ragoz350 450 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 I still think that original The Dementor Converge (which we don't have) and old Watching the Past (which is "alternate") were recorded at the early stage. Then, the director (or someone else) realized that these scenes looked strange with this music (and apparently the problem was not only with the music), and tried to fix it: in the Dementor Converge, the moment when the Patronus disperses the dementors was expanded, and a new insert The Patronus Power was recorded, which was longer. And at the same time, a horn overlay (with WttP theme) was recorded for the second half of Watching the Past to make the music sound more "friendly" and less dramatic. But after these changes, the music still sounded strange, and then it was decided to almost completely rewrite The Dementor Converge, and move the second half of Watching the Past there, with a faster tempo and modified choral chords. As for The Patronus Light, here I can only turn on the conspiracy: the track was originally recorded for the OST album (not for the movie), and then, when the mentioned changes took place, it was decided to use this track in the film: they shortened it and recorded a new choral layer and a WttP layer to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 So, yeah, we really need Jay's spreadsheet. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,404 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 And a cue list with dates! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 We have no idea what the recording dates are for the individual cues in this score, unfortunately I'll look into the other question(s) after work some time TSMefford, bollemanneke, Chewy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smeltington 1,420 Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 We can all take it in shifts to moderate the forum until Jay's spreadsheet is ready. bollemanneke, crumbs and TSMefford 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TSMefford 1,509 Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Chewy said: Almost 2 years since the set came out and we're still making discoveries! Excellent post Chewy Lots of cool info. As an audio guy I really appreciate the phase cancellation to isolate the horns. Awesome stuff. Holko, Chewy and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 OK this probably looks like a complicated explanation, but in the end it's actually fairly straightforward. So basically we're talking about the two times in the film the Patronus charm successfully saves Sirius from the Dementors; the first time when Harry observes a mysterious figure doing it then passes out, and the second time when Harry realizes it was his future self he saw and successfully pulls it off himself. The cue for the first scene is 6M5AN First Frozen Lake. This cue is presented as recorded on the LLL CD as Disc 2 track 1 "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" The cue for the second scene is 7M4 Watching The Past. This cue is presented as recorded on the LLL CD as Disc 2 track 21 "Watching The Past (Alternate)" The interesting thing about these two cues is of course that neither cue uses Window To The Past theme for the big Patronus moment; Each cue's climax is a similar passages of aggressive choir, rising strings, and horn triplets, but no thematic material. At some point, someone decided that it made sense to use the Window To The Past theme for successful usage of the Patronus Charm. I have no idea if this was before or after 4M14N The Dementor was recorded or not (the only version of 4M14 recorded that we know of), but we know from a sheet music leak that the original version of 4M14 Dueling The Dementor didn't use the Window To The Past theme either. Anyway, for these two frozen lake moments, Williams didn't record a revision or insert synced to anything specific onscreen, a wild recording was made containing the past theme on horns with a calm choir backing. I don't know what Williams' title was for this cue, but this is the cue Mike referred to in the liners as the "pre-recorded version of the Patronus music". For the rest of this post I'll just called it "the Patronus Insert" Cuaron decided for the film itself to keep First Frozen Lake as it was, but then use the Patronus Insert the second time around during Watching The Past when Harry realizes his potential and successfully performs the spell, saving the thematic statement for when the hero saves the day, and paralleling when it playing during the first time her performed it when training with Lupin. The choices Williams then made for the OST album are then what really muddied the waters. Here we get a version of First Frozen Lake where the climax is replaced by the horn recording from the Patronus Insert along with some hodgepodge of other edited elements, and he named the track "The Dementors Converge". We don't know whether the Patronus Insert appears here because at one point Cuaron was going to use it at both spots in the film, or if this is just something Williams did for the album on his own. Watching The Past is also included on the OST - with the climax replaced by the Patronus Insert like Cuaron did in the film - as the first cue inside a track he titled "Finale". Finally, he included just the choir element of the Patronus Insert on the OST as well, in a track he titled "The Patronus Light". The main program of the LLL album follows what the film does, and features First Frozen Lake as it was recorded (which had to be titled "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" because of Williams' OST decisions), and Watching The Past with the Patronus Insert in place of the original climax was included inside a track called "Buckbeak Saves The Day / Watching The Past" (which also includes the ticking clock overlay over part of the cue). Then the non-film-versions of First Frozen Lake and Watching The Past were included in the bonus track section, along with "The Patronus Light" So, to sum up What was recorded 6M5AN First Frozen Lake 7M4 Watching The Past "The Patronus Insert"; The Window To The Past Theme on horns with a choir backing, with the horn and choir elements recorded separately What the film does 6M5AN First Frozen Lake plays as recorded 7M4 Watching The Past has the climax replaced by the Patronus Insert What Williams did for the OST album Track# 15 "The Patronus Light" is a presentation of JUST the choir element of the Patronus Insert Track #19 "The Dementors Converge" is 6M5AN First Frozen Lake, except the climax has been had been replaced by the horn statement of the WTTP theme from Patronus Insert mixed into other things {including apparently some material from 7M4's original climax} from 1:45-2:33 or so Track #20 "Finale" is 7M4 Watching The Past with the climax replaced by the Patronus Insert at around 1:13, which is crossfaded into 7M6 Sirius' Final Scene What the LLL main program does Disc 2 track 1 "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" is 6M5AN First Frozen Lake as recorded, premiering clean what we heard in the film Disc 2 track 4 "Buckbeak Saves The Day / Watching The Past" is 7M3 Buckbeak Saves The Day followed by 7M4 Watching The Past, which has its climax replaced by the Patronus Insert, like in the film (and also, the tick-tock element appears at various points throughout the whole track) What the LLL bonus tracks are Disc 2 track 21 "Watching The Past (Alternate)" is 7M4 Watching The Past as originally recorded, premiering the original unused and never-before-heard climax and its unique denouement Disc 2 track 23 "The Patronus Light" is OST track #15 directly from the album master Disc 2 track 25 "The Dementors Converge" is OST Track #19 directly from the album master I hope that makes sense to everyone and answers all the questions! fommes, Molly Weasley, bollemanneke and 7 others 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,404 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Whew! Almost. As Chewy's second clip shows, Watching the Past's Patronus Insert isn't really *just* The Patronus Light with horns, it has more choral elements. Or is it just a very different mix? Also, the horn part on Watching the Past and the OST Converge aren't the same. Or... holy crap, it's just edited and very sped up, isn't it? And this means the booklet is still incorrect in referring to Dementors Converge as the prerecorded insert when it only uses the horn part sped up? Also, above it refers to Patronus Power as "intended for when Harry first learns to summon the powerful charm", which sounds like it's referring to the first lesson and the cue title (Summoning the Patronus) when now we've now heard mockups that show it's an early version of Dementors Converge (Patronus Insert?) Still, thank you very much for that explanation, it does make things clearer! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Thanks, Jay, that was an impressive explanation! One slightly related question: Why did Mike have to use the album master for certain tracks? Or rather, why would album material not be included in the archives he got from WB and the editors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Sorry to throw another question at you @Jay but how does The Dementors Circle (LLL D2T22) fit into all this? Just more wild choral recordings to be used wherever required? It's a really nice touch that 3 of these wild choral pieces were included on the LLL, perfectly sequenced too! Were there any other wild choral elements you wanted to include on the set but had to cap it at 3? Shame you couldn't include a clean version of the Quidditch choral overlay anywhere; we could've phased it out of that track to replicate the orchestra-only film version. 7 hours ago, Holko said: Also, above it refers to Patronus Power as "intended for when Harry first learns to summon the powerful charm", which sounds like it's referring to the first lesson and the cue title (Summoning the Patronus) when now we've now heard mockups that show it's an early version of Dementors Converge (Patronus Insert?) Vaguely recall that mockup... do you remember who posted it? But essentially you're saying The Patronus Power (LLL D2T24) was actually an early alternate for The Patronus Insert (LLL D2T04)? The making of this score seems incredibly convoluted Such a shame that a recording schedule with a breakdown of all cues and dates wasn't uncovered. How can documentation like that just go missing? Surely Shawn Murphy or someone associated with the production held onto material like that? Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,404 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, crumbs said: Vaguely recall that mockup... do you remember who posted it? On 9/13/2020 at 9:59 PM, ragoz350 said: The Dementor Converge - Original version Perhaps the most interesting mockup. Here it is interesting to see how much the dramaturgy (uh) of this scene has changed. It is noteworthy that the moment with Harry's attempts to summon the Patronus is cut. Also interesting is the moment with the successful patronus at the end - musically it feels like a kind of vision through a dream (in the score the maximum dynamics is mezzopiano), but we only have a recording of a newer insert, where the sound is louder and clearer. The ending is shorter, I had to delete one frame with Harry. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Thanks @Holko and @ragoz350! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 11 hours ago, Holko said: Whew! Almost. As Chewy's second clip shows, Watching the Past's Patronus Insert isn't really *just* The Patronus Light with horns, it has more choral elements. Or is it just a very different mix? I'm guessing there were two choral layers recorded to make up the insert, and "The Patronus Light" OST track is just one of those layers. Quote Also, the horn part on Watching the Past and the OST Converge aren't the same. Or... holy crap, it's just edited and very sped up, isn't it? Yes the OST version of First Frozen Lake (The Dementors Converge) seems to have a lot of digital trickery happening in the section that differs from how the cue was recorded. Quote And this means the booklet is still incorrect in referring to Dementors Converge as the prerecorded insert when it only uses the horn part sped up? The booklet says that tracks "features" the insert, not that it IS the insert. And it's accurate; The horns recorded for the insert are in there, instead of how the cue was originally recorded. Quote Also, above it refers to Patronus Power as "intended for when Harry first learns to summon the powerful charm", which sounds like it's referring to the first lesson and the cue title (Summoning the Patronus) when now we've now heard mockups that show it's an early version of Dementors Converge (Patronus Insert?) I don't follow everything you say here. How can there be a mockup made of The Patronus Power, when that cue wasn't in the sheet music leak? And if it was, why would anybody need to mock it up, since it's on the LLL CD? Do you just mean a video someone made taking that LLL track and putting it in the First Frozen Lake scene? If so, where is that video? I scanned back over the past few pages and didn't see anything like that. The Patronus Power is a weird cue; it was labeled as an insert for 5M5. Since 5M5 is The Crystal Ball, I assume it's a typo and they meant 6M5, though really the First Frozen Lake scene is 6M5A, but close enough. So yes, I believe it's an unused insert for First Frozen Lake, and I guess the wrong cue got mentioned in the liners and I didn't catch it when proofreading. Sorry! Quote Still, thank you very much for that explanation, it does make things clearer! 7 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Thanks, Jay, that was an impressive explanation! One slightly related question: Why did Mike have to use the album master for certain tracks? Or rather, why would album material not be included in the archives he got from WB and the editors? I have no idea why the official archives were missing bits and bobs >shrug< However since they were, he used the album master where he had to. The end result on our final redbook 16/44.1 2.0 CDs is the same anyway, but it is a bummer the official 192/24 5.1 archive is missing stuff. If we decided to wait for the missing material to be found, the box set might still not be in your hands, so I think it was smart to use the album master to fill in the gaps. 4 hours ago, crumbs said: Sorry to throw another question at you @Jay but how does The Dementors Circle (LLL D2T22) fit into all this? Just more wild choral recordings to be used wherever required? Yea. No indication it was intended for any specific spot. Quote It's a really nice touch that 3 of these wild choral pieces were included on the LLL, perfectly sequenced too! Were there any other wild choral elements you wanted to include on the set but had to cap it at 3? None that I'm aware of Quote Shame you couldn't include a clean version of the Quidditch choral overlay anywhere; we could've phased it out of that track to replicate the orchestra-only film version. The official archives have the chorus in there like the album, and like how Williams intended. Neither a version without chorus, or the chorus in its own track, was included. Quote Vaguely recall that mockup... do you remember who posted it? But essentially you're saying The Patronus Power (LLL D2T24) was actually an early alternate for The Patronus Insert (LLL D2T04)? The making of this score seems incredibly convoluted I'm guessing the Patronus Power is an unused insert only ever intended for First Frozen Lake, and "the Patronus Insert" was seemingly recorded as a wild option for either scene but could have been recorded only for Watching The Past in mind (and then Williams stuck the horn part in First Frozen Lake on the OST album for unknown reasons) Quote Such a shame that a recording schedule with a breakdown of all cues and dates wasn't uncovered. Seriously! Quote How can documentation like that just go missing? I have no idea! It highlights the pitfalls of the digital era of recording and archiving, though. Quote Surely Shawn Murphy or someone associated with the production held onto material like that? Mike spent considerable time trying to get the right people at WB and any one who worked on the score at the time to see what they had and no one had anything. In the end, it's not like we didn't have enough material to make an awesome 2CD set, and if it wasn't for sheet music leaks, we wouldn't have all this knowledge of "missing" stuff. Hopefully some day the 1st gen tapes are found and transferred and a new 3CD set can be built from scratch, but I have no idea how likely that scenario is. crumbs, Holko, Once and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,404 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jay said: I don't follow everything you say here. How can there be a mockup made of The Patronus Power, when that cue wasn't in the sheet music leak? And if it was, why would anybody need to mock it up, since it's on the LLL CD? Do you just mean a video someone made taking that LLL track and putting it in the First Frozen Lake scene? If so, where is that video? I scanned back over the past few pages and didn't see anything like that. I assume by now you'd have seen it but I quoted ragoz350's mockup video on this page for crumbs. It's not 1:1 Patronus Power as on the LLL but close. He also has mockups of earlier versions of Summoning the Patronus and those are not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 I only just saw that video, but isn't it LLL tracks synced to footage? "Mockup" is only used to describe someone making a synth audio file from sheet music There definitely isn't a single file in the sheet music leak that equals what "The Patronus Power" is, but it's certainly possible JW re-used something from an older cue when making "The Patronus Power". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,404 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 You... watched the entire thing, right? He only uses parts of the LLL where I assume the sheet music didn't change between versions, the rest, where it did, is definitely synth intruments. You can ask him about his source for the sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 Earlier versions of 4M14 were certainly in the sheet music leak, which is how those were able to be mocked up, but the only one we know was recorded was the 4M14N which is both in the film and on the LLL CD. As for that video, I only checked it out briefly and now I am completely confused now what it is and he'll have to explain precisely to us how he made it When it comes to first frozen lake, the older version seen in the sheet music leak is called 6M5 Pt. 2, but the only version of that cue we know was recorded was 6M5AN First Frozen Lake, plus presumably "The Patronus Power" if we assume it that was definitively written as an alternate ending to that cue specifically and not as a "wild" option for any use TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I made my own mockup according to the handwritten score, and inserted in some places fragments from the LLL-recordings that are present in the score. About 70% of this video is still my mockup :-) Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 Can you elaborate and be more precise? Which sheet music? What is the cue number and name? Is it all taken from one cue, or multiple? At what timestamps does one thing change to another thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Earlier versions of 4M14 were certainly in the sheet music leak, which is how those were able to be mocked up, but the only one we know was recorded was the 4M14N which is both in the film and on the LLL CD. As for that video, I am completely confused now what it is and he'll have to explain precisely to us how he made it When it comes to first frozen lake, the older version seen in the sheet music leak is called 6M5 Pt. 2, but the only version of that cue we know was recorded was 6M5AN First Frozen Lake At 4M14, I found 2 versions in the leaked h/w score (original "Dueling the Patronus" and insert "Insert for Patronus Light"). In the film, apparently, the second version of this insert sounds, which I did not find in the h/w score. So I made 2 mockups of these 2 versions (original + old insert) from the h/w score. About The Dementor Converge, this is 6M5 Pt. II. Somewhere I used fragments from LLL-recordings, somewhere I did something myself (I also shortened the moment with The Patronus Power a little (according to the score) and added at a very quiet volume the high tremolo of violins and the part of clarinets, which are also in the score, but are not audible on LLL-record). I don't think there is anything in "my" leaked score that is not in the main leak. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 Yea, there's only one sheet music leak. 6M5 Pt. II is an early version of First Fozen Lake that we only know about because of the sheet leak. The film and both albums use 6M5AN First Frozen Lake So to be clear: The video we are talking about is your version of 6M5 Pt 2, made via a blend of your own mockups and pieces from the LLL album, when something on the LLL album matched what you saw in the sheets? Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 He uses one of the first frozen lake cues. Check Data's edit too, he mocked up the same passage in the bonus section and it most definitely sounds like it was inspired by Patronus Power. When you say ‘wait for the material to be found’, do you mean that people are still looking as we speak? Any chance you could post the archive cue names for the three movies at some point? I am really curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: He uses one of the first frozen lake cues. Check Data's edit too, he mocked up the same passage in the bonus section and it most definitely sounds like it was inspired by Patronus Power. Yea, we've known about 6M5 Pt 2 since the sheet music first leaked however many years ago (10+?) and mockups made by fans have existed ever since I just got completely confused by what Holko was trying to say about "the Patronus Power" track, further confusion caused by ragoz350 not putting in the description of his video the exact name of which sheet music file he used to make it Quote When you say ‘wait for the material to be found’, do you mean that people are still looking as we speak? I have no idea. Well above my paygrade Quote Any chance you could post the archive cue names for the three movies at some point? I am really curious. Hopefully! bollemanneke and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Any chance you could post the archive cue names for the three movies at some point? I am really curious. I'll second this request. I'm curious too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 @Jay Are you sure Patronus Insert and Patronus Light are the same take? They have a considerably different orchestration and lenght. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 43 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: @Jay Are you sure Patronus Insert and Patronus Light are the same take? They have a considerably different orchestration and lenght. I don't think he said they were? Patronus Insert is the underlying cue heard in OST Finale and LLL Watching the Past, with excerpts of The Patronus Light (which was a wild recording not tied to footage) mixed over the top as an overlay/sweetener, along with a separately recorded horn overlay. It's not used in the film in its entirety, only excerpts. The uncut, wild recording is only heard in the standalone track The Patronus Light. @Chewy was able to verify the takes used are identical by phasing the tracks, it's just cut + pasted in the film. There's no "clean" version of Patronus Insert available on any release (and it seems even Mike didn't have access to it because the OST track Finale was used for that section on the LLL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 4 hours ago, crumbs said: excerpts of The Patronus Light Okay, so that explains why Patronus Insert is much shorter than Patronus Light. I honestly start to wonder, whether there could be a load of actually recorded alternates lying hidden in a vault somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 Oh, I'm pretty sure there is! Once and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Why do you think that? I have no idea how many other leaked sheets of other scores show unrecorded alternates, but isn't it possible that those HP3 alternates were just drafts that were considered too bad to record? Also, why did they not look at the tapes for this score? Budget reasons? I think I would have done it had I been aware of all the alternates I might find there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 19, 2020 Sometimes sheet music leaks reveal cues that were never recorded, like Empire of The Sun, AI, or Superman. Typically these are just sketches, like they knew they didn't need it before anyone spent time orchestrating it. But with HP3 the sheer number of fully orchestrated sheets in the leak, combined with all the talk of the evolving score, themes that changed, etc, makes me think it's likely these old versions were recorded. But who knows! We have no way of knowing. I have no idea why things weren't found >shrug< TSMefford, bollemanneke, Once and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 25, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2020 Well, I did it. I resumed work on the Azkaban google doc tonight. Got through "Buckbeak's Flight and the Marader's Map" Man I forgot how much of a pain all that Boggarts music was... Smaug The Iron, CGCJ, bollemanneke and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 588 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 A completely other question about the Box: Why doesn't it include the Orchestra member credits? Usually the expanded versions list the orchestra members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 3:54 PM, Jay said: But with HP3 the sheer number of fully orchestrated sheets in the leak, combined with all the talk of the evolving score, themes that changed, etc, makes me think it's likely these old versions were recorded. Will you include those possibly-recorded cues in your spreadsheet? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Steve said: A completely other question about the Box: Why doesn't it include the Orchestra member credits? Usually the expanded versions list the orchestra members. For scores recorded in the USA it is a contractual obligation to include them (though they can be listed on the label's website instead) The three Potter scores were recorded in London 2 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Will you include those possibly-recorded cues in your spreadsheet? Of course! All known information bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Jay said: Well, I did it. I resumed work on the Azkaban google doc tonight. Got through "Buckbeak's Flight and the Marader's Map" Man I forgot how much of a pain all that Boggarts music was... Excellent. Eagerly awaiting the read! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Same, I need some good bedtime reading. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2020 Phew! Got to the end of the score! Now just need to clean everything up and make it presentable Alan, Chewy, A. A. Ron and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,404 Posted September 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2020 See? That wasn't so hard, didn't even take long! Or were you waiting for us to discover things, do mockups, get the cats out of the bags, then do this instead of having to be the one to break them to us 2 years ago? TSMefford, Smeltington and A. A. Ron 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Or is a shawm-inclusive edition coming and did you want to wait until they got it approved? TSMefford and Chewy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2020 It did take a long time; The roadblock to me getting started was having to open up almost every single track to note down the timestamps where it switches from one cue to the next. I often don't bother to do this with a lot of JW scores where he writes longer cues and it is usually obvious where the switch is in a track, and/or there is often only 2 cues in a track, etc But with this score, it's a hundred short cues so there's no way to really discuss anything without knowing exactly where each cue starts and ends, so that was the bulk of the work. Other than that, I had no idea how to present it for a while, until I had a apostrophe epiphany about the best way (I hope) to present it so now everything's coming together really quickly Chewy, Smaug The Iron, Holko and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 27, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2020 Well, I thought cataloging all the timestamps was going to be the part that took the longest, but it turns out there's still a ton of work after all that, and it's very time consuming. I'm now through reel 5 (out of 7) going through everything and putting everything in the right spot and typing out what's different in what spot, etc. Incidentally, reel 5 ended up being the easiest of all by a massive margin - Not a single alternate, insert, overlay, or revision across the entire reel. I guess Cuaron and Williams just jived on that stretch of film (Buckbeak's Sentence through The Whomping Willow), way more so than any other part of the entire movie CGCJ, Holko, Once and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,266 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Thanks for your dedication. I'm eagerly antecipating your spreadsheet! TSMefford and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I don't understand what is going on here at all. I'm just glad we got the LLL release. Are they not what is in the movie? TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 A bunch of music was recorded for the film. Some cues later got overlays or inserts recorded, or even an entire new composition meant to completely replace it The LLL release contains everything you can hear in the film except for a few very minor things, plus many of these earlier versions as well A unlicensed leak of sheet music revealed that there exists (at least on paper) even earlier versions of some cues, but we have no idea if they were recorded or not. People have made mockups of these early compositions and presented them as embedded videos synced to film footage I think that sums it up. TSMefford and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 That, and maybe the fact that unlike HP1 and 2, 3 isn't that chronological on the LLL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 497 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: That, and maybe the fact that unlike HP1 and 2, 3 isn't that chronological on the LLL. It is maybe not 100% chronological but its still about 95% chronological so I am fine with that. Btw 1 and 2 are not 100% chronological either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 for me, the HP1 and 2 decisions mostly make sense. HP3 is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 HP1 is entirely chronological, except 2 short cues (one 20 seconds, one 30 seconds) that Columbus did not use in the scenes they were written for, are instead presented at the spot he did use them in the film (tracked into a scene that had no original score written for it). HP2 is entirely chronological, except 2 cues (3M6 Transformation Class and 3M7 The Library) are swapped in order to create a better listening experience HP3 is a crazy score of around 75 original cues with around 35 revisions/inserts/overlays and other miscellanea, so a few liberties were taken to present it all in a way that made sense for home listening and also to fit it all into two 79 minute CDs. The main narrative and thematic development is completely retained - what moved around are pieces outside of the main drive of the score. Holko and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I don't really agree. HP1 is indeed chronological, but I was referring to the two source cues on disc 3 while the two Christmas source cues are on disc 2, although the Wizard’s Pub might break the listening experience, I guess. The HP2 decision makes sense from a listening experience point of view, although I do wish he hadn't crossfaded them. Some of the HP3 liberties don't work for me at all, however. For instance, going from Birds to The Courtyard. In my view, it would have been far better to have Birds, Sir Cadogan, then The Courtyard and then The Hippogriff Lesson. Makes much more sense musically. And moving the Hogsmeade source cues to the bonus section is something I would never have done either. I’m guessing these decisions were taken because JW didn’t include them on the OST, but then, he also didn’t include The Courtyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted September 28, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I don't really agree. HP1 is indeed chronological, but I was referring to the two source cues on disc 3 while the two Christmas source cues are on disc 2, although the Wizard’s Pub might break the listening experience, I guess. Oh I dunno. 6M1Aalt Cast A Christmas Spell and 6M1A Christmas Music Box are definitely things I want to hear every time I listen to the score. 2M3 The Wizard's Pub and 7M3A Hagrid Plays The Flute are curiosities that are great to have released but I listen to them very rarely. Quote Some of the HP3 liberties don't work for me at all, however. For instance, going from Birds to The Courtyard. In my view, it would have been far better to have Birds, Sir Cadogan, then The Courtyard and then The Hippogriff Lesson. Makes much more sense musically. And moving the Hogsmeade source cues to the bonus section is something I would never have done either. I’m guessing these decisions were taken because JW didn’t include them on the OST, but then, he also didn’t include The Courtyard. My preference would have been to move the courtyard to the bonus section where source music belongs. I like hearing Sir Cadogan just before Double Trouble On The Hill, maybe because I'm used to it that way from the OST album. Heck, if he had moved the courtyard source to the bonus tracks, he could have then just included the "Hagrid The Professor" OST track instead of just the Double Trouble on the Hill cue as The Hippogriff Lesson. This is a score with endless possibilities of presenting the music. Every producer would do things different, and every fan can re-edit to their desires. Chewy, Holko, bollemanneke and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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