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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

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17 minutes ago, Holko said:

Riding the Hippogriff supposedly was; the percussion bit is just an insert that was supposed to completely overwrite it like in the movie but on the OST JW shifted it forward instead it so the second half of the original opening is still there, and Mike either replicated it on the LLL or the OST was the only or only good source available. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

It's funny that there are at least two versions of the opening with percussion (OST and the one from "Mischief Managed"). I wonder why so?

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Question about the new A New Broomstick mock-up, which sounds awesome: This mock-up segues from the firebolt music into Double Trouble and omits the Hedwig's Theme version on horns, which makes it sound very natural. So did MM put that horn statement in the alternate just because it was an alternate recording of those horns, or because it really was recorded that way? I still think it sounds weird. The revised film version makes the transition sound very natural because that firebolt music ends on a cliffhanger, but this alternate version seems to be intended to go straight into Double Trouble, as this mock-up does.

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2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Question about the new A New Broomstick mock-up, which sounds awesome: This mock-up segues from the firebolt music into Double Trouble and omits the Hedwig's Theme version on horns, which makes it sound very natural. So did MM put that horn statement in the alternate just because it was an alternate recording of those horns, or because it really was recorded that way? I still think it sounds weird. The revised film version makes the transition sound very natural because that firebolt music ends on a cliffhanger, but this alternate version seems to be intended to go straight into Double Trouble, as this mock-up does.

I think that in LLL-release the second version of this cue (the first might not have been recorded). The first version was written according to the old script - Harry initially had to portray as if the broom was not working. And apparently, it was previously assumed that the credits begin immediately after the scene. Then, at the time of recording, the scene was reduced and the first half of the cue was rewritten, and the credits became "different", but Williams didn't rewrite the second half of cue and kept the last chord...

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3 hours ago, ragoz350 said:

Percussion intro to Cadogan can perhaps be extracted from 5.1/7.1 audio of the film... As for "Points the Finger" - I'll try.

 

Did Williams compose this, or was it created by the sound editors?

 

Thanks for sharing these mockups, ragoz350! I'm enjoying them.

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On 6/17/2020 at 9:49 AM, bollemanneke said:

Could you possibly do Aunt Marge Points the Finger as written (we only have a version with sound effects)


Wasn’t that on a DVD or Blu-Ray menu at some point? I can’t remember if it was clean or not.

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On 6/17/2020 at 11:41 PM, Smeltington said:

 

Did Williams compose this, or was it created by the sound editors?

 

Thanks for sharing these mockups, ragoz350! I'm enjoying them.

The Cadogan percussion was a later addition by the sound editors.

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I still can't get "3M13 - Sir Cardogan "for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion"" out of my mind though, because the released version has no percussion and 3M13 is the non-tracked version composed for where it would be, after Great Hall Ceiling.

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7 hours ago, Holko said:

I still can't get "3M13 - Sir Cardogan "for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion"" out of my mind though, because the released version has no percussion and 3M13 is the non-tracked version composed for where it would be, after Great Hall Ceiling.

Perhaps a podium change to remove the percussion element and tambourine from the piece?

 

Or this is like the shawm cue that JW didn't just simply want to include on the set.

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13 minutes ago, Holko said:

Before it was even recorded but after it was written... then restored anyway for one version by sound editors?

Who knows and frankly missing that bit isn't once again such a big thing but then again people still clamor for the shawm stuff.

 

And true the original version has the percussion + tambourine written in and continues underneath the whole short cue but the film version for the Headless Hunt scene opens with different percussion and then continues with the Sir Cadogan version without the percussion.

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1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Who knows and frankly missing that bit isn't once again such a big thing but then again people still clamor for the shawm stuff.

 

And true the original version has the percussion + tambourine written in and continues underneath the whole short cue but the film version for the Headless Hunt scene opens with different percussion and then continues with the Sir Cadogan version without the percussion.

That's not entirely correct. Once the Sir Cadogan cue starts after the Hippogriff lesson, the movie retains the percussion and uses a different take of that cue. When it plays in the finale of the movie, there is no percussion. (I want that isolated score!)

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43 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

That's not entirely correct. Once the Sir Cadogan cue starts after the Hippogriff lesson, the movie retains the percussion and uses a different take of that cue. When it plays in the finale of the movie, there is no percussion. (I want that isolated score!)

 

I believe that second version at the end is just slowed down artificially, something the SFX guys did. 

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Actually it's the first version,with the percussion, that's slower. But yeah I think the speed thing is just a change in post too, and the different section is just taken from the reprise in the full take (both film versions only play the section before the bridge but the slower+percussion one uses the opening of the post-bridge reprise's opening then proceeds with the pre-bridge statement)

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How were those cues handled in the LTP? Did they perform these cues live and, if so, did they have live percussion? 

 

Would be a strange addition, considering the SFX guys were responsible. 

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15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

How were those cues handled in the LTP? Did they perform these cues live and, if so, did they have live percussion? 

 

The live to project concerts exactly match what you hear in the film, except IIRC the end credits end after aunt marge's waltz and don't have the final hedwig and harpichord stuff

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What do you mean?  He asked if they featured the percussion, and I answered that the performances exactly match what you hear in the film

 

The only music in the film not performed live by the orchestra is whatever is coming out of the TV at the beginning, and the records Lupin plays

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44 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

I believe that second version at the end is just slowed down artificially, something the SFX guys did. 

I don't think it's a good idea to say the SFX guys did everything the set is lacking...

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3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

This is probably going to be a strange observation, but I realised something yesterday evening. When I was going through bits and pieces of HP1 right before going to bed, it suddenly struck me yet again that these scores are masterpieces and more importantly, that I unwittingly spent more time focusing on the presentation of these scores than on their actual contents. I need to try and appreciate the magic instilled in these cues much more.

 

Great observation. I agree. I tend to get too caught up in the editing and "film versions" myself sometimes. They're absolutely marvelous scores and I of course greatly appreciate the marvelous work done by La-La Land to get us nearly complete versions of these scores in an official capacity. Regardless of any perceived shortcomings, I will never forget the awesome feeling eagerly hitting the refresh button on their Facebook page and it finally revealing Potter and going crazy on the forums with everyone. It was really a dream come true, just to have a chance to hear the music cleanly as well as discover all the hidden new gems, but to also show my support for releases like this. I certainly hope they continue the rest of the series if possible.

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Since I helped Mike a bit on this set, I think I can safely say the primary goal was presenting the maestro's scores in the best possible way: To craft albums you can put on and press play and experience everything the score has to offer.  It was a secondary goal to include every last scrap of music recorded and finding a home for it, or adhering to strict chronology for every single cue.

 

A lot of discussion happens on forums like this specifically about some tiny missing moment or how to re-jigger or re-edit what was released to a different order or presentation, but overall in the grand scheme of the whole world, most people are just playing the albums as they are, and the composer, studio, and label are all happy with how it came out.

 

And yea, John Williams sure knocked the ball out of the park three times in a row here.  I never get tired of re-entering this world.

 

Indeed. I have the edits for myself when I want them, but most of the time I listen to Potter now, it's just putting on this set, as is. We can complain all we'd like about what didn't make it, but you guys did a fantastic job with the set, truly. 

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Having said that, Jay, are we any closer to a JWfan interview with Mike (or to your own HP3 spreadsheet)? I would really love to hear more about who chose the track combinations in HP3 and why, what JW requested, why crossfades like Ransacked Dormitory and Petrified Hermione happened, or what Mike would have done had he had 3 discs for HP2 and 3 (track splits etc.). In short, three more Tim Burden podcasts on this set or a good long book.

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These expansions are such a labor of love and fan wish fulfillment that I sometimes forget they are official releases completely authorized by JW haha. They still feel like bootlegs, considering they are pretty under the radar with such a limited group of people buying and discussing them en masse. But it's just awesome that he's finally being wooed into these things.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I think Mike prefers doing audio discussions with Maurizio or other podcasters now, over written interviews.  Maybe some day that will change

 

I should finish my HP3 spreadsheet, I made good progress a while back then never finished.

 

The only request JW had was to put the version of Harry's Wondrous World with concert ending (recorded during HP2) in the Children's Suite instead of the HP1 recording.  He also requested the concert ending of Diagon Alley, but we verified it was never recorded at the HP1 (or HP2) sessions.

 

The programming decisions were 100% Mike.  He made the albums he wanted and then JW approved them.


We never discussed 3CD versions of HP2 or HP3 because it wasn't an option

Great news about the HP3 spreadsheet.

 

Yes, someone (the LSO or the LSO) really needs to record Diagon Alley as published.

 

Very interesting to read about JW's requests.

 

Why were HP2 and 3 on 3 CDs never an option? Not enough material to justify that treatment or LLL budget reasons?

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I think there wasn't enough music to really warrant the additional cost and additional price they'd have to charge if they went that route

 

If they ever revisit these as separate releases, I'd love to redo 2 and 3 as 3 disc sets this time (and expand what's on disc 3 of HP1)

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I think Mike prefers doing audio discussions with Maurizio or other podcasters now, over written interviews.  Maybe some day that will change

Aw shucks, those text interviews were great and always went deeper into more specific info than most of these podcasts do (especially when rolling multiple releases into one episode), even if they're still always very good.

Just now, Jay said:

and expand what's on disc 3 of HP1)

Ooh! What else is there beside the complete Leaky Cauldron take, film version take of Hagrid's Flute and the complete original consistent tempo Mail Drop?

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Nothing you don't already have access to; The album track "Christmas at Hogwarts" with its unique take of the ghosts singing, the session leak version of Diagon Alley without the Insert inserted, stuff like that.  There's no hidden gems in the archives that nobody knows about or anything

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On 6/22/2020 at 11:00 PM, Incanus said:

The Cadogan percussion was a later addition by the sound editors.


So, I’ve seen this referenced a few times, but what’s the source?
 

A score hasn’t leaked, but there’s a recorder part for 3M5-5A “Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again” from the sessions that shows rests the same length as what used in the film at this point including the percussion intro (24 bars of 2/4) and unlike 3M13 “Sir Cadaogan”, there’s a fermata on the last note which could explain the slight slowdown at the end.

 

6944BBEF-0339-4FF3-92BF-ABA9938B9A73.jpeg

While this has a similar appearance to the LTP parts, this appears to be from the original sessions. Note the 2/29/04 date at the bottom left.

 

Isn’t the simplest explanation that this is just “Sir Cadogan Again” as written, which just happens to be only slightly different from “Sir Cadogan”? Note that the live-to-projection version also uses “Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again” title, rather than “Sir Cadogan”.

 

Incidentally, this part wasn’t actually used.

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