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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


Jay

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5 hours ago, Datameister said:

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but did anyone catch the opening to "The Daily Prophet", AKA "Mail Drop"? The first two measures aren't in the sheet music or sessions leaks...sounds like a slower version of the first two written measures, with many of the instruments removed. I wonder what the story there is.

 

Indeed, as you say, it's just the first two measures with many of the instruments removed. We cannot know the reasons for these changes with certainty, but there are several possibilities:

 

- maybe JW decided at the sessions that he wanted a faster tempo with respect to what he had thought when he was composing the cue, so he needed to add a couple of measures to fit the whole scene;

- maybe he and the director decided that the music should start a few seconds earlier than planned earlier, so he had to fill those extra seconds with some neutral music;

- maybe the scene was slightly changed and this affected the duration of the music;

- maybe those extra measures helped in getting some synchro points right;

- ...

 

Small edits like this one happen quite often. Also in Azkaban, for example, but also in many other scores, such as Star Wars. Another example: in the track "Harry is a Parselmouth" (= 5M2 Harry on the Mountain) from COS, bar 12 is slowed down at half tempo (musically speaking, I find this choice awful), then some of the last bars are edited out. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hedwig's Theme for Harp is a highlight!

 

The rest of the extras for PS is not that exciting. The trailer/teaser/commercial stuff is mostly just repetitions of what we already had. I don't understand all the fuss about it.

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25 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Hedwig's Theme for Harp is a highlight!

 

The rest of the extras for PS is not that exciting. The trailer/teaser/commercial stuff is mostly just repetitions of what we already had. I don't understand all the fuss about it.

 

The trailers contained the first ever recordings of what we know now as Hedwig’s Theme. Their inclusion is very significant for those of us who were around when they came out and we heard this incredible music for the first time.

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2 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

"The Stone" is fantastic. What does this track accompany?

Nothing special, Hermione telling Harry that Voldemort can't hurt him as long as Dumbledore is in the school. The climax was cut from the film, only the beginning/ending were partially used.

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7 hours ago, Score said:

 

Indeed, as you say, it's just the first two measures with many of the instruments removed. We cannot know the reasons for these changes with certainty, but there are several possibilities:

 

- maybe JW decided at the sessions that he wanted a faster tempo with respect to what he had thought when he was composing the cue, so he needed to add a couple of measures to fit the whole scene;

- maybe he and the director decided that the music should start a few seconds earlier than planned earlier, so he had to fill those extra seconds with some neutral music;

- maybe the scene was slightly changed and this affected the duration of the music;

- maybe those extra measures helped in getting some synchro points right;

- ...

 

Small edits like this one happen quite often. Also in Azkaban, for example, but also in many other scores, such as Star Wars. Another example: in the track "Harry is a Parselmouth" (= 5M2 Harry on the Mountain) from COS, bar 12 is slowed down at half tempo (musically speaking, I find this choice awful), then some of the last bars are edited out. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, this stuff happens all the time. I'm guessing in this case it had to do with the VFX shots not being done when they spotted the film. The tempo thing is what really puzzles me, especially since the film features a consistent tempo while the album features that abrupt tempo change. If anything, I would have expected the reverse.

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2 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

Sure, this stuff happens all the time. I'm guessing in this case it had to do with the VFX shots not being done when they spotted the film. The tempo thing is what really puzzles me, especially since the film features a consistent tempo while the album features that abrupt tempo change. If anything, I would have expected the reverse.

 

Ah, I see (and hear). I thought you were mostly referring to the fact that there were extra-bars. Indeed, the abrupt tempo change is very strange. 

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@Jay Do you happen to know what the hell is going on with the film edit of "The Confrontation Scene" in PoA? Some parts of the recorded cue were used of course and there's also Pettigrew material tracked in, but in addition there's some other areas that don't seem to come from the original recording. Tracked from elsewhere I suppose. However, there is a section from the end of the La La Land version (specifically from 5:32-6:03) that seems to match a portion used earlier in the scene. However, I thought it was pitch shifted, but it sounds more like a new performance though. They've really butchered the hell out of this. Just wondering if you had more insight here. Were there any pick-ups or inserts recorded (specifically of Confrontation Scene material, I already know all Pettigrew material is tracked) or is it truly just a tracked nightmare?

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I'd need to take a listen to the scene again, but I seem to recall the tracking being pretty straightforward...been a long while, though.

 

I just finished my first listen of SS on this release. A fantastic job, clearly. My only disappointment is the omission of some of the trailer music. But it's a small nitpick against an otherwise beautiful release. Even more excited for POA now...but first comes COS. Meh. 😉

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44 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't remember exactly what the film did to that cue, but in general any new versions or inserts used in the final cut are all on the album, of course. 

 

Alrighty. XD. It's just driving me crazy. Can't seem to nail down the tracking for it.

2 hours ago, Datameister said:

I'd need to take a listen to the scene again, but I seem to recall the tracking being pretty straightforward...been a long while, though.

 

I just finished my first listen of SS on this release. A fantastic job, clearly. My only disappointment is the omission of some of the trailer music. But it's a small nitpick against an otherwise beautiful release. Even more excited for POA now...but first comes COS. Meh. 😉

 

I thought it was too, but I've hit some confusing patches.

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One of the strangest things in Azkaban is the past theme playing over the beginning of Lupin's Transformation. Was that an intentional overlay?

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I'm not up to that part yet but apparently yes, it's an overlay not an insert. 

 

Phwoar! The percussion at the start of Buckbeak's Flight is one of the most glorious things I've heard through my subwoofer. You can feel the power! 

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

One of the strangest things in Azkaban is the past theme playing over the beginning of Lupin's Transformation. Was that an intentional overlay?

 

It's come up a few times in this thread, and I anticipate a few more times due to the slow trickling of everyone catching up! But yes, it seems that it was an intentional overlay as the piece doesn't appear anywhere else in the score and I believe was written specifically for this scene. I've expressed my distaste for it but ultimately it's harmless, and nice to have on the set.

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50 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

But at least WB dared for a young, dynamic and interesting director for PoA.

 

Who also got a much fresher score from JW. Rowling should have pushed for less studio-savvy directors in the first place. Gilliam, i don't know...but both Cuaron and Newell handled their respective movies well enough (one hasn't to love Goblet, but Newell handled the whole teen sturm and drang very well).

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7 hours ago, Arpy said:

One of the strangest things in Azkaban is the past theme playing over the beginning of Lupin's Transformation. Was that an intentional overlay?

 

I really don’t have an issue with it at all. Never found that one odd. I’d definitely say it’s intentional.

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3 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Does anyone else hear a clicking noise at 0:39 in "Buckbeak Saves the Day / Watching the Past"? I don't know whether it is my CD or just a noise from the recording.

 

I think all the clicks are a part of a recording. They come so rhythmically and they're always in a place that makes sense with the music in mine.

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1 minute ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

I think all the clicks are a part of a recording. They come so rhythmically and they're always in a place that makes sense with the music in mine.

Normally. But this one seems so obvious that I think MM would have filtered it out. Check the track at 0:39 and tell me what you hear. I'm not sure about it.

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Multiple cues in the third act have a clock ticking sound effect overlaid very much intentionally, if that's what you two are on about.

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4 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Normally. But this one seems so obvious that I think MM would have filtered it out. Check the track at 0:39 and tell me what you hear. I'm not sure about it.

 

The clock starts back up at 0:30 on that track. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

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3 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

The clock starts back up at 0:30 on that track. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

It's not the clock. It is a background noise from the recording though - it is also audible on the OST.

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Maybe someone else already said it, but I noticed in the sessions the source music for the Leaky Cauldron and Hagrid's Flute both had the messed up ending,
while in this LLL release the ending is clean/cut/faded out. 

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55 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I seriously doubt Williams would have scored it without Columbus though.  Very unlikely with Cuaron and damn near impossible with someone like Terry Gilliam

 

Why? He obviously liked the book (and what it offered, lore-wise). The bigger problem would have been the opposition from guys like Gilliam. It was a high-profile gig and obviously Williams and Horner (and maybe a few others) got offers.

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15 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I was surprised! I expected the messed up endings. I’m glad clean versions of these cues existed and that that’s what MM went with, although they’re funny to hear in the sessions.

 

Agreed...wonderful to have both!

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Leaky Cauldron and Hagrid Plays the Flute were sloppy intentionally as source cues - in the pub, there's a sudden silence when people recognize Harry, the players would put down their instruments as well, and Hagrid's flute solo is interrupted when the gang approaches him. Apparently proper clean endings were recorded for these and they're on the set?

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I think they’re just cut, there’s no clean ending. Hagrid’s flute has a sloppy ending mid-Hedwig’s Theme, while on the boxset it ends right before. The Leaky Cauldron cue fades out before the sloppy ending.

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53 minutes ago, redishere said:

I think they’re just cut, there’s no clean ending. Hagrid’s flute has a sloppy ending mid-Hedwig’s Theme, while on the boxset it ends right before. The Leaky Cauldron cue fades out before the sloppy ending.

 

I haven't had a chance to closely compare the Leaky Cauldron stuff yet, so you might be right. But Hagrid's recorder definitely seems to have a previously unheard clean ending. (Unless they just edited in earlier parts of the cue to fake an ending? I'd have to check that, too.)

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2 hours ago, redishere said:

I think they’re just cut, there’s no clean ending. Hagrid’s flute has a sloppy ending mid-Hedwig’s Theme, while on the boxset it ends right before. The Leaky Cauldron cue fades out before the sloppy ending.

 

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

 

I haven't had a chance to closely compare the Leaky Cauldron stuff yet, so you might be right. But Hagrid's recorder definitely seems to have a previously unheard clean ending. (Unless they just edited in earlier parts of the cue to fake an ending? I'd have to check that, too.)

 

@Datameister is correct. The endings for both are not cut and include new material not present in the sloppy ending recordings from what I can see.

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(deep breath)

 

OK. I received my CDs three days ago and have listened to all of "Sorcerer's Stone" and the first disc of "Azkaban." More in a bit about why I'm avoiding "Chamber."

 

Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! Every second of the listening experience has been a joy. I am so thankful to have all of this music. Of course, the stuff we had on the original soundtracks were great, but all of this is just exciting to hear outside the films. For instance, getting the full version of "The Chess Game" was almost worth the money I paid for all seven CDs. It's the best action cue in all the films, and I was excited to get all of it and not feel cheated out of the scene's conclusion in a musical sense. Plus, the percussion really booms! The real treat was getting the music from the Forbidden Forest scene in "Sorcerer's Stone." It has my favorite rendition of Voldemort's theme, and I was always sad that, until now, I could only hear it when watching the film.

 

I'm thrilled that I get the real versions of "Knight Bus" and "The Dementors Converge." How exciting that we get the ticking clock as heard in the film!

 

This seven-CD set is a masterpiece of work by everyone involved. I learned so much from the liner notes that I will be using in a project that I am birthing to the world in about a week. I have heard "The Quidditch Match" from "Sorcerer's Stone" hundreds of times, but for some reason I didn't pick that the main thematic material was the Hogwarts theme! I thought it was new thematic material for the scene. Amazing -- and thanks to Michael Mattesino and his team for helping me work through why I loved the music in that scene so much. Also, the analysis of the two themes for Voldemort were very helpful.

 

Now, for a couple of questions. In the invisibility cloak scene in "SS," there's a stinger when Snape turns back to Quirrell after swiping at invisible Harry. I didn't hear it in that cue on the new presentation. What's the explanation for that?

 

And, I noticed "Quidditch, Year Three" sounds faster on the new CD presentation than the original soundtrack. Is what we heard on the original soundtrack a slightly slowed-down version of what we hear on the "Soundtrack Collection" and if so, why?

 

Now, here's my issue with "Chamber of Secrets." It's exactly what most of you feel, that the sequel is "Harry Potter 2: Lost In New York." The new material was always lost to me in the retread of new material, and because I hated the film, my opinion of the music was clouded by that. I'm going to wait a while to experience "Chamber of Secrets" on the CDs.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Trumpeteer said:

Now, for a couple of questions. In the invisibility cloak scene in "SS," there's a stinger when Snape turns back to Quirrell after swiping at invisible Harry. I didn't hear it in that cue on the new presentation. What's the explanation for that? 

That's edited in from another cue, I can't remember exactly which one off the top of my head. I'm sure someone else does.

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7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Wow, Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack surprised me! It's really different in the film. Lots of tracking, clearly. 

 

Yup. They dialed out a ton of it. Moved stuff around, and there’s some stingers or overlays I can’t quite figure out. Right now I’ve got Aunt Marge Points the Finger pitch-shifted and subbed in for those as it sounds close enough.

 

1 hour ago, Trumpeteer said:

(deep breath)

 

OK. I received my CDs three days ago and have listened to all of "Sorcerer's Stone" and the first disc of "Azkaban." More in a bit about why I'm avoiding "Chamber."

 

Now, here's my issue with "Chamber of Secrets." It's exactly what most of you feel, that the sequel is "Harry Potter 2: Lost In New York." The new material was always lost to me in the retread of new material, and because I hated the film, my opinion of the music was clouded by that. I'm going to wait a while to experience "Chamber of Secrets" on the CDs.

 

 

 

Great reactions. Glad you’re enjoying your set!

 

I’m one of the ones around here who actually adores the Chamber of Secrets score, possibly more than HP1. I’m also one to think Home Alone 2 is the better score as well so yeah. I love the performances on the Chamber of Secrets score. I certainly hope you give it a fair shot! 

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1 hour ago, TSMefford said:

Yup. They dialed out a ton of it. Moved stuff around, and there’s some stingers or overlays I can’t quite figure out. Right now I’ve got Aunt Marge Points the Finger pitch-shifted and subbed in for those as it sounds close enough.

 

The music for Harry disarming Snape sounds different too, but I can't put my finger on it. Might need a rewatch of the film.

 

The most obvious section of tracking is from The Marauder's Map, right as Lupin and Sirius are about to kill Pettigrew (but Harry intervenes). Also, the climax of the film version (as Pettigrew chews his fingers) seems to be 2:30-2:37 from The Marauder's Map.

 

Very effective tracking, I must say. Kudos to the music editor (was it Kenny Wannberg on these films?)

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1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

That's edited in from another cue, I can't remember exactly which one off the top of my head. I'm sure someone else does.

Tracked and hacked up overlay from The Chess Game.

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6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

 

@Datameister is correct. The endings for both are not cut and include new material not present in the sloppy ending recordings from what I can see.

 

Thanks, I definitely need to check those again... I remember listening to both and saying “wait, something is missing”, but it could also mean something new was added!

 

Another question (sorry if it was already discussed): is the opening for The Daily Prophet slowed down? Or was it sped up in the movie and in the sessions? Was the sessions cue a different take? It sure is extended in the boxset! 

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

Wow, Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack surprised me! It's really different in the film. Lots of tracking, clearly. 

I like that they tracked the menacing tubas from the end of the cue to the spot, when Sirius is threatened by Snape. It appears twice now, when someone is talking about the dementors.

 

In general the film edits were done so professionally that you don't really hear any of them.

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