ragoz350 450 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: Oh really? So even though its called "Insert for Patronus Light", it replaces the entire original 4M14, it doesn't overlay on top of it? Oh sorry, I meant that this insert replaces one piece from the 4m14 cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Ah okay. I gotta listen to your mockups again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: Well, here it is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R7JM5QmRNh6PbgqeBH_lbj2C3WLbzxz9px3Z7GKLaAk/edit?usp=sharing Thanks, Jay! One little thing I can add: the alternate Aunt Marge’s Waltz intro is 1MB New Intro on the sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Thanks! Added. You must have a sheet leak the rest of us don't have! Anything else juicy in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jay said: Thanks! Added. You must have a sheet leak the rest of us don't have! Anything else juicy in there? It's nearly the same as the other leak, apart from including that alternate intro and a handful of individual parts, mostly for recorder, including 3M5-5A Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again, which we haven't yet seen a score or sketch for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Bummer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Do we know why another intro for Aunt Marge’s Waltz was recorded? (Thank you Jay for all your hard work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 @Jay Also worth noting that 4M2A Quidditch Ending replaces the ending of 4M2 Quidditch 2004, as written. Are you certain they were recorded separately? I was guessing the new ending had been incorporated into the cue prior to recording, as sometimes happens with inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Alex said: Do we know why another intro for Aunt Marge’s Waltz was recorded? Someone thought the music wasn't working an a different approach would be better, I guess. Quote (Thank you Jay for all your hard work) Thanks! 4 hours ago, BrotherSound said: @Jay Also worth noting that 4M2A Quidditch Ending replaces the ending of 4M2 Quidditch 2004, as written. Are you certain they were recorded separately? I was guessing the new ending had been incorporated into the cue prior to recording, as sometimes happens with inserts. The BMI cue list lists them separately! I don't know what you mean by "replacing" anything though. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jay said: I don't know what you mean by "replacing" anything though. Can you elaborate? The ending of 4M2 in the written score isn't one we've ever heard. We don't have any score for 4M2A, but it replaced the originally intended ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Oh interesting! I'll have to put that in the section of music only seen in the sheets, and someone should make a mockup! Question, is the timestamp where the recording switches from what's shown in the sheets to different material 3:04 (using OST / LLL disc 2 track), or some other point? Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Oh right, that IS what the BMI tab shows, my bad. It actually does sound a bit different to me. On their way to the pub, the 'now in 'Winter's Spell's upon you now' sounds a bit sloppy, like in the LLL track. But then, when Harry's leaving the pub, the 'now' sounds much more polished, it even seems to have an extra high note, C. So 4m8 and 9 (pub source) were recorded as one cue too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Oh right, that IS what the BMI tab shows, my bad. S'all good man Quote It actually does sound a bit different to me. On their way to the pub, the 'now in 'Winter's Spell's upon you now' sounds a bit sloppy, like in the LLL track. But then, when Harry's leaving the pub, the 'now' sounds much more polished, it even seems to have an extra high note, C. I've never seen any evidence that more than one version of Winter's Spell exists, but I suppose anything in possible! Quote So 4m8 and 9 (pub source) were recorded as one cue too? It's hard to tell but it sounds to me like the same cue used twice. Like it doesn't continue where it left off once he goes inside, it starts over. But it's almost impossible to hear in the film mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Oh, right, I thought you were using information we didn't know about (I've never seen 4m9 listed anywhere else). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jay said: Question, is the timestamp where the recording switches from what's shown in the sheets to different material 3:04 (using OST / LLL disc 2 track), or some other point? Yep, from that spot on (starting with the cymbal crash and brass) it no longer matches the full score we have. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 5:58 PM, ragoz350 said: So, I made a playlist where I collected all my POA mockups. Most of them I spammed published in mockup-thread. Looks like I didn’t do just String Overlay... In some mockups, I cut out parts that don't differ from the final version (I wrote about this in square brackets). ragoz350 · POA Mockups Btw I was making a mockup of the old ending of Quidditch 2004 (it's somewhere in this playlist, soundcloud doesn't allow me to share tracks). BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: Yep, from that spot on (starting with the cymbal crash and brass) it no longer matches the full score we have. Thanks! 6 minutes ago, ragoz350 said: Btw I was making a mockup of the old ending of Quidditch 2004 (it's somewhere in this playlist, soundcloud doesn't allow me to share tracks). Woah that ending is interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 One final question and then I'm done (for the night). It's about the end credits. The spreadsheet says they start at 0:53 of the LLL track. Is that how they were recorded, though? Because, as I recall, Datameister's old edit labelled 0:53-1:04 of that track as a separately recorded insert. I think he was right too, because the OST starts from that point on (1:04 of the LLL track) and the transition between The Firebolt and the credits is done very clumsily too, making me believe that they forgot to include that insert (0:53-1:04). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 @Jay Incredible spreadsheet! However, I would really add a few colours to the LLL Breakdown, because it is not easy to look at with all these stripes. I really wonder, why so many people preferred that version of the visual presentation. Apart from that, the way you presented what the LLL contains should be the way to do it! Very elaborate! Oh, and the album version of The Dementors Converge is really a brain twister, like John Williams wanted to make things even more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Maybe because we have good eyesight or glasses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, bollemanneke said: One final question and then I'm done (for the night). It's about the end credits. The spreadsheet says they start at 0:53 of the LLL track. Is that how they were recorded, though? Because, as I recall, Datameister's old edit labelled 0:53-1:04 of that track as a separately recorded insert. I think he was right too, because the OST starts from that point on (1:04 of the LLL track) and the transition between The Firebolt and the credits is done very clumsily too, making me believe that they forgot to include that insert (0:53-1:04). The sheet music for the end credits starts at the 1:04 part. The sheet music for the music heard from 0:53-1:04 hasn't leaked. Whether they recorded the end credits as written and then later beefed it up with an insert, or more sheets were inserted before recording anything, I have no idea. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Brundlefly said: @Jay Incredible spreadsheet! However, I would really add a few colours to the LLL Breakdown, because it is not easy to look at with all these stripes. I really wonder, why so many people preferred that version of the visual presentation. I was surprised too, I thought the color option would win. I can add color. 3 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Apart from that, the way you presented what the LLL contains should be the way to do it! Very elaborate! Yea I think I'll start doing that for all scores. 3 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Oh, and the album version of The Dementors Converge is really a brain twister, like John Williams wanted to make things even more complicated. I love that they (eventually) had the idea to use the same theme representing Harry's parents when Harry successfully conjures a patronus while training with Lupin, and then bring it back when he saves the day by conjuring another one at the end of the film. I don't know why JW thought it made sense to have the OST album also use that theme when Harry sees his future self doing it but doesn't understand yet what's going on. It seems logical to assume it was because Cuaron was planning on doing that in the film at the point the OST was locked, but I dunno, Cuaron seems unlikely to have wanted that to me. Maybe JW just liked the theme and wanted it on the album more. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I had another revelation yesterday evening about The Patronus Power. So the booklet claims it was an early demo for Harry's first successful Patronus. I believed that was a mistake and that it had to be part of 6M5AN, for good reason because it actually partly appears in the sheets for 6M5 Pt II. But: The Patronus Power reelly works if you paste the end of 4M14 The Dementor right after it. Only the beginning of 4M14 doesn't work in that track combination. It's really weird how confusing the recording of this score is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 In the Complete Cue List section of the spreadsheet, I'm not seeing 5:24-9:28 of Time Past / Saving Buckbeak accounted for anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 5 hours ago, bollemanneke said: I had another revelation yesterday evening about The Patronus Power. So the booklet claims it was an early demo for Harry's first successful Patronus. I believed that was a mistake and that it had to be part of 6M5AN, for good reason because it actually partly appears in the sheets for 6M5 Pt II. But: The Patronus Power reelly works if you paste the end of 4M14 The Dementor right after it. Only the beginning of 4M14 doesn't work in that track combination. It's really weird how confusing the recording of this score is. Interesting, so you're basically saying: 4M14 Dueling The Dementor (mockup video here) = Original cue, the first 30 seconds cover Harry successfully defeating the boggart-dementor with no choir at all, just brass and strings (not playing a noticeable melody); the rest of the cue covers Harry and Lupin's conversation, with the original rejected Past theme 4M14 insert For Patronus Light (mockup video here) = replaces the part where Harry casts the spell with choir, still non-thematic, would segue to the rest of the original, non-WTTP ending The Patronus Power = 2nd idea to replace the part where Harry casts the spell, this time with more powerful choir and horn triplets - just like the original recorded versions of First Frozen Lake and Watching The Past. Wow! 4M14N The Dementor (video here) = Completely revised version of cue, now using WTTP theme backed by choir for the spell, and WTTP theme again during Lupin/Harry convo 4 minutes ago, Smeltington said: In the Complete Cue List section of the spreadsheet, I'm not seeing 5:24-9:28 of Time Past / Saving Buckbeak accounted for anywhere. That's just Saving Buckbeak with the ticking clock over it, doesn't the first tab that breaks down the LLL tracks show that? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jay said: That's just Saving Buckbeak with the ticking clock over it, doesn't the first tab that breaks down the LLL tracks show that? It does, yeah, I guess I was just expecting all the LLL material to be accounted for in the Complete Cue List, so it confused me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I don't see how or why the complete cue list tab would list a cue that appears on the album twice No reason to list all the identical Knight Bus pieces twice either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 In this case they're not really identical, because 7:26 - 7:37 of the main program version on the LLL is longer than that same material on the alternate, plus there's the ticking clock on one and not the other, so it seems to me that one of these versions at least belongs in the alternate mixes section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Woah I never noticed that longer part! I guess he edited the cue down for the OST version? Good point about the clock being thought of as like an alternate mix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Yeah it seems like a microedit that they retained for the alt. I haven't actually compared to the OST though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 OK i added/updated some notes about 7M1A to the various tabs Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Nice! I've been working on my edit using your spreadsheet and it's super helpful! And I've actually been surprised how many of Mike's not-quite-C&C creative solutions were clever enough to keep. The Three Broomsticks track, and Befriending the Hippogriff, for example. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 The man knows how to program! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Not always, befriending the Hippogriff doesn't work at all, especially because it's blatantly obvious that that cue needs to segue directly into Buckbeak's Flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 But it can't do that with the drum intro, right? I thought it was a good combo, the two cues have such a similar feel, and Buckbeak's Flight is such a mic drop cue - and with a natural ending of its own - that having the short cue afterward feels almost anticlimactic. bollemanneke and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I kind of agree with you too. What I meant was that the final note of Befriending the Hippogriff is supposed to lead straight into the Buckbeak's Flight timpani. But then, BF would not be its own track, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 The timpani was a later insert, right? Do we know that the end of Befriending the Hippogriff would have led into the timpani and not the original opening of the cue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Smeltington said: The timpani was a later insert, right? Do we know that the end of Befriending the Hippogriff would have led into the timpani and not the original opening of the cue? Right, the timpani and percussion intro is an insert. We don't know for sure whether the insert was written before or after 3MC Befriending the Hippogriff, but the last note of 3MC and first note of 3MCA Riding the Hippogriff are both F either way. JW must not have felt too strongly about it needing to lead directly into the next cue, though, because the last few bars of Befriending the Hippogriff (starting with the staccato bassoon and bass clarinet) are marked as an "optional ending". bollemanneke and crlbrg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,346 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Right, so if we assume that that optional ending could have led into Riding the Hippogriff without timpani, could that mean that optional ending was actually meant to underscore Buckbeak running fefore taking off? Weird musical choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 @ragoz350 made a video showcasing how to segue from Befriending The Hippogriff directly into Riding The Hippogriff before the percusison intro existed right here: Source: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32780-restored-isolated-score-harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-of-azkaban-wo-sfx/ bollemanneke and BrotherSound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 It's so different from the drums, and yet, I love it! It's kinda lucky we don't have the original opening clean, or I'd have a hard time figuring out how to include it Thanks @Jay for retrieving that and thank you to @ragoz350!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Kind of prefer that to the film - it's a gentler introduction to the flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2020 The drums are iconic though, and IMO it's better storytelling as well, having the ride start off viscerally terrifying, before it becomes magical and rapturous. The original is musically very pretty, at least. Edmilson, crlbrg, Holko and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 They work as a concert piece intro, sure, but as part of the overall scene I think this version works better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Richard Penna said: They work as a concert piece intro, sure, but as part of the overall scene I think this version works better. I disagree. I don't think the original opening properly conveys what is on screen. Harry is clearly super nervous and anxious at the opening. My vote is the Timpani for the film, glad they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I have an old DVD rip on my hard drive of the Azkaban score, which contains a version of Mischief Managed that runs 3:02. It ends after all the instrumental Double Trouble material, right before the Window to the Past material comes in. And it has a very nice, satisfying clean ending to the Double Trouble instrumental material. It ends similar to The Hippogriff Lesson, but I'm not sure if the ending is actually taken from there, or somewhere else, as it doesn't sound exactly the same to me. I don't know where this DVD rip originated, or how the editor would have put together that clean ending, but I'd love to be able to recreate it. Does anyone know how this was accomplished? Clip attached. Mischief Managed DVD rip ending.mp3 TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 12 hours ago, Smeltington said: I have an old DVD rip on my hard drive of the Azkaban score, which contains a version of Mischief Managed that runs 3:02. It ends after all the instrumental Double Trouble material, right before the Window to the Past material comes in. And it has a very nice, satisfying clean ending to the Double Trouble instrumental material. It ends similar to The Hippogriff Lesson, but I'm not sure if the ending is actually taken from there, or somewhere else, as it doesn't sound exactly the same to me. I don't know where this DVD rip originated, or how the editor would have put together that clean ending, but I'd love to be able to recreate it. Does anyone know how this was accomplished? Clip attached. Mischief Managed DVD rip ending.mp3 260.78 kB · 11 downloads You're correct. It's the ending to The Hippogriff Lesson. It sounds a little digital almost as if there was too much processing or a lower bitrate. Perhaps it was pulled from the surround channels or something, but yeah. To recreate it you would just tack on the end of Hippogriff Lesson. It sounds a bit different because whoever made it used a longer crossfade than necessary and it makes the tambourine sound off tempo as well as making the mix sound different. Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Ahh, interesting, I guess it sounds more seamless to me than my attempts. I'll have to keep trying. Thanks for figuring that out! I think this is the perfect solution to the end credits, because then I can throw in the full Window to the Past track after it, plus the full Double Trouble song, and maybe a few alternates if they sound good in sequence. Then follow it all up with the Nox coda material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,355 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2020 You don't like the Azkaban re-recording of Hedwig's Theme? I love it! TSMefford, Molly Weasley, Once and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 It was fascinating to hear it for the first time and to learn that at one point, that was the intention. But no, I like how fresh and new the music in this film feels after all the repetition of material between the first two scores, and I would prefer to cap it all off with new material than to lapse back into verbatim material from an earlier film. I think they were right to remove the Hedwig material from the film and OST... even if what they did instead was still a bit too repetitive. But now I have the power to fix that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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