The John Williams Expanded Score Master Spreadsheet

[King Mark 3182]

don't care about yub nub, lapti nek and the missing sail barge cue

 

I just want the rest of ROTJ in better sound quality

 

but even with that the OT is not critical. Star Wars and Empire sound fine to me

 

The real focus for me now is the Prequels and Indiana Jones

 

And The Patriot probably has the most unreleased music

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6478]

We need the rest of the E.T. ride music too.

[crumbs 12625]

24 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I do too!  Even if there’s not much left off, that OST is in dire need of a Matessino remaster.

 

Well it's a pretty glaring hole at the top of the list (considering Story of A Woman has been vetoed and Jane Eyre is lost) so I'm sure it's high on MM's to do list. 

[Dr. Rick 931]

@crumbs Looking at the back of the cases for Family Plot and Midway, Matessino worked on those releases as well. 

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34 minutes ago, ATXHusker said:

@crumbs Looking at the back of the cases for Family Plot and Midway, Matessino worked on those releases as well. 

 

Thanks mate, I've amended the spreadsheet.

[Dr. Rick 931]

Amazing that Matessino has worked on 27(!) JW scores since 2006 (33 if you include SW:OT and Sup II - IV).  

[crumbs 12625]

I can't believe he's involved with over 100 score projects a year to varying capacities. He must be so busy!

[Brundlefly 2308]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

I can't believe he's involved with over 100 score projects a year to varying capacities. He must be so busy!

To busy to do both Mummies!

[crumbs 12625]

There's always the 20th Anniversary release next year

 

[Dr. Rick 931]

 

I never realized before how few scores were done in the 80's (relatively speaking, compared to the 70's and 90's).

 

15 total scores

5 of which are SW / IJ

2 scores done by MM for the entire decade!

 

My crystal ball says either 1 or 2 80's movies will come out this year, probably The River, BOTFOJ, or Always since they're anniversary years.

 

[Jay 31058]

A lot of his time in the 80s was spent with the Boston Pops

[Dr. Rick 931]

Certainly was a factor.  Thankfully MM has worked on most of the 70's scores to save these recordings before they deteriorate.  

[Brundlefly 2308]

3 hours ago, ATXHusker said:

 

I never realized before how few scores were done in the 80's (relatively speaking, compared to the 70's and 90's).

 

15 total scores

5 of which are SW / IJ

2 scores done by MM for the entire decade!

 

My crystal ball says either 1 or 2 80's movies will come out this year, probably The River, BOTFOJ, or Always since they're anniversary years.

Williams' 80s are as poorly completed as Goldsmith 90s!

[Dr. Rick 931]

 

On 1/9/2019 at 3:16 PM, ATXHusker said:

 

I never realized before how few scores were done in the 80's (relatively speaking, compared to the 70's and 90's).

 

15 total scores

5 of which are SW / IJ

2 scores done by MM for the entire decade!

 

My crystal ball says either 1 or 2 80's movies will come out this year, probably The River, BOTFOJ, or Always since they're anniversary years.

 

 

So now that Monsignor is off the list, does this possibly mean that more 80's expanded releases are coming this year?  Certainly trending that way...

 

 

[crumbs 12625]

BOTFOJ 30th Anniversary would be a welcome surprise! But considering JFK has been tied up for so long... 

 

Would an Oliver Stone box set be possible this year instead? 

[crumbs 12625]

Updated to include Minority Report and Monsignor. Hopefully we can tick a few more off before the end of the year

 

[Dr. Rick 931]

14 hours ago, crumbs said:

Updated to include Minority Report and Monsignor. Hopefully we can tick a few more off before the end of the year

 

 

Although it indicates Monsignor was done in 2017

[crumbs 12625]

Updated info for the 3 disaster movie scores.

[danbeck 87]

You can add at "JAWS 2" that "source music intentionally omitted". As clarified in MM interview John Williams vetoed the inclusion of his source music for the film - like the music playing in the radio when Tina and Eddie are at the beach and the girl is in the water sky and the shark tower scene [besides the "Amity High-School Band" material that was not recorded by Williams and could not be found]. 

As I mentioned before this is the one release where I think MM work was not as perfect as I came to expect. There's too much hiss (while the reportedly much hissier sources for the first Jaws resulted in a cleaner presentation) and the mix of the three tracks sound a bit off to me comparing to the film mono mix and the original album (with the low strings for the Jaws theme kind of burried in the mix while in the movie it was more proheminent [see the ending of "Catching the Cable", "The Charred Body", section of the "The Big Jolt" where the fin is diving] - I guess if this mix was done after he did Jaws 1 (for me one his great achievements in restoration - where MM made the decision to have the low strings Shark theme as the center of the score and hiss was very effectively minimized) he might have decided on a similar approach to Jaws 2, which was traditional 3-track left-center-right, but mixing the channel with the low strings a bit higher and minimizing more the hiss).   

 

On "JAWS" some source music was also intentionally omitted (the film version of the marching band, not by Williams)

[A. A. Ron 850]

Quick revision for you: Matessino's 2013 expansion of "The Fury" was on LLL, not Intrada.

[Edmilson 4514]

Jesus Christ, Amistad has 46 fucking minutes of unreleased music?!? 

 

This, along with the prequels and sequels, might have the biggest amount of unreleased material of the ones that didn't got expanded yet (and haven't leaked anywhere else). They could have relased it in 2017 for the 20th birthday, so now maybe we'll have to wait until 2022 for the 25th birthday?

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7 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Jesus Christ, Amistad has 46 fucking minutes of unreleased music?!? 

 

This, along with the prequels and sequels, might have the biggest amount of unreleased material of the ones that didn't got expanded yet (and haven't leaked anywhere else).

 

Surprisingly, Angela's Ashes has a fair bit of missing material if this list is accurate. And it was the 20th Anniversary this year too! But of course it had to be yet another Sony score, so we can throw any hope for an expansion in the bin (next to Hook). 

 

Still only ~27 minutes unreleased though, so Amistad could indeed be the meatiest remaining score (considering War Horse/WOTW/KOTCS have all leaked and Tintin is off limits for multiple reasons).

[crumbs 12625]

Updated to reflect Far & Away and The River. Mike's really smashing through that 80s period now, only a handful of non-Disney scores left from that decade.

[E-Wan 56]

The Fury complete score was actually released by La-La Land not Intrada.

And Monsignor expanded score was released by Intrada not Varese.
 

[Bayesian 994]

On 12/1/2019 at 10:56 PM, crumbs said:

Still only ~27 minutes unreleased though, so Amistad could indeed be the meatiest remaining score (considering War Horse/WOTW/KOTCS have all leaked and Tintin is off limits for multiple reasons).

This might be a basic question for many of you, but who tends to do the leaking of such scores? Somebody involved with the engineering of the tapes? Someone like an archivist at a studio? It seems like a high risk thing to do, so whoever does it must truly care about getting music out that otherwise might not get out for years or decades..

[Fabulin 3433]

 

 

[crumbs 12625]

Updated with WOTW.

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Another title ticked off in Always!

 

If Varese can expand Presumed Innocent, and LLL revisit Hook and tackle JFK, we'd have the biggest stretch of chronological Matessino expansions in JW's filmography!

[crumbs 12625]

Feels real damn good to fill in this gap here (even if Mike didn't look after Missouri Breaks, from all accounts that 2013 expansion is comprehensive with both film score and remastered OST):

 

But this just pisses me off:

 

Dammit Disney, get your shit together.

[A Farewell to Kings 3573]

Was Malone involved with the Kritzerlands?

[Chewy 1946]

11 hours ago, Permanent Waves said:

Was Malone involved with the Kritzerlands?

 

Credits for The Missouri Breaks:

 

Quote

Produced for this CD release by Bruce Kimmel (he also wrote the liner notes)

Mastered by James Nelson at Digital Outland

Tape transfers by John Davis, Precision AudioSonics

Art Direction and Package Design: Doug Haverty for Art & Soul Design

 

[Jay 31058]

I'd repurchase Missouri Breaks if it got the Matessino touch

[crumbs 12625]

Updated with Fiddler!

[Dr. Rick 931]

Three 1970s releases and one 1980s release this year.  Wonder what 2022 will bring?  More early 70s like Paper Chase, Cormack and CL?  Or some 90s scores perhaps since there’s about a dozen from that decade to be expanded.

 

As it will be the maestro’s 90th birthday year, keeping my fingers crossed for a great flood of expanded releases!  

[BrotherSound 1844]

On 27/11/2018 at 8:16 AM, crypto said:

I figure this could be a useful resource in years to come as we look towards possible future expansions.

So, I’ve recently discovered the SABAM repertoire database lists precise timings for many of these scores, as heard in the film, which can be useful for getting a rough idea of how much additional music there might be available for an expansion, though of course alternates and unused cues won’t be factored into these durations:

 

The Accidental Tourist 39:03

The Adventures of Tintin 1:32:25

Amistad 1:29:08

Angela’s Ashes 37:32

The Book Thief 1:05:33

Born on the Fourth of July 40:59

Catch Me If You Can 45:43

Cinderella Liberty 42:16

Conrack 20:20

How To Steal A Million 56:05

JFK 1:22:06

Memoirs of a Geisha 1:27:30

Nixon 1:38:25

The Patriot 1:31:32

The Post 43:40

Presumed Innocent 38:52

The Reivers 38:46

The Rare Breed 53:57

Sabrina 46:57

Seven Years In Tibet 1:19:43

Sleepers 1:04:20

SpaceCamp 49:46

Stepmom 1:01:12

The Sugarland Express 22:17

The Terminal 58:28

Valley of the Dolls 23:46 (plus 40:23 comp. Previn)

 

I’ve only included timings of music composed by JW.

[crumbs 12625]

That's a fantastic resource @BrotherSound! Thanks so much for going to the trouble to check those timings. I wish there was a way we could "save" or "bookmark" posts for future reference.

 

The first one I checked was Amistad (though it appears someone had already calculated figures there; 46min unreleased was listed in the spreadsheet). That'll be a very healthy expansion in the future, and that's not even factoring in potential alternates!

 

25 minutes unreleased from Seven Years in Tibet as well (again, based only on what was used in the film). I watched that film recently and can't say I noticed that much unreleased music, especially because @Holko identified that lots of the Tibetan chanting seems to be non-Williams source music. Then there's music on the OST that wasn't even used in the film, like Peter's Rescue. Will be interesting to hear Williams' intended score for the film one day; is a 25th Anniversary release out of the question this year?

 

But the biggest surprise is Nixon. That has at least 52 minutes of unreleased music, possibly more if Williams scored the longer director's cut (I assume your tally above is for the theatrical cut; I'm pretty confident there's non-tracked music exclusive to scenes in the DC). So outside the Star Wars prequels/sequels, I think this score has the most unreleased music of any remaining title.

 

Then there's funny situations like CMIYC and Angela's Ashes, where the OST has more music than the film but there's still unreleased music.

[Brando 873]

On 02/12/2019 at 1:56 AM, crypto said:

 

Surprisingly, Angela's Ashes has a fair bit of missing material if this list is accurate. And it was the 20th Anniversary this year too! But of course it had to be yet another Sony score, so we can throw any hope for an expansion in the bin (next to Hook). 

 

Still only ~27 minutes unreleased though, so Amistad could indeed be the meatiest remaining score (considering War Horse/WOTW/KOTCS have all leaked and Tintin is off limits for multiple reasons).

I just stumbled upon this thread. I've seen Tintin one time years ago, maybe in theaters, maybe renting it after, I can't remember. What are the reasons for it being off limits?

[Disco Stu 15468]

5 minutes ago, Brando said:

I just stumbled upon this thread. I've seen Tintin one time years ago, maybe in theaters, maybe renting it after, I can't remember. What are the reasons for it being off limits?

Tha main reason is that scores recorded in LA from July 2005 on are prohibitively expensive to re-release due to a musicians union contract that took effect then

[crumbs 12625]

Yeah, and the secondary reason is that labels have seemingly hit a roadblock releasing expansions that involve Sony Music (or Sony Pictures, I forget which).

[Jay 31058]

There is no roadblock at either Sony entity. 

 

There never was one with Sony Pictures, and in recent months we've Legends Of The Fall expanded, Hook OST rebuild, and Field of Dreams expanded from Sony Music through the specialty labels. 

[Brando 873]

Ohhhh I see, I had heard about the expensive part before, wasn't sure if that applied to it. And I've also learned that Sony aren't very nice to us when it comes to expansions.

[Jay 31058]

That's not true at all, they are very nice. I have many amazing specialty label expansions licensed from Sony Music on my shelf. 

 

The problem with Sony Music is when they hoard stuff for themselves instead of licensing to the specialty labels then do a crappy job with it, like the Ghostbusters scores and their waste of a license to six Star Wars scores. 

[Brando 873]

The hoarding is what I meant by not being nice.

[Jay 31058]

Ah, gotcha

[BrotherSound 1844]

1 hour ago, crypto said:

But the biggest surprise is Nixon. That has at least 52 minutes of unreleased music, possibly more if Williams scored the longer director's cut (I assume your tally above is for the theatrical cut; I'm pretty confident there's non-tracked music exclusive to scenes in the DC). So outside the Star Wars prequels/sequels, I think this score has the most unreleased music of any remaining title.

I took a look at the entries for Nixon again, and there’s a second entry of 4:00 that may account for music exclusive to the director’s cut (or perhaps it’s for JW-composed source?):

 

 

The Patriot appears to have an entry specifically for the director’s cut, which I know tracks some music, but features 3:12 of Williams’ score not heard in the theatrical release.

 

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24 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

I took a look at the entries for Nixon again, and there’s a second entry of 4:00 that may account for music exclusive to the director’s cut (or perhaps it’s for JW-composed source?):

 

Could it be the theatrical trailer? I guess it's closer to 4:20 though.

 

 

Director's cut would make more sense, but there's one lengthy deleted scene with nearly 10 minutes of underscore.

[BrotherSound 1844]

12 hours ago, crypto said:

Could it be the theatrical trailer? I guess it's closer to 4:20 though.

Oh, that’s very likely! Especially because there’s not actually 4:20 of the actual ‘Nixon Trailer’ cue itself: the ending has been replaced with music tracked from ‘The Farewell Scene’ (22M1 Farewell Speech). The ending heard in ‘1960s, The Turbulent Years’ is how it was written.
 

14 hours ago, crypto said:

25 minutes unreleased from Seven Years in Tibet as well (again, based only on what was used in the film). I watched that film recently and can't say I noticed that much unreleased music, especially because @Holko identified that lots of the Tibetan chanting seems to be non-Williams source music.

I’m less certain about the timings for Tibet than most of these other films. The only entry for Williams shows a timing of just 13:23, which I know can’t possibly account for all the underscore in the film, even though it’s been a long time since I’ve seen it:

 

 

I believe the rest of the (orchestral) score is accounted for by this odd entry credited to ‘Ns Shares’:

[crumbs 12625]

Wow, 66 minutes of non-Williams music?!

 

I remember there being almost constant source music throughout the Tibetan sequences but didn't realise there was that much.

[BrotherSound 1844]

32 minutes ago, crypto said:

Wow, 66 minutes of non-Williams music?!

Oh no, sorry for the confusion: I mean I believe that 66 minutes of Seven Years In Tibet score by “Ns Shares” is also Williams, for a total of about 79 minutes. There’s other entries to account for the other music in the picture: source percussion and chanting, Clair de Lune, etc.

 

And 79 minutes would be consistent with that estimate of approximately 25 minutes unreleased:

 

1 hour 6 minute OST

- 7 minute reprise of the title track

- 4 minutes for unused ‘Peter’s Rescue’

= ~55 minutes of score from the film released

 

+ ~25 unreleased minutes in film

= ~79 total minutes of JW score in film

 

So, looks like this might need to be a 2-CD expansion, which I would not have guessed.

[crumbs 12625]

Ah, that makes sense now!

 

I guess it doesn't account for any potential alternates, etc. From memory there's music on the OST that differs from music as used in the film (assuming the track titles correlate with the scene they were intended for, which isn't always the case on Williams OSTs). There's a scene where Pitt steals food from a small village that sounds different on album than in the film, for example.

 

I'd love to know if that music box that reappears throughout the film was a JW composition too.