Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[crumbs 14,304]

13 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

On a side note, I'm happy Williams has remembered Fawkes' Theme and pulls it out regularly for concerts. But it's so weird that he never includes Azkaban in his concert sequences of 3 pieces from the Potter films.

 

That gorgeous Window to the Past concert suite almost never gets programmed in his concerts. I don't think I've even seen him conduct it!

[Smeltington 1,436]

I've seen Williams many times, heard Hedwig and Harry's Wondrous World most of those times, sometimes with Fawkes and sometimes with one of the Children's Suite pieces ("Quidditch" I think?). But never anything from Azkaban! Hearing the Azkaban score live to picture in Atlanta was amazing after never hearing any of it live before. One of my favorite LTP concerts so far.

[Edmilson 7,397]

But that's usually the case for most of Williams' sequels. We also don't see him conduct the theme for Lost World, or Short Round's theme, in concerts.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Or Jaws 2.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Yeah. He probably believes, rightly, that the first entry in most of these series is the most significant. It's interesting that he includes Fawkes' theme though.

 

We need a Williams-and-not-Spielberg Collaboration album with Window to the Past on it! Or Lockhart volume 2. Or Anne-Sophie Mutter volume 2... they're gonna be digging for more lyrical pieces if that one ever happens.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Or Cinema Serenade 3.

[crumbs 14,304]

23 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

But that's usually the case for most of Williams' sequels. We also don't see him conduct the theme for Lost World, or Short Round's theme, in concerts.

 

Didn't he program something from TOD quite recently? Can't remember if it was Slave Children's Crusade or Short Round's Theme, but it was in the last few years (and he conducted it very slowly, I remember that much).

[pete 906]

34 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

But that's usually the case for most of Williams' sequels. We also don't see him conduct the theme for Lost World, or Short Round's theme, in concerts.

 

I don't know if he performed it since, but The Lost World was performed at the London 1998 concerts, and it was amazing.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

50 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

That gorgeous Window to the Past concert suite almost never gets programmed in his concerts. 

 

Is it the one on the OST? That's a fake concert suite right?

[Jay 37,322]

No he wrote a real concert arrangement of it that's been performed live plenty, and a studio recording by City of Prague is available on various Silva Screen compilations

 

 

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000WGY44A

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B006YZAPVE

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00701QW1S

[Brundlefly 2,385]

3 hours ago, TSMefford said:

Chamber has a tendency to feel a bit like a roller coaster at times.

The film not at all, the soundtrack of course.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

It's subversive.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

But that's usually the case for most of Williams' sequels. We also don't see him conduct the theme for Lost World, or Short Round's theme, in concerts.

A shame. These three darker sequel scores are my three favourite Williams scores in general.

 

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's subversive.

No, but the film's structure is better than that from the first film.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

I was talking about the score.

[Smeltington 1,436]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

Didn't he program something from TOD quite recently? Can't remember if it was Slave Children's Crusade or Short Round's Theme, but it was in the last few years (and he conducted it very slowly, I remember that much).

 

Yes, he revived Parade of the Slave Children in the last few years, which was a nice surprise.

[TSMefford 1,509]

31 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

The film not at all, the soundtrack of course.

 

Right. 

 

You know, in spite of all of this, I believe I recall the Chamber of Secrets OST getting a lot of playtime from me when it first came out. I seemed really drawn to it for some reason, but never ended up diving in too deep as I did with 1 and 3. But again, the OST got played A LOT. Then 3 came along and stole all the playtime again. Lol.

[Alex 2,833]

I wish he’d get Aunt Marge’s Waltz out for a concert.

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

Here some covers I ve made !

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

They look very nice, but here's one thing. You chose the Hogwarts Express for film one which seems to be an essential part of the story, as is the entrance to the Chamber of Secrets. The Knight Bus, however, is it that fundamental for the third film? Maybe there's a more prestigious motif?

 

On the other hand, you could make another one for film two - the Flying Car - and then each cover shows the most recent mean of transportation of the franchise.

[Holko 9,499]

Yeah, I was thinking of that too - either Ford Anglia for 2 or something like the clocktower of the time-turner itself for 3?

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

I know what you mean, unfortunately I have to work with what I have and there s no such design available for the time turner or the flying car.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

It looks great, Donor!

[crumbs 14,304]

1 hour ago, Orgasm[+]Donor. said:

I know what you mean, unfortunately I have to work with what I have and there s no such design available for the time turner or the flying car.

 

It's such a cool design too!

 

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Maybe a little more variation between the font colour? Silver for the third cover?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

9 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Maybe a little more variation between the font colour? Silver for the third cover?

 

Make your own design!

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

Just added Harry Potter 4, while not being part of the LLL expanded scores I might as well do the rest.

[crlbrg 381]

They look great!

 

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

Harry Potter 5 added!

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

Harry Potter 6 added !

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

Harry Potter 7 Added !

[Holko 9,499]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:19 PM, Holko said:

So what makes Chamber kind of a chore to listen to in places?

Volume II: How to fix it?

 

As we can see, the worst offenders are blocks 1, 2 and 3.

 

3 is easily fixed by just using all my tracked music restorations, it fills in the gaps and gives a much more well-rounded finale.

 

1: I don't see much to do early on, I removed Borgin&Burkes (vastly just old material anyway, nothing lost there), Knockturn Alley covers its darkness too then moves quicker into more interesting material. One could even remove Flourish and Botts/Harry Meets Lucius Malfoy to make it even snappier, the Lucius motif adds nothing here (or in the whole score) and the Lockhart introduction is not unique at all.

 

2: Cornish Pixies and Eat Slugs can both get right out as unoriginal not very well looped bits, we immediately meander less, get to the lovely Hermione and Hagrid and the real plot a lot quicker.I also removed The Dueling Club: sad about the Lockhart variations but other than those all the cue does is stop everything for a little meandering unimportant start and stop noise. The tracked Harry is a Parselmouth in front of the recorded one helps patch it over.

 

The tracked Diary cue also improves the lead into Meeting Tom Riddle. Oh, also use the alternate Prologue and Petrified Colin in place of the main program ones for more diversity.

 

Still unsure about what to do with the early Privet Drive/Dobby stuff, but other than that, after a test listen, it immediately feels a lot less meandering and weird and a lot more focused on the Chamber stuff, the real plot and drive with less to drag it down.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Although I would do 3 immediately, I would never ever think of doing 1 and 2. Using the alts in the main program is an interesting idea, though.

[TSMefford 1,509]

Same. I don’t really have any issues with COS anyways. Im certainly removing anything from my program. Interesting thing to try though. I do need to get all the tracked material in though. Still haven’t done that.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Yeah, same. I keep doing it and then keep losing/losing interest in my edit.

[Orgasm[+]Donor. 75]

The HARRY POTTER Scores: Book Cover Style Edition.

 

And I also take the opportunity of sharing a set I did a while ago !

[TSMefford 1,509]

Nice!

[ragoz350 450]

Hello.
Recently, I found interesting details in the POA score, in particular, the scene with Harry's unsuccessful call of a patronus on the lake (6M5AN First Frozen Lake). The first version of this music (which is in the score) has several references to the scene where Harry and Hermione are watching this (7M4). I also found that the music at the moment when Harry sees someone summoning the Patronus in the score looks a little different than "The Patronus Power" (track on LLR-disc) - the version on the disk is expanded (several measures are repeated and a new chorus chord is added at the end). As a result, I decided to make a list of differences and references:

 

First Version

1) A choral episode overlapping on top of the next part (track "The Dementor Circle" on LLR-disc)
→Refernce in 7M4: (given on the track "Watching the Past (Alternate)" on LLR-disc) 0:08-0:15 and 0:26-0:39
2) partial repetition of 2M4 (left in the final version)
→Refernce in 7M4: 0:40-0:56
3) Silent suspense-part - Harry tries to call the patronus several times (the scene is cut from the film and from music)
4.1) action-part - the first half (it was cut in final version)
→Refernce in 7M4: the horns motif and wind passage are repeated - 1:06-1:10 (see pictures in spoiler below)
4.2) action-part - the second half (left in the final version)
5) the quiet part (completely replaced in the final version,in this version it sounds more intense)
6) Harry sees someone's patronus (old version of "The Patronus Power")
7) The final part (completely replaced in the final version)

 

Spoiler

left picture - 6M5, right picture - 7M4

 

 

 

 

 

Second Version

An insert with an expanded version of the 6^th part is added - several measures are repeated and the last chorus chord is added. It also seems that the high tremolo for violins and passages for clarinets have been removed, the music sounds more clearly and loudly (the nuance mezzopiano is indicated in the score, but the music sounds louder on the recording).

 

Third Version (sounds in the movie)

1) The choral episode is replaced by one long note by the choir (not on the disc)
2) The part with partial repetition of 2M4 is completely saved (0:00-0:47 on the track "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)")
3) cut out, only the first measure with a long note of violins is left (0:47-0:49)
4.1) cut out
4.2) saved, but removed the chimes (0:50-1:02)
+4.3) a new part with dramatic choir chords (1:02-1:21) was added to the free space
5) new material, this version at the beginning sounds like it is the end of the scene)) (1:21-1:49)
6) Patronus, taken material from 7M4 - it was originally supposed that this music should have sounded when Harry himself summons him in the second scene. But small changes were made - more pathos choral chords and a faster tempo (1:49-2:25)
7) the final part is also completely replaced. However, in the end, upward synth sounds are saved, but in a different tonality (2:25-end).

 

UPD: I made a mockup of the first version (here). I hope that what I wrote will be more clear now.

 

[Holko 9,499]

Do we know writing/recording dates from the sketches or sheets or some list?

I just can't imagine why Dementors Converge earlier version would have WttP but Watching the Past earlier version wouldn't unless that Watching alternate was written first, then perhaps revised to include WttP and be more climactic, then the new Converge written to reflect that, then new new Converge rewritten to remove WttP and make small changes to the brass and timing.

[ragoz350 450]

47 minutes ago, Holko said:

Do we know writing/recording dates from the sketches or sheets or some list?

I just can't imagine why Dementors Converge earlier version would have WttP but Watching the Past earlier version wouldn't unless that Watching alternate was written first, then perhaps revised to include WttP and be more climactic, then the new Converge written to reflect that, then new new Converge rewritten to remove WttP and make small changes to the brass and timing.

I think that the alternate version of the Dementor Converge, presented on the LLR disc, is actually the final version, in which they inserted a fragment of one of the earlier versions of Watching the Past. Most likely, Watching the Past didn't have a WttP theme at first (this version on the disc is called "Watching the Past (Alternate)"), then they decided to insert a WttP theme there so that the music would sound more "friendly." Then, probably, the creators revised both scenes, and moved this musical fragment to the first scene, again removing the theme of WttP from there (otherwise it would be a kind of spoiler), and changing it a little. And in the second scene, in the final version, new musical material is heard, in which the WttP theme was successfully inserted, and it sounds good.

[ragoz350 450]

Still, it’s a shame that due to changes in Dementor Converge, the "Easter eggs" from Williams broke down. He purposely wrote a motif for horns and winds to be repeated in Watching the Past. In the first scene (Dementor Converge) motif was supposed to sound immediately as soon as Harry was unable to summon Patronus. And in the second scene (Watching the Past) after the repeated sounding of this motive, Harry immediately yells EXPECTO PATRONUM. It turns out that according to the logic of Williams, the "second" Harry summons Patronus right at the moment when the "original" Harry is attacked by dementors. Very interesting.
On the first clip - the motive from the first scene, which was cut in the final version.

On the second clip - the motif from Watching the Past.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

I think Jay mentioned he had the recording dates for all three scores...

[Jay 37,322]

The recording dates for all three scores are in the LLL booklet.

 

I never claimed to have any date information beyond that

[mrbellamy 6,272]

The whole gestation of Window to the Past in this score is confusing to me. I can't remember if this has already been settled here and I don't think it was addressed in MM's notes. The use of that theme and how it develops is one of my favorite things about it, it seems like such an obvious thematic choice and grows so organically in the film. It's always felt like one of those things that would have come out of the spotting...

 

...and yet virtually every early version of its cues was later rewritten or had an insert to include WttP -- Remembering Mother, Walk in the Woods, Dueling the Dementor, Sirius and Harry, My Dad Conjured the Patronus, Watching the Past -- I mean, is that everything except Sirius Final Scene? And Parent's Portrait, I guess, though I could see that being a later addition too. Maybe there was no score there originally....I don't know if there's evidence for that.

 

But was it just a one-off for the finale that they decided at some point needed to be everywhere? When did they come up with that? It was late enough that these were fully orchestrated. There's that similar, alternate melody that shows up in both the early Remembering Mother and Dueling the Dementor that ended up getting cut entirely. Also the fact that the "Window to the Past" track is a stitch job. Plus the apparent debacle when Williams was given the wrong cut, did that have anything to do with it? It's weird to me. I don't know how many other examples there are of a major Williams theme starting out with barely any presence like this. 

 

[Jay 37,322]

Great questions I wish we had the answers to!

[Smeltington 1,436]

Solving all these crazy riddles I think is a key part of what keeps us all here discussing the music... and not just listening to it!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

Plus the apparent debacle when Williams was given the wrong cut

?!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Came from here

[ragoz350 450]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

But was it just a one-off for the finale that they decided at some point needed to be everywhere? When did they come up with that? It was late enough that these were fully orchestrated. There's that similar, alternate melody that shows up in both the early Remembering Mother and Dueling the Dementor that ended up getting cut entirely. Also the fact that the "Window to the Past" track is a stitch job. Plus the apparent debacle when Williams was given the wrong cut, did that have anything to do with it? It's weird to me. I don't know how many other examples there are of a major Williams theme starting out with barely any presence like this. 

If you look at the script (here), you can see that the scene of rescue Sirius was completely different. The scene was longer, with Snape and Fudge participating. Perhaps at an early stage it was decided that this scene should be edited in a different way, but the creators didn't yet know how. And John Williams at this stage didn't write music for these scenes at all (including the final dialogue between Sirius and Harry). When these scenes were ready, it was already decided to use the WttP theme wherever possible. So I think.

[Edmilson 7,397]

I'm glad they used more Window to the Past though, it's a wonderful theme and the true heart of this score.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Of course, it really ties the score together.

 

36 minutes ago, ragoz350 said:

If you look at the script (here), you can see that the scene of rescue Sirius was completely different. The scene was longer, with Snape and Fudge participating. Perhaps at an early stage it was decided that this scene should be edited in a different way, but the creators didn't yet know how. And John Williams at this stage didn't write music for these scenes at all (including the final dialogue between Sirius and Harry). When these scenes were ready, it was already decided to use the WttP theme wherever possible. So I think.

 

Could be, unless those pages were already reworked during filming. Lord knows.