bollemanneke 3,308 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, Jay said: I do doubt he would have allowed it! But I don't know if he would have or not. I'm having lunch with Mike on Saturday, I can ask him if he ever talked to Jaime about Shawm or not! Yes please! TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,406 Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 Though, if GoF inluded all the world cup camp source music like the drums and solo duduk and sitar and bagpipes and stuff (which it absolutely should, in case it's a topic on Saturday ), I don't think Doyle would notice Shawm in there! Smeltington, TSMefford, Jay and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jay said: I am amused by how much discussion Shawm has gotten since the set came out. I don't think Mike and I said more than a sentence or two about it when working on the set! It's more of a running joke than a discussion point these days, but seemed relevant when comparing things that were included vs things that weren't (whether due to JW, producer discretion or missing elements). I guess my only point is: I'd sooner take a Williams-composed source piece over a non-Williams trailer cue with tracked Williams music from an earlier score. Curious Williams would allow the latter but not the former ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13 minutes ago, Holko said: It'd make much more sense on a 3 disc redo from the multitracks with everything fixed, mixed and included. I'd rebuy Azkaban in a heartbeat if the complete elements were located and more alternates discovered. Plus the film mixes of cues that sound different in the movie (Quidditch, Forward to Time Past, etc). And let's not forget the early Double Trouble demo Williams recorded in LA (used as reference on set). Add all that with Shawm, the alternate Aunt Marge stinger, the OST track Mischief Managed (because there's room now) and that's a very healthy 3CD set 9 minutes ago, Holko said: Though, if GoF inluded all the world cup camp source music like the drums and solo duduk and sitar and bagpipes and stuff (which it absolutely should, in case it's a topic on Saturday ), I don't think Doyle would notice Shawm in there! Just don't tell him, he'll never know! enderdrag64, Holko and Docteur Qui 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,623 Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 3 hours ago, crumbs said: At the end of the day it's a track filled with music Williams didn't even compose, followed by a very poor-sounding version of music that already exists on another disc. So ignore it then! I fail to understand the problem here. If a disc isn't full and for whatever reason they don't have any extra Williams music to put on, and they find this track, why not pop it on there at the end for anyone who might fancy listening to it? In fact, I often read about people pondering whether source cues will be on a set like this. I've seen some positive comments about the handful of source cues they put in PoA, which aren't Williams - what if they'd included those at the end? TSMefford, Chewy, enderdrag64 and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 604 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Jay said: I am amused by how much discussion Shawm has gotten since the set came out. I don't think Mike and I said more than a sentence or two about it when working on the set! It is amusing for such a random cue, I agree! Personally, I love the Shawm cue, but then again, Prisoner of Azkaban was released when I was 9 and it was the movie that made me interested in just about every part of film making. The Shawm cue specifically made me obsessed with source music. The fact that source music heard by the characters within the film's world is composed by the film's composer along with the actual score fascinated me (still does, actually). And I would spend hours thinking bout the logistics behind it - some source cues (like Double Trouble) would have to be written and recorded even before filming. Or in some of Fellini's films when Nino Rota's film score blends into source music and back again - how did they plan that? It's a very nerdy part of filmmaking, but I love it. And even if I love how cool the mix of Discussing Black and the Shawm cue sounds together in the film, I actually think I'm more interested in the cue because of what it means to me personally rather than it's musical value as a composition, haha. Holko and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,077 Posted August 30, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 Wow! This cue is going to reach legendary status here in the coming years Once, bollemanneke and TSMefford 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,420 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Not releasing it will do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Honestly, I’d be perfectly fine with a 3CD set that still omits the shawm. It literally doesn’t matter to me. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TolkienSS 401 Posted August 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2022 Can someone explain what the hell a Shawm is and why it matters? At first I thought everybody misspelled Shawn, and meant Shawn Murphy, then I noticed it wouldn't make sense to add Shawn Murphy to a track list. Haralampos, crumbs, Chewy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,077 Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawm https://caslabs.case.edu/medren/medieval-instruments/shawm Starting at 0:24: enderdrag64 and Haralampos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted August 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, TolkienSS said: Can someone explain what the hell a Shawm is and why it matters? At first I thought everybody misspelled Shawn, and meant Shawn Murphy, then I noticed it wouldn't make sense to add Shawn Murphy to a track list. EDIT: Ninja'd! I love the ominous dissonance once the score begins in tandem with the Shawm. Creates an unsettling musical texture, perfect for the conversation taking place and overall mood of the film. Wonder if JW intended the two to overlap this long? It's remarkably effective if he didn't. Azkaban is such a masterpiece of visual and musical storytelling. Lucky we got a fragment of this clean in the AOTS podcast. TSMefford, Once, Haralampos and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brundlefly 2,382 Posted August 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2022 4 hours ago, crumbs said: I love the ominous dissonance once the score begins in tandem with the Shawm. Creates an unsettling musical texture, perfect for the conversation taking place and overall mood of the film. Wonder if JW intended the two to overlap this long? It's remarkably effective if he didn't. I'm all for an inclusion on a new set as follows: Discussing Black in the main program + the shawm cue in the bonus section + another track in the bonus section that combines them like in the movie. LLL did that on Goldsmith's The Stripper release with a piece of source music and a score cue. 12 hours ago, Richard Penna said: So ignore it then! I fail to understand the problem here. I think it is perfectly valid to criticize the inclusion of a piece just like the omission of a piece. In this case that criticism refers mainly to the listening experience that is lessened to some people by concluding the album with a generic trailer track that has no new Williams music. Once, Holko and crumbs 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: I'm all for an inclusion on a new set as follows: Discussing Black in the main program + the shawm cue in the bonus section + another track in the bonus section that combines them like in the movie. LLL did that on Goldsmith's The Stripper release with a piece of source music and a score cue. Yes! A bonus track combining Shawm with Discussing Black (as heard in the film) would've been the perfect compromise, if a standalone source track was ruled out. Another track combining the Double Trouble Intro with its intended overlap would've been helpful too. Try as I might, it's almost impossible to recreate that film version mix using the separate tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 All this talk of Shawm, when the original “Remembering Mother” and its references in later cues is what I really want to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said: All this talk of Shawm, when the original “Remembering Mother” and its references in later cues is what I really want to hear! If only we knew if they were actually recorded! bollemanneke and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 9 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I'm all for an inclusion on a new set as follows: Discussing Black in the main program + the shawm cue in the bonus section + another track in the bonus section that combines them like in the movie. LLL did that on Goldsmith's The Stripper release with a piece of source music and a score cue. If there were to be a new set I'd love to see more of the clean openings and endings released too. More than half the tracks on PoA combine 2 or more cues each. It's an excellently constructed listening experience the way it is, but I'd prefer to have the increased customizability. Even if it isn't possible to release them all as separate cues because they're too short, it should be possible to include multiple cues (without overlap) in the same track right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelly 260 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Man, all you guys do is complain. Often they're about things you already have (like the Shawm track and Double Trouble transition) but for some reason want an even more arcane version of. In fact, I'm beginning to think that you guys don't listen to music or watch movies either. I think you just complain about them on JWFan all day. That's why some of you have thousands and thousands of posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 604 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 I’m not complaining about the release we got. It’s a fantastic release, and I’m perfectly satisfied if it’s the final edition of the scores to be released. All I’m saying is; I love the Shawm cue. Docteur Qui and Haralampos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Skelly said: Man, all you guys do is complain. Often they're about things you already have (like the Shawm track and Double Trouble transition) but for some reason want an even more arcane version of. In fact, I'm beginning to think that you guys don't listen to music or watch movies either. I think you just complain about them on JWFan all day. That's why some of you have thousands and thousands of posts. Nah, we listen to music while we complain, more efficient that way Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpotTheDog 39 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Changing the topic slightly, how bad are the audio issues on the initial pressings of the Azkaban discs versus the new ones? I can’t easily pick up on that kind of thing. As a point of reference, is it more or less of a problem than the sound quality of the 1997 Empire and Jedi Special Edition soundtracks (which are likewise frequently praised for their selection of music but criticized for poor audio)? Thanks! (To clarify, my hearing is not the most acute, and I’m essentially of the “quantity over quality” camp when it comes to a soundtrack expansion). It’s really been bothering me, though, that I can’t hear these flaws that I suppose should be obvious…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Its not really audible SpotTheDog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,077 Posted September 1, 2022 Author Share Posted September 1, 2022 The only difference is six tracks that used material from the album master has frequencies missing that most human's ears cannot notice is missing. Once and SpotTheDog 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 10 hours ago, Skelly said: Man, all you guys do is complain. Often they're about things you already have (like the Shawm track and Double Trouble transition) but for some reason want an even more arcane version of. In fact, I'm beginning to think that you guys don't listen to music or watch movies either. I think you just complain about them on JWFan all day. That's why some of you have thousands and thousands of posts. If you had actually read half of my posts in this thread, you'd know I found this set a life-changing experience and I think it's very, very good overall, just not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelly 260 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 I already know you and Once are exceptions. I'm just saying -- four years later and the same conversations are being had, usually by the same people who have already had them several times. Get some new material, JWFan! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewy 2,357 Posted September 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2022 On 11/12/2018 at 1:40 PM, Lockdown said: Can we discuss now why POA uses lossy sources in about 4 cues? Wow really? The set contains lossy material?! Can we ask for replacements at LLL? What a rip-off. bollemanneke, A. A. Ron and crumbs 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted September 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2022 43 minutes ago, Skelly said: I already know you and Once are exceptions. I'm just saying -- four years later and the same conversations are being had, usually by the same people who have already had them several times. Get some new material, JWFan! The only thing worse than people complaining is people complaining about people complaining. You've cherry picked less than one page of discussion and ignored the other 63 pages of people waxing lyrical about the set. Chewy, Once, Holko and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Oh it is definitely a fantastic set. Would I love to see an absolutely definitive version of POA like this new JP? Yes of course but just like the 2016 JP Set, if this POA is all we get then it will be more than sufficient for me. but… I’d buy it again for sure. POA is an absolute masterpiece and will always get my money crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 I'm not sure if I'd re-buy it, honestly. One part of me would 100% want a definitive POA, but then again receiving this set for Christmas was so seminal that I can't discard this version. Then another part, the one Marie Kondo took over, is saying I shouldn't have the same thing on my shelf twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 604 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 I'd re-buy any Williams/Potter score, if Matessino has made any improvements. Actually, that's probably true of any Williams score... I don't have the Shawm cue from some podcast, I'm not good at audio editing at all. That's why I love Matessino's releases, even if recording sessions or whatever is floating around. They're basically always definitive (in my opinion). blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted September 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2022 1 & 2 are pretty much perfectly assembled IMO. Azkaban I have heavily edited and rearranged. Mike did a great job of leaving space between cues and such to facilitate easy fan editing, but I’d still be interested in having a clock and no clock version of all the cues that take place in the past and wouldn’t say no to more clean openings/endings, to say nothing of any additional alternates that may have been recorded. Oh and we need a fix for the end of the film version of Saving Buckbeak. So yeah, I’d probably re-buy Azkaban at least. I’m pretty happy with my edit if a new edition never comes though. Chewy, enderdrag64, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said: 1 & 2 are pretty much perfectly assembled IMO. Azkaban I have heavily edited and rearranged. Mike did a great job of leaving space between cues and such to facilitate easy fan editing, but I’d still be interested in having a clock and no clock version of all the cues that take place in the past and wouldn’t say no to more clean openings/endings, to say nothing of any additional alternates that may have been recorded. Oh and we need a fix for the end of the film version of Saving Buckbeak. So yeah, I’d probably re-buy Azkaban at least. I’m pretty happy with my edit if a new edition never comes though. Very this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 New theory. I was just listening to parts of my HP1 DVD Rip (still think that film reverb needs to carry over to CD releases) and noticed again that, in the LLL track with the Change of Season cue, 3:14-16 is micro-edited in the film. I first thought they did that to fit the scene, but then I listened to the unedited portion of the recording and think I heard a rather major mistake in the violins. That made me wonder: is that why they edited this out? I really think the film version is better, especially the cello part is much more moving and logical this way. I think the bit they took out is too chaotic. What do you think? EDIT: Just checked the film, they actually retained the flub. But I still think removing these two bars was a fantastic decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,410 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Can you provide sound samples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Unrelated, but can anyone confirm—the liner notes for this set don't list the musicians, right? I won't have access to my set for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,077 Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 They do not Datameister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Booooo. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, BB-8 said: Can you provide sound samples? Okay, this took me 20 minutes to find, God knows why. I'm talking about the edit at around the five-minute mark. We need those isolated scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,410 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Okay, this took me 20 minutes to find, God knows why. I'm talking about the edit at around the five-minute mark. We need those isolated scores. So this is the edit which is underlying the film? To my ears something is missing. The phrase is cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Ah, I think the exact opposite. The added phrase in the recording as-is sounds off to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,410 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Ah, I think the exact opposite. The added phrase in the recording as-is sounds off to me. Are you alluding to the hectical strings in the background? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Not particularly, surprisingly. More to the extra two notes in the theme extension. In the score, you have the first family phrase and then four notes. The film only has two. I like that much more. The cue as written sounds unnatural, as if it was written in such a way that they'd have the possibility to create the film edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,410 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 I've got so used to the OST that any deviation from that sounds out of place (except for the Berlin ritardando). bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Not particularly, surprisingly. More to the extra two notes in the theme extension. In the score, you have the first family phrase and then four notes. The film only has two. I like that much more. The cue as written sounds unnatural, as if it was written in such a way that they'd have the possibility to create the film edit. Definitely disagree. The film version is fine, but I prefer it without the edit. I wouldn't even call it an extension of the theme; that's just how the family theme always goes. I'm curious if you have the same issue with other statements of the theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Not that I recall, no. Maybe I'm biased because I seem to remember mentally "imprinting on" the film version. I defintely saw the film multiple times before hearing the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 58 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Not that I recall, no. Maybe I'm biased because I seem to remember mentally "imprinting on" the film version. I defintely saw the film multiple times before hearing the OST. Ah, I getcha. That's probably a big part of it. Part of me still expects Cantina Band #2 to have that conspicuous edit in its main melody. bollemanneke and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,077 Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 That Cantina Band edit is weird. Like, who came up with that, and for what purpose was it done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, Jay said: That Cantina Band edit is weird. Like, who came up with that, and for what purpose was it done? It is weird, and I like it. My assumption has always been that they wanted the musical phrase to last neatly for the whole shot of the band. If they'd cut the film the exact same way but not edited the music, it would have been a little awkward in the cut to Han. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,077 Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 Ahhh, yes, that's a good theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Oh, also, I discovered something else yesterday: that grace note in the Firebolt that we were all surprised at, it's actually in the film. I don't understand why I found that weird at first as I've definitely spent more time with the film than that problematic OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,077 Posted September 20, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2022 There's so much going on in the Azkaban film, it's easy to miss any small detail TSMefford, bollemanneke and Once 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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