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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


Jay

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30 minutes ago, Jay said:

Most humans can't hear frequencies over 20khz anyway, and if you're over 40 you're lucky to hear frequencies over 15khz.

 

The fact that a few minutes out of 8 hours was missing frequencies over 16khz is really and truly irrelevant, especially when all affected passages are on the OST anyway.

 

It would cost LLL thousands of dollars to create, repress, and mail out replacement discs for no audible difference whatsoever. That money is better spent ensuring more Williams soundtracks come our way.

 

I am 100% positive Mike will examine the frequencies of all studio and engineer supplied elements received in the future, and use that information along with everything else determine the right element for every part of the job.

 

Well said Jay. I couldn’t help but roll my eyes at replacement discs over this. Come on.

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7 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

Well said Jay. I couldn’t help but roll my eyes at replacement discs over this. Come on.

 

Couldn't agree more. My discs sound amazing and that's all that matters.

 

Also, I'm getting serious Lost World vibes from Quidditch, Year 3.

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1 minute ago, Josh500 said:

If nobody had mentioned the issue with the cut-off frequencies, I certainly wouldn't have noticed anything. I don't think it's something you'd normally be able to pick up anyway, at least not just by listening to it. I'm actually perfectly happy and satisfied with this set, while still going through all 8 hours of music, in speechless awe of John Williams's unmatched talent and productivity....

 

 

Don't forget William Ross.

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Could somebody explain to me, in a few short sentences, what this "Shawm" cue is? I know this has already been discussed at length somewhere, but right now I just can't find it. Basically what I want to know is...

 

1. Can this cue be heard in the movie, or is this an alternate that was not used?

2. How much music we're talking about here? 1 minute or longer?

3. What scene was this written for?

4. What's the consensus or official explanation why this wasn't included on the set?

 

Thank you! 

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It's source music and can be heard in the Leaky Cauldron when Ron shows the picture of them in Egypt, then Arthur Weasley calls Harry aside to tell him about Sirius, it overlays the first part of Discussing Black.

 

It may be longer then a minute in the film, but that could just be looped. 30+ seconds for sure, I think.

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

How many times do I have to post that all the Williams score heard in the film is on the CD?

I almost started to nitpick as a reflex that the percussion intro and overlay to the slowed down Cadogan is not actually on it, but then it's not Williams, is it? Cleverly chosen words you have!

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4 minutes ago, Holko said:

It's source music and can be heard in the Leaky Cauldron when Ron shows the picture of them in Egypt, then Arthur Weasley calls Harry aside to tell him about Sirius, it overlays the first part of Discussing Black.

 

This? 

 

Hmmm. Sure, it'd be great if we had it, but this sure sounds like something I wouldn't listen to very often even if we had it. Kinda like the zany, bumbly, otherworldly source cues from TPM...

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Could somebody explain to me, in a few short sentences, what this "Shawm" cue is? I know this has already been discussed at length somewhere, but right now I just can't find it. Basically what I want to know is...

 

1. Can this cue be heard in the movie, or is this an alternate that was not used?

2. How much music we're talking about here? 1 minute or longer?

3. What scene was this written for?

4. What's the consensus or official explanation why this wasn't included on the set?

 

Thank you! 

 

I'm deviating from my planned post momentarily.

 

But, the "Shawm" cue is a source cue. It can be heard in the film. Here, throughout the first minute. I believe it plays for an extended period before this clip begins as well. Maybe another 20 seconds or so):

 

No idea, on why it was excluded. It's been asked, but I'm personally not going to be pushy with it. It's not much of a loss.

 

 

EDIT: Damnit. I was DOUBLE ninja'd

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7 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Ahhh, okay. Interesting! Are there certain things you can point out about why you prefer the newer Star Wars scores to Harry Potter?

Without going into much detail... I prefer his more concise recent writing. It's sort if what happens to most composers late in their careers. They just sort of cut to the chase without showing off. Second reason is that I generally don't like his "kids" music as much as some other stuff. That is why one of my favourite scores of his recent career are The Book Thief and War Horse.

 

Having said that, I enjoy his Potter scores and looking forward to revisiting Azkaban later today.

 

Karol

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Just now, King Mark said:

No Summoning the Patronus in your list?

 

Ah yeah. Definitely. Damnit. I knew I'd miss something. There are so many good ones. 

 

That one is definitely fantastic. Love the choral work. Some of it (the section from 1:12-1:20) sort of reappears during "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" at 2:28-2:34. Great little bit of connective tissue.

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I was thinking when Harry repels the dementor from the chest. The awesome choral and Past theme rendition with brass and bells(I think) .I think it's the most powerful moment in the score

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1 minute ago, King Mark said:

I was thinking when Harry repels the dementor from the chest. The awesome choral and Past theme rendition .I think it's the most powerful moment in the score

 

Oh yeah that's great as well. I just kind of connected the two scenes I mentioned musically when I heard it again and thought that was a cool moment worth mentioning as well. 

 

What are some of your other standouts?

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10 hours ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

 

Aren't you guys taking this anti-OST propaganda a bit too far? You're just bashing the man himself for his intended album presentation.

 

I actually like JW's suites much of the time. They bring together related material very well.

 

My anti-OST stance with Williams almost always comes down to either crucial missing material or bizarre track ordering that ruins any sense of narrative. Both affect the HP OSTs. He completely ruined the wonderful spider/car sequence in CoS by separating the tense build-up and the amazing chase cue, and the time travelling cues in PoA begin with a rather downbeat section for Buckbeak's rescue and then afterwards introduce the actual time travelling. If Williams claims to want to take listeners on a 'journey' then IMO these decisions are working against him.

 

But back to positivity... this set fixes all of these narrative problems beautifully :)

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57 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

My anti-OST stance with Williams almost always comes down to either crucial missing material or bizarre track ordering that ruins any sense of narrative. Both affect the HP OSTs. He completely ruined the wonderful spider/car sequence in CoS by separating the tense build-up and the amazing chase cue, and the time travelling cues in PoA begin with a rather downbeat section for Buckbeak's rescue and then afterwards introduce the actual time travelling. If Williams claims to want to take listeners on a 'journey' then IMO these decisions are working against him.

 

It should be emphasized again, if you choose to use such "harsh" language as "bizarre ordering" and "completely ruined," that it's just your own opinion, and one opinion of many.

 

Because I completely disagree. These scores are 2 hours, more or less. It stands to reason that JW can't include everything on the OST albums. He needs to distill the score into a presentable 70 minutes or so, and that includes shuffling the cues around a bit. That he can't please everybody is only understandable.... I myself am always curious about and fascinated by the decisions JW makes while assembling the albums. It's like an artform in and of itself.

 

And I absolutely love "The Spiders" on the OST of Chamber of Secrets

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15 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

I don't think it's that black and white. 

 

What works for some people doesn't for some others, for whatever reason. And vice versa. That's practically the definition of "you can't please everybody." 

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I love when we have the choice.

 

Recently I've decided that the week I listen to OSTs (because I have less concentration in the bus or at work), and during the week-end I listen only to Expanded Sets.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

 

It should be emphasized again, if you choose to use such "harsh" language as "bizarre ordering" and "completely ruined," that it's just your own opinion, and one opinion of many.

 

'bizarre ordering' doesn't feel like harsh language for me. I stand by using the words 'completely ruined' for the spiders. It's such a good set piece in the film which I feel Williams missed on album.

 

And yes, it's one opinion of many. But isn't the point of this forum to air those differing opinions? I respect that you like this album assembly in particular, even if I don't understand it.

 

I was simply pondering whether the issues I have with PoA's album is maybe why I didn't find sections of it very interesting which I do now.

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The OST of a movie always were an "artistical work" on its own.  Once you understood that...

 

Expanded Sets... that's pretty much a modern fashion.

 

Well, for people of my age!

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And so I am nearing the end of my first full listen of Prisoner of Azkaban. If the album gives you an impression that it is a departure then this complete presentation will make that impression even greater. Yes, there's a bit of the "cute" music in here as well but the overall mood is quite oppressive and spine-chilling. There's a lot of alaetoric horror-like music in this than I remember. I can understand that a casual fan of John Williams might be bit shocked by some of this material. There's a lot of stuff to discover here, the experience greatly enhanced by the fact there was no session leak for this one and the sound mix in the film was quite weak as well. Not to mention the ever-present trimming/editing of the music as heard in the film. So a lot of this stuff we get to hear for the first time properly.

 

Again, as with the Chamber theme in the previous film, it's cool to hear Windows to the Past properly placed within the story and not just presented in 1-2 tracks. The expanded presentation, while probably not as soaring as some of Williams classics, has a much stronger sense of narrative and direction, something that the original album sorely lacked. It's nice to hear things properly placed and some subtle connective material that helps create a much more satisfying whole.

 

I like the time-travelling material that reminds me of some stuff from both Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can. I am also overjoyed we now have music from two trailers and all the source music (especially A Winter's Spell!). Oh and the film version of Lupin's Transformation is very cool too. And it's nice to have all the Patronus choral material. :)

 

The booklet, again, was a very nice read. But it made me very sad when I read on the last page that Williams returned to London to conduct LSO in concert in October 2018. :(

 

So yes, wonderful score and quite unique in Williams' catalogue. It's such a massive undertaking to listen to this set, even over 3 days! But it was definitely worth the money and I hope it sells well. I am, however, bit surprised there is not much talk about it on some Harry Potter fan websites. It is really an obscure hobby after all...

 

Karol

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I feel so isolated unable to talk about all this music without hearing the set. By the time I get the set, it'll be out of fashion, just like the time I brought Pokemon cards to school the day everyone moved on from them to Tamagotchis!

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22 minutes ago, crocodile said:

The booklet, again, was a very nice read. But it made me very sad when I read on the last page that Williams returned to London to conduct LSO in concert in October 2018. :(

 

They really wrote that?  Idiots! 🤣

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2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

They really wrote that?  Idiots! 🤣

The set was supposed to come out in August...and then delayed until October... and then again. So it was evidently ready some time ago.

 

Karol

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7 minutes ago, crocodile said:

The set was supposed to come out in August...and then delayed until October... and then again. So it was evidently ready some time ago.

 

Karol

 

Well, MM will learn a 2nd lesson with the HP set: in a booklet, never write about an event that is supposed to happen in the future...

 

😎

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

'bizarre ordering' doesn't feel like harsh language for me. I stand by using the words 'completely ruined' for the spiders. It's such a good set piece in the film which I feel Williams missed on album.

 

And yes, it's one opinion of many. But isn't the point of this forum to air those differing opinions? I respect that you like this album assembly in particular, even if I don't understand it.

 

I was simply pondering whether the issues I have with PoA's album is maybe why I didn't find sections of it very interesting which I do now.

 

Well, all's good. I never said you couldn't air your opinions.

 

It's just that "completely ruined" and "bizarre ordering"... such phrases feel like such an exaggeration to me, but if you really feel that way, then okay. I just felt the need to defend Williams (or his decisions), because I don't feel so negatively about the OST albums at all. In fact, I love and treasure them, with all their little flaws. That's all.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, crocodile said:

And so I am nearing the end of my first full listen of Prisoner of Azkaban. If the album gives you an impression that it is a departure then this complete presentation will make that impression even greater. Yes, there's a bit of the "cute" music in here as well but the overall mood is quite oppressive and spine-chilling. There's a lot of alaetoric horror-like music in this than I remember. I can understand that a casual fan of John Williams might be bit shocked by some of this material. There's a lot of stuff to discover here, the experience greatly enhanced by the fact there was no session leak for this one and the sound mix in the film was quite weak as well. Not to mention the ever-present trimming/editing of the music as heard in the film. So a lot of this stuff we get to hear for the first time properly.

 

Again, as with the Chamber theme in the previous film, it's cool to hear Windows to the Past properly placed within the story and not just presented in 1-2 tracks. The expanded presentation, while probably not as soaring as some of Williams classics, has a much stronger sense of narrative and direction, something that the original album sorely lacked. It's nice to hear things properly placed and some subtle connective material that helps create a much more satisfying whole.

 

I like the time-travelling material that reminds me of some stuff from both Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can. I am also overjoyed we now have music from two trailers and all the source music (especially A Winter's Spell!). Oh and the film version of Lupin's Transformation is very cool too. And it's nice to have all the Patronus choral material. :)

 

The booklet, again, was a very nice read. But it made me very sad when I read on the last page that Williams returned to London to conduct LSO in concert in October 2018. :(

 

So yes, wonderful score and quite unique in Williams' catalogue. It's such a massive undertaking to listen to this set, even over 3 days! But it was definitely worth the money and I hope it sells well. I am, however, bit surprised there is not much talk about it on some Harry Potter fan websites. It is really an obscure hobby after all...

 

Karol

 

Very very well said.

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After getting some sleep, I’m back. Now onto my questions. Prepare yourself @Jay

 

Some more general ones:

  • Firstly. Do you have a favorite or fondest moment, anecdote, story, etc. from working on the set that you haven’t mentioned and would like to share with us?

  • When these little hidden gems are found like “Car Drives Off (Alternate Segment)” or the alternates for “Aunt Marge’s Waltz” and “The Firebolt”. How are these found? Just listening in on the tapes and suddenly they just pop up? Or is there more to it (seeing it in sheet music, etc. first and tracking it down)

  • Are you able to share with us more details about the making of the set from your perspective? How you were approached, when you got to hear things (and what you got to hear), the interactions between you and Mike, etc.?

 

Some more specific ones, just PoA related, Starting with some more random curious questions.

  • This is based on the cue list and not really anything to do with the set (nor is it a complaint about something not being included), just thought I’d ask while you’re here. What is the cue “Ad-Lib Hum”? I’m assuming that’s Hagrid’s hum thing he does when he reveals Buckbeak?

  • This is an utterly random question. The opening of “The Executioner” includes what I had always assumed to be the Clock Tower in the film. Looking back, it does appear to be a different pitch than the Clock Tower heard throughout the rest of the film. It does raise the question though. Did Williams write the clock chime? Or is that sound guys again?

  • Are there any stories that you know of behind “Trailer” from PoA? Specifically when it was recorded in relation to the score, etc. I ask because it all is so very different from the tone and style established in “Teaser” and the rest of the score.

 

  • Was all the additional material (that was not present in the film) in “Befriending the Hippogriff” intended for that scene or is there other stuff in there? There’s so much music after the point where the cue stops in the film and not enough time for it all to appear in the scene. I’m sure Williams may have written to an earlier cut, but thought I’d ask if any of it is actually for something else. This is my only problem with deviation from the chronology of things / combining cues. It makes a tad harder to know what everything is. The presentation is still lovely however, I love a lot of the combos you guys came up with.

  • I assume that the very cool opening of “More Grim and Boggarts” is meant to be an alternate of “You Have The Grim”, correct?

  • I am a bit perplexed by the “The Three Broomsticks” track. So, am I right in assuming that the opening 40 seconds is “Up The Stairs”? I assume Pettigrew’s motif was again tracked in to appear multiple times vs the one time it appears here. I ask for confirmation on what the opening was, because this track is very well blended to create a nice cohesive combo of these cues. I was having some difficulty figuring out where there was a split, if there even was a split, or if it was recorded altogether and moved around in the film. Bravo to you guys for this one. Great mixture.

  • Another question on “The Three Broomsticks” cue. The film has a much more reserved / somber ending. 3:07 and onward don’t seem to appear in the film at all (with the exception of 3:30-End appearing with the choir only). Is this more somber ending hiding somewhere on the set / Tracked from elsewhere? Or is that another case of the sound guys coming up with something / remixing the cue?

  • Oh! Is this cool little extension from 2:36-End in “Buckbeak’s Fate and the Marauder’s Map” the Reveal Your Secret cue from the sheets that wasn’t used in the film? I really dig it!

Thats all I have for now. I’m sure there will be more to come. Again, what a wonderful piece of art. 

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5 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 

Missing frequencies, missing “a”s, inaccurate information. Disaster of a release. Next thing someone will discover a picture of a fanged frisbee in the booklets with no teeth! 

If only the release was delayed 5 times this year they could've fixed these!

 

(says I jokingly if it wasn't clear)

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