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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - SAMPLES and clips discussion

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Listening to the partial clean "Rescue of Sirius" from that podcast from a few weeks ago has finally made me realize how great a cue it is:

 

 

I'm still not a huge fan of Buckbeak's theme (in any context), but the opening of this cue kicks some serious ass -- and I'm excited to hear the full clean version on the new set. This cue clearly foreshadowed the (imho) even better "Presses Roll" from The Post

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15 minutes ago, mahler3 said:

 

As Mike said, "heightened antenna!" 🙂

 

Yes, well spotted - I thought it was quite seamless for the Hedwig and Wondrous World overlays, but Fluffy was a bit trickier to sync up . Sorry about that, I just thought it appropriate to insert JW talking about the Children's Suite movements considering the subject matter. 

Here's the source material if anyone is interested:

 

 

 

No big deal, the interview and the music were so interesting that I completely forgot about that sync issue until now 😂

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Well if we are being accruate The Shrieking Shack is actually 6½ minutes of music if you are just speaking of the scene in the house itself. Including all the surrounding material it runs much longer of course. And it is awesome to finally hear it all on its own in its full glory. :) 

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1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Well if we are being accruate The Shrieking Shack is actually 6½ minutes of music if you are just speaking of the scene in the house itself. Including all the surrounding material it runs much longer of course. And it is awesome to finally hear it all on its own in its full glory. :) 

 

I didn't time it with a stopwatch. :D

 

I just meant that's what it feels like... Because this scene is scored throughout, without a single interruption. It may be underscore for the most part, but the underscore in PoA is simply brilliant! I like the cheated and shrill brass, when the "betrayal" becomes clear and Hermione screams "I trusted you!": in the first video above at around 1:30.

 

But yeah, with the surrounding music (entry and exit of the Shrieking Shack) it's apt to be around 15 to 25 minutes!

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41 minutes ago, publicist said:

All three sound like the top melody went missing.

Agreed. Revisions with A Window to the Past theme were an obvious improvement.

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10 minutes ago, Jay said:

The harpsichord motif was tracked by the music editors into the Shrieking Shack scene, we've known that since the sheet music leak. 

 

But just the one at the beginning when they enter the Shack, right?

 

Peter Pettigrew's theme heard several times during that scene, after he appears...

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20 minutes ago, Jay said:

And it's all tracked.

 

What does that mean, though?

 

JW scored these scenes, and then later came up with this motif? Or that the producers asked JW later on to add something? 

 

But hopefully this motif is heard in all its glory on this set! 

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8 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

What does that mean, though?

 

JW scored these scenes, and then later came up with this motif? Or that the producers asked JW later on to add something? 

 

But hopefully this motif is heard in all its glory on this set! 

 

I doubt the tracked motif would appear on the set during the Confrontation Scene cue. 

 

I don’t think it was necessarily JW that placed it over the scene. More than likely music editors or even the post sound cue did pasted it in far after the scoring.

 

It’s probably sourced from Reading the Map or one of the other Pettigrew cues.

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17 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

I doubt the tracked motif would appear on the set during the Confrontation Scene cue. 

 

I don’t think it was necessarily JW that placed it over the scene. More than likely music editors or even the post sound cue did pasted it in far after the scoring.

 

It’s probably sourced from Reading the Map or one of the other Pettigrew cues.

 

Hmmm, one would think that, if JW had come up with this motif for Pettigrew from the start, he would have used it for the Shrieking Shack scene, which is one of the most prominent scenes featuring Pettigrew.... 

 

Unless, of course, it was initially just incidental music written for a Pettigrew scene and the producers or music editors decided to make it Pettigrew's theme.

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13 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

Hmmm, one would think that, if JW had come up with this motif for Pettigrew from the start, he would have used it for the Shrieking Shack scene, which is one of the most prominent scenes featuring Pettigrew.... 

 

Unless, of course, it was initially just incidental music written for a Pettigrew scene and the producers or music editors decided to make it Pettigrew's theme.

 

This happens sometimes. No big deal. And who knows, maybe it was intended to be tracked in and the editors could place it where they needed it. I could imagine this being a scene that changed edits a lot. But I highly doubt JW wrote the Pettigrew motif late in the game like you’re implying.

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

If course JW composed the harpsichord motif, and of course he wrote it into many cues. He just didn't intend for it to be in the Shrieking Shack scene . They music editors put it there.

 

Yes, this exactly.

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24 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

But I highly doubt JW wrote the Pettigrew motif late in the game like you’re implying.

 

I didn't imply that. I was merely asking whether that might be the reason why this motif was tracked where it seems logical it would show up in the first place....

 

24 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

And who knows, maybe it was intended to be tracked in and the editors could place it where they needed it. 

 

This strikes me as one possible explanation, yes.

 

Maybe the liner notes will explain it in more detail...  Hopefully! 

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Everyone calls it the Pettigrew motif because that's what it was edited to be (it's even sloppily applied when he turns back into a rat near the end). I think Williams intended for it to be more representative of danger, or evil usage of magic. It's like a sinister version of the Nimbus 2000 theme.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

The harpsichord motif was tracked by the music editors into the Shrieking Shack scene, we've known that since the sheet music leak. 


Didn't know that: I didn't check the leaked sheet music!
Anyway, I poorly explained myself; when I said:

 

3 hours ago, redishere said:

I think it’s clear by now that we’ll have both unused and alternate cues in this set. That unreleased Pettigrew motif we heard for Honeydukes is an example.

 

I was mainly referring to the cue we heard after the harpsichord motif (Map To Snow Scene).

What I meant was, hearing that cue made me realize we'll have a lot of never-heard-before content in this set!

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7 minutes ago, Skelly said:

Everyone calls it the Pettigrew motif because that's what it was edited to be (it's even sloppily applied when he turns back into a rat near the end). I think Williams intended for it to be more representative of danger, or evil usage of magic. It's like a sinister version of the Nimbus 2000 theme.

 

Interesting. Could be, yeah.

 

But without that harpsichord motif in the Shrieking Shack, the score does seem a bit lacking, particularly toward the end of the scene. So either way it was probably the right decision to put that motif in there. 

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8 minutes ago, redishere said:

 

I actually liked how in Art of the Score they explained the way Pettigrew's motif is a sort-of "reverse" version of Sirius' motif.
That makes a lot of sense, since Sirius is seen as the villain at first (and before they mention Pettigrew, there's no trace of his motif).

Yeah that was an interesting observation (one of many in that show).

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's certainly up for personal interpretation, but after working on the set I personally came to think of it as more of a general danger / mystery motif as well. 

 

Williams really only wrote it into Discussing Black, Map To Snow Scene/Up The Stairs, and Reading The Map (that's Mr Weasely talking to Harry, Harry using the map to sneak into Hogsmeade, and Harry using the map to try to find Peter Pettigrew respectively).

 

The music editors tracking it into the Shrieking Shack sequence and the end credits made it feel more like a personal motif .

Another good example of how music editing can actually be used give these musical motifs enhanced meaning outside the original intentions of the composer by applying them systematically to represent something in the film.

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1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

 

Interesting. Could be, yeah.

 

But without that harpsichord motif in the Shrieking Shack, the score does seem a bit lacking, particularly toward the end of the scene. So either way it was probably the right decision to put that motif in there. 

 

Just checked the film. That segment is definitely "Reading the Map" tracked in. Doesn't sound hard to replicate.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Williams really only wrote it into Discussing Black, Map To Snow Scene/Up The Stairs, and Reading The Map (that's Mr Weasely talking to Harry, Harry using the map to sneak into Hogsmeade, and Harry using the map to try to find Peter Pettigrew respectively).

Based on that fact, I'd rather call it the "Sneaking Motif". It's either connected to a sneaking danger or to Harry sneaking somewhere.

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24 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Based on that fact, I'd rather call it the "Sneaking Motif". It's either connected to a sneaking danger or to Harry sneaking somewhere.

 

The question is, though, do we want to call this theme by a name based on the original intentions of Williams, or based on the way it eventually ended up being used in the film (with or without the approval of Williams, although I tend to think it's the former). It was tracked in many scenes, sure, but it could have happened with the approval of Williams, or more, it might have been an idea and afterthought by Williams himself! We just don't know.

 

I'm sure opinions differ. 

 

For the time being, I think I'm gonna continue calling it "Pettigrew's theme"! At least, until we know more.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

The question is, though, do we want to call this theme by a name based on the original intentions of Williams, or based on the way it eventually ended up being used in the film (with or without the approval of Williams, although I tend to think it's the former). It was tracked in many scenes, sure, but it could have happened with the approval of Williams, or more, it might have been an idea and afterthought by Williams himself! We just don't know.

 

I'm sure opinions differ. 

 

For the time being, I think I'm gonna continue calling it "Pettigrew's theme"! At least, until we know more.

 

 

 

I'm sure the booklet might say something about it.

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9 minutes ago, redishere said:

 

That's an interesting question!
As a composer for independent movies, I honestly don't know how to feel about tracking.
Sure, it may help a scene flow better, but it overall seems lazy to rely on cues that aren't written for a specific scene.
But yeah, it happens.

 

Oh yeah. Everyone has different philosophies.

 

I'm totally cool with tracking (as someone who does Editing as well as composing), but I prefer to be involved and help make sure it sounds good. That way if I need to write an overlay or a new opening or something, then I can and it'll help the flow (unlike the above example I gave in my previous post). If I'm involved I can also see if the Director needs a different intention or something for that moment and maybe revise something (if time allows). I always prefer to write something new, but time is time. If there's no time, then go ahead and track it.

 

So sometimes it's lazy, but sometimes it can be useful if there's some last minute changes that will ultimately help the film.

 

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16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Do composers generally approve/know about tracking?

 

I'd imagine so. The first half and very end of "A Tug on the Line" in Jaws is a combination of several chords separated by about 5 seconds of silence. It looks to me as though it was written so that the editors could place those chords wherever they fit in the scene. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am far from an expert on the subject and it very well may have been intended to play exactly as it does.

 

Also, I compose music for trailers and in that business tracking is what you want because the more places your music can go the more you get paid and the more you can put on your resumé.

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