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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


Jay

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I think that this theme was first written for the trailer (#2?), and then he tried to find a place for it in the film (and inserted it into the concert suite). In fact, the same can be said about the waltz version of Hediwg's theme (or just separate motive): it also sounds in the trailer #1, however, it remained only at the end of the concert suite, and never appears in the film.

It also reminds me of the case with the Hook trailer: there were two themes presented, one of which is prominently used in the film (is it called a Neverland theme?), and the other sounds only 2-3 times (Pirates' theme?).

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4 minutes ago, ragoz350 said:

I think that this theme was first written for the trailer (#2?), and then he tried to find a place for it in the film (and inserted it into the concert suite). In fact, the same can be said about the waltz version of Hediwg's theme (or just separate motive): it also sounds in the trailer #1, however, it remained only at the end of the concert suite, and never appears in the film.

It also reminds me of the case with the Hook trailer: there were two themes presented, one of which is prominently used in the film (is it called a Neverland theme?), and the other sounds only 2-3 times (Pirates' theme?).

 

Oh that's a good one too! Hook is chock full of themes that could float entire scores. The dark theme that plays over the Pan illustration is another pirate theme example I feel 'if only' pangs for.

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6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I wonder if Williams composed it for that scene first and then saw fit to incorporate it into Hedwig's Theme later on, or if it was the reverse where he thought of it musically first in relation to Hedwig's Theme and then he found a place for it dramatically. Might be the former since I think his concert arrangements usually come later as he's naturally prioritizing the film work but those process questions are interesting. 

 

6 hours ago, ragoz350 said:

I think that this theme was first written for the trailer (#2?), and then he tried to find a place for it in the film (and inserted it into the concert suite). In fact, the same can be said about the waltz version of Hediwg's theme (or just separate motive): it also sounds in the trailer #1, however, it remained only at the end of the concert suite, and never appears in the film.

 

LLL disc 3 tracks "Teaser", "Trailer", and "Hedwig’s Theme for Harp" were all recorded before JW wrote the main film score.

 

Check out Datameister's breakdown of that early material:

 

On 2/7/2021 at 9:50 PM, Datameister said:

All right, buckle up, here we go with the SS trailers...

 

So there were evidently five trailer cues recorded for the film:

 

  • Hedwig's Theme: Heard in complete form from 0:00-1:04 in the LLL track "Teaser." Used (with edits) in the teaser. Not to be confused with the OST track of the same name, which was a longer concert suite that incorporates the same material.
  • Trailer: Heard in complete form as the remainder of the LLL track "Teaser." Used (with edits) in the teaser.
  • Trailer #2: Heard in complete form as the LLL track "Trailer." Used (with edits) in the theatrical trailer.
  • Trailer #2 Intro: Unreleased and unused. To get an idea for what it would sound like, imagine 1:48-2:00 of the Hedwig's Theme concert suite, but with the periodic descending string runs removed and a one-note intro added at the beginning. (You can also get a good feeling for this by listening to the first 13 seconds of "Mr. Longbottom Flies," but imagine that the first note is shorter and missing all the flourishes, and then omit the pizzicato strings at 0:08.) Then add 2:14-2:31 of the concert suite to the end.
  • New Trailer Intro: Unreleased, but used without edits as the first 0:34 of the theatrical trailer (segueing, as intended, into Trailer #2). Corresponds to 3:55-4:10 of LLL "The Prologue / Privet Drive" followed by 0:41-0:56 of LLL "The Journey to Hogwarts," with the ending being slightly different to segue into Trailer #2.

 

(Then, of course, there's LLL "Television Commercial," AKA Hedwig's Tries a Coke, which was written for and used in a TV promo, and which Williams incorporated into the OST track "The Arrival of Baby Harry.")

 

So the missing material @bollemanneke is referring to is the cue New Trailer Intro. But we're also missing Trailer #2 Intro, and we haven't even heard that one in an actual trailer.

 

The only real stretch of music from any of these cues that was never adapted for use in the film and OST is the section of Trailer heard from 1:39-1:52 in LLL "Teaser." Of course, there are noticeable performance differences in numerous other passages, but the writing itself is mostly or completely identical.

 

 

But yea, the concert suites tracks "Hedwig's Theme" and "Harry's Wondrous World", it'd be interesting to know when he fleshed those out in relation to the individual cues!

 

 

 

 

Quote

It also reminds me of the case with the Hook trailer: there were two themes presented, one of which is prominently used in the film (is it called a Neverland theme?), and the other sounds only 2-3 times (Pirates' theme?).

 

There's no "official" name for either of these two themes. 

 

The first one you are talking about only appears in "The Never-feast", "Remembering Childhood", and "The Ultimate War".  It seems to have been used in the final score as like a "Peter embracing that he is the Pan" kind of theme, since the "Never-feast" moment is after he cuts the coconut on instinct, the "Remembering Childhood" uses are when he finally remembers who he is and flies around, and "The Ultimate War" is him fully being Pan, fighting with the Lost Boys against Hook's pirates.  I've seen it referred to as "Peter Pan's Theme"


The second one you are talking about appears in "Hook-Napped", "Hook Challenges Peter", and "The Death of Rufio"*.  I've seen it referred to as the "Conflict theme", because all those scenes deal with the conflict between Peter and Hook.  "Hook-napped" when Hook abducts his kids, "Hook Challenges Peter" when Peter is challenged to rescue his kids, and "The Death of Rufio" when Peter realizes he has to fight Hook or his kids will never be safe.  Wait, all these scenes involve his kids!  Maybe we should call it..... "Hook threatens Peter's kids theme" :p

 

Check out this theme list with timestamps:

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/167-hook/&do=findComment&comment=1743093

 

 

*by that I mean the LLL track by that name, it's actually the start of the cue "The Sword Fight" 

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Oh, thanks, I mean, the teaser as trailer #1. As for Hook, you are right, I wanted to say that Rembering Childhood has a very large and bright statement-development of this theme.

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Shoot, you're right, I conflated "frequently" with "prominently"! 

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I've always thought of that little motif that starts the trailer as Pan the Avenger and the brighter theme as the main Pan theme. I agree with Jay: what I call the Pan the Avenger motif seems to score their upcoming inevitable confrontation and it coming closer and closer. I like thinking that the score opens with a musical prophecy of them coming together again.

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  • 3 months later...

I'm currently listening to The Chamber of Secrets. Namely the breathtaking cue "Quidditch Second Year". I know its probably old hat to ask this but what is the consensus now on William Ross' input? To me all of the music sounds completely 100% Williams. Was Williams just being his usual non assuming self in granting Ross a higher status than mere orchestrator? Or did Ross actually COMPOSE? 

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33 minutes ago, stravinsky said:

I'm currently listening to The Chamber of Secrets. Namely the breathtaking cue "Quidditch Second Year". I know its probably old hat to ask this but what is the consensus now on William Ross' input? To me all of the music sounds completely 100% Williams. Was Williams just being his usual non assuming self in granting Ross a higher status than mere orchestrator? Or did Ross actually COMPOSE? 

Ignore Shark. Ross himself says the latter in the LLL booklet - and you're right, it is pretty much all Williams, just  scissored and glued together from HP1's Quidditch Match, Phantom Menace's The Race Begins and Attack of the Clones' Chase Through Coruscant, with minor connecting tissue and the latter considerably beefed up to full orchestra. Same for every other cue using old material. Some people say one thing, some another, I think we don't definitively know for every single cue whether JW did this all himself, whether he noted which segments of which cues to assemble in what way and how to change them to Ross who then did it, whether he gave rough notes on what to use and let Ross figure it out (unlikely since Pope says he barely even leaves anything to orchestrators) or whether he just worked on his cues and let Ross "compose" or assemble others fully on his own (very unlikely).

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All the music you hear in the HPCOS score was composed by John Williams, but that doesn't mean that it was all composed newly by him specifically for HP2; Ross clearly adapted 3 categories of JW compositions to conform everything to the final cut (or the cut as it existed on recording day I supposed): new music JW composed directly for HP2, music JW composed for HP1, and a small amount of music JW composed for other scores, like the Star Wars material that clearly made it into the Quidditch music.  


If JW was not committed to scoring Catch Me If You Can for Spielberg and could have fully dedicated himself to the project, we likely would have gotten a completely different Quidditch cue.  There still could have been some passages throughout the movie straight out of HP1, even with full JW commitment, possibly, we'll never know, but I think he would have made time to write new stuff for all scenes that could not be covered by HP1 music.

 

So for the Quidditch music, it's unlikely that JW chose those specific passages from his SW scores and decided that was the best way to score the Quidditch match, it is far more likely it was Ross who made that all work.  But you're still hearing music composed by JW and adapted by Ross, you're not hearing music composed by Ross.

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I really like the AotC segment in the Quidditch cue, it's just a shame that there's generally so much borrowing and reuse in this score. Much of the original material is really good, but Spielberg doing CMIYC at the same time took a fully original JW score away from us.

 

Almost feels like a Mummy situation (where he agrees to write a certain amount of original music) but with Columbus working with Ross to get the additional music, instead of demanding Williams do it anyway.

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Thankyou for your info gents. As ever. We'll it's news to me that music from AOTC was utilised in this score. I must admit I don't know the score but I had no clue when listening to the Quidditch track that Star Wars music was spliced in. Fascinating. 

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To be clear, they didn't "splice in" the AOTC recording, they simply clearly adapted what JW had composed for AOTC for a section of the cue

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

To be clear, they didn't "splice in" the AOTC recording, they simply clearly adapted what JW had composed for AOTC for a section of the cue

 

I've been wondering recently what the legal implications of this incident might have been, or might be now, with the re-recording of existing music between properties. Even though Williams is the composer of both of these scores, LucasFilm and Warner Bros are very separate entities with a close grasp on their intellectual property and I can't see them letting most composers do this kind of thing (if they were even aware of it at all). I don't know any of the specifics around copyright when it comes to film music, does Williams retain copyright over any of the written compositions he makes for films, or is it all owned by the studios along with the masters? It's a fascinating point of curiosity for me.

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3 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

when it comes to film music, does Williams retain copyright over any of the written compositions he makes for films

 

No

 

3 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

, or is it all owned by the studios along with the masters?

 

Yea

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4 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

I've been wondering recently what the legal implications of this incident might have been, or might be now, with the re-recording of existing music between properties. Even though Williams is the composer of both of these scores, LucasFilm and Warner Bros are very separate entities with a close grasp on their intellectual property and I can't see them letting most composers do this kind of thing (if they were even aware of it at all). I don't know any of the specifics around copyright when it comes to film music, does Williams retain copyright over any of the written compositions he makes for films, or is it all owned by the studios along with the masters? It's a fascinating point of curiosity for me.

 

I mean, I guess the copyright holders should care, but they clearly never notice as this kind of thing happens all the time in film scores. Compare "To the Plaza, Presto" from Home Alone 2 with "Fighting the Troll" from the first Harry Potter. Or the main titles from Poledouris' Conan the Barbarian and Goldsmith's Total Recall. Or consider James Horner's use of his "danger motif" in basically all of his scores from the 80s to the 2010s. Hans Zimmer does this shit all the time too. He reused a riff he wrote for Drop Zone in Gladiator and then a couple years later he made it the main theme for Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

Also, why are score composers basically allowed to rip off classical works with impunity? Holst's Mars gets quoted in everything from Star Wars to Gladiator to Chicken Run to TV's Chuck. And don't get us started about Dies Irae. It's in everything too.

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1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

Also, why are score composers basically allowed to rip off classical works with impunity? Holst's Mars gets quoted in everything from Star Wars to Gladiator to Chicken Run to TV's Chuck. And don't get us started about Dies Irae. It's in everything too.

Public domain, baby!

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I think were are losing some perspective here.
I think williams did all aotc music in hp is intentionally williams, working in a rush. The aotc in quiddich and malfoys motif is no worse than the similar music between aotc, cmiyc and minority report, and definately not as blatant as Gilderoy lockarts theme (which no one considers a ross adaptation).

 

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5 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

I mean, I guess the copyright holders should care, but they clearly never notice as this kind of thing happens all the time in film scores. Compare "To the Plaza, Presto" from Home Alone 2 with "Fighting the Troll" from the first Harry Potter. Or the main titles from Poledouris' Conan the Barbarian and Goldsmith's Total Recall. Or consider James Horner's use of his "danger motif" in basically all of his scores from the 80s to the 2010s. Hans Zimmer does this shit all the time too. He reused a riff he wrote for Drop Zone in Gladiator and then a couple years later he made it the main theme for Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

Also, why are score composers basically allowed to rip off classical works with impunity? Holst's Mars gets quoted in everything from Star Wars to Gladiator to Chicken Run to TV's Chuck. And don't get us started about Dies Irae. It's in everything too.

It's funny to think the whole Dies Irae thing emerged very probably with Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms although he first started the whole chant/patter thing in Les Noces which was completed roughly a decade before the Symphony. Another influence on Stravinsky could very possibly be the astounding Concerto Spirituale by Arthur Lourie written and performed about 18 months before the Symphony of Psalms was premiered. 

       The Nazi's beloved composer Carl Orff was the first guy to famously rip off this choral chant technique in Carmina Burana which proved to be the only worthwhile thing he ever wrote. Britten also utilised the technique in the War Requiem before Stravinsky himself used it again to great effect in his Requiem Canticles from 1966. 

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3 minutes ago, stravinsky said:

It's funny to think the whole Dies Irae thing emerged very probably with Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms

 

The widespread practice of quoting the Dies Irae motif started way before Stravinsky. Listen to Berlioz' Symphonie Phantastique, for example.

 

5 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Also, why are score composers basically allowed to rip off classical works with impunity? Holst's Mars gets quoted in everything from Star Wars to Gladiator to Chicken Run to TV's Chuck. And don't get us started about Dies Irae. It's in everything too.

 

Holst's music is still under copyright and HanZ got sued for similarities to The Planets in the Gladiator score.

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7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Holst's music is still under copyright and HanZ got sued for similarities to The Planets in the Gladiator score.

Was when that happened. Some googling says it isn't anymore.

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5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I think were are losing some perspective here.
I think williams did all aotc music in hp is intentionally williams, working in a rush. The aotc in quiddich and malfoys motif is no worse than the similar music between aotc, cmiyc and minority report, and definately not as blatant as Gilderoy lockarts theme (which no one considers a ross adaptation).

 

 

AotC in Quidditch is miles ahead of those other examples - it's just plonked from one cue to the other, with a few orchestration adjustments.

 

Here's a question (which I suspect I already know the answer to): if things were in such a time crunch that Williams couldn't do original material for a handful of sequences, was it best for Ross to do what he did, or to compose some original music himself to fill in the gaps?

 

It sounds like most other A-listers use additional composers nearly all the time, so why not Williams on this occasion? It would've meant a more original score in the end.

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I've often quoted this excellent interview from 2002 when the topic comes up;

 

Quote

Are there any moments in the score that you can identity as being predominantly John’s work, versus those that you can identify as being primarily yours?
William Ross: I’m not sure how to answer that question. I think some people get confused because they see the “Music Adapted by” credit. That was something that John insisted on from our first meeting. The reality however is that CHAMBER OF SECRETS is a John Williams score beginning to end.

 

I also love this quote;

 

Quote

How much music is in the film?
It may surprise you to know I’m not sure! In addition to the new material he wrote specifically for the film, he took several themes and expanded them into more developed pieces for the album. I was stunned by the amount of music he wrote. We were on the 12th day of a 13-day recording schedule and I received a package with new cues to record. That night I actually called John and told him I was sending the music police to confiscate his pencil. I think he just couldn’t stop writing.

 

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My intent isn't to pile on Williams. But as others have pointed out, the lifting of the AotC music is pretty egregious even for him, and questionable in my opinion. I get he was under time pressure, but it's a fair criticism to make and much as we love the guy he's not above scrutiny. This isn't like the oft-used Ludlow motif, or the Home Alone chase music in Troll in the Dungeon, where there's clear temp imitation going on. It's wholesale lifting with a few bells and whistles attached.

 

As far as lifting from classical canon goes, that's a moot point in my opinion. Once things enter public domain there's a definite sense that ownership has transferred to the public consciousness, to be used at anyone's whim.

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Exactly - that's why I think Ross writing original material himself might have yielded some more interesting results.

 

Remember it happened too with the temple scene in KotCS, directly lifted from WotW. Both may just have been director requests for all we know, but either way, he still nicked material from himself.

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Every time Ross’ involvement in CoS is brought up, people show up to conflate people being disappointed that Williams reused material from other films with people being disappointed that Ross wrote music for the film. Everyone knows and understands Ross did not write new music and only adapted older music. That’s not what’s at issue. Some people, even in this thread, seem to be deeply in denial about that fact.
 

Like, no, Williams lifting entire chunks from AOTC and nearly note for note rehashing them in CoS is not the same as him writing similar music for Minority Report and CMIYC or whatever false equivalency people wanna make up is. CoS has plenty of excellent material, but it’s a half finished score. 

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I had no idea until very recently that there was any denial about how some sections were copy/pasted.

 

If Williams didn't have time to write those new sections of score, it only leaves two options - lift them from another score, or have someone else write them - there's no reasonable third option. My personal preference would have been for Ross to compose a few sections (did the build-up to the first AotC quote in Quidditch, from 3:10-3:20 come from somewhere pre-existing? or did Ross have to write that to connect it together?)

 

Neither of these scenarios is ideal for a hard-core Williams fan, so I guess some just try to downplay the bits that were lifted. I'm very disappointed that clearly Williams was more invested in CMIYC and hence CoS is a partially completed score, but it is what it is.

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10 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Remember it happened too with the temple scene in KotCS, directly lifted from WotW. Both may just have been director requests for all we know, but either way, he still nicked material from himself.

 

Though it does go against the copypaste-principle, I can't hold this instance against him - while it starts as a direct lift, he continues the cue in a different way and leads into this glorious brass finish :) (and as both scores involve aliens, a case could be made for topical appropriateness)

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I had no idea until very recently that there was any denial about how some sections were copy/pasted.

 

If Williams didn't have time to write those new sections of score, it only leaves two options - lift them from another score, or have someone else write them - there's no reasonable third option. My personal preference would have been for Ross to compose a few sections (did the build-up to the first AotC quote in Quidditch, from 3:10-3:20 come from somewhere pre-existing? or did Ross have to write that to connect it together?)

 

Neither of these scenarios is ideal for a hard-core Williams fan, so I guess some just try to downplay the bits that were lifted. I'm very disappointed that clearly Williams was more invested in CMIYC and hence CoS is a partially completed score, but it is what it is.

 

What bothers me is that, from what I know, it was possible for Williams to do both scores properly - just adapting the schedule a little.

 

Chamber of Secrets was recorded in September 2002.

Wasn't it possible for Williams to write CMIYC from late September to November? The film was released in December 2002, and it's not a film that required a lot of music, and certainly nothing very heavily orchestrated. 

 

 

Three years later, Williams would record Geisha in August 2005 and still had time to write Munich before the December 2005 release!

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41 minutes ago, oierem said:

 

What bothers me is that, from what I know, it was possible for Williams to do both scores properly - just adapting the schedule a little.

 

Chamber of Secrets was recorded in September 2002.

Wasn't it possible for Williams to write CMIYC from late September to November? The film was released in December 2002, and it's not a film that required a lot of music, and certainly nothing very heavily orchestrated. 

 

 

Three years later, Williams would record Geisha in August 2005 and still had time to write Munich before the December 2005 release!

When was CMIYC recorded, though? Maybe the orchestra was booked for the rest of the year and JW had no choice but to write it earlier.

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For my taste, the AOTC quote in Harry Potter is even better, than the repetition of the same part in AOTC itself in that droid factory scene, where on top suddenly Yoda's theme is dropping in for no recognizable reason. I mean, the scene is awful anyway, but still there I would have wished for a dedicated composition and not just a repitition of the coruscant chase plus Yoda.

But I think, they added the scene very late in the process. Probably there was no time left to write new music for it. 

Spoiler

 

 

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Honestly I always thought the AOTC quotes were more interesting in HP2 anyway. I think the variation he does in the Quidditch material especially fits well into the Harry Potter sound, making it sound a bit more exaggerated and spectacular. Also, I wouldn't even call HP2 a half finished score. I think Williams would have done a lot of what he already did no matter what.

 

I would call it 3 quarters finished score, just because some of the temp tracks are a bit excessive. But I'm fairly convinced he would have already turned things like the 3-note motif into a foreshadowing Voldemort theme anyway considering it's in the Voldemort suite from Philosopher's Stone. Plus its extensive use in "The Face of Voldemort" implies more it being a theme representing Harry & Voldemort's connection than a theme for the stone alone.

 

Honestly I listen to The Chamber of Secrets score far more than the other 2 Williams ones just because I love how much it develops the themes from the first movie and builds on that sound. Unlike Prisoner, while yes, is a more polished score, not only resets everything, but forgets its own thematic material halfway through as well, *cough* doubletrouble!

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5 minutes ago, superultramegaa said:

Honestly I always thought the AOTC quotes were more interesting in HP2 anyway. I think the variation he does in the Quidditch material especially fits well into the Harry Potter sound, making it sound a bit more exaggerated and spectacular. Also, I wouldn't even call HP2 a half finished score. I think Williams would have done a lot of what he already did no matter what.

 

I would call it 3 quarters finished score, just because some of the temp tracks are a bit excessive. But I'm fairly convinced he would have already turned things like the 3-note motif into a foreshadowing Voldemort theme anyway considering it's in the Voldemort suite from Philosopher's Stone.

Then I would consider it a lazy effort, and a "partly unispired" score (I'm strictly referring to the parts that aren't original). 

Williams is known for writing very original and interesting sequel scores (as well as some clearly unoriginal ones, I know). It's hard to say what would've happen if he had had enough time to write Chambers properly.

 

But I can't truly say the Chambers score, as a whole, is a great one because it's heavily dependent of the previous score, and the new themes are not developed enough (the Chamber of Secrets theme being the most clear example). 

 

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

For my taste, the AOTC quote in Harry Potter is even better, than the repetition of the same part in AOTC itself in that droid factory scene, where on top suddenly Yoda's theme is dropping in for no recognizable reason. I mean, the scene is awful anyway, but still there I would have wished for a dedicated composition and not just a repitition of the coruscant chase plus Yoda.

 

 

 

The droid factory tracks previous music. It's not something Williams (or anyone else) wrote. 

You are wrong about the scene being added very late, though. Williams did compose music for the scene. It just wasn't used for whatever reason (the lenght of the scene changing, or, most probably, Lucas wanting a different more thematic/dramatic approach to the scene - the original cue is very wacky and almost comical).

 

1 hour ago, Holko said:

When was CMIYC recorded, though? Maybe the orchestra was booked for the rest of the year and JW had no choice but to write it earlier.

 

I don't know that, but it was recorded in LA, so it's not a standing orchestra like the LSO, right?

 

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2 hours ago, oierem said:

But I can't truly say the Chambers score, as a whole, is a great one because it's heavily dependent of the previous score, and the new themes are not developed enough (the Chamber of Secrets theme being the most clear example). 

 

I disagree on not being much new material, or good development for the themes. I think all of them have very fitting developments. The spiders gets a lot of repeats but develops once the bigger spiders are descending so that makes sense. The new theme for the car gets a lot of time to shine, Fawkes' development makes sense as he's not featured much, but we get spectacular soaring action versions when he contributes to the main plot, as well as a semi-dissonant version when he attacks the basilisk, and the theme resolves beautifully when he carries everyone out of the chamber. 

 

I'm still a bit split on Dobby and The Chamber theme. On the one hand, I like the subtle way the chamber theme is used, and I think it still has very satisfying payoff when they realize Ginny is kidnapped, though it would have been nice to hear an action version in the chamber, but even then I do love the new material we get for the Basilisk fight. Similarly with Dobby, I think the more subtle development fits his character as he's not featured much, though they should have kept his introduction music, and I think it would have made sense to have an action version when the bludger is chasing Harry in the Quidditch match. 

 

Overall I agree the score is more flawed than the other 2, but I think people tend to exaggerate how much recycled material is there. While yes there are new recordings of music taken from Philosopher's Stone, there are plenty of tracks that are almost completely original, or have new versions of old themes that develop very well (the friendship theme's development in Chamber is nothing short of lovely).

 

Honestly, all I really look for in sequel scores is that it has the same general style as the first one, there's plenty of new material, and the old material is developed in new and interesting ways, which Chamber still does for the most part. Yes it could have been better, but I'd still call it a great score, just not as great as the other 2 even though I enjoy it more. Any sequel scores that neglect almost if not all previous themes are practically worthless to me, unless I didn't care for the original film's music. The only exception is Prisoner, which even then, I enjoy significantly less than the first 2. 

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54 minutes ago, Jay said:

I still want to make my own 75 minute OST album one day that focuses on all the new material and only repeats HP1 material at the beginning and end

I did that once, and it was a great listening experience. Unfortunately I lost it when my hard drive crashed. I tried to recreate it later, but I somehow couldn't make the assembly as good as on the first try. It was made based on the sessions leak, though, not the great new set.

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In hindsight I’m glad he put some of the reused music on the OST, mainly the material that wasn’t on the first album like “Gryffindor Wins” in “Reunion of Friends”. But “Cornish Pixies” is a waste of space, as is the fairly humdrum Forest underscore in the Aragog cue. 
 

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7 hours ago, Jay said:

I still want to make my own 75 minute OST album one day that focuses on all the new material and only repeats HP1 material at the beginning and end

I once did just that and shared the assembly here but it's not in the CoS Originality Analysis thread so I don't know where it could be. As per that thread btw, the score is 32% copypasted old material, 21% old themes in new variations, 52% all new material. While the OST is 31-9-58, grossly misrepresenting it.

 

Edit: found it!

 

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For me, there are three main takeways from the OST: The Flying CarThe Spiders (when put in film order) and Dueling the Basilisk. Plus of course the three new concert pieces.

 

Much of the rest is either very heavily inspired by other cues, or lifted directly, and it's those that lend the album a rather unsatisfying feel.

 

The complete set does highlight the large amount of original music Williams wrote, and there's lots of great stuff in there, but it doesn't go far enough for me to make up for the amount of borrowing, and one or two copy/paste sections, all of which make it feel like a 70% complete score.

 

I do agree with a prior comment though, that the AotC Quidditch lift works really well in the Potter world (as I've said before, it means I don't have to listen to AotC to hear that bit). It just takes a certain faction of more dedicated JW fans to admit to themselves that he stole it from himself :P 

 

One thing to observe about that cue though, listening fresh after some time, is how cobbled together the first half sounds, but then we get to around 3:00 and suddenly it becomes an absolute badass action cue, with structure and rhythm. It's such a pity that the first 3 mins couldn't have come from similar inspiration and time.

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