Schindler's List - 2CD 25th Anniversary Edition from La-La Land Records (2018)

[Jay 37,281]

9 hours ago, Chewy said:

I Could Have Done More (Film Version) sounds really compressed like a bad MP3 file.

 

Hmmm, I don't remember it sounding "really" compressed, but I haven't listened too closely in a while.

 

Of course it's unfortunate this wasn't the usual top-to-bottom job where the original tapes and pulled and transferred and everything is built from that, but I don't think the element they did use sounds as terrible as some people here say it does.  Of course, we're in the territory of opinion and everyone's ears being different now; there's no disputing that it has different sound than the 1993 album master nor that if it had been pulled from the original element it would end up sounding better.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Wait, is it possible to create a truly complete score using both LLL and sessions? That other online place seemed to disagree...

 

Of course it is possible.  The same takes of the SCORE cues used in the film were either on the OST all along or now appear on disc 2.

 

If you're referring to SOURCE music, there MIGHT be some of the Williams-recorded stuff where the exact take heard in the film wasn't in the session leak (I can't recall), but as for the source music heard in the film that Williams didn't record, all those recordings tracked into the film were already on some commercial release somewhere (which would be how Spielberg heard them to begin with to know he wanted to put them in his film)

 

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Aren't those things on other releases though?

Yes.  Both recordings used in the film had already been released on other film's soundtrack CDs beforehand.

[Chewy 2,372]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hmmm, I don't remember it sounding "really" compressed, but I haven't listened too closely in a while.

Yeah it's only the first part of the track (from 0:00 to 2:20) that sounds really bad to my ears.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Perhaps JW wanted it to sound like it was recorded during the war.

[Chewy 2,372]

52 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Perhaps JW wanted it to sound like it was recorded during the war.

Another useless comment, and it's not even funny, damn!

[Holko 9,499]

What did you expect?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I definitely could have done more!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Insert facepalm gif here.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

[Amer 2,080]

You know all this flack over disc 2 has prevented me from opening my 2cd set. I've lost my nerve... (sigh) 

[Chewy 2,372]

24 minutes ago, Amer said:

You know all this flack over disc 2 has prevented me from opening my 2cd set. I've lost my nerve... (sigh) 

Some tracks aren't affected at all and it's still very nice to have additional music! The release is just not 100% perfect like other MM works.

[rough cut 1,714]

Yes, I’d also say lossy.

[crumbs 14,300]

I usually trust my ears over spectograms when it comes to audio quality, but a cursory glance at the spectograms for this score are interesting. Firstly, just to establish that the LLL is pretty much identical to the existing OST:

 

OST (MP3 compressed):

 

LLL Disc 1:

 

As an aside, it's interesting how much more information is present in all 4 takes of the recording session version of this cue. A result of the mastering done in 1993?

 

So obviously this line at 16hz appears disconcerting, but I believe this is just the ambient noise from the recording venue (please correct me if I'm wrong). This appears consistently throughout the soundtrack to varying degrees on all tracks bar OYF’N Pripetshok, Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav and Remembrances. Without checking, I'm guessing those cues were recorded elsewhere, hence not having the 16hz line. Point is, that's been there since 1993.

 

I don't think a scan of the analogue masters would change it because it's probably baked into the recording itself. It would appear that all 3 sources originated from the same digital master though.

 

Where things get concerning are on disc 2. The comments regarding I Could Have Done More (Film Version) are not unfounded. This is the OST track of Williams' original cue:

 

And this is the LLL film version:

 

Now, it doesn't take an audio engineer to see that something is clearly wrong here. It's even more alarming when you compare it to the recording sessions version of the same cue, which are dripping with orchestral detail and sharpness:

 

This would explain why the first half of the track on disc 2 sounds so compressed; a huge amount of audio information has been clipped off. Fortunately, the insert itself is unaffected, so theoretically one could edit a corrected version themselves by combining the two tracks, if they so desired. Obviously doesn't explain how this happened in the first place -- perhaps some liberal use of noise reduction that accidentally got applied to the (already mastered) OST material?

 

Another weird anomaly is Reflections having all frequencies clipped above 16hz, similar to those clipped OST segments on the Azkaban set:

 

Reflections, recording sessions:

 

The Perlman Family seems to have a similar issue, but it's not too dissimilar from the sessions version, so likely just a result of the source material:

 

FWIW, Schindler's Workforce (Film Version), Theme For Recorder and Remembrances (Alternate) all have flawless spectograms, brimming with detail. I'm particularly impressed by Schindler's Workforce (Film Version) which is thoroughly detailed, especially for the long stretches of quieter material (which are lacking in atmospheric/room detail in tracks like The Perlman Family, above):

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Nice analysis.

 

La La Land...you're fired.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Jay: "sounds perfect!"

[Jay 37,281]

I never said it sounds perfect, I said it sounds fine. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I bet, sometime after Williams' death there will be a new release of that prestigeous score, inlcuding all the source music and completely remastered from the original session elements with consistent mixing - and everyone here will buy it again!

[Chewy 2,372]

13 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I bet, sometime after Williams' death there will be a new release of that prestigeous score, inlcuding all the source music and completely remastered from the original session elements with consistent mixing - and everyone here will buy it again!

I'm OK with this one then!

[Holko 9,499]

35 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

and everyone here will buy it again!

You bet your ass we will!

[rough cut 1,714]

D’oh!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

2 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

I bet, sometime after Williams' death there will be a new release of that prestigeous score, inlcuding all the source music and completely remastered from the original session elements with consistent mixing - and everyone here will buy it again!

 

Not if we didn't buy it the first time around.

[Ollie 1,059]

Those spectrograms almost have a 3D effect to them if you stare at them long enough.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think I stared too long. I see spectrograms everywhere.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's like The Matrix! maybe we're all spectrograms? And JWFan is the illusion?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

The moderators certainly are.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:57 PM, Jay said:

Schindler's List was recorded onto analog tape that is perfectly vaulted at Universal with no issues.  Those original tapes were not pulled to assemble this release; they've probably been sitting in the same place since 1993.  I am sure some day in the future they will be pulled and a fresh and modern high res transfer will be made from those tapes, and a new definitive release will be created from that transfer, but that wasn't possible to do for this release.  I am sure LLL would have funded a transfer of those tapes, and MM would have built two CDs full of music from scratch using it if it were possible, but Williams wanted the OST on disc 1, and MM had to fight to get any kind of bonus tracks release at all, so Mike and I went through the possible alternate/film version cues to present to JW to potentially release on a second disc, and when he heard what Mike put together, he thankfully agreed.  If he hadn't, this would have been a single-disc straight OST reissue (with a new booklet).

 

Very late to this party, but it's curious that in this particular instance, Williams took persuasion to include anything more than the OST, where generally all of the other JW/MM expansions have been restored from tapes. It's like being back in Indy box territory again.

 

Is JW just really protective of this score and its presentation, moreso than other scores?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He seems to be. Not surprisingly perhaps.

[Arpy 4,145]

This and Saving Private Ryan, two Spielberg films that dealt with the war.

Not sure whether to pick this up, not at least until it has a proper expansion. 

[Jay 37,281]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Is JW just really protective of this score and its presentation, moreso than other scores?

 

Apparently so, yea

[crumbs 14,300]

It's understandable. Last year I questioned how the entire score (including source music and a remaster of the OST, re-assembled from fresh scans of the master tapes) could fit on two discs -- but the writing was on the wall after what happened with SPR.

 

In hindsight, Schindler's List was never going to be a "bells and whistles" expansion. We already know from Spielberg's home video releases of the film that he's never been comfortable including the standard "bonus" content for this film, despite the (apparent) plethora of deleted scenes and behind-the-scenes footage that exists.

 

It would've been really nice to get fresh scans of the master tapes though -- many of these audio issues may have been avoided. How can the Schindler's List masters (dated from 1993) be in mint condition yet The Lost World multi-track masters (dated 1997) were shedding years ago -- and it was just luck that 1/4 inch stereo masters were salvageable for Mike to scan?

 

The only conclusion I can reach is that Williams wasn't interested in hearing this score with enhanced sound and perfect clarity; like with SPR, he was happy with the sonic quality of the previous release and didn't want the orchestrations any more detailed. I have to admit, even a cursory listen to the recording sessions brings out some unexpected details in the orchestra, certainly moreso than audible in the OST mastering.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

But the new SPR presentation is just ridiculous. I'm prepared to understand SL, but SPR, sorry. Repeating a redundant track and concluding with two bonus cues? At least conclude with the hymn.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Bonuses are usually at the end of the album.

[rough cut 1,714]

On 7/27/2019 at 7:36 PM, Jay said:

Of course, we're in the territory of opinion and everyone's ears being different now; there's no disputing that it has different sound than the 1993 album master nor that if it had been pulled from the original element it would end up sounding better.

 

I’d think that some people who listen directly through their laptop (or earphones such as in-ear) would also have a problem hearing a difference.

 

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

The only conclusion I can reach is that Williams wasn't interested in hearing this score with enhanced sound and perfect clarity

 

I am guessing that JW was told that this was of standard CD release quality. Or why even mention about the quality at? No reason really to expect anything less than standard quality.

 

He might not even have heard the CD; he might’ve just signed off on the cues. Or if he heard it - since it doesn’t really affect the whole release, the difference would be hard to catch if you’re not looking for it.

[crumbs 14,300]

It's also a huge shame that the score is still locked into a "low resolution" audio format, by modern standards. I would've thought all of Mike's JW expansions (bar SPR) have been scanned and remastered at high resolution, meaning they are safely preserved for future audio formats.

 

The entire score will require a ground-up remaster from the master tapes if there are any releases beyond the humble compact disc.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Perhaps SL & SPR are the way they are due to the huge undertaking of the Harry Potter box set?  I'm sure MM spent a lot of time getting that set put together so perhaps there wasn't as much time left in the day to come out with uber releases.  

[Chewy 2,372]

Isn't the LLL SPR complete anyway? What more should we expect?

[rough cut 1,714]

Hymn To The Fallen (Tiësto Remix)

[bollemanneke 3,337]

32 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Isn't the LLL SPR complete anyway? What more should we expect?

C&C, no OST.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

But it is complete.

[Jay 37,281]

If you pop the physical disc into a physical player, you hear the OST followed by bonus tracks.

 

If you import the contents of the disc into your digital music player of choice, you can hear a C&C presentation by merely dropping 2 tracks and changing the order of what remains around in your playlist... and still be able to hear the OST whenever you want, too.  I never would have thought anybody would complain about this, but here we are.

[Smeltington 1,436]

6 hours ago, Arpy said:

Not sure whether to pick this up, not at least until it has a proper expansion. 

 

Let's wait.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

[bollemanneke 3,337]

But there's little point in owning a physical disc if you have to rip it first to make it listenable.

[Smeltington 1,436]

QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

4 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

But there's little point in owning a physical disc if you have to rip it first to make it listenable.

 

It's perfectly listenable. Just press play.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I truly despise buying music in a physical format.  I resent that one of my main musical interests is hamstrung into offering only physical by industry legal mumbo jumbo.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Thought it was a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's true.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Drop dead. I'm sorry. I meant drop dead, compact disc.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

You were supposed to say, "All of it."

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I love physical formats.