Schindler's List - 2CD 25th Anniversary Edition from La-La Land Records (2018)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Wake me up when they release Schindler on wax cylinder

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Me too, I love collecting DVDs and CDs, which is why I prefer them to play nicely. Technically, you could release a complete HP1 with the OST first and then everything that wasn't on there. Makes no sense at all, whatever JW might think.

[Smeltington 1,436]

I love CDs and vinyl myself. But for JW soundtracks in particular, it's complicated because you can't always put the disc in and just play it as is. So I wish we had the option of buying digital files and not having to keep a "bricked" CD sitting around.

 

Yes, I know it's not possible for reasons. But as a consumer you can't help reacting to the situation from a consumer's perspective, even while enjoying the bounty of music being released.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I used to not mind buying physical formats, before I had three kids and a house with nowhere to put all the useless CDs that I have backed up across multiple hard drives anyway.

[Holko 9,516]

That's why you only buy the best and most well done of the best!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Holko said:

That's why you only buy the best and most well done of the best!

 

Damn straight!

 

[Smeltington 1,436]

Well, of course you want to support the whole endeavor as much as you can. But something like Schindler's, I can live without hearing anyway. The point of buying it would be to own a definitive release, as much as listening to the actual contents. Potter, for example, is different. I can't just sit here and not listen to Azkaban knowing it's out there!

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

10 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I used to not mind buying physical formats, before I had three kids and a house with nowhere to put all the useless CDs that I have backed up across multiple hard drives anyway.

 

You need a better house.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

You'll wire me the down payment?  Thanks in advance!

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

You need a better job then!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He never studied.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

Except Copland and Piston.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'm sorry but I've decided that this release is not up to standard.  A needless compromise.  The right way to do it would have been a C&C presentation on disc 1, remastered OST + alternates and source music on disc 2 and 3.  Schindler is worth 3 discs if that's what's needed.  Or at least something like that.  It should have been the definitive "everything you could need to experience Schindler" release.  If Williams would not allow this it shouldn't have been done at all.  The OST sounded fine and was still widely available.

 

I don't want to seem ungrateful, I'm happy to have the film versions and alternates officially released, but I just disagree with the decisions made.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You're ungrateful!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I agree with Williams that the OST should be enshrined.  They could have done a release that was all things to all people.  It was possible!

[Edmilson 7,426]

Mike could have done more!

 

someone would eventually make this joke

[bollemanneke 3,342]

And I asked it for Christmas...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

And I asked it for Christmas...

If you want the extra music this is your only legal option.  I wouldn’t expect another release for possibly decades!

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

Yeah, because this expansion has to sell out first...

[bollemanneke 3,342]

As long as Hook is under this year's Christmas tree, it's all good.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The key part of this story is that LLL were actually approached by the Spielberg/Williams camps about doing an anniversary re-release, right?  That’s pretty cool that it wasn’t the other way around and I suppose Mike and LLL did the best they could given the circumstances.  But I, as a film music enthusiast and consumer, am still a bit unsatisfied with the end product.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Make me... a hinge.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:05 PM, Disco Stu said:

I'm sorry but I've decided that this release is not up to standard.  A needless compromise.  The right way to do it would have been a C&C presentation on disc 1, remastered OST + alternates and source music on disc 2 and 3.  Schindler is worth 3 discs if that's what's needed.  Or at least something like that.  It should have been the definitive "everything you could need to experience Schindler" release.  If Williams would not allow this it shouldn't have been done at all.  The OST sounded fine and was still widely available.

Disc 1: Complete Score Presentation + Alternates

Disc 2: Original 1993 Soundtrack Album + Source Music

 

Right now I'm only listening to the OST on the first disc - I don't like the sound difference and the OST presentation is better than any compromise you can make with this release.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:05 PM, Disco Stu said:

I'm sorry but I've decided that this release is not up to standard.  A needless compromise.

 

The following question is born of total ignorance - taking into account the film/alternate cues, do you get the complete score as heard in the film from this set? Is it just missing source material?

[Holko 9,516]

Depending on where you count Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav and such (not score per se but not coming from within the movie's world), we now do have everything from the film beside explicit source music I think. Some editing has to be done for a chrono playlist and in one case for better sound.

[Jay 37,337]

16 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

The following question is born of total ignorance - taking into account the film/alternate cues, do you get the complete score as heard in the film from this set? Is it just missing source material?

 

Yes, we do.  The OST was already complete in the sense that it already contained every score cue written for the film, it's just that it sometimes contained a different VERSION of some cues than the film version.  On disc 2 of this set, we finally get the proper film versions of any that were different than the OST versions.

 

The only thing Williams was involved with that is not officially released, is source music - which were all existing compositions, not JW originals, except for a short drum march beat.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Holko said:

Depending on where you count Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav and such (not score per se but not coming from within the movie's world), we now do have everything from the film beside explicit source music I think. Some editing has to be done for a chrono playlist and in one case for better sound.

 

A new version of Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav was recorded and appeared on the OST album, but in the final cut, Spielberg did not use that recording and instead went with an existing recording made for the film "Pour Sacha".  I'd speculate he just fell in love with the temp track but we don't really know what happened.

 

 

[Trent B 337]

There will always be a group who's against C&C presentations of scores.  However, I think that's just a small group.  Most of us prefer a C&C release of scores.

I for one do prefer C&C release of scores.  A lot of my favorite scores have been given a C&C release and I for one am very thankful for it.  A lot of good cues were left off their OST's.  Although grant there's been a couple of occasions where the OST was good as it had the best highlights but it's rare for that.

 

For those who say C&C's are not necessary well that's just your opinion. You don't have to force everyone else to follow your rule. I do feel sorry for those who think a C&C is not necessary for releases.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Listening to the sessions for the very first time. 'Well I just wanna start it sooner,' says Williams. Hoping for more surprises like this. Nobody say anything.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

2 hours ago, Trent B said:

There will always be a group who's against C&C presentations of scores.  However, I think that's just a small group.  Most of us prefer a C&C release of scores.

I for one do prefer C&C release of scores.  A lot of my favorite scores have been given a C&C release and I for one am very thankful for it.  A lot of good cues were left off their OST's.  Although grant there's been a couple of occasions where the OST was good as it had the best highlights but it's rare for that.

 

For those who say C&C's are not necessary well that's just your opinion. You don't have to force everyone else to follow your rule. I do feel sorry for those who think a C&C is not necessary for releases.

 

There are plenty of scores that can be experienced perfectly on album. I feel like there's more animosity towards OSTs around here than complete chronological scores.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I remember proclamations in the JP box thread that suddenly the OSTs were all that we needed, after waiting 25 years for expansions. Strange times.

 

Also with this and SPR, you've got two scores where JW has created a listening experience out of essentially the complete score, just with some alternate versions. From that perspective, I can see how it makes sense to him to want to preserve that experience while allowing fans to hear those alternate versions to 'complete the book'. That way, Thor can pretend that the bonus section doesn't exist, and everyone else can reorder a few tracks once ripped.

[Trent B 337]

2 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I feel like there's more animosity towards OSTs around here than complete chronological scores.

A lot of people here do like C&C presentations yes.  I was talking about other places like FSM but still there is a group that just thinks the OST is all there needs to be which is shit in my opinion.

[Arpy 4,145]

OST Supremacists should have nothing to complain about. Yet, when an expanded release comes along: oh boy, the album presentation is long enough, there's already too much music on the OST, what's even missing anyway? Like the C&C Boys are gonna come around to their house and smash their CDs...

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Not all film scores are created equal. Most only need a few highlights on album.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Indeed. I don't see the issue with people who prefer the composer's album program to the complete score. Some of you guys seen to get offended by that! It's how they intended you to experience the music separated from the movie.

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't have an issue with people who prefer OSTs, it's just the attitude that comes with any new expansion that is frustrating. 

5 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Some of you guys seen to get offended by that! It's how they intended you to experience the music separated from the movie.

I'd say my first interest in film scores came from hearing the music in the film and then wanting to listen to it outside of the film, so it's been an eternal hassle to have to be continually disappointed by OST releases which miss out on a wealth of music. However, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the composer's artistic direction when assembling an album, it's just secondary to my appetite for the music as heard in the film.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

I do like expanded/complete releases in that they often reveal small gems that aren't on the OSTs, alternate versions, and so on. What annoys me is this gang of OCD people and their loud complaints when things aren't 100% chronological, or there's a second of music missing from the presentation.

[Arpy 4,145]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I do like expanded/complete releases in that they often reveal small gems that aren't on the OSTs, alternate versions, and so on. What annoys me is this gang of OCD people and their loud complaints when things aren't 100% chronological, or there's a second of music missing from the presentation.

Where are these people? 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

If you haven't noticed them, then you're probably one of them.

[Arpy 4,145]

Hmm...

 

I don't know, I think the discussions in the HP JW set can border on obsessive - missing Shawm, not knowing if there were recordings of this or that or not, but that's about it and I usually find those discussions to be par for the course for this forum. I can just scroll right past it as I please.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

So you haven't noticed any complaints about (slight) lack of chronological presentation?

[Arpy 4,145]

Not really, I don't go trawling through threads looking for them. I've seen comments in this thread for instance, but I haven't bought this score yet and I'm not too fussed about it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

Geez, why would you go looking for them? What's annoying is when they pop up and derail the discussion.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

For me, I'm not dogmatic in either direction.  It's just a matter of what I'm wanting at a given point in time.  C&C main program + remastered OST + extras/alternates is the gold standard for me.  This is why releases like ET and 1941 are the peak of Williams expansions IMO.  They are all anyone could need to experience those scores.  Even when it means a lot of repeated material, I still *prefer* OSTs to be preserved on these specialty releases.  I also understand when it's a logistical decision to not do what I consider the gold standard presentation (such as with JP/TLW) but that wasn't the case with Schindler, it was an artistic choice.  Fair enough, I obviously disagree with the choice.

 

It struck me as a really *strange* release, a weird compromise, from its first announcement but I bought it because I love the score and will always always always support specialty label Williams releases.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I'm occasionally guilty of obsessiveness - my first priority is hearing the music as it was heard in the film, and my brain really latches onto the mixing of a cue - which instruments are highlighted, etc.

 

Amongst all this A&A/C&C debate, the only opinion I have a problem with is that which says 'why on earth would you want to listen to <musical moment A>?', where said musical moment may be source, or trailer music, or not by the film's composer, or be 2 seconds long. We can accept that we'll never hear everything, but I don't get the animosity towards someone enjoying the full soundscape of a film.

[Jay 37,337]

There's nothing wrong with generally preferring OST presentations and not wanting to buy expanded releases.

 

There's nothing wrong with generally preferring complete presentations and not wanting to buy OST albums.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to use editing tools to change the way music is presented on any release into a different order you prefer.

 

I'll never understand why people argue with each other and derail conversations to push their preference

 

Why can't people just people happy that multiple listening options are available for a great score?

[Holko 9,516]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Why can't people just people happy that multiple listening options are available for a great score?

Because for decades and decades only one of the groups get what they want?

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

OMG there's a retarded leprechaun outside my office, banging on some metal plates. I need to listen to a very loud and very long soundtrack...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I also don't think the argument is particularly relevant to why I bumped the thread, which is that this particular release isn't really satisfactory to either perspective.  For those who hold the OST as "all you need", there's little reason to buy this, as the OST has never been unavailable and has no issues in sound quality.  For those like me who value *both* perspectives, this is certainly a must-purchase, but the 29 minute bonus disc is far from the most satisfactory presentation.

 

I think this is perfectly valid, but I know there are those who feel that *any* criticism of specialty labels and their producers, even pretty mild criticism, is just completely unacceptable.

 

6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

there's a retarded leprechaun outside my office, banging on some metal plates.

 

We finally found the perfect metaphor for your posts, which are both relentlessly incessant and utterly useless.

[crumbs 14,306]

38 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Geez, why would you go looking for them? What's annoying is when they pop up and derail the discussion.

 

That's rich, considering you couldn't have done more to add useless comments that contribute nothing to the discussion.

 

And a quick search of posts about 'shawm' in the last 6 months shows only one repeat offender:

 

 

We're all entitled to our viewpoints, and we're all free to express those opinions here. If you're so offended by posters talking about this stuff (in the very topics where they're designated as discussion points), just use the ignore button.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

Crumbs, look up the word irony in the dictionary.

 

The trademark cheeky Stu reply. His mother should have taught him better.