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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - SAMPLES and clips discussion


Jay

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7 minutes ago, redishere said:

he did reuse the Ark theme for a few seconds in the warehouse scene of Indy4.

Well, Indy 4 already apes reuses a ton of one-off setpiece bits from its predecessors, so it's not the greatest example perhaps - I'd bring up Last Crusade, which quotes the Ark likewise when it's shown as a fresco in the Venice catacombs.

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5 minutes ago, redishere said:

he did reuse the Ark theme for a few seconds in the warehouse scene of Indy4.

 

Well, you talked about adapted and cleverly shifted, not 'insertions' which are essentially boring, musically (Williams annoyingly prefers those since the prequels). 

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1 minute ago, publicist said:

 

Well, you talked about adapted and cleverly shifted, not 'insertions' which are essentially boring, musically (Williams annoyingly prefers those since the prequels). 

 

That was me that said that actually. 

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1 minute ago, redishere said:

Right, I keep forgetting it!

Maybe if it was... you know... released or something!

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6 minutes ago, Holko said:

Maybe if it was... you know... released or something!


I'm not familiar with the Indy soundtrack releases, so your comment may have swooshed over my head, but I hear the soundtrack collection was a bit of a mess.
I should probably not lift the lid of this Ark of the Concord (or check related threads and have my face melted off) :D 

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10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

I doubt the Chamber theme would have come back but I like to think Dobby and Fawkes would have gotten token reprisals (not to mention characters/items Williams never got to like Umbridge). I always thought Dobby's theme had a tinge of melancholy that might have worked for his death, slower and appropriately rearranged. "Farewell to Dobby" incidentally shares a brief repeating phrase with Williams's melody which I've always kinda enjoyed/desperately clung to ;)

 

We'd all have criticisms/pedantic nitpicks if JW did the whole thing, whether he overused or underused stuff, but at the very least I think some effective, continuing musical identities for Voldemort/Death Eaters and teen romance would have been much improved. I never expected his fellow composers to dig that deep into the lexicon but too many opportunities were either ignored or reset for my liking, even within their own films! Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows 2 are the only post-Williams entries to carry anything at all over beyond Hedwig's Theme and while "Fireworks" for the Weasley twins is a memorable tie, I like Desplat's Horcrux motif, "Leaving Hogwarts" is appreciated, and I guess even Hooper's "Quidditch Third Year" thing is a nice arbitrary try, it's mostly too little too late.

 

Agreed. Nice catch on Farewell to Dobby btw, I never caught that but it does have a similar phrase! 

 

Yeah I appreciated the times we did get recurring themes even when they weren't Williams, but damn I really wish some more of his themes came back. 

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15 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

Agreed. Nice catch on Farewell to Dobby btw, I never caught that but it does have a similar phrase! 

 

To be fair, I so badly wanted it in there that I was listening for absolutely any passing resemblance but I still fondly remember my first listen :lol: When it kept going over and over I was like "He fuckin did it!!!"

 

 

 

Coincidence to be sure but it's all I've got so I'll take it.

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8 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

To be fair, I so badly wanted it in there that I was listening for absolutely any passing resemblance but I still fondly remember my first listen :lol: When it kept going over and over I was like "He fuckin did it!!!"

 

 

 

It's all I've got but I'll take it.

 

Huh. I actually heard the similarity in a different location:

 

 

It's not as close as it could be, but it sort of resembles the CoS phrase slowed down a lot and played on Violin. 

 

Imagine if it was a closer match though. 😢

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Just now, mrbellamy said:

Either way, I think a more deliberate reference wouldn't have been too much of a stretch from either of these. Might have worked.

 

Pssh. It absolutely would have worked. Not to mention you could've used a much closer to the original version earlier on in DH1 to replace this:

 

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1 minute ago, mrbellamy said:

Well yeah, that's just annoying. 

 

And how about this?

Would a sadder version of Fawke's theme not been more appropriate for this scene (maybe somehow mixed with some Reunion of Friends material)

 

 

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1 minute ago, mrbellamy said:

The Three Note Loop-ish phrase in the thematically appropriate "Destroying the Locket" is another one of those "almost!" Desplat moments.

 

 

 

Desplat is off on legit quotes by one or two notes sometimes. XD

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Actually that reminds me, part of Three Note Loop does literally show up note for note in "Sky Battle," right before Voldy himself shows up.

 

 

You gotta wonder. Although in context, Desplat is really continuing a variation on "Hedwig's Theme" there so I think it's more an example of how cohesive Williams's material was in that first score.

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12 minutes ago, Once said:

For me, it's not only about the themes that could or would have returned. I'm mostly dreaming about all the new material he would have composed. The world of Harry Potter clearly inspired some very great music from Williams and I often find myself wondering how he would have handled set pieces or character themes from 4-8. I'm sure he would've adored Luna Lovegood.

 

Oh yes absolutely! Imagine some legit material for Snape, Umbridge, Malfoy, Slughorn, Horcruxes, etc.

13 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Actually that reminds me, part of Three Note Loop does literally show up note for note in "Sky Battle," right before Voldy himself shows up.

 

 

You gotta wonder. Although in context, Desplat is really continuing a variation on "Hedwig's Theme" there so I think it's more an example of how cohesive Williams's material was in that first score.

 

Is that Three-Note Loop? I thought that was just a subtle Hedwig's Theme statement. Since...that's when she...you know...

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10 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

Is that Three-Note Loop? I thought that was just a subtle Hedwig's Theme statement. Since...that's when she...you know...

 

It is, but that variation happens to be a phrase from Three Note Loop. 

 

 

Which is what I mean when I say Williams's stuff was all of a piece. Another example of that, the little theme people call "Ron's Theme" is also circling around the contour of "Hedwig's Theme" before wandering off on its own trail.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

Is that Three-Note Loop? I thought that was just a subtle Hedwig's Theme statement.


It is Hedwig's Theme (it plays right after Hedwig dies), but it also shares some notes with Three-Note Loop, I just didn't notice it :D 

 

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Great discussion about Fawkes. Let me illustrate further. As some people have pointed out, Fawkes is NOT a character. It is a concept. Fawkes has one and one and only one purpose in COS. It is to facilitate a deux ex machina. A last-minute save for the imperiled hero. Think the eagles in LOTR. 

 

So Fawkes is setup up earlier in the story so that it's return as the deux ex machina is more impactful in the finale. Fawkes should have had an ethereal theme that gave you chills.

 

Perfect example - nature's reclaimantion by Shore. That's a theme that amid dark music comes and provides the hope but is still one with the surrounding music.

 

Now imagine nature's reclaimantion in LOTR and imagine replacing it with a pompous grand waltz. It would be so inappropriate.

 

That's what Williams did in COS. For it's story purpose, the theme is completely wrong.

 

Again, Williams did not put much thought into this and just randomly wrote a concert suite without considering how it applied to the story and what the music was supposed to do.

 

I think something like Williams own patronus like music would have been more appropriate.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Great discussion about Fawkes. Let me illustrate further. As some people have pointed out, Fawkes is NOT a character. It is a concept. Fawkes has one and one and only one purpose in COS. It is to facilitate a deux ex machina. A last-minute save for the imperiled hero. Think the eagles in LOTR. 

 

So Fawkes is setup up earlier in the story so that it's return as the deux ex machina is more impactful in the finale. Fawkes should have had an ethereal theme that gave you chills.

 

Perfect example - nature's reclaimantion by Shore. That's a theme that amid dark music comes and provides the hope but is still one with the surrounding music.

 

Now imagine nature's reclaimantion in LOTR and imagine replacing it with a pompous grand waltz. It would be so inappropriate.

 

That's what Williams did in COS. For it's story purpose, the theme is completely wrong.

 

Again, Williams did not put much thought into this and just randomly wrote a concert suite without considering how it applied to the story and what the music was supposed to do.

 

I think something like Williams own patronus like music would have been more appropriate.

 

 



Really interesting.
I think Fawkes' Theme is not a bad theme by itself, and it still works if you think of it as a motif conveying how Harry feels when Fawkes saves him. It would've been cool to see Williams use that theme and a motif for Fawkes' call, a sort of ethereal cry that fills you with both hope and emotion (yes, the Patronus light example is spot on!)

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2 minutes ago, redishere said:



Really interesting.
I think Fawkes' Theme is not a bad theme by itself, and it still works if you think of it as a motif conveying how Harry feels when Fawkes saves him. It would've been cool to see Williams use that theme and a motif for Fawkes' call, a sort of ethereal cry that fills you with both hope and emotion (yes, the Patronus light example is spot on!)

 

This is a great sentiment. I don't feel like the Fawkes scenes would've been as effective with something like The Patronus Light. I certainly don't think I would've felt the majestic wonder and sincerity behind Fawkes.

 

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3 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

I still totally disagree. Many of you who don't think Fawke's theme is appropriate have referenced it multiple times as seemingly only capable of appearing as, as you say "a pompous grand waltz", which is simply not the case. I'd hardly use that phrase to describe the opening 30 seconds of this cue:

 

I think Chamber just scratched the surface of what this theme could be, and as we've pointed out, it would've been great to hear variations of it moving forward when appropriate (when associated with Fawkes or Dumbledore)

 

 

There is just something in its phrasing, staggered ascending notes that makes it this warm holiday theme.

 

Like I said, the theme has literally one scene where it has do to the heavy lifting and it kinda fails because it doesn't match what's happening at all.

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Just now, TheUlyssesian said:

 

There is just something in its phrasing, staggered ascending notes that makes it this warm holiday theme.

 

Like I said, the theme has literally one scene where it has do to the heavy lifting and it kinda fails because it doesn't match what's happening at all.

 

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this. Lol. I disagree yet again. I think it fits perfectly fine. Can you not hear the underlying sadness in the theme as well? 

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The patronus music is an example, it conveys something mysterious, enigmatic and wondrous happening.

 

Fawkes sounds like kids cheering when United with their family or something. It just has that warm hot chocolate in your hand feel. Fawkes would fit well when saw gryfinndor won the house cup and there is cheering and celebration.

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2 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

This is a great sentiment. I don't feel like the Fawkes scenes would've been as effective with something like The Patronus Light. I certainly don't think I would've felt the majestic wonder and sincerity behind Fawkes.


You're right: what I meant is, it would've been interesting if Williams composed both a theme for Fawkes and one for his cry. So the waltz-y romantic warmth of the first would've matched the most heroic action scenes, and his cry would've worked as a sort of overlay, or underscore for the most heart-wrenching moments. Kinda like the Patronus Light is mixed with A Window To The Past in the Dementors Converge. 

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6 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The patronus music is an example, it conveys something mysterious, enigmatic and wondrous happening.

 

Fawkes sounds like kids cheering when United with their family or something. It just has that warm hot chocolate in your hand feel. Fawkes would fit well when saw gryfinndor won the house cup and there is cheering and celebration.

 

Damn. It's really unfortunate that that is all you hear. I hear majesty, wonder, nobility, sincerity, and as I said in my other post I hear a bit of sadness underneath all that as well. Which is, in my mind, how we're supposed to feel about Fawkes, not just here, but throughout the series as a whole. I'm not hearing the Christmas vibe at all honestly.

 

I love debating music. So interesting. So many different interpretations.

 

5 minutes ago, redishere said:


You're right: what I meant is, it would've been interesting if Williams composed both a theme for Fawkes and one for his cry. So the waltz-y romantic warmth of the first would've matched the most heroic action scenes, and his cry would've worked as a sort of overlay, or underscore for the most heart-wrenching moments. Kinda like the Patronus Light is mixed with A Window To The Past in the Dementors Converge. 

 

Or how Lily's screams in PoA sort almost work with the music when it appears?

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1 minute ago, TSMefford said:

Or how Lily's screams in PoA sort almost work with the music when it appears?


Kind of, yeah! I actually get the Christmas-y vibe @TheUlyssesian feels when listening to Fawkes' Theme, but I think it works fine if you think of it as a theme depicting the way Fawkes makes you feel (joyous, invincible, etc). This is why I thought we'd need something conveying what Fawkes sounds like, and yeah, it could actually work as a blend of SFX and score!



@TSMefford PLOT TWIST: William Ross composed Fawkes' Theme

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13 minutes ago, redishere said:


Kind of, yeah! I actually get the Christmas-y vibe @TheUlyssesian feels when listening to Fawkes' Theme, but I think it works fine if you think of it as a theme depicting the way Fawkes makes you feel (joyous, invincible, etc). This is why I thought we'd need something conveying what Fawkes sounds like, and yeah, it could actually work as a blend of SFX and score!

 

Okay. I can hear it more in the Concert version Williams wrote, but only when it's really at it's fullest rendition. When it's big, happy, and joyous, yes. It does get a bit Holiday-esque. But in the film itself?

 

 

Here, for me, it starts out as Wonder, Beauty, Magic and Majesty. Honestly besides the final time it appears, this is one of the most joyous moments. It's a discovery moment though. Fawkes first appearance. Then around 1:43, it gets slower, still light and lots of Wonder (it's a friggin rebirth scene for crying out loud), but I hear a bit of sadness and melancholy in there as well.

 

I won't waste post space reposting some of the earlier examples, but I just hear more potential and other things in it, I guess. I wish some of you guys heard it too. The feels it gives me is great.

 

I do appreciate the discussion @TheUlyssesian. I've enjoyed looking back at all the renditions of this theme!

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5 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

I won't waste post space reposting some of the earlier examples.

 

Not a waste of space! Talking in depth about all this great music is a lot better than arguing about nonsense,

and it's a good way to kill time while we wait for a certain package to arrive at our doorstep :) 

Anyway, I get what you're saying: I can feel the melancholy you're talking about!

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5 minutes ago, redishere said:

 

Not a waste of space! Talking in depth about all this great music is a lot better than arguing about nonsense,

and it's a good way to kill time while we wait for a certain package to arrive at our doorstep :) 

Anyway, I get what you're saying: I can feel the melancholy you're talking about!

 

tumblr_m5kaiy4TrR1qfggsro3_250.gif

 

Speaking of which...Where’s DUDLEY’S THEME?!

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21 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Fawkes sounds like kids cheering when United with their family or something. It just has that warm hot chocolate in your hand feel. Fawkes would fit well when saw gryfinndor won the house cup and there is cheering and celebration.

 

Well, I think “warm hot chocolate” is a pretty apt description of the films themselves. It’s not like Columbus was creating some dark visual mood piece, which you certainly could out of those first two books. The kind of films he’s chasing here goes along with Christmas trees and families of all ages, so I don’t see that that vibe in Williams’s scores isn’t really gelling with the director’s overall intentions. Rowling’s vision is another story, it’s obviously a common criticism that the early movies and even sometimes the later ones soften the tone of her storytelling.

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