King Mark 3,631 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 but with PoA we never had illegal access Once and Chewy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 We had a decent OST with all the necessary tracks. It might have even had too much music. Chewy, mstrox, crumbs and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 All 3 HP OSTs reduce their material to a random bunch of loosely connected setpieces. Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 hours ago, The Original said: We had a decent OST with all the necessary tracks. It might have even had too much music. The absence of Sirius' escape, Wormtail's theme, the werewolf chase all disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,688 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 hours ago, The Original said: We had a decent OST with all the necessary tracks. It might have even had too much music. Have you been talking to Thor? PoA is a reasonably well constructed OST but misses off too much good stuff. PS has too much 'inspired by' material from the Children's Suite to feel like a good representation of the score and CoS doesn't feel like it has the 'missing highlights' problem but does suffer from some chronology problems. For those reasons I don't feel the required nostalgic for any of them to keep the original albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 "Chronology problems"? Oh come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,315 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: PoA is a reasonably well constructed OST but misses off too much good stuff. Using up 12 minutes of the OST on that end credits suite is one of Williams' most perplexing soundtrack decisions. Almost 20% of the runtime dedicated to music already featured earlier on the soundtrack, from a relatively brisk ~105 minute score. Bizarre. Chewy, Mr. Who, Once and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I guess that was music from the score he was really proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I'm guessing the excess of shorter cues proved a headache for him once he actually finished recording and had to start assembling tracks. Basically every cue longer than 2 minutes made the OST intact, while a selection of the score's more unique shorter cues were turned into composite tracks to fill out the assembly. Makes the omission of Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack a mild head-scratcher, but clearly a lengthy film cue didn't fit with his mindset for that release (more of a textural representation of the score than one concerned with any semblance of chronology). bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 It's not like Williams made puzzling OST choices in the past or something. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 How can people here call themselves fans of John Williams if they don't like his album edits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, crumbs said: Makes the omission of Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack a mild head-scratcher Perhaps it was recorded too late to be included on the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,688 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Being a fan of his music, and being a fan of his album arrangements, are not the same thing. bollemanneke and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Original said: How can people here call themselves fans of John Williams if they don't like his album edits? They're mostly Zimmer fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, The Original said: How can people call themselves fans of John Williams if they 100% go along with him slanting and trashing his own hard work building up dense and satisfying musical storytelling narratives with leitmotif development and all by excluding more than half of it and switching the order around arbitrarily, even preferring this butchery above the actual original score, sometimes even completely ignoring or writing off some of his best work just because it didn't happen to make it onto the initial limited album and the complete score which does have it doesn't exactly fit their own subjective and arbitrary idea of length and "lustenung expirianc"? Agreed. The nerve of some people here! Mr. Who and Richard Penna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Being a fan of his music, and being a fan of his album arrangements, are not the same thing. They're one and the same. He edits his scores to make them more musical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,363 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Makes the omission of Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack a mild head-scratcher, but clearly a lengthy film cue didn't fit with his mindset for that release (more of a textural representation of the score than one concerned with any semblance of chronology). 37 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Perhaps it was recorded too late to be included on the OST. That cue WAS originally on the OST, then axed at the last minute - The Knight Bus was shortened at the last minute too, it originally opened with some of the Playground music, and didn't loop back on itself at the end like the final version Holko, Once, crumbs and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 We need the originally intended OST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,688 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, The Original said: They're one and the same. He edits his scores to make them more musical. Yes, he does edit his scores to make them more musical (or whatever other interpretation he feels he wants). But we still still prefer a complete presentation. The idea that just because you're a fan of his music that you should love his arrangements too is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Yes, he does edit his scores to make them more musical (or whatever other interpretation he feels he wants). But we still still prefer a complete presentation. The idea that just because you're a fan of his music that you should love his arrangements too is stupid. Think of the missing bits as deleted scenes. All they do is interrupt the flow of the musical narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 Fuck no. Literally all the OST edits do is interrupt the actual flow of the actual score. Mr. Who, Once, Bilbo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: We need the originally intended OST! It leaked years ago now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,688 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, The Original said: How can people here call themselves fans of John Williams if they don't like his album edits? How can people here call themselves fans of John Williams if they think half the score isn't worth listening to? Once, Holko, Mr. Who and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Holko said: Fuck no. Literally all the OST edits do is interrupt the actual flow of the actual score. You wouldn't know about all that missing music if you hadn't let the movie ruin it for you. But the soundtrack album isn't the movie. Often, a lot of music needs to be axed to create a better 40-70 minute flow that represents a concert-like experience. Smaug The Iron and mstrox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 The truth is sometimes Williams makes awesome, spectacular, well-thought out decisions about how to take a long score and craft a great musical album out of it.... and sometimes he doesn't. Anyone who emphatically claims "All Williams OSTs are better than their expanded releases" is equally as nuts as anyone who emphatically claims "All expanded Williams releases are better than their OST albums!" It all depends on the score / album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, The Original said: Often, a lot of music needs to be axed to create a better 40-70 minute flow that represents a concert-like experience. If most of the cues are good enough, I couldn't give less of a shit about a "listening experience". 16 minutes ago, The Original said: if you hadn't let the movie ruin it for you Sorry for viewing a score I love for a film I like in the very specific context for which it was bloody created in the first place. Smaug The Iron, Once and Mr. Who 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 You see, you need to approach OSTs like a concept album. Like it's taking you on a 40+ minute tour of the music. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 And why would I want to do that if I could listen to the real thing? Oh wait, because only the concept bullshit gets released while the actual score rots for decades, that's why. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Holko said: And why would I want to do that if I could listen to the real thing? As opposed to the fake thing? Why such disrespect for the composer's preferred arrangement of the music when it's separated from the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 Why disrespect the composer by pretending half his score and all the work he put into the musical narrative just outright doesn't exist? A lot of OST choices JW made just beg to be disrespected. Bilbo, bollemanneke and Once 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Holko said: Why disrespect the composer by pretending half his score and all the work he put into the musical narrative just outright doesn't exist? That other half of the score was meant for the film and obviously the composer felt it wasn't appropriate for his isolated presentation of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Whatever. Just to be transparent: I really like the Dracula, Schindler and Superman OSTs (also Alien and STTMP for that matter) as an alternate, a nice bonus to the actual scores themselves. For Dracula, even though the complete score has so much more texture and all in it, I may even like the two equally. With Superman I may even slightly prefer it over the complere score and I listened to it a lot to decide whether I want the score or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2019 How CAN people claim the POA OST is an accurate representation of the score?! The most unique and brilliant cues are missing: Honeydukes music box, A Winter's Spell, the pub music, brief snow scene, etc, etc. No, let's repeat the useless end credits suite instead. Also, I just don't understand why people keep going on about 'the composer's album intentions'. ET lasts 40 minutes and HP1 over 70 because the studio allowed him that luxury. So what makes anyone think that JW would never ever want a complete album to be released? Williams doesn't use some magic formula to completely transform a score for the OST and give us a transcedental 'listening experience'/concept album, he just does what he can with the time they allow him to use! Holko, Mr. Who, Faleel and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I don't believe you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,688 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Oh my God, we've got another Thor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, bollemanneke said: he just does what he can with the time they allow him to use! All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Perhaps it was recorded too late to be included on the OST. At one point it was going to be included along with a different version of the night bus. Never mind... Jay already said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 There aren't many Williams OST albums that were assembled before recording sessions had finished. HOOK is certainly the major one. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't believe you! Then I suggest you take extra care. Loss of limb will not excuse you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I’m With Drax™️ Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gkgyver 1,645 Posted June 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2019 Am I the only one who doesn't find the Shrieking Shack cue THAT exciting? Omitting it was a good choice for the flow of the OST. A. A. Ron, Unlucky Bastard and bollemanneke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 9 hours ago, bollemanneke said: How CAN people claim the POA OST is an accurate representation of the score?! The most unique and brilliant cues are missing: Honeydukes music box, A Winter's Spell, the pub music, brief snow scene, etc, etc. No, let's repeat the useless end credits suite instead. Also, I just don't understand why people keep going on about 'the composer's album intentions'. ET lasts 40 minutes and HP1 over 70 because the studio allowed him that luxury. So what makes anyone think that JW would never ever want a complete album to be released? Williams doesn't use some magic formula to completely transform a score for the OST and give us a transcedental 'listening experience'/concept album, he just does what he can with the time they allow him to use! The ET OST is a much more satisfying overall listening experience to the full score. The first one of that I owned was the 2002 edition and I couldn't get into it. But I bought the OST a decade later and fell in love with it. Even Williams knows his full scores don't necessarily work as separate, independent entities - instead, they need some further work so they're better digestible as their own musical works and not some byproduct of another medium. mstrox and Holko 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The original album is obviously the best version for listening purposes. Unlucky Bastard and mstrox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted June 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2019 whaa? we've been waiting 15 years for this holy grail and now people say they like the OST better? Once, Mr. Who, bollemanneke and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Generally OSTs are better than their expanded releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I speak the truth. Expandeds tend to run too long, can be a bit intimidating and impractical to listen to in one sitting, feature redundant tracks and other tracks that interrupt the flow of the composer's preferred musical narrative. But an OST is under no obligation to conform to the film's constraints, so the composer can edit and rearrange it to reflect how he feels it should be presented. And I like the concept album approach, it makes the score it's own thing on album. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Is it at all possible that you just can't be arsed to be intellectually engaged by great scores to discover their structure and narrative devices, and just want some quick shit to put on? bollemanneke and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Hey if Williams feels certain music doesn't suit his overall, holistic album presentation, who am I to argue with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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