Alan 689 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Cool to have the perspective of some composers here! bollemanneke and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alan said: Cool to have the perspective of some composers here! I'm glad i get to share my knowledge, though it is somewhat limited. There are very few people who are actually interested in what I have to say about this. redishere, Alan, Once and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Alan said: Cool to have the perspective of some composers here! It's fun to talk about! It's always interesting for me on projects, because I come from an editing background as well, so on one hand I totally get some of the things that end up happening. On the other...MYYY MUUUUSIC!!!! My biggest disappointment was having to cut a climactic cue where all the themes and motifs get to intertwine...and it was cut for time...specifically music time. It was a stage production for a contest and they had moronic rules (like only having 10 minutes of music for a 40 minute production). Once, Alan, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, TSMefford said: It's fun to talk about! It's always interesting for me on projects, because I come from an editing background as well, so on one hand I totally get some of the things that end up happening. On the other...MYYY MUUUUSIC!!!! Yeah, same here. My dad is an editor and I inherited a lot of his editing talent. That's why I do those projects where I mute the dialogue and just have the music. I can study the music and get practice editing. And let's not forget the fun. The Illustrious Jerry and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redishere 697 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, TSMefford said: Oh yeah. Everyone has different philosophies. I'm totally cool with tracking (as someone who does Editing as well as composing), but I prefer to be involved and help make sure it sounds good. That way if I need to write an overlay or a new opening or something, then I can and it'll help the flow (unlike the above example). If I'm involved I can also see if the Director needs a different intention or something for that moment and maybe revise something (if time allows). I always prefer to write something new, but time is time. If there's no time, then go ahead and track it. So sometimes it's lazy, but sometimes it can be useful if there's some last minute changes that will ultimately help the film. You're absolutely right: I'm an editor as well, so I understand it can sometimes happen while working on a scene, and there's nothing wrong with changing things this way, especially if it makes the scene better, or if the original cue doesn't fit the overall mood. Sometimes you realize a track works better for a completely different scene! Anyway, I get what you say: I prefer to be involved to make things flow better. I've seen some terrible frankenstein cut-and-paste of tracked cues. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Space Pineapple Prod. said: Yeah, same here. My dad is an editor and I inherited a lot of his editing talent. That's why I do those projects where I mute the dialogue and just have the music. I can study the music and get practice editing. And let's not forget the fun. I love duplicating film edits. It's very educational and helps grow a lot of skills. Plus, it gives me insight into things that I might be able to help out with in the future from the composer perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, TSMefford said: I love duplicating film edits. It's very educational and helps grow a lot of skills. Plus, it gives me insight into things that I might be able to help out with in the future from the composer perspective. Precisely. All you need is the music, good editing software, and a good DVD ripper. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: Yeah, same here. My dad is an editor and I inherited a lot of his editing talent. That's why I do those projects where I mute the dialogue and just have the music. I can study the music and get practice editing. And let's not forget the fun. I'm not an editor really, but I've given my shot at mixing music. I tried using the FYC and OST to make a chronological edit for The Force Awakens, but I wanted to do it without having tonnes of small cues, so I did a lot of blending. It's a a lot of fun, and I admire people who do that professionally. It's not easy, I know. Pieter Boelen and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said: I'm not an editor really, but I've given my shot at mixing music. I tried using the FYC and OST to make a chronological edit for The Force Awakens, but I wanted to do it without having tonnes of small cues, so I did a lot of blending. It's a a lot of fun, and I admire people who do that professionally. It's not easy, I know. it may not be easy, but it sure is fun. I also love putting in unused cues. My personal favorite was hearing the original "Trapped on D Deck" in context. I can see why they did all that tracking. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I'm not an editor really, but I've given my shot at mixing music. I tried using the FYC and OST to make a chronological edit for The Force Awakens, but I wanted to do it without having tonnes of small cues, so I did a lot of blending. It's a a lot of fun, and I admire people who do that professionally. It's not easy, I know. Oh yeah. Music editors are geniuses. Even when it's a Frankenstein job, they still manage to make it sound as smooth as it possibly could (most of the time). And even when it isn't, it's usually hidden under sound fx or dialog. What I love doing especially (which would probably drive people nuts to replicate) is mixing together completely different tracks. I've found tracks that I love the underscore to, but then grab a drum beat from a different track, change the speed and sync them up and it's suddenly like a whole new excellent track. redishere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 It's really fun when you're done and you get to listen to it! Of course, I really don't know what I'm doing, and I don't necessarily have the resources to make a convincing edit. However, I did it and I'm proud when I listen to it. TSMefford and redishere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said: It's really fun when you're doing and you get to listen to it! As a composer, when I'm involved in it, it's still fun, even on my own music. But when no one tells me (and does a hack job, typically a picture editor and not a music editor), it's very...cringe-worthy. Once and redishere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, TSMefford said: As a composer, when I'm involved in it, it's still fun, even on my own music. But when no one tells me (and does a hack job, typically a picture editor and not a music editor), it's very...cringe-worthy. A picture editor should know how to edit music. That's just as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 Back more on-topic. I've been going back through the Prisoner of Azkaban film and noticed that 1MD Knight Bus not only has a section dialed out (when Harry sees the chandelier on the bus, etc.) but there's a pretty horrid music edit in the music that is there I hadn't noticed before. This cue is even longer than I thought I guess. 5 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: A picture editor should know how to edit music. That's just as important. Lol true. So many don't though. You'd be shocked how many poor music edits I hear from fellow picture editors. It's a relief to know some picture editors who are also musicians that get it. The Illustrious Jerry, redishere and Once 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: A picture editor should know how to edit music. That's just as important. On that note, check out some of the custom cover threads on this forum. We have talented picture editors here too! TSMefford, redishere and Pieter Boelen 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said: On that note, check out some of the custom cover threads on this forum. We have talented picture editors here too! I'd imagine we do! This seems like the kind of place for them. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redishere 697 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, TSMefford said: Music editors are geniuses. Even when it's a Frankenstein job, they still manage to make it sound as smooth as it possibly could (most of the time). And even when it isn't, it's usually hidden under sound fx or dialog. 8 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: A picture editor should know how to edit music. That's just as important. Right as hell! I've made some music videos for underground bands (including mine haha), and I couldn't believe how many bands had a bad experience with other videomakers. I don't think I'm a genius, but a lot of editors don't give a damn about rhythm in music while editing. It's baffling. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, redishere said: Right as hell! I've made some music video for underground bands (including mine haha), and I couldn't believe how many bands had a bad experience with previous videomakers. I don't think I'm a genius, but a lot of editors don't give a damn about rythm in music while editing. It's baffling. There are some music edits I've heard in big films that ignore rhythm too. I suppose they had to, but ugh. There's a very jarring one in Super 8. Half-Blood Prince has a messy In Noctem edit during Dumbledore's Speech too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 You guys ever seen this small indie flick called Phantom Menace? Which had every bit of horrendous editing released on album by someone who had no clue about the market and the fans? crumbs, Pieter Boelen and TSMefford 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,615 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: On that note, check out some of the custom cover threads on this forum. We have talented picture editors here too! Here's mine Alan, Holko, DJMcNiff and 9 others 1 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Honest to MM, I'll use that on my phone. Saved. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Holko said: You guys ever seen this small indie flick called Phantom Menace? Which had every bit of horrendous editing released on album by someone who had no clue about the market and the fans? Hmmm...you know...I think I may have heard about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 And its sequel Revenge of the Sith which possibly has the absolutely most repulsive lack of respect for music in its tracking that I ever heard? TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Holko said: And its sequel Revenge of the Sith which possibly has the absolutely most repulsive lack of respect for music in its tracking that I ever heard? These movies sound horrible. Why would they make a sequel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Holko said: And its sequel Revenge of the Sith which possibly has the absolutely most repulsive lack of respect for music in its tracking that I ever heard? I still find the tracking in ROTS pretty heartbreaking. Some of the key moments in the entire trilogy are scored with badly tracked and edited music from TPM and AOTC. Absolutely terrible and, sadly, will make for a complete release that has some pretty glaring narrative holes!* *I'm right in thinking that Williams didn't record music for the tracked sequences, right? Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Space Pineapple Prod. 183 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Holko said: And its sequel Revenge of the Sith which possibly has the absolutely most repulsive lack of respect for music in its tracking that I ever heard? If that's what you think you have not heard Titanic. Jesus Christ that one was bad. bollemanneke, MikeH, Bilbo and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alan said: I still find the tracking in ROTS pretty heartbreaking. Some of the key moments in the entire trilogy are scored with badly tracked and edited music from TPM and AOTC. Absolutely terrible and, sadly, will make for a complete release that has some pretty glaring narrative holes!* *I'm right in thinking that Williams didn't record music for the tracked sequences, right? If they were planned to be tracked from the beginning then probably not. But I have no idea. 3 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: If that's what you think you have not heard Titanic. Jesus Christ that one was bad. Oh great. I haven't tackled Titanic yet. That one sounds like fun. Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said: If that's what you think you have not heard Titanic. Jesus Christ that one was bad. Have you heard March on the Jedi Temple? or Half a Ship? or the Battle of Kashyyyk? Titanic is hacked up all over but I don't think any edit has ever gotten as low. Alan, crumbs and The Illustrious Jerry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Alan said: I still find the tracking in ROTS pretty heartbreaking. Some of the key moments in the entire trilogy are scored with badly tracked and edited music from TPM and AOTC. Absolutely terrible and, sadly, will make for a complete release that has some pretty glaring narrative holes!* Duel of the Fates tracked for Yoda v.s. Sidious. Duel of the Fates tracked for a shot of Anakin talking to Jawas. Alan and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: Duel of the Fates tracked for Yoda v.s. Sidious. Duel of the Fates tracked for a shot of Anakin talking to Jawas. Goodness. Did a casual soundtrack fan do the music editing? redishere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 Yes, one who actively dislikes Williams' fame and tries to drown him out whenever possible. Ben Burtt. Alan, TSMefford, crumbs and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Those tracked bits are an accurate reflection of George Lucas' filming process with the Prequels. Just inserting random stuff all over the place. "We'll fix it in post." bollemanneke and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Holko said: Yes, one who actively dislikes Williams' fame and tries to drown him out whenever possible. Ben Burtt. Ah yes. The same Ben Burtt who drowned out The Kronos Wartet in Into Darkness. I know him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 I’m not sure all those Duel of the Fates are tracked. Maybe in AotC but doesn’t RotS have a re-recorded choir? And wasn’t a lot of the tracking agreed with John Williams before they started? (Not that that makes it any better). Titanic is still the worst in that regard for me. Most of the edits sound really really bad and jarring. One of the many reasons why the LLL release was so welcome . Just now, TSMefford said: Ah yes. The same Ben Burtt who drowned out The Kronos Wartet in Into Darkness. I know him well. Eh, can’t blame a guy for drowning out Giacchino. It should probably be done more often! 😜 crumbs, TSMefford, Molly Weasley and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Bilbo said: Eh, can’t blame a guy for drowning out Giacchino. It should probably be done more often! 😜 Oh don't get me into the Giacchino arguments on here. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alan 689 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Holko said: Yes, one who actively dislike Williams and tries to drown him out whenever possible. Ben Burtt. Testify! I know we've drifted off topic so let me at least mention HP here as a comparison. The tracking in COS doesn't feel anywhere near as egregious as the prequels. William Ross might actually have been a god send if his adaption work saved us from 2+ hours of heavy editing. It's the same music as PS, but at least it has been mostly re-worked and recorded. I wasn't aware of much tracking at all in POA so it must have been well done! TSMefford, Molly Weasley, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Alan said: Testify! I know we've drifted off topic so let me at least mention HP here as a comparison. The tracking in COS doesn't feel anywhere near as egregious as the prequels. William Ross might actually have been a god send if his adaption work saved us from 2+ hours of heavy editing. It's the same music as PS, but at least it has been mostly re-worked and recorded. I wasn't aware of much tracking at all in POA so it must have been well done! Oh yes. Absolutely. CoS has some of the best tracking I've heard. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,617 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, redishere said: Right as hell! I've made some music videos for underground bands (including mine haha), and I couldn't believe how many bands had a bad experience with other videomakers. I don't think I'm a genius, but a lot of editors don't give a damn about rhythm in music while editing. It's baffling. I came across something on YouTube last year which had tips for making vacation-style videos (which I do a lot of) and the one musical thing it mentioned was the importance of having the music and visuals react such that if there's a major change of scene or location or in pacing, the music should reflect that. It feels like a missed opportunity when creators don't at least try to do it - I certainly do my best to make the audio/visuals synchronised and have a rhythm. I think most YT creators don't even try. crumbs, TSMefford, redishere and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, TSMefford said: Oh yes. Absolutely. CoS has some of the best tracking I've heard. Look forward to recreations coming in once the new set gets to Mordor. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I think HP:PS has the best tracking that comes to mind. All of the edits work technically and they improve on JW's original cues. TSMefford and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, TSMefford said: Oh don't get me into the Giacchino arguments on here. XD And so our little spit ends, and we part ways. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Wow, what a reaction to my initial post. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, bollemanneke said: Wow, what a reaction to my initial post. Just a bit. A small reaction. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,790 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Attack of the clones' duel of the fates was composed by Williams for the film. But I think that they tracked a phantom menace rendition in part of it, the ending if I remember correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post redishere 697 Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, TSMefford said: Oh yes. Absolutely. CoS has some of the best tracking I've heard. The only bad tracking in HP is the one in the ultimate editions of PS and CoS. I stil can’t believe those are official home video releases: it’s like they put random crossfades on two unrelated tracks, and pressed export without checking if it worked. Holko, bollemanneke and TSMefford 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 It's usual for deleted scenes as a bonus, not when reintegrated into the movie. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redishere 697 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, Holko said: It's usual for deleted scenes as a bonus, not when reintegrated into the movie. Yeah, you’re right. I just didn’t expect an official extended edition to feature the same deleted scenes glued into the movie with badly edited/tracked music 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Maybe they just did it in a day, which is particularly odd because those Ultimate Editions seemed to be well thought through. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,852 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: Attack of the clones' duel of the fates was composed by Williams for the film. But I think that they tracked a phantom menace rendition in part of it, the ending if I remember correctly They just tracked a percussion overlay from "Qui-Gon's Noble End". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I get why it's there, and conceptually the idea of this tune playing out as Anakin takes one step closer and closer to his inevitable "fate" is really cool. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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