Jump to content
Jay

Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

Recommended Posts

Interesting again. In the score can see at least 2 old types of sounding of the Time Turner. The earliest version can be seen in cue 7M1A (on LLL Saving Buckbeak (Alternate Segment)). Clock sounds have a separate line written out, and he basically duplicated other instruments (I made a mockup of this version).

2020-05-17 15_29_42-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png
Then, the second version can be seen in 7M1 (track Time Past, Saving Buckbeak - 2:42-5:25). There is no definite pitch here, and it sounds only in quarter notes (except for syncopation, which look very strange).

2020-05-18 18_34_26-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

But in one place, the sound seems to be changing a little.

               2020-05-18 18_12_31-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

In 6M7 (same track 0:00-2:42), the final version is already indicated, which sounds in the film and in the soundtrack. And this "ticking" sounds instead of all previous versions.

2020-05-17 15_28_07-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

It is possible that during the production process there were other versions of time turner. It's funny to imagine that the composer/orchestrators wrote music designed for a different clock sound, but the final version still sounds good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ragoz350 said:

Interesting again. In the score can see at least 2 old types of sounding of the Time Turner. The earliest version can be seen in cue 7M1A (on LLL Saving Buckbeak (Alternate Segment)). Clock sounds have a separate line written out, and he basically duplicated other instruments (I made a mockup of this version).

2020-05-17 15_29_42-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png
Then, the second version can be seen in 7M1 (track Time Past, Saving Buckbeak - 2:42-5:25). There is no definite pitch here, and it sounds only in quarter notes (except for syncopation, which look very strange).

2020-05-18 18_34_26-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

But in one place, the sound seems to be changing a little.

               2020-05-18 18_12_31-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

In 6M7 (same track 0:00-2:42), the final version is already indicated, which sounds in the film and in the soundtrack. And this "ticking" sounds instead of all previous versions.

2020-05-17 15_28_07-POA-notfullscore1.pdf - SumatraPDF.png

It is possible that during the production process there were other versions of time turner. It's funny to imagine that the composer/orchestrators wrote music designed for a different clock sound, but the final version still sounds good.

 

I will just make note that while working on cutting the film versions of these cues that the ticking does actually vary in sound slightly. In order to loop in some ticking not including on the LLL release I couldn't simply pull from the cleanest ticking sound from anywhere in the track. It didn't match. I can try to grab some audio examples soon.

 

Disregard. Seems to be more an EQ thing. Not really a different sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a mockup of one of the POA cues, which initially did not have WttP theme. This is the second scene of Harry's conversation with Lupin, after quidditch match (cue 4M3+4 New).
Interestingly, initially there should have been a slower tempo (and the scene apparently should have been longer). Perhaps the decision to add WttP theme here was made very late, so I have a conspiracy theory that the horn player at the beginning of the music mistakenly starts playing at the old tempo, but then he corrects it (since the beginning is the same in both versions). 

In my mockup, I still set a faster tempo, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jay said:

IIRC JW re-recorded the Music Box opening along with the rest of the cue (that he wrote)

 

Yes that is correct. See below @ragoz350:

Quote

Here's a quote from the old old old Magic Box Music website. Magic Box Music is now one with Brand X Music. At the time, I believe this was just composers John Sponsler and Tom Gire. Here, specifically, they are referring to the Double Trouble teaser:

We were starting to feel like Potter was old hat by this point, until we heard that a John Williams “song” would be included in the trailer. After many attempts, the studio decided that John would score the trailer, but it would include an intro written by Magic Box, and re-recorded by John Williams as part of the trailer. So wait…. John Williams was going to be conducting and recording a piece that we had composed? Crazy! To top it all off, we were able to attend the session and watch him do it. A signed copy of the score hangs in our studio to this day. We went on to score several International spots for this film, one of which garnered a nomination for “Best Music” at the Golden Trailer Awards.

 

And the attached photo:

MB_JWnews.jpg

 

So it sounds as if they were working on a custom score for the trailer, but eventually WB (rightfully) decided to have Williams do it, but they must've liked that Intro cue, so they kept it and integrated it into the final recording of the cue.

 

I have found zero info on the other trailer cue other than the composer, unfortunately. Speaking of which:

5 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Wait a minute:

Why aren't these composers cited in the booklet?

 

As far as I recall, these cues were kind of just there on the hard drive Mike was given is that correct @Jay? It's possible that, for whatever reason, the trailer composers were just not listed on the files. 

 

I mean, John Williams is still the main composer of "Teaser", and considering the Magic Box/Brand X Music cue was re-recorded anyways it might have simply been attributed to Williams. It's far more understandable how it might have happened in that case, because while the composers do deserve credit (I've added them in my metadata), their role was very minor.

 

Honestly though, as far "Trailer" is concerned, I am surprised it was included at all on the set. Don't get me wrong, as a bit of a completest myself, it's nice to have (even though it turned out to just be on the guy's website anyways), but it's apparently just original music by Daniel Nielsen, followed by a slightly different mix (but identical recording) of "Reunion of Friends" from COS. Could've just been a lack of info or memory on WB's part, considering it was one trailer from 2004.

 

And again, I just happened to stumble across who composed it while looking for something entirely unrelated to Potter and the Magic Box info itself was quite a chore to dig back up.  I'm not surprised they’re not listed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't speak to the process of what music got to Mike and how, or how it was decided what gets credited and what doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I can't speak to the process of what music got to Mike and how, or how it was decided what gets credited and what doesn't.  That's all well above my paygrade.

 

Gotcha. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we got that the trailer was just in the batch he got and he put it on there because there was space so why not from one of the audio interviews?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Holko said:

I think we got that the trailer was just in the batch he got and he put it on there because there was space so why not from one of the audio interviews?

 

Ah okay. I was wondering where I'd heard that story from! I could've sworn that someone had said something like that.

 

But yeah if it was just kind of there and included as a "Why not" thing, then I would guess the additional composers weren't listed on the files. I assume it doesn't matter too much, I highly doubt they needed permission from the trailer composers to include it or anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

I was wondering where I'd heard that story from! I could've sworn that someone had said something like that.

 

Jay addressed this once upon a time:

  

On 12/15/2018 at 12:47 PM, Jay said:

I have no idea when it was "recorded", and I'm pretty sure its just music from a trailer house seguing into the Reunion of Friends recording from HPCOS.  It was included in the archives WB sent over, so Mike put it at the end of the album to both be comprehensive and to give the album, and the entire set, a "big finish".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2020 at 1:17 PM, TSMefford said:
  • John Sponsler & Tom Gire wrote the intro to Teaser under the "Magic Box Music" label. A new version of the intro, on it's own, can now be found titled Anticipation by Brand X Music, and was also used in the logo teaser for Half-Blood Prince.
  •  

 

I know these two guys. They worked with the Remote Control team on Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End writing additional material, and maybe other scores credited to Zimmer.

 

Some of my favorite cues of the AWE's score was by them, including 7m43a v2 Maelstrom (Part 1), 7m43b Getting the Chest and 8m44b v5 Maelstrom (Part 2).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize for the stupid question, but are the mockups of unreleased music from POA known?

I just started making my bad mockups because I wanted to know how it all sounds, but I didn’t find any other mockups lol :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen some other Azkaban mockups posted before.  They aren't on earlier pages of that thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This board doesn't have a delete post feature so maybe there were posted in one of the many Azkaban threads, or maybe they were just shared privately, I don't remember.  All the more reason to keep making your great ones!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 

I know these two guys. They worked with the Remote Control team on Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End writing additional material, and maybe other scores credited to Zimmer.

 

Some of my favorite cues of the AWE's score was by them, including 7m43a v2 Maelstrom (Part 1), 7m43b Getting the Chest and 8m44b v5 Maelstrom (Part 2).

 

Yep! That's them. They also did some work on the National Treasure 2 score, which is where I first became familiar with them. They have composed numerous other pieces of original music (without John Williams material) for the Potter trailers under both the Magic Box Music and Brand X Music identities. Pretty much, if you've seen a major Potter trailer, you've heard some of their work, especially on Half-Blood Prince:

  • "Anticipation" - Prisoner of Azkaban, Half-Blood Prince
  • "Progeny" - Prisoner of Azkaban
  • "The Quest" - Goblet of Fire
  • "Slay The Dragon" - Goblet of Fire
  • "Wake The Dead" - Goblet of Fire
  • "Immortality Awaits" - Goblet of Fire
  • "Mighty Fist" - Order of the Phoenix
  • "The Realm Beyond" - Order of the Phoenix
  • "Twisted Tales / Bittersweet Dreams" - Half-Blood Prince
  • "Fantastic Realm" - Half-Blood Prince
  • "Last Chance" - Half-Blood Prince
  • "Curious Developments" - Half-Blood Prince
  • "Night of the Sorcerer" - Half-Blood Prince
  • "Sorcerer's Secret" - Half-Blood Prince, Deathly Hallows
  • "All or Nothing" - Deathly Hallows
  • "Dragon's Demise" - Deathly Hallows

All of these ended up being released on their industry albums throughout the years, but there's some music, especially for Half-Blood Prince, that's never been released. If LLL ends up doing the other scores, I hope some more of their work gets included. It's trailer music, but I enjoy that sort of thing in smaller doses. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put the old unreleased version of Summoning the Patronus (last part) in the movie scene. And it looks... weird. Interestingly, was it only Williams who presented the summon of patronus as something dramatic, or did Cuaron also think so at an early stage of production?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Williams read the first book before? Just watched the Interview from the "Across the Stars" special edition again. Regarding "Hedwig's Theme" he says he hadn't read the first Harry Potter book.

However, in the liner notes of the expanded music for the sorcerer's stone there is an interview excerpt where Williams says he had read the book before. What is true now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of Williams's go-to anecdotes for the press was that he doesn't like to read scripts before he works on a movie, but that in this case he read the book before he even knew a movie was in production.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. He even wrote the teaser (essentially Hedwig's Theme without Nimbus 2000) before seeing the film itself, mostly based on his memories of the book probably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gkgyver said:

That's how all composers should work. Get inspirations from the book or the script, artwork, instead of trying to draw inspiration from the depressing reality that is most movies. 

 

I've done the script approach before...then got the first cut delivered to me...and let's just say it's almost as if the Director and I read a completely different script. The script I found quite inspiring to compose to and had written a lot of material based on it. The rough cut was not even close to what I had pictured when I read the script. It was...not good.

 

Honestly, I still feel horrid about wasting such good inspiration and (in my opinion) pretty decent music on what ended up being a very poor film. Doesn't always work out XD. Huge regret of mine.

 

EDIT: Actually I take that back. My first clue was when I visited the set and found it very incompetent. It was only confirmed by the rough cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TSMefford said:

Honestly, I still feel horrid about wasting such good inspiration and (in my opinion) pretty decent music on what ended up being a very poor film. Doesn't always work out XD. Huge regret of mine.

Plenty of excellent composers wrote great music for dodgy films.

Sounds like you're in good company. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed an interesting thing in the music for the Prisoner of Azkaban. In addition to the main theme of Sirius, tremolos of solo string instruments (sorry for eng) sound in some scenes (Shunpike talks about Sirius, Dumbledore warns about dementors and Black; dementors themselves (Apparition on the Train)). Also, these tremolo of the violin and viola sounds in the scene with the map of marauders (when Harry discovers Pettigrew on the map). In this scene, Harry hopes to find Sirius, so Williams has inserted this material here (probably). Maybe this is also a peculiar leittheme associated with Sirius?..

 

I also think that Williams considered the leitmotif of Pettigrew simply as a “mystical” leitmotif that intonationally resembles Sirius' main leittheme. And then shortly before the release, Cuaron (or someone else) decided to assign the theme to Pettigrew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, ragoz350 said:

also think that Williams considered the leitmotif of Pettigrew simply as a “mystical” leitmotif that intonationally resembles Sirius' main leittheme. And then shortly before the release, Cuaron (or someone else) decided to assign the theme to Pettigrew.

That's the stance many of us take here, what with it being tracked over the latter portion of Shrieking Shack and almost comically tracked into Werewolf Scene etc. In a similar vein of looser connections, I'd say those strigs are just a device he uses in the score for darkness coming or similar moments, it's not necessarily a direct character association, he's no Wagner or Shore, even when a theme has a direct intended purpose and connection he can be pretty liberal with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Holko said:

That's the stance many of us take here, what with it being tracked over the latter portion of Shrieking Shack and almost comically tracked into Werewolf Scene etc. In a similar vein of looser connections, I'd say those strigs are just a device he uses in the score for darkness coming or similar moments, it's not necessarily a direct character association, he's no Wagner or Shore, even when a theme has a direct intended purpose and connection he can be pretty liberal with it.

Yeah I also think that strings do not represent a specific character. It’s just that string sometimes form chromatic motifs similar to these leitthemes. Perhaps Williams, after he wrote the Aunt Marge's Waltz, decided to build the leitmotif system of the film based on the first oboe (and then string) motive of this waltz :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Riding the Hippogriff supposedly was; the percussion bit is just an insert that was supposed to completely overwrite it like in the movie but on the OST JW shifted it forward instead it so the second half of the original opening is still there, and Mike either replicated it on the LLL or the OST was the only or only good source available. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...