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Schindler's List - 2CD 25th Anniversary Edition from La-La Land Records (2018)


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5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Could also be a licensing/rights thing. It might have been easier to just record his own version of those tracks during the sessions rather than license existing recordings for his soundtrack.

 

Sure, but if that's the only reason, why alter the mood of the pieces?

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5 minutes ago, jamesluckard said:

I believe all the other existing recordings used in the film are credited at the end, there are 5 of them, although none of the dance songs/tangos that Williams recorded are credited, which is weird, since songs are usually credited for the composition, even if they're not the original recordings.

 

I just went through the Azkaban credits looking for the source music and only two things are listed there (A Winter's Spell and something non-Williams), despite that film being filled with both Williams-composed source music and non-Williams source music.

 

It seems to be a case-by-case thing whether these things are actually credited.

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This is the recording of Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav used in the film, from the movie "Pour Sacha." (Note that this video is a slightly different mix from the "Pour Sacha" soundtrack album mix, which I can't find anywhere online):

 

 

This is the album version, performed by The Ramat Gan Chamber Choir, conducted by Hana Tzur, Williams doesn't seem to have any involvement with it.

 

 

The recording used in the film, with the guitar and the whistling and the individual voices more audible, feels human and hopeful. The choral recording feels timeless and solemn, almost funereal. They're radically different and the version Spielberg went with totally defines the ending of the film.

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21 minutes ago, Jay said:

Mike and I don't know if the album versions were recorded intending to be in the film but Spielberg preferred the temp, or if Williams recorded them specifically for his planned album presentation.

 

It remains a mystery!

Thanks!

 

The strange thing is the album versions of the two songs were both recorded by choirs in Israel, and conducted by other people, so based on the liner notes from the original CD, I'm not even clear if Williams had any involvement with them. Yet he clearly chose to include them on the album. Perhaps he commissioned these two Israeli choirs to record these versions?

 

Either way, I'm glad both of the temp track versions stayed in the film.

 

The Billy Bathgate version of OYF'N Pripetshok, arranged by Mark Isham, is much more effective, since it sounds intentionally like an amateur group of cheerful schoolchildren, with spare piano accompaniment. I can't find the whole piece online, but you can listen to a 30 second sample here, it's track 7:

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/billy-bathgate-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1051699204

 

The album version, performed by the Li-Ron Herzeliya Children's Choir of Tel Aviv, conducted by Ronit Shapira, is much like Yeroushalaim, it sounds professional and almost funereal, totally different:

 

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So if I add the following tracks to the end of my rip of Disc 2, will I really be missing anything else?

 

Disc 2 Continued:

 

7. OYF’N Pripetshok (On the Hearth - Film Version)

8. Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav (Jerusalem Of Gold - Film Version)

9. Por una Cabeza (By a Head)

10. Celos (Jealousy)

11. Hebrew Prayer

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28 minutes ago, Muldoon said:

So if I add the following tracks to the end of my rip of Disc 2, will I really be missing anything else?

 

Disc 2 Continued:

 

7. OYF’N Pripetshok (On the Hearth - Film Version)

8. Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav (Jerusalem Of Gold - Film Version)

9. Por una Cabeza (By a Head)

10. Celos (Jealousy)

11. Hebrew Prayer

Well, there are also a number of other dance songs/tangos that Williams recorded for the film.

 

You also might want to add this existing Perlman classical recording that's used as score when Schindler interviews secretaries and hires all the applicants:

 

 

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1 minute ago, fommes said:

Everyone everywhere seems to prefer the Pour Sacha and Billy Bathgate versions; I must be the only one preferring the album versions :)

 

I don't think either of the album versions would work well in the film, as for preferring them as listening experiences on their own, I'm not sure, I'm only interested in the film versions because they're inextricably linked in my mind with those scenes in the film.

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I checked the OST in case there were any crossfades between cues and unfortunately there is one in Give me your names at 2.14''.

I think the cue starting there is the returning women.

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1 minute ago, filmmusic said:

I checked the OST in case there were any crossfades between cues and unfortunately there is one in Give me your names at 2.14''.

I think the cue starting there is the returning women.

 

Maybe Mike added some breathing space between these two cues so we can separate them?

 

Hmm, checking the track times, doesn't look like it. Can we use the sessions to source clean openings/endings of those two cues?

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4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

 

 

Can we use the sessions to source clean openings/endings of those two cues?

I'm sure we can.

But we shouldn't have to.

Anyway, don't want to sound like whining, just that this release isn't what I hoped it would be.

Every serious jwfan and film music lover already has the OST.

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Thanks for checking that, too. It was my main concern with the OST assembly being retained on this release (making a chronological assembly impossible due to crossfades).

 

Only one instance of cross-fading isn't a huge dealbreaker.

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3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Maybe Mike added some breathing space between these two cues so we can separate them?

 

Hmm, checking the track times, doesn't look like it. Can we use the sessions to source clean openings/endings of those two cues?

 

It's pretty easy to split those two cues up using the album version, there's a lengthy sustained note connecting them, I just faded out at the end of one cue and faded in on the opening of the other, in order to put the Auschwitz-Birkenau cue between them.

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4 hours ago, fommes said:

Everyone everywhere seems to prefer the Pour Sacha and Billy Bathgate versions; I must be the only one preferring the album versions :)

 

I prefer to have both!

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7 hours ago, fommes said:

Everyone everywhere seems to prefer the Pour Sacha and Billy Bathgate versions; I must be the only one preferring the album versions :)

 

7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Same!

 

You can't both be the only one!

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6 hours ago, filmmusic said:

I'm sure we can.

But we shouldn't have to.

Anyway, don't want to sound like whining, just that this release isn't what I hoped it would be.

Every serious jwfan and film music lover already has the OST.

 

The way I see this release, considering the theatrical rerelease upcoming, is almost like band merch after a concert. Some people might be discovering this film for the first time next month, and those impressed by the music have  a commemorative album to hear those pretty classical violin solos. 

 

Or like those Blue Note rereleases, where they add bonus takes at the end.

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10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Speaking about completeness, I'm still missing the following alternates:

 

I couldn't have done more

I could have done less

I could have done more but didn't bother

 

 

You forget this version:

 

I might have done more if I hadn’t lost my car keys.

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's a bummer really, because a lot of work went into this release too.


It wasn't originally planned that they'd come out on the same day, but shit happens.

 

I can't imagine the Potter set being anything but a Black Friday announcement. Was Schindler's List delayed?

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Schindler's List was always supposed to come out around now, to tie in with the 25th anniversary movie screenings and 4K Blu Ray release

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I think SL won't sound substantially (if anything at all) different from the 93 release. We've learned that from SPR. But it's ok because it sounds great anyway, and all the music will be there (except source music and alternates).

 

I'm really curious about how the 4K restoration will look since no B&W film was ever released on Dolby Vision or any other HDR format.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

It's a bummer really, because a lot of work went into this release too.


It wasn't originally planned that they'd come out on the same day, but shit happens.

It's not a bummer. Sooner or later everyone will give it the attention that it deserves, but for now it has to wait, because... I'm sorry, but the Harry Potter set overshadows everything!

Just now, phbart said:

[All] the music will be there (except source music and alternates).

The alternates are all there, aren't they? It's just alternate takes that you are talking about.

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Any alternate in terms of Williams sat back down with paper and pencil and wrote something different for a scene that had already been scored is now here.

 

The only thing the session leaks offers that isn't on the new set is source music, and alternate TAKES.  And of course, choir-free versions of any cues that were recorded without choir intending for the choir to be mixed in later.

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I think there might be something missing.

Both the workforce tracks (the ost and the film version too from what I remember) start with the theme in horns.

But there is an original version of the workforce cue that doesn't start with this.

it's the 2m1-3m1 (orig) from the sessions.

I don't see where this could be in the cd.

 

edit: never mind. As i see in the sheets this original cue is glued with another one in the film version probably.

 

edit2:

actually it's a bit of a mess.

 

There is an original 2m1/3m1of 152 bars. (=2m1/3m1 original from sessions)

Then there is a new start and segue to bar 85 of original version. (=2m1/3m1 new from sessions)

 

then 3m1B from sessions is comprised from the original 2m1/3m1 and 3m1B insert like this:

 

3m1B  bars 1-21

2m1/3m1 bars 25-30, 15-23

3m1B 37New bar

2m1/3m1 bars 31-52

unknown bar

2m1/3m1 bars 1-8

3m1B bars 69-213

 

 

So, we might still be missing the original 2m1-3m1 in the cd. I am not sure.

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11 hours ago, Jay said:

It's a bummer really, because a lot of work went into this release too.

 

I'm sure many people and JWfans will be able to (re)discover this beautiful score thanks to this new presentation. I'm very happy MM worked on this, with JW and Spielberg's blessing as well. And I have to say that I'm glad they kept the OST program and included the unreleased/alternate cues as bonus tracks. I'm very fond of Williams' own album sequencing for this score, it truly plays as a symphonic remembrance. I tried to listen to the score in chronological order, but imho it doesn't work as good as other scores in this format. I don't obsess over source music as others do here, so I'm not that displeased about the exclusion. It would have been a nice bonus, but I see that they wanted to feature only the original music composed by JW for the film (save for the two oddities found on the OST).

 

On 11/25/2018 at 4:40 AM, jamesluckard said:

The recording used in the film, with the guitar and the whistling and the individual voices more audible, feels human and hopeful. The choral recording feels timeless and solemn, almost funereal. They're radically different and the version Spielberg went with totally defines the ending of the film.

 

Actually, the choice of that song caused a stir in Israel, as it's a piece very much linked to the memory of the Six Day War and has nothing to do with the memory of the Holocaust. it was so out of character that subsequent prints of the film had it replaced with a different song, "A Walk to Cesarea" (aka "Eli, Eli"), which is the most-performed song in Israel for Holocaust memorials.

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40 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

Actually, the choice of that song caused a stir in Israel, as it's a piece very much linked to the memory of the Six Day War and has nothing to do with the memory of the Holocaust. it was so out of character that subsequent prints of the film had it replaced with a different song, "A Walk to Cesarea" (aka "Eli, Eli"), which is the most-performed song in Israel for Holocaust memorials.

Yep, I read about the reaction in Israel a while back, but I still love that piece of music over that scene, and for American audiences it worked perfectly. :)

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To me the Schindler's List album has been near perfection as far as OST presentations go as pure listening experiences. Having nearly 30 minutes of film versions and some alternate material was an unexpected bonus since I never thought they would expand this soundtrack any time soon. 

 

And as I have said before I completely understand the reasoning behind not including source music etc. on this release even though it might be intrinsically linked to many peoples' memories of the film itself as this release is a showcase and celebration of the music John Williams wrote for the film.

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11 hours ago, filmmusic said:

I think there might be something missing.

Both the workforce tracks (the ost and the film version too from what I remember) start with the theme in horns.

 

It's not your imagination. I've just edited together a comparison of all three versions of I Could Have Done More -- Williams' original version (on the OST), the final film version (which will be on the LLL release), and the OST version with 19M2-20M1 (take 123 from the sessions) edited into it. The insert in the session leaks is completely different to both other versions.

 

And not just subtle performance differences like many of the other takes; the writing is completely different from the film insert. Different usage of themes, less restraint in his orchestration. Not as much violin as the original version but it's "stronger" than the final film insert. It seems this insert was revised again with the final film revision being even more restrained.

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For anyone curious about a "score restore" of the different versions of I Could Have Done More, here it is.

 

All 3 versions are very unique and it's interesting to hear the evolution of John's approach to this emotional scene. Included is JW's original cue synced to picture (as featured on the OST), his original insert for the cue (take 123), and the final film insert which is very different from the original insert (this insert was missing from the session leaks but seems to be the version included on LLL's expansion).

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34 minutes ago, crumbs said:

For anyone curious about a "score restore" of the different versions of I Could Have Done More, here it is.

 

All 3 versions are very unique and it's interesting to hear the evolution of John's approach to this emotional scene. Included is JW's original cue synced to picture (as featured on the OST), his original insert for the cue (take 123), and the final film insert which is very different from the original insert (this insert was missing from the session leaks but seems to be the version included on LLL's expansion).

 

That link is bad

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Just now, crumbs said:

 

Thanks for the heads up, copied the wrong link. Here you go:

 

This link is...absolute good.

Kuvahaun tulos haulle the list is absolute good

 

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28 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Uff i cried seeing the video. 😥

So I guess John Williams couldn't have done more then. ;) 

 

Btw that insert for Oskar and Stern clasping hands was definitely the right decision, gives that extra bit of musical warmth and friendship there.

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