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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


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The whole thing is still surreal to me, that I would even be asked to work on something so large and important!  The whole thing came together extremely quickly (especially for 7 discs / 8 hours of mu

This set is the best album I have ever bought. It’s still unreal to me that all of my favourite music from my childhood is newly remastered and released. I’ve been looking forward to discussing every

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.   The little 10 s

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Thanks! Added.

 

You must have a sheet leak the rest of us don't have!

 

Anything else juicy in there?

 

It's nearly the same as the other leak, apart from including that alternate intro and a handful of individual parts, mostly for recorder, including 3M5-5A Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again, which we haven't yet seen a score or sketch for.

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4 hours ago, Alex said:

Do we know why another intro for Aunt Marge’s Waltz was recorded?

 

Someone thought the music wasn't working an a different approach would be better, I guess.

 

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(Thank you Jay for all your hard work)

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

4 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

@Jay Also worth noting that 4M2A Quidditch Ending replaces the ending of 4M2 Quidditch 2004, as written. Are you certain they were recorded separately? I was guessing the new ending had been incorporated into the cue prior to recording, as sometimes happens with inserts.

 

The BMI cue list lists them separately!

 

I don't know what you mean by "replacing" anything though.  Can you elaborate?

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Oh interesting!  I'll have to put that in the section of music only seen in the sheets, and someone should make a mockup!

 

Question, is the timestamp where the recording switches from what's shown in the sheets to different material 3:04 (using OST / LLL disc 2 track), or some other point?

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Oh right, that IS what the BMI tab shows, my bad.

 

It actually does sound a bit different to me. On their way to the pub, the 'now in 'Winter's Spell's upon you now' sounds a bit sloppy, like in the LLL track. But then, when Harry's leaving the pub, the 'now' sounds much more polished, it even seems to have an extra high note, C.

 

So 4m8 and 9 (pub source) were recorded as one cue too?

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4 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh right, that IS what the BMI tab shows, my bad.

 

S'all good man

 

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It actually does sound a bit different to me. On their way to the pub, the 'now in 'Winter's Spell's upon you now' sounds a bit sloppy, like in the LLL track. But then, when Harry's leaving the pub, the 'now' sounds much more polished, it even seems to have an extra high note, C.

 

I've never seen any evidence that more than one version of Winter's Spell exists, but I suppose anything in possible!

 

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So 4m8 and 9 (pub source) were recorded as one cue too?

 

It's hard to tell but it sounds to me like the same cue used twice.  Like it doesn't continue where it left off once he goes inside, it starts over.  But it's almost impossible to hear in the film mix

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17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Question, is the timestamp where the recording switches from what's shown in the sheets to different material 3:04 (using OST / LLL disc 2 track), or some other point?

 

Yep, from that spot on (starting with the cymbal crash and brass) it no longer matches the full score we have.

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On 6/17/2020 at 5:58 PM, ragoz350 said:

So, I made a playlist where I collected all my POA mockups. Most of them I spammed published in mockup-thread. Looks like I didn’t do just String Overlay... 

In some mockups, I cut out parts that don't differ from the final version (I wrote about this in square brackets).

 

Btw I was making a mockup of the old ending of Quidditch 2004 (it's somewhere in this playlist, soundcloud doesn't allow me to share tracks). 

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17 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Yep, from that spot on (starting with the cymbal crash and brass) it no longer matches the full score we have.

 

Thanks!

 

6 minutes ago, ragoz350 said:

Btw I was making a mockup of the old ending of Quidditch 2004 (it's somewhere in this playlist, soundcloud doesn't allow me to share tracks). 

 

Woah that ending is interesting!

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One final question and then I'm done (for the night). It's about the end credits.

 

The spreadsheet says they start at 0:53 of the LLL track. Is that how they were recorded, though? Because, as I recall, Datameister's old edit labelled 0:53-1:04 of that track as a separately recorded insert. I think he was right too, because the OST starts from that point on (1:04 of the LLL track) and the transition between The Firebolt and the credits is done very clumsily too, making me believe that they forgot to include that insert (0:53-1:04).

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@Jay Incredible spreadsheet! However, I would really add a few colours to the LLL Breakdown, because it is not easy to look at with all these stripes. I really wonder, why so many people preferred that version of the visual presentation.

 

Apart from that, the way you presented what the LLL contains should be the way to do it! Very elaborate!

 

Oh, and the album version of The Dementors Converge is really a brain twister, like John Williams wanted to make things even more complicated.

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3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

One final question and then I'm done (for the night). It's about the end credits.

 

The spreadsheet says they start at 0:53 of the LLL track. Is that how they were recorded, though? Because, as I recall, Datameister's old edit labelled 0:53-1:04 of that track as a separately recorded insert. I think he was right too, because the OST starts from that point on (1:04 of the LLL track) and the transition between The Firebolt and the credits is done very clumsily too, making me believe that they forgot to include that insert (0:53-1:04).

 

The sheet music for the end credits starts at the 1:04 part. The sheet music for the music heard from 0:53-1:04 hasn't leaked. Whether they recorded the end credits as written and then later beefed it up with an insert, or more sheets were inserted before recording anything, I have no idea. 

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3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

@Jay Incredible spreadsheet! However, I would really add a few colours to the LLL Breakdown, because it is not easy to look at with all these stripes. I really wonder, why so many people preferred that version of the visual presentation.

 

I was surprised too, I thought the color option would win. I can add color. 

 

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Apart from that, the way you presented what the LLL contains should be the way to do it! Very elaborate!

 

Yea I think I'll start doing that for all scores.

 

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Oh, and the album version of The Dementors Converge is really a brain twister, like John Williams wanted to make things even more complicated.

 

I love that they (eventually) had the idea to use the same theme representing Harry's parents when Harry successfully conjures a patronus while training with Lupin, and then bring it back when he saves the day by conjuring another one at the end of the film. 

 

I don't know why JW thought it made sense to have the OST album also use that theme when Harry sees his future self doing it but doesn't understand yet what's going on. It seems logical to assume it was because Cuaron was planning on doing that in the film at the point the OST was locked, but I dunno, Cuaron seems unlikely to have wanted that to me. Maybe JW just liked the theme and wanted it on the album more. 

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I had another revelation yesterday evening about The Patronus Power. So the booklet claims it was an early demo for Harry's first successful Patronus. I believed that was a mistake and that it had to be part of 6M5AN, for good reason because it actually partly appears in the sheets for 6M5 Pt II. But: The Patronus Power reelly works if you paste the end of 4M14 The Dementor right after it. Only the beginning of 4M14 doesn't work in that track combination. It's really weird how confusing the recording of this score is.

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5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I had another revelation yesterday evening about The Patronus Power. So the booklet claims it was an early demo for Harry's first successful Patronus. I believed that was a mistake and that it had to be part of 6M5AN, for good reason because it actually partly appears in the sheets for 6M5 Pt II. But: The Patronus Power reelly works if you paste the end of 4M14 The Dementor right after it. Only the beginning of 4M14 doesn't work in that track combination. It's really weird how confusing the recording of this score is.

 

Interesting, so you're basically saying:

 

4M14 Dueling The Dementor (mockup video here) = Original cue, the first 30 seconds cover Harry successfully defeating the boggart-dementor with no choir at all, just brass and strings (not playing a noticeable melody); the rest of the cue covers Harry and Lupin's conversation, with the original rejected Past theme

 

4M14 insert For Patronus Light (mockup video here) = replaces the part where Harry casts the spell with choir, still non-thematic, would segue to the rest of the original, non-WTTP ending

 

The Patronus Power = 2nd idea to replace the part where Harry casts the spell, this time with more powerful choir and horn triplets - just like the original recorded versions of First Frozen Lake and Watching The Past.  Wow!

 

4M14N The Dementor (video here) = Completely revised version of cue, now using WTTP theme backed by choir for the spell, and WTTP theme again during Lupin/Harry convo

 

 

4 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

In the Complete Cue List section of the spreadsheet, I'm not seeing 5:24-9:28 of Time Past / Saving Buckbeak accounted for anywhere.

 

That's just Saving Buckbeak with the ticking clock over it, doesn't the first tab that breaks down the LLL tracks show that?

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

That's just Saving Buckbeak with the ticking clock over it, doesn't the first tab that breaks down the LLL tracks show that?

 

It does, yeah, I guess I was just expecting all the LLL material to be accounted for in the Complete Cue List, so it confused me.

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I don't see how or why the complete cue list tab would list a cue that appears on the album twice

 

No reason to list all the identical Knight Bus pieces twice either

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In this case they're not really identical, because 7:26 - 7:37 of the main program version on the LLL is longer than that same material on the alternate, plus there's the ticking clock on one and not the other, so it seems to me that one of these versions at least belongs in the alternate mixes section.

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Woah I never noticed that longer part!  I guess he edited the cue down for the OST version?

 

Good point about the clock being thought of as like an alternate mix...

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13 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

The timpani was a later insert, right? Do we know that the end of Befriending the Hippogriff would have led into the timpani and not the original opening of the cue?

 

Right, the timpani and percussion intro is an insert.

 

We don't know for sure whether the insert was written before or after 3MC Befriending the Hippogriff, but the last note of 3MC and first note of 3MCA Riding the Hippogriff are both F either way.

 

JW must not have felt too strongly about it needing to lead directly into the next cue, though, because the last few bars of Befriending the Hippogriff (starting with the staccato bassoon and bass clarinet) are marked as an "optional ending".

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@ragoz350 made a video showcasing how to segue from Befriending The Hippogriff directly into Riding The Hippogriff before the percusison intro existed right here:

 

 

Source: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32780-restored-isolated-score-harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-of-azkaban-wo-sfx/

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2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

They work as a concert piece intro, sure, but as part of the overall scene I think this version works better.

 

I disagree. I don't think the original opening properly conveys what is on screen. Harry is clearly super nervous and anxious at the opening. My vote is the Timpani for the film, glad they did it.

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I have an old DVD rip on my hard drive of the Azkaban score, which contains a version of Mischief Managed that runs 3:02. It ends after all the instrumental Double Trouble material, right before the Window to the Past material comes in. And it has a very nice, satisfying clean ending to the Double Trouble instrumental material. It ends similar to The Hippogriff Lesson, but I'm not sure if the ending is actually taken from there, or somewhere else, as it doesn't sound exactly the same to me.

 

I don't know where this DVD rip originated, or how the editor would have put together that clean ending, but I'd love to be able to recreate it. Does anyone know how this was accomplished? Clip attached.

Mischief Managed DVD rip ending.mp3

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12 hours ago, Smeltington said:

I have an old DVD rip on my hard drive of the Azkaban score, which contains a version of Mischief Managed that runs 3:02. It ends after all the instrumental Double Trouble material, right before the Window to the Past material comes in. And it has a very nice, satisfying clean ending to the Double Trouble instrumental material. It ends similar to The Hippogriff Lesson, but I'm not sure if the ending is actually taken from there, or somewhere else, as it doesn't sound exactly the same to me.

 

I don't know where this DVD rip originated, or how the editor would have put together that clean ending, but I'd love to be able to recreate it. Does anyone know how this was accomplished? Clip attached.

Mischief Managed DVD rip ending.mp3 260.78 kB · 11 downloads

 

You're correct. It's the ending to The Hippogriff Lesson. It sounds a little digital almost as if there was too much processing or a lower bitrate. Perhaps it was pulled from the surround channels or something, but yeah. To recreate it you would just tack on the end of Hippogriff Lesson.

 

It sounds a bit different because whoever made it used a longer crossfade than necessary and it makes the tambourine sound off tempo as well as making the mix sound different.

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Ahh, interesting, I guess it sounds more seamless to me than my attempts. I'll have to keep trying. Thanks for figuring that out!

 

I think this is the perfect solution to the end credits, because then I can throw in the full Window to the Past track after it, plus the full Double Trouble song, and maybe a few alternates if they sound good in sequence. Then follow it all up with the Nox coda material.

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It was fascinating to hear it for the first time and to learn that at one point, that was the intention. But no, I like how fresh and new the music in this film feels after all the repetition of material between the first two scores, and I would prefer to cap it all off with new material than to lapse back into verbatim material from an earlier film. I think they were right to remove the Hedwig material from the film and OST... even if what they did instead was still a bit too repetitive. But now I have the power to fix that  :D 

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