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Schindler's List - 2CD 25th Anniversary Edition from La-La Land Records (2018)


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A rare picture from the Boston scoring sessions back in summer 1993:    

Schindler's List was recorded onto analog tape that is perfectly vaulted at Universal with no issues.  Those original tapes were not pulled to assemble this release; they've probably been sitting in t

I'm sorry but that's just not true.  Other than source music, everything's here.

On 10/6/2019 at 3:10 PM, Jay said:

A new version of Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav was recorded and appeared on the OST album, but in the final cut, Spielberg did not use that recording and instead went with an existing recording made for the film "Pour Sacha".  I'd speculate he just fell in love with the temp track but we don't really know what happened.


I thought the OST album version was also from somewhere else, recorded by a choir in Tel Aviv. Am I wrong? Did JW arrange/record that too?

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2 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

Disreputable? They sound great.

I would say, they sound fine, but there has been a lot of discussion about it.

 

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Unfortunately there's some perplexing mastering issues on disc 2 of this set.

Your frequency analysis is quite interesting, but the spectrograph you used doesn't provide any conclusions in terms of human hearing. There are other spectographs that display the frequencies the way they are audible for the human ear and those indicate how the cutoff at 16kHz affects the listenability - not in the slightest, even if you are generally capable to hear tones beyond that mark.

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

DATs he made in 1993

So it wasn't the original analog sources? That's unusual...

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If MM hadn't been able to persuade JW to include any bonus materials, and it had been a literal OST reissue with no changes, I don't really understand who they would expect to buy it. It's not like it's a long OOP album that many are clamouring to buy.

 

The SPR release was somewhat surprising to me, given the small amount of additional music, but I really struggle to see the economics of a straight reissue. I find the idea of rebuying a $20 album just for some new liner notes a bit stupid really.

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Wasn't the slightly expanded SPR on CD a negotiation as part of the plan for LLL to put out the OST on vinyl record?  I seem to recall that.

 

I think both SPR and SL sound great, and would not need another release to be completely satisfied.

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

The SPR release was somewhat surprising to me, given the small amount of additional music.

Well, but it gives not a single reason to crave for a further expansion, 'cause it has everything relevant on it. Every second, every note, in convincing and consistent sound quality.

 

@Jay, sounds like it would have made sense to wait for that release to happen.

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32 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Wasn't the slightly expanded SPR on CD a negotiation as part of the plan for LLL to put out the OST on vinyl record?  I seem to recall that.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about

 

32 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I think both SPR and SL sound great, and would not need another release to be completely satisfied.

 

There is nothing left to release when it comes to Saving Private Ryan, the LLL edition is 100% complete.

 

For Schindler's List, you're nuts.  The OST is nice and comprehensive, sure.  And the LLL bonus includes the highlights of the remaining score that wasn't included on that.  But a complete and chronological version of the score on disc 1 and a slew of alternate and source music on disc 2 all sourced from first gen elements would be amazing!

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I'm not a C&C fiend!  I only listen to alternates once or maybe twice, and then file them away.  If everything from the movie is essentially on the Schindler's 2-discer, that's enough for moi!  Don't need the absent non-Williams source music, either.

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25 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I have no idea what you're talking about

 

Quote

Basically this was supposed to be a digital and vinyl only release. We convinced UMG to let us do the vinyl, due this Fall, on one condition -- we get to do the CD as well. There is really nothing to add, less than 2 minutes, but it gave us the opportunity to have Mike write the notes and Jim do the artwork to one of the finest films in the past 20 years...to allow us to give this modern classic the deluxe package it deserves. We are honored to be releasing this score and we hope you enjoy its presentation.

 

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=129802&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=1&r=629#bottom

 

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

There is nothing left to release when it comes to Saving Private Ryan, the LLL edition is 100% complete.

 

It's not chronological! ;)

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Don't need the non-Williams source music, either.

 

He didn't write it, but the same team that orchestrated the score orchestrated those existing compositions to fit into the world of the movie, and JW conducted them all with the same orchestra that recorded the score.  They deserve a proper release along with a remaster of the score from first gen elements, but of course I feel that way about every Williams score.

 

 

1 minute ago, mstrox said:

It's not chronological! ;)

 

You just re-order the tracks in your music player of choice

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I personally find Saving Private Ryan to be a stronger listening experience hearing the cues in order than the bizarre sequence he chose for the OST presentation, and the 15 minutes of repeated music is really strange too

 

On 11/19/2018 at 11:14 AM, Jay said:

Chronological order is the way to go for this score, no doubt.  Opening the presentation with the Hymm isn't nearly as effective as opening with Revisiting Normandy and only hearing the Hymm at the end.

 

On 11/19/2018 at 11:14 AM, Jay said:

01 02 Revisiting Normandy (4:06)
02 03 Omaha Beach (9:15)
03 05 Approaching the Enemy (4:31)
04 04 Finding Private Ryan (4:37)
05 07 Wade's Death (4:30)
06 11 High School Teacher (Film Version) (4:31)
07 06 Defense Preparations (5:54)
08 12 The Last Battle (Film Version) (8:02)
09 01 Hymn To The Fallen (6:10)

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34 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I very rarely keep alternate cues - only really if it's a particularly interesting variation. But then I'm usually all about what I heard in the film, so original versions in general interest me less than some people.

 

But in the case of the Schindler's List assembly, some film versions are relegated to the bonus section (possibly just one, happy to be corrected here).

 

Anyway, chronology isn't my issue here, anyone with basic computer skills can change the order of tracks themselves. I'm just confused by some of the weird artifacts on disc 2. I'm sure new analogue scans would have solved all these issues but, for whatever reason, Williams apparently insisted on reusing the exact same OST master for this release (and it didn't make logistical sense to scan the analogue tapes for only the bonus tracks, presumably).

 

This score is significant enough to warrant being scanned in high resolution and properly archived forever. I think that's the missed opportunity that bugs me the most.

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11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

What would be a complete and chronological version of this LLL release, prioritizing the film versions? It's been years since I've watched the movie.

 

On 12/27/2018 at 10:59 AM, Jay said:

image.png

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tjZ3in_WVERGW9Kk6IcH3UqG002yv-oU6hJVU6Lv28o

 

 

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

But in the case of the Schindler's List assembly, some film versions are relegated to the bonus section (possibly just one, happy to be corrected here).

 

On 12/14/2018 at 9:02 AM, Jay said:
  •     1.    Schindler's Workforce (Film Version)    12:09 = The exact same assembly of takes of 2M3/3M1 The Money Exchange3M1B Recruiting that the film uses (the OST album track used different takes and edit points)
  •     2.    Reflections    2:42 = 19M2/20M1 Insert 1, the first attempt to re-do the middle portion of 19M2/20M1 I Could Have Saved More that ultimately got rejected and Insert 2 was recorded and used instead
  •     3.    Theme For Recorder    2:15 = Something recorded at the sessions I believe as potential end credit material
  •     4.    Remembrances (Alternate)    4:31 = An early take with different instrumentation
  •     5.    The Perlman Family    1:15 = An early take of 10M1 The Perlman Family with a different guitar solo, the take used in the film was already on the OST as the second half of "Stolen Memories"
  •     6.    I Could Have Done More (Film Version) *    5:56 = 19M2/20M1 I Could Have Saved More with 19M2/20M1 Insert 2 properly edited into it, like in the final film.  The OST album track is just the original cue with no inserts included.
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I must admit that I understand, why John Williams is so protective of the OST program.

 

Still, a remastered definitive 2CD set with brand new first generation scans, would have been possible without destroying the OST program.

 

Disc 1:

- the Original 1993 Soundtrack Album

 

Disc 2:

- the two film versions

- a bunch of alternates and alternate takes

- the cues that were joined on the OST, this time in seperate form to enable a chronological playlist

- the newly orchestrated and recorded source music

 

That should make for a comprehensive second disc of a running time of at least an hour. The approach is very similar to that of the Close Encounters 2CD set.

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I don't find the OST album to be a strong presentation of this score.  Starting the listening experience of with the Placing The Stones cue, which is supposed to be the climactic moment of the score, is just bizarre and ruins the impact you're supposed to get of building and building up to that moment.  Starting with the moody underscore of Schindler's Workforce is such a stronger start, lulls you into a mood before the emotional breakthroughs slowly penetrate until they explode in the final cue and end credits.  And the way he had that source piece he had nothing to do with edited into one of his film cues is really extra annoying.  I prefer to just listen to the experience his score gives me more often, and only occasionally checking out the source and non-JW stuff.

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Yeah if listening in film order I would certainly put the two concert suites at the start and retain the Theme from Schindler's List as the finale.

 

I happen to like the original album presentation a lot so I usually switch between it and my own complete score programme quite often.

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Leaving aside CD2's apparent 128kbps MP3 source, there are at least 3 popping artifacts on CD1 (~2:27 in track 2, ~1:37 in track 3, ~2:23 in track 8) that were carried over from the original album that would be nice to have fixed in a hypothetical future release. Also, does Immolation sound like it's clipped at around 1:15-1:30 (with the chorus) to anyone else (again, this is the same on the original album)? Quite distracting for a lovely piece of music.

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On 4/27/2020 at 5:09 PM, Jay said:

I don't find the OST album to be a strong presentation of this score.  Starting the listening experience of with the Placing The Stones cue, which is supposed to be the climactic moment of the score, is just bizarre and ruins the impact you're supposed to get of building and building up to that moment.  Starting with the moody underscore of Schindler's Workforce is such a stronger start, lulls you into a mood before the emotional breakthroughs slowly penetrate until they explode in the final cue and end credits.  And the way he had that source piece he had nothing to do with edited into one of his film cues is really extra annoying.  I prefer to just listen to the experience his score gives me more often, and only occasionally checking out the source and non-JW stuff.

 

I don't necessarily agree in this case. It's very true that the now-classic arrangement of the main theme for the "placing the stones" sequence has a very strong cathartic feeling coming at the end of the journey, but this is true mostly when experienced in the film itself, after three hours watching that story and those characters.

 

As a pure listening experience, I understand that the piece is imho the strongest to open the album, because that's the heart of the composition. The OST program has a beautiful musical flow and I think presenting Schindler's List on disc as a listening experience while replicating the music as heard in the film doesn't work as great as other JW scores, mostly because the music tends to offer more a commentary on what we're seeing rather than being a storytelling accompaniment. The only piece that doesn't feel organic to the whole is the choral arrangement of Jerusalem of Gold, imho. 

 

Perhaps there is a way to present the score in a different manner, closer to the film sequencing, but still musically organic. I tried different sets of playlists over the years, using pieces from the OST and the bootleg sessions, but in the end I never found a better presentation than the one JW made for the OST, so I keep sticking to that.

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9 hours ago, Quppa said:

Leaving aside CD2's apparent 128kbps MP3 source, there are at least 3 popping artifacts on CD1 (~2:27 in track 2, ~1:37 in track 3, ~2:23 in track 8) that were carried over from the original album that would be nice to have fixed in a hypothetical future release. Also, does Immolation sound like it's clipped at around 1:15-1:30 (with the chorus) to anyone else (again, this is the same on the original album)? Quite distracting for a lovely piece of music.

 

I still can't wrap my head around what happened to I Could Have Done More (Film Version).

 

Disc 1 OST version:

GIx7CM4.png

 

Disc 2, Film Version:

IwNWp3c.png

 

Something is amiss here. Why has all that detail been lost on disc 2 in the non-insert music? Did that track use different takes from the OST version, and those elements had degraded?

 

Fortunately the insert isn't affected by this weird issue (which raises more questions than answers) but this isn't just a case of pointing out visual differences that are otherwise inaudible; the disc 2 track sounds far less detailed than the disc 1 track.

 

I also hope this doesn't come across as some raving criticism of the set because, reading between the lines, LLL/Mike had their hands tied by Williams on this release.

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54 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Disc 1 OST version:

GIx7CM4.png

 

Disc 2, Film Version:

IwNWp3c.png

The proportions of the graphic are adopted to display the range between the frequencies equally, but it should be adopted to display the range of the the octaves equally.

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DAT looks bad, definitely.

 

I always thought something wasn't right, but never bothered to check it myself.

 

These portions of the film version, are they present in the leaked recording sessions? It would be interesting to see a comparison.

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15 minutes ago, phbart said:

These portions of the film version, are they present in the leaked recording sessions? It would be interesting to see a comparison.

 

The sessions contained two takes of 19m2 and neither have this issue:

6RrIsMZ.png

 

TvUSBt5.png

 

The film take appears to be take 9 (bottom screenshot) and it looks perfectly fine.

 

So yeah, it's a bit strange. I can only assume Mike used a different source for some tracks on disc 2 than whatever source the recording sessions leaked from. I don't know what else would cause that loss in detail, other than lossy compression.

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22 minutes ago, phbart said:

The recording sessions looks stunning. I've never actually looked at the in the spectral view. Really weird what happened on CD2. And portions of the track looks fine, compared to the sessions.

 

That's the insert (which didn't leak in the sessions).

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

That's the insert (which didn't leak in the sessions).

I see. So, on CD2, the portion that looks bad is the one that is present on the leaked sessions, and the portion that looks good is the insert, which is not on the leaked sessions. Is that right?

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