Elders of JWFan, what were the forums like during the Dark Ages (2005 - 2011)?

[Cerebral Cortex 3,365]

It's undeniable. These past few years have been a really good time to be a JWFan, the best in quite a spell. He's back cranking out music for blockbusters again, going back and revisiting previous works with engaging new concert arrangements, and is still making time for a Spielberg flick or two on the side. This isn't even mentioning all the concert works he has continued to put out or all the fantastic album expansions we have received alongside everything else. We've had a consistent new film score featuring new Williams music for 4 years in a row now, something that hasn't happened since 2005. 

And it is that time in particular I'm hoping to revisit, that period between 2005 and 2011 where Williams seemingly went into semi-retirement from film scoring, producing only a single film score in that time. 

I ask you, the Elders of JWFan, how did you survive? What were these forums like during that time? What did you talk about? How did you keep that torch lit, the spirit of discussion alive, not knowing when or if you were going to have a new Williams score to look forward to?

You had to go for so long not really knowing if Williams was starting to close up shop or not, going years without any real scrap of news.  I imagine you waited anxiously for your respite from his 3 years absence with KOTCS only to perhaps walk away disappointed and having to then wait another 3 entire years for a new score. I like KOTCS, sure, but the original 3 Indy scores it is not. At least for me, personally, I thought that perhaps Williams, while still immensely gifted in his craft, had begun to lose that trademark creative spark that so heavily mired his previous decades of work. 

I mean, sure, you had previous albums being released with new unreleased music to look forward to, a new concert piece from Williams here and there, but by and large things were pretty bleak. Did the forums seem equally bleak during this time or have I continued to enrich these forums with my usual hyperbolic spatterings? 
 

[Bespin Copilot 10,738]

In early 90’s my only contact with John Williams was with The Columbia House and their postal suscribing offers. Receive 10 Cd for only 1,99$!

 

Dark ages.... fuck you btw! 😉

[crumbs 15,939]

I fondly remember all the anticipation for KOTCS. It was the sure-fire score of Williams' career. His first score in 3 years so surely it would be brimming with amazing, creative ideas he'd been saving up since TLC. 

 

Then... well... we heard it. 

 

Also, year after year of speculation about him returning to finish Potter, given he wasn't scoring anything else. The excitement reached fevor-pitch when Hooper stepped down "to let the rightful composer finish what he started," complete with JW apparently telling someone at a concert he was hoping to finish the series off. 

 

Then... Desplat happened. 

 

And who could forget all the interrogatory messages about unreleased music in the Indy box set we inundated upon some hapless receptionist at Concord Records (who probably ended up in therapy). 

[Disco Stu 15,517]

I didn't go into KOTCS with unnecessary baggage and can enjoy it for what it is.  Some great highlights, but obviously not reaching the heights of previous entries.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

The dark ages began in 2001 with A.I. but we survived. We still had Indysolo and Justin ( though after the shark attack what was left was....). Potterdom got us through.

[crumbs 15,939]

12 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I didn't go into KOTCS with unnecessary baggage and can enjoy it for what it is.  Some great highlights, but obviously not reaching the heights of previous entries.

 

It's an awful OST though, so much dull, monotonous underscore. Having the sessions has changed perceptions because we can craft a more interesting listening experience with unreleased highlights. 

 

[Xander Harris 9,585]

We mostly theorized about what was happening in the scene in KOTCS where Mutt gives Indy his knife, there's a tearing sound and he says "Oh shit."

[crumbs 15,939]

Worst. Executed. Joke. Ever. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,957]

I always thought it was because Indy dropped the knife

[phbart 707]

I first came to JWFan in 2000 (not the decade, but the year 2000) because of a link to two unreleased tracks from ToD. I went nuts almost. I downloaded it with my dial-up modem at about 3,5kbps. Took forever, of course. I finally opened the mp3 files on Winamp (which I still use) AND... it was a crummy VHS rip with a failed attempt to extract the surround channel. What a disappointment! I promissed never to come back. Yet, here I am. But I didn't join the forum until 2008, when the Indy box was announced... and when a leaked version, a "mock up" of RotLA was made availabe here.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,365]

44 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I always thought it was because Indy dropped the knife

 

The joke is that those were Indy's only pair of pants. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,361]

New guy. Not even a year yet, gosh. Must've been slow then, but here we are now, so thanks folks for sticking through the drought because the harvest has indeed been bountiful.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,908]

Man, I barely even remember this time period. I was a lurker starting at around 2008/2009 and created my account in 2011. I mostly used JWFan for SW prequel spreadsheets/information until like 2012 or 2013.

[Datameister 2,585]

Slow times indeed, although not as slow as Williams' output itself was during that time period. I seem to recall spending a lot of time trying to work out a Revenge of the Sith edit around 2006 or so.

[mrbellamy 8,085]

On 11/29/2018 at 6:16 PM, crumbs said:

Also, year after year of speculation about him returning to finish Potter, given he wasn't scoring anything else. The excitement reached fevor-pitch when Hooper stepped down "to let the rightful composer finish what he started," complete with JW apparently telling someone at a concert he was hoping to finish the series off. 

 

Then... Desplat happened. 

 

That was a big part of why the Potter thing stung more than it should have was that not only was Williams not doing anything else but there was that whole weird series of false hopes. Directors keep rotating so you think maybe another switch will get Williams to come back but then Yates hangs on. Then Hooper actually steps down which was completely unexpected. Then Desplat gets hired but announced only for Part 1. Meanwhile Williams is always saying he’d do it.

 

I wasn’t on here for the most part but Harry Potter is pretty much my memory of that period as a JW fan, plus whatever random Spielberg announcements, news, false starts. I was in high school when Obama was inaugurated and remember Air and Simple Gifts aired during my lunch period so got to see that. Actually don’t have much recollection of my Indy 4 score anticipation. I never bought the OST at the time but after seeing the movie did download Adventures of Mutt, A Whirl Through Academe, and The Jungle Chase off iTunes which all got plenty of listening time that summer. 

[Josh500 1,620]

3 hours ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

We mostly theorized about what was happening in the scene in KOTCS where Mutt gives Indy his knife, there's a tearing sound and he says "Oh shit."

 

I sometimes still wonder about that... Mostly in the wee hours of the morning, when time seems to stretch like taffy....

[Xander Harris 9,585]

The reason I finally joined was because some poster with the username Jack Chapple claimed to have the complete score for Star Wars: Episode III. It was just a crude edit of the OST and the audio track from a bootleg copy of the movie. I think many of us were duped by users claiming to have bootleg music in those years.

[King Mark 3,930]

It was a bad period. No new scores except KoTCS. That was the time when we were looking forward to every new Star Wars videogames to salvage a few seconds of unreleased music for our edits. I think The Prequel Resource Thread was the most busy during those years and what kept some of us going

 

Apart from the badly done Indy box there wasn't much in terms of expanded releases. It was either a straight re-issue like Witches of Eastwick or some 60's score nobody cared about released by FSM, and Williams session never leaked during those times either . Sony Classical kept re releasing the same old SW sets with foldout posters.

[Xander Harris 9,585]

 

Here's the e-mail I composed to Concord Records regarding the Indiana Jones set. Looking back, it seems slightly out of character for me.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,223]

4 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

The dark ages began in 2001 with A.I. but we survived. We still had Indysolo and Justin ( though after the shark attack what was left was....). Potterdom got us through.

 

Poor Justin, I miss him.

[Xander Harris 9,585]

8 minutes ago, King Mark said:

It was a bad period. No new scores except KoTCS. That was the time when we were looking forward to every new Star Wars videogames to salvage a few seconds of unreleased music for our edits. I think The Prequel Resource Thread was the most busy during those years and what kept some of us going

 

Apart from the badly done Indy box there wasn't much in terms of expanded releases. It was either a straight re-issue like Witches of Eastwick or some 60's score nobody cared about released by FSM, and Williams session never leaked during those times either . Sony Classical kept re releasing the same old SW sets with foldout posters

 

Well, many of the classic scores had been reissued in expanded versions the previous decade. There was plenty to listen to, including the 2000s scores which were still relatively recent. There was still this mystique surrounding scores that made it all more fun.

[crumbs 15,939]

Plus he wrote an insane amount of scores between 2001 and 2005. Like 12? So the break wasn't unfounded. 

 

He must have been exhausted after all the ridiculously tight deadlines in 2005. He's done "only" 9 scores in the 13 years that followed! 

[Trent B 354]

3 hours ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

The reason I finally joined was because some poster with the username Jack Chapple claimed to have the complete score for Star Wars: Episode III. It was just a crude edit of the OST and the audio track from a bootleg copy of the movie. I think many of us were duped by users claiming to have bootleg music in those years.

 

I remember that too.

 

I knew it pissed off a lot of us.  Then of course we'd salivate at any new previously unreleased music that surfaced in new games that came out.  

 

I joined I think in 2000.  Got banned a couple of times... I was immature back then and a dip shit so ya.  

[crumbs 15,939]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Poor Justin, I miss him.

 

This is an amazing photograph. Did it inspire the Jaws photo or the other way around? Wow.

[Alan 766]

The LOTR Complete Recordings kept me going for a good chunk of this dark period. The anticipation & release of them followed by Doug's book.

 

It's weird to think how different things are for a JWFan now. Most of the grails are released or coming, with the others seeming like safe bets and brand new scores. Times are good!

[Thor 9,349]

I don't remember that much of a difference compared to now, actually. Then again, I was never as active as others here, so I may not be the best qualified. I have stronger memories of internet activity and messageboards in the late 90s and early 2000s than from 2005 onwards. Guess that would be "Pre-Dark Ages".

[1977 2,106]

14 hours ago, King Mark said:

It was either a straight re-issue like Witches of Eastwick or some 60's score nobody cared about released by FSM...

 

 

[Quintus 6,358]

19 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

It's an awful OST though, so much dull, monotonous underscore. Having the sessions has changed perceptions because we can craft a more interesting listening experience with unreleased highlights. 

 

 

Ya reckon one of these edits could really sell me on this score? I mean, I do like Irina's material, and the Skull motif stuff, but there's also so much boring adventure wallpaper on there too, it's somehow generic Williams that score. 

[crocodile 9,642]

There was a 2005? 

 

Karol

[Xander Harris 9,585]

31 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

Ya reckon one of these edits could really sell me on this score? I mean, I do like Irina's material, and the Skull motif stuff, but there's also so much boring adventure wallpaper on there too, it's somehow generic Williams that score. 

 

I don't think so. KOTCS is boring and generic either way.

[Marian Schedenig 11,618]

"2005" still sounds like the future to me... 

 

I guess that period was the heyday of the Goldsmith expansions, so there still was plenty of music to discover and rediscover.

[Nick Parker 3,049]

4 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

Ya reckon one of these edits could really sell me on this score? I mean, I do like Irina's material, and the Skull motif stuff, but there's also so much boring adventure wallpaper on there too, it's somehow generic Williams that score. 

 

I will say over the years I've come to appreciate those bona fide Indy moments that Williams throws in the score; some in the OST, some beyond. I made a thread on it earlier in the year, but I think of all the main returning forces he was the one who held onto the spirit of the series best.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

I still like KOTCS score. It brings a smile to my face.

[Xander Harris 9,585]

[Disco Stu 15,517]

31 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

I still like KOTCS score. It brings a smile to my face.

 

This is the Joeinar content I’m looking for on JWFan dot com

[King Mark 3,930]

the KotCS sessions are pretty great. OST was badly assembled

 

Same applies to the complete score of RotS vs the OST

[gkgyver 1,647]

KOTC sessions only elongate the pain.

The OST wasn't badly assembled, it just falls off a cliff in the second half. Irina's theme is bland in any setting outside the concert arrangement.

[Xander Harris 9,585]

The man's right.

 

I also think the Episode III OST is good, especially with the improved sound of the Disney version.

 

But this is a very old argument and when it comes to KM, a battle I do not think that we can win. He hates JW's albums.

[Nick Parker 3,049]

Not that this a 100% reason, but I think the performance on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is pretty flat. Strange, since Temple of Doom was performed by Hollywood players, and it sounds so rich and pungent.

[crumbs 15,939]

Yeah that's my largest beef with the score. It's a very flat performance. Understandably much of the writing is uninspired and dull (Williams could only do so much for that film) but from the weird sounding Raiders march onwards something just sounds very mundane about the whole thing (writing, recording and performance). It's night and day when you compare it to the Raiders recording. 

 

It reminds me of hearing Main Title from TFA for the first time, after being so used to the prequel version for over a decade. 

[JoeinAR 1,957]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

Not that this a 100% reason, but I think the performance on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is pretty flat. Strange, since Temple of Doom was performed by Hollywood players, and it sounds so rich and pungent.

Yes but TOD is truly great while KOTCS isn't at that same level. Yet I play it way more that Least Crusade.

[crumbs 15,939]

1 hour ago, JoeinAR said:

Yes but TOD is truly great while KOTCS isn't at that same level. Yet I play it way more that Least Crusade.

 

In what form? There's a pretty great 60 minutes of highlights hidden in those sessions. 

[mahler3 548]

I remember we all got very excited about the final few bars of KOTCS End Credits, but then it died off. There was also confusion as to why ROTS had the Throne Room music included.

 

Some of my most vivid memories is of the banter (or some might say flirting!) between Drax and Hitch! 

 

John Takis did a great write up on Hook, Neil Bulk introduced us to the world of technical soundtrack remastering, Miguel educated us on the JW & Boston Pops fall outs and I spent an insane amount of time compiling a list of all Williams mentions and content on DVDs. Just a few memories from the early 2000s. I was a lurker until about 2001, then Potter exploded! So to speak 🙂

 

Happy days!

[crumbs 15,939]

3 minutes ago, mahler3 said:

There was also confusion as to why ROTS had the Throne Room music included.

 

Just wait until Williams repeats that trick for IX.

[Bespin Copilot 10,738]

This was my internet in 1995. And my nickname was already Bespin!

 

 

I had only these CDs in my JW collection:

 

       

 

    

[phbart 707]

OMG... mIRC! 😍 How many teen nights on weekends I spent there between from 97 to 99. Then came Napster, ICQ... and more and more nights without any sleep. Golden age, perfect times.

 

I only had 3 JW CDs (JP, Spielberg/Williams Collaboration and Phantom Menace), the SW vinyls and RotLA 2 vinyls set. The rest was all mp3... from Napster.

[Bespin Copilot 10,738]

Napster.... don’t know that... 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,223]

Of course you don't.

[Bespin Copilot 10,738]

In those times, we could have ended up in prison for being on Napster!

 

All we were hoping was that they would divide us by music genre.

 

🤣

 

 

[mahler3 548]

13 hours ago, Bespin said:

I had only these CDs in my JW collection:

 

       

 

    

 

If we're talking 1995 I wasn't far off having the same. That SW box set was such a treat to find in an HMV quite unexpectedly, I had to beg my parents for £50!