Wars logo

 

It's OK.

 

38 minutes ago, Jay said:

I still don't understand why Kennedy didn't commission a Lucasfilm logo from JW ahead of TFA's release

 

I still don't understand why they don't have a logo that I could have played to anyone in the last 45 years and have them nod and say "Ah! Star Wars!"

 

Star Trek's logo on Paramount+ would have been identified by anyone in that last 56 years as Star Trek.

 

I watched the first episode. Slow, as advertised. But there's always something going on.

 

I wonder what things are like for the people who aren't plucky thieves living on the edge? How old is Cassian supposed to be? 20's? So he's a few years older than Ezra and Luke (and Leia) right?

 

I have to say, the best scene in the first episode (and there were some good scenes) was with Rupert Vansittart's Imperial official guy. He's gloriously gray. He's not good, he's not nice, he's just right.

 

This all feels like people getting by in this somewhat broken down dictatorship. (Has there ever been any other kind?) It feels like we're finally seeing what was going on while Luke was working on the farm.

 

It also made me want to go back to Galaxy's Edge.

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56 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 How old is Cassian supposed to be? 20's? So he's a few years older than Ezra and Luke (and Leia) right?

Wookiepedia says he was born in 26 BBY (BBY 26?)

And if they stated correctly the flashbacks occur pre-Empire. (I don't know but that kid didn't look like 6 years old)

So yeah, you're right, 21 to 25, if they retcon this wookiepedia birth.

 

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

I wonder what things are like for the people who aren't plucky thieves living on the edge? 

If we go with how things turned out for the jealous boyfriend... not very good.

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19 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

The comfort of a Zack Snyder fan, 'tis a cold comfort.

 

Well, I love Man of Steel and really liked Justice League: The Snyder Cut. I hated BvS. I didn't like Watchmen. I saw 300 once. It was... Fine? Does that make me a fan?

 

Anyway... This is the first time BBY has been used on screen, right? And wasn't Disney trying to move away from that designation?

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I haven't watched the episodes yet, I'll watch 'em tonight.  If I like it, I'll pull up all the quotes of me being excited and optimistic for this show going all the way back to when it was first announced.  If I don't like it, I will surreptitiously edit those posts away :lol:

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On 20/9/2022 at 2:19 PM, Jay said:


Spot on. 
 

This show, so far, is a chore as joyless and soulless as scrubbing a dirty pot for 2 hours with cold dishwater. 

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I thought the first two episodes were quite aimless and ended as if we're meant to feel some sense of wanting to see more. 

The music is alright, it's definitely more sound design and further away from the Williams' sound than the other composers, and the production design is very retro Star Wars - keeping the same feel as Rogue One.

The CSA or whatever they are seem redundant when you have billions of Stormtroopers - and their uniforms remind me of the orange tips toy guns are painted with to signify they're toys:

 

PGM_FF_000013.jpg

76d8b79f391d8c54f9290d37ab64b57b.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Andy said:


Spot on. 
 

This show, so far, is a chore as joyless and soulless as scrubbing a dirty pot for 2 hours with cold dishwater. 

There's a paywall on the review and I don't have any money to give to Rolling Stone (and even if I had it, I'd probably spent with something more interesting and valuable than with the entertainment press). If someone can post a print, I'll be thankful.

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45 minutes ago, Andy said:

This show, so far, is a chore as joyless and soulless as scrubbing a dirty pot for 2 hours with cold dishwater. 

 

I grant you there is not a lot of joy. But it certainly doesn't feel soulless. It doesn't feel like the movie Star Wars. But it feels very much like the universe of Star Wars.

 

45 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The CSA or whatever they are seem redundant when you have billions of Stormtroopers - and their uniforms remind me of the orange tips toy guns are painted with to signify they're toys:

 

They kind of look like Star Tours uniforms.

 

(Still on episode 1.)

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I find it amusing that Gilroy felt the need to immediately tell parents this is not for their kids by kicking things off with a brothel and a disturbing (for Star Wars) murder.  Henry, you could be just let the ensuing boredom do the job instead. 
 

I guess I’m happy for fans who wanted Star Wars to grow up with them.  We not only get the word “shit!” but there’s also a bottomless woman sliding her pants on getting out of bed the morning after.  Hawt!!
 

Diego Luna might be a good actor. I can’t tell because he really isn’t given much to do but look sad and moderately desperate.  His acting range is … steady. 


I’ll keep watching, hoping for “the feels” that I associate with the universe of imagination and whimsy.  Andor makes me feel nothing but impatient.  But I would rather watch Kenobi. At least that was sorta fun to make fun of.  

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2 hours ago, Arpy said:

I thought the first two episodes were quite aimless and ended as if we're meant to feel some sense of wanting to see more. 

The music is alright, it's definitely more sound design and further away from the Williams' sound than the other composers, and the production design is very retro Star Wars - keeping the same feel as Rogue One.

The CSA or whatever they are seem redundant when you have billions of Stormtroopers - and their uniforms remind me of the orange tips toy guns are painted with to signify they're toys:

 

PGM_FF_000013.jpg

76d8b79f391d8c54f9290d37ab64b57b.jpg


The Empire has to govern an entire galaxy, it is not redundant to outsource to private companies particularly in stretches of low importance territory. The Empire has to also keep their cards close to their chest a bit until they can rule through fear via the Death Star and dissolve the Senate. The Empire's goal is complete dictatorial military police governance, but they can't look like that's their goal yet because there's still a chance of a giant uprising. You saw how much agitation just 12 CorpSec people there caused on Ferrix, imagine if they had Stormtroopers stationed there - it would be an all-out civil war

Besides, Stormtroopers these days are unfortunately a complete joke. The CorpSec people are actually competent

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It took me a bit to get into a “less fun/dower” Star Wars show. Had it not been linked to Star Wars I probably would have dug it a bit sooner. Its tough for me to reconcile the gee-wiz escapism of what I always felt Star Wars was with this grim/seedy take. (I never got into all the expanded Universe stuff btw) Its almost like their aim was “Lets attempt to do a Star Wars story with the heft of Breaking Bad or The Wire.” Yay(?) 

 

But I also have to admit, it’s kinda cool. I’ll see where it goes. 


 

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Watched the first two episodes. Didn't hate it but wasn't too engaged either. The execution is sound, probably better than that of most D+ shows so far, but I am really not that excited about the core concept. So it is an odd one. We shall see.

 

I find it really funny how blasé we are about any Marvel or SW content these days. 😆

 

Karol

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7 hours ago, WampaRat said:

It took me a bit to get into a “less fun/dower” Star Wars show. Had it not been linked to Star Wars I probably would have dug it a bit sooner. Its tough for me to reconcile the gee-wiz escapism of what I always felt Star Wars was with this grim/seedy take. (I never got into all the expanded Universe stuff btw) Its almost like their aim was “Lets attempt to do a Star Wars story with the heft of Breaking Bad or The Wire.” Yay(?) 

 

But I also have to admit, it’s kinda cool. I’ll see where it goes. 


 


I think I may be in the same boat if this show hadn't come at the perfect time where I'd just seen continuous failures attempting to capture that feel that I'm like 'finally something that isn't trying to do what all the other shows are trying to do, and that it's actually doing that different thing quite well'

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3 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

If you'd have told me when I was a kid that we'd have multiple Star Wars/Star Trek/Marvel/Lord of the Rings series running concurrently when I grew up, I'd have sworn you came from a future in which the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth had been firmly established. Instead, there's just emotions ranging from "that's OK" to passive disinterest to utter loathing. 

Same!

 

haha. I think a crucial ingredient all these reboots/requels have forgotten is scarcity. Nobody in charge wants to let these IPs breathe a bit. Heaven forbid a couple of years pass between projects before they produce something new. But it’s a pipeline now. They have to be constantly  manufacturing “content”. Remember how there were at least 3-4 years between Star Wars Films? And then like a 20 year break in between trilogies? I think one of the few IPs to hold to that sort of Strategy are the Bond films. Which is why those tend to be an event in some ways (but guaranteed not to last long!) But we live in a “Christmas every day” scenario now. Some things are special because they only come along once in a while. 

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4 hours ago, crocodile said:

Watched the first two episodes. Didn't hate it but wasn't too engaged either. The execution is sound, probably better than that of most D+ shows so far, but I am really not that excited about the core concept. So it is an odd one. We shall see.

 

I saw three in one go and i think 15 minutes into the third it gets up to speed. That there's no urgency before might be a case of 'we have to fill 8 hours but only have a story for 4', which i experienced on quite a few tv series (not only) lately.

 

The Blade Runner vibe is OK with me, as i don't care much for SW in the first place. Either Disney/Lucasfilm just re-invented brand-building, or they are just really bad at it remains to be seen. ;)

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We watched just episode 1 last night (my wife and I aren't "binge" kinda people, we watch shows an episode at a time).  I liked it!  It's solid setup for who this character is and the desperate, paranoid world he inhabits.  I liked the basic plot of "Cassian commits murder and is now trying to stage his disappearance off the grid" and I liked what we find out thus far about this mysterious "corporation" that seems to be the major power in this sector, along with the little hint of the tenuous relationship between the corporation and the Empire.

 

Looking forward to watching episode 2 tonight.

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Yeah. It definitely it feels like it. I will say this show definitely has the strongest “point of view” of any previous SW Disney Plus show. Probably not since Last Jedi has it rattled the expectations of “what Star Wars Is” etc. There’s room for nostalgia. There’s room for new takes. I like that I can pick and choose. 

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As many have said, the pace is very slow for the first three episodes, really feel a lot of it could of been condensed into an one hour or so episode. But it is a breath of fresh air for a Star Wars show to take it's time, just not maybe this much ROTFLMAO. Still not sure what the Corporate people are or their relationship with the Empire, but they actually seem competent for the most part and not cartoonishly evil. For Andor himself, he seems to be pretty much the same character as he is in Rogue One, so wondering if there's going to be more flashbacks to fill in how he got to be where he is. Overall though I did enjoy it and will stick with it.

 

On 23/09/2022 at 8:14 PM, WampaRat said:

Yeah. It definitely it feels like it. I will say this show definitely has the strongest “point of view” of any previous SW Disney Plus show. Probably not since Last Jedi has it rattled the expectations of “what Star Wars Is” etc. There’s room for nostalgia. There’s room for new takes. I like that I can pick and choose. 

A big problem is nobody can agree on "what Star Wars is" or what makes a Star Wars well Star Wars, feels like a lot recently has been nostalgia bait and the new takes being mostly incoherent for both story and action.

 

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I hear a lot of people use “world building” when defending the pacing. 
 

Makes Lucas’ efficiency at “world building” in the original film all the more astonishing. 

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15 minutes ago, Andy said:

I hear a lot of people use “world building” when defending the pacing. 
 

Makes Lucas’ efficiency at “world building” in the original film all the more astonishing.

Not sure how that effects the pacing? Lot's of drawn out shots that could easily be trimmed down or even cut altogether. Even if the main goal was world building it still feels like I don't really know anything about Ferrix or Morlana One, well Ferrix seems to be a junk planet of sorts and no idea what Morlana One is but "Corporate" is based there, but who are they and how is their own security able to act on different planets? So far in the near 2 hours of Andor I know less about these worlds than Lucas managed in nearly the same amount of time for ANH. For the characters a lot is really well established in the first episode, but the second feels like padding than any actual development, with the third being the most impactful to them.

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8 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

So far in the near 2 hours of Andor I know less about these worlds than Lucas managed in nearly the same amount of time for ANH.


Precisely.  Look at all of the exposition and universe building that was done (with likable characters!) in the first half of Star Wars. 

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Hour and a half of Andor, which is 3 episodes out of a 12 episode TV show. Can we stop comparing apples to oranges? Why in the name of Chobb would you behold Andor to the same pacing standards as a product where that's literally half the allotted run-time. Lucas managed to do it quite deftly in ANH don't get me wrong, and there's definitely some cross-over with what could be achieved in a TV show, but the comparison as presented is wholly inappropriate

Pax Morlana Corporate Security is a private organization the Empire contracts for a section of the galaxy where they currently don't have much presence there. Ferrix is inside the corporate zone of Pax Morlana, and is implied to usually be fairly hands off in terms of on-ground forces but micro-manages the hell out of the planet from a distance

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It seems the main problem here - speaking as someone who haven’t seen an episode of Andor - is that it’s not very good?

 

If it were, no one would have a problem with lack of world building, pacing, “it doesn’t feel like Star Wars” etc etc.

 

It’s not inherently good or bad just because it’s Star Wars. Any thing can be good or bad. In this case, it seems Disney hasn’t managed to deliver 100 %. Fans just want a thing they can enjoy.

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For me, it's more a case of not being fun to watch.  I really don't care what happens next.  It's well made in some aspects I guess.  I like that they're not using those claustrophobic LED virtual sets.

 

If I can be honest and bare my soul for a bit.

 

I'm getting a taste of my own medicine.  I'm finally seeing what it's like to have a Star Wars project really turn me off.  I was born in 72, so up until now,  I enjoyed most all of it.  The Sequels, Prequels, spinoffs, Clone Wars, Mandoverse.  And now I'm finally getting to see what it's like to be on the other side when it doesn't fit my criteria (mostly, that it be fun).  Andor HAS to get better than the first 3 episodes, but for the time at least I can empathize with all the disappointed people over the years who felt like someone took their toys and played with them "wrong".

 

I guess I'm happy(?) that fans finally got their dark, gritty Star Wars.  But if I want to watch Blade Runner, I have two of those movies and countless imitators.

 

 

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12 hours ago, rough cut said:

It seems the main problem here - speaking as someone who haven’t seen an episode of Andor - is that it’s not very good?

 

If it were, no one would have a problem with lack of world building, pacing, “it doesn’t feel like Star Wars” etc etc.

 

It’s not inherently good or bad just because it’s Star Wars. Any thing can be good or bad. In this case, it seems Disney hasn’t managed to deliver 100 %. Fans just want a thing they can enjoy.


There hasn't really been substantial arguments made as to why it's bad, so much of it seems to be taste-based, and that's because the show is very well put together so far. Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan are easy to shred to pieces regardless of whether you feel like they're Star Wars or not (for the record, I don't), and unlike those shows the verisimilitude of Andor's world and characters is very strong

To re-iterate though, these responses are understandable, and the show isn't trying to be for every Star Wars fan (you could even say it's somewhat aimed at some non-Star Wars fans) which is why it's actually succeeding at appealing to a, hopefully not too niche, audience

The 'it's not fun' argument is mind-numbing because I don't think you could create a less universal metric if you tried. Although generally I would wager that in order for something to be fun you'd need to be invested in the world and characters, and so that argument puts the cart before the horse because it's the incoherency of those things in the other Star Wars shows that stops it from being fun and instead makes it either confusing, frustrating, or hilarious for all the wrong reasons. In that respect Andor is quite fun to me

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It’s interesting to see the criticism/discourse of this show having a lot in common with the criticism/discourse around the Rings of Power show. (Pacing issues, world building, Is it the “spirit” of the *insert IP* or does it go too far?” Etc)

 

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As a Star Wars fan you get wet eyes, when you see how the producers of Rings of Power stick stylistically to the Jackson movies, also musically, and telling a new/old story at the same time. 

For the SW shows I wished always for something conservative stylistically and innovative in stories, world building and characters. Kenobi was the complete opposite and badly made.

Mando and BoBF were too much fan service and copy paste.

Andor is probably the best that we are going to get in that sense.

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22 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

As a Star Wars fan you get wet eyes, when you see how the producers of Rings of Power stick stylistically to the Jackson movies, also musically, and telling a new/old story at the same time. 

As a Tolkien fan you get wet eyes because of how shitty it is.

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

As a Tolkien fan you get wet eyes because of how shitty it is.

Yes. I heard about that.

 

By the way, for my taste the alien quota at the characters with talking roles is too low in Andor. Since Return of the Jedi or latest since the prequels I am expecting there a little more diversity. 

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4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

As a Star Wars fan you get wet eyes, when you see how the producers of Rings of Power stick stylistically to the Jackson movies, also musically, and telling a new/old story at the same time. 


Having watched Fellowship of the Ring and Two Towers recently, dear god no. The orchestral focused score is nice though, but it rarely resembles Shore's work. The only show I look towards and weep for Star Wars' musical identity is The Orville

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4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

By the way, for my taste the alien quota at the characters with talking roles is too low in Andor. Since Return of the Jedi or latest since the prequels I am expecting there a little more diversity. 

 

2 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

The only show I look towards and weep for Star Wars' musical identity is The Orville

 

I just finished the Orville literally the day before Andor.  The difference could not be more apparent.  With the penultimate episode of the Orville, they managed to do Star Wars better than Star Wars.  Somehow the people in charge of Wars and Trek act like it's a major chore to make fun aliens and people in colorful masks or makeup.  Meanwhile the Orville is a rainbow of aliens that populate the screen.  Some used only once, but to great effect.  Admittedly the Orville aliens are often on the comedic end of the spectrum, but not always.

 

I can tell you first hand as an OG SW fan, everyone's favorite scene was the Cantina.  "Look at that guy!"  "Oh wow, look at them!"  "Hahah check out that dude!"

 

With SW these days, if there is an alien walking around in a grey generic earth planet crowd, it's usually repurposed from the stash of Sequel costumes they saved.

 

The Orville is the little show that could.  A 90-something piece orchestra, banging out music both joyful and wondrous and exciting, with legacy fan composers.  Recorded on the 20th Century Fox sound stage.  Disney can't afford that for Star Wars?  Are they all so intimidated by Williams that they just give up?

 

Aliens aside, the only thing that's gonna save Andor for me is the character that Kenner deemed too boring to make an action figure of, and instead decided her friend General Madine was the plastic embodiment of excitement.   

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