Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[Disco Stu 15,509]

It'd be fun to create a parody alt account on the forum with the persona of only posting well-known Williams anecdotes/factoids as if they're obscure.  I'd use the Michael Caine catch-phrase "Not many people know that" and maybe with Caine as the avatar to encourage people to read the posts in his voice.

 

"Fun fact: The ending parade music in The Phantom Menace is actually the Emperor's theme in disguise.  Not many people know that."

[Molly Weasley 103]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

It'd be fun to create a parody alt account on the forum with the persona of only posting well-known Williams anecdotes/factoids as if they're obscure.  I'd use the Michael Caine catch-phrase "Not many people know that" and maybe with Caine as the avatar to encourage people to read the posts in his voice.

 

"Fun fact: The ending parade music in The Phantom Menace is actually the Emperor's theme in disguise.  Not many people know that."

 

Not many people know that when Spielberg showed JW Schindler's List, ... 

[Disco Stu 15,509]

8 minutes ago, Molly Weasley said:

 

Not many people know that when Spielberg showed JW Schindler's List, ... 

 

Too obvious even for parody! 

[bollemanneke 4,010]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I'd venture to suggest that's what happens almost all the time. One can compose themes for specific characters or sentiments but if something just works... whatever  

 

I mean, there's no possible way that Hedwig's Theme is a theme for Hedwig. It's just JW's main theme and he thought that sounded a cool name on the album.

Yeah, except in the Hobbit.

[greenturnedblue 375]

Did you know John Williams composed the score for an obscure space franchise called star wars? You may not have heard of it...

[Datameister 2,441]

4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

It'd be fun to create a parody alt account on the forum with the persona of only posting well-known Williams anecdotes/factoids as if they're obscure.  I'd use the Michael Caine catch-phrase "Not many people know that" and maybe with Caine as the avatar to encourage people to read the posts in his voice.

 

"Fun fact: The ending parade music in The Phantom Menace is actually the Emperor's theme in disguise.  Not many people know that."

 

Meh, we already have posters that do that. (I flip-flop on whether it's hilarious or just a really good way to deter anyone new from joining the community.)

 

In all fairness, I was directly responding to an incorrect statement that was offered in good faith, as far as I can tell.

[HunterTech 1,506]

Has there been a prior personal confirmation from someone about the current pressings being fixed? I got a copy of a rip someone made after purchasing from presumably the new stock, and it definitely is fully lossless.

[j39m 78]

I assume you're talking about this thing with the musicless "sound of air?" Jay says that "later pressings" are fixed.

 

Your post gave me a scare, I thought I'd bought a box of MP3 CDs or something ("I bought some cereal from the store, and this box is definitely cyanide-free").

[HunterTech 1,506]

There's a difference between saying it, and someone actually proving it

 

"Fully lossless" isn't meant to imply the previous set was purely MP3 quality. Given the explanation that has been provided, I suppose it's reasonable to think it isn't quite the same thing, but if it's considered a flawed source that ultimately was used, then I would still call it partially lossy (if only 5%).

[ragoz350 498]

I recently noticed a little thing in the POA sheets.
In The Whomping Willow cue there is a page labeled as "Insert Bars". It has a special number "10A" between pages 10 and 11, although the bar numbering is normal. There are also 5 bars on this page instead of the usual 4. 
Somehow that's what it would sound like without these bars:

And with them: 

(Look at 0:08)

In any case, the scene was later greatly shortened, so it's unclear why these bars was needed. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,576]

Those bars are actually a really nice addition, maybe it was enough to write them

[Docteur Qui 1,580]

On 08/01/2023 at 8:42 AM, ragoz350 said:

In any case, the scene was later greatly shortened, so it's unclear why these bars was needed. 

 

Wasn't there a story going around that during the recording sessions it turned out that Williams had not been given the latest edit of the film and subsequently had to rush to revise a whole bunch of cues? If that's true it's possible that he wrote the inserts for the newer cut of the film, then the final edit (after the sessions) truncated the Whomping Willow sequence in different areas.

[crlbrg 382]

[Skelly 273]

On 08/01/2023 at 5:02 PM, Docteur Qui said:

Wasn't there a story going around that during the recording sessions it turned out that Williams had not been given the latest edit of the film and subsequently had to rush to revise a whole bunch of cues?

This story came from the film's re-recording mixer, Richard Beggs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20160805013817/http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=30499

Quote

 

Tonight I attended a master class by Academy Award winning sound designer Richard Beggs. Here are some interesting points I took away:

• On one of the movies he worked on, Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban, the sound design deliberately did not 'hit' anything 'run of the mill magical' (to suggest that that was normal in the world of Harry Potter).
• In that same movie (Harry Potter), John Williams was given an old version of the movie (as in: not the final cut). They found out at the recording stage in London where the score was to be recorded live using the London Symphony Orchestra, much to the distress of John Williams (and probably everyone). They had to rewrite and reorchestra parts of the score (the musicians in the meanwhile doing crossword puzzles).
• John Williams typically delivers 6 tracks of music, to be mixed down with the dialogue and effects. On the same Harry Potter movie, the director didn't like certain harp glissandos. Since they didn't have individual tracks, it was quite a burdon to recut the music to eliminate. In the wake of that experience, John Williams apparently has considered delivering individual stem tracks instead of just six mastered tracks.

On the last point he mentions something about harp glissandos.  I don't know what he's talking about.  A long time ago I took a good look at the written score and I didn't notice any big harp things which were cut out of the movie.  Perhaps the poster misheard harpsichord as harp, since I remember there were some harpsichord parts in the written score that are either missing or mixed very low in the final score.

Beggs also did "Sleepers" and JW did him a big favor by respecting the sound effects.  In 2020 Beggs said: "I did a Barry Levinson picture, Sleepers, where I put a tonal sound in a temp mix--a dramatic sound--that had no basis in reality. It worked well. I got a call from John Williams's music editor. John wanted the original sound so he could listen to it and score against it. But not everyone will do that."

[bollemanneke 4,010]

Could point 2 explain the number of supposedly unrecorded alternates?

[Richard P 4,763]

If someone fucks up and gives Williams the wrong cut, I'm not sure what the response should be, given the exact circumstances, but having Williams and his team rewriting frantically while the players do crosswords? Seems like a bad way to solve it.

[ragoz350 498]

The rewrites can only be guessed about, but apparently many cues were recorded "as is," even if they were for the old cut.
Perhaps urgent changes were made only to a few cues, for example, in which it was decided to insert the WttP theme (Woods Walk, Summoning the Patronus, Sirius and Harry): the final versions of these cues are shorter than previous ones, and these revisions may well have been made in a hurry... 

[mrbellamy 7,287]

17 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

If someone fucks up and gives Williams the wrong cut, I'm not sure what the response should be, given the exact circumstances, but having Williams and his team rewriting frantically while the players do crosswords? Seems like a bad way to solve it.

 

Were the players supposed to compose? 

[bollemanneke 4,010]

3 hours ago, ragoz350 said:

The rewrites can only be guessed about, but apparently many cues were recorded "as is," even if they were for the old cut.
Perhaps urgent changes were made only to a few cues, for example, in which it was decided to insert the WttP theme (Woods Walk, Summoning the Patronus, Sirius and Harry): the final versions of these cues are shorter than previous ones, and these revisions may well have been made in a hurry... 

Very interesting theory. Especially because some of the cues (woods walk, Harry & Sirius) arguably became more interesting in their revised form. I think especially Woods Walk sounds meandering and totally aimless in its original forms.

[Richard P 4,763]

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Were the players supposed to compose? 

 

Of course!

 

But I do think they should've delayed the sessions and given Williams the time to do it properly. Studio pays - they've messed up.

[Holko 11,383]

No! He should have recorded them as is (so we get more JW music) and told them to edit it however they want!

[Meredith McKay 7,859]

53 minutes ago, Holko said:

No! He should have recorded them as is (so we get more JW music) and told them to edit it however they want!

We wouldn't get more though, you would just end up swapping.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,655]

7 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Were the players supposed to compose? 

 

Well sure! They each write their own individual parts, and then perform them together! It would sound a little something like this...

 

 

[mrbellamy 7,287]

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Of course!

 

But I do think they should've delayed the sessions and given Williams the time to do it properly. Studio pays - they've messed up.

 

Idk how these things work either but I guess this proposal would be assuming Williams had that time in his schedule to work on it and come back by the release date, and not sure how close they were to that. And securing the players and studio space for future sessions that would still hit their deadline....it could have been more than WB being cheap. It might have meant others writing additional music and conducting the sessions, maybe resorting to a different ensemble and studio altogether. 

 

It sounds like a shitty situation but they are professionals after all. Whatever they did, they were able to do it efficiently and it worked. 

[SpotTheDog 47]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

[...]it could have been more than WB being cheap.

 

It's never more than WB being cheap.  

[Docteur Qui 1,580]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Idk how these things work either but I guess this proposal would be assuming Williams had that time in his schedule to work on it and come back by the release date, and not sure how close they were to that. And securing the players and studio space for future sessions that would still hit their deadline....it could have been more than WB being cheap. It might have meant others writing additional music and conducting the sessions, maybe resorting to a different ensemble and studio altogether. 

 

Agreed. Recording sessions are an incredibly complex undertaking. The amount of money needed to secure further sessions with Williams, the players, engineers, studio etc would've been astronomical - all assuming that this could work with the film's very tight deadline and that there was even an option to do so in the first place. Many of the involved parties were likely under various contracts at the time. It's not a studio being cheap; it's a necessary response to a situation that shouldn't have happened but nonetheless did. Thankfully Williams and his team are absolute professionals (which is one of the many reasons he is so well-respected in the industry); working with agility is/was in his nature.

 

Who knows, if it weren't for this bungling we may never have had the Window to the Past theme at all - its unclear exactly when in the process Williams wrote the theme, but the initial versions of many cues it appears in had a completely different - and, IMO, less effective - theme known around here as "Remembering Mother".

[Meredith McKay 7,859]

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Well sure! They each write their own individual parts, and then perform them together! It would sound a little something like this...

 

Do I hear some raiders march near the end?

[GerateWohl 5,937]

7 hours ago, Clockwork Angel said:

Do I hear some raiders march near the end?

Sure. And everything else as well.

[ragoz350 498]

For fun, I "restored" the percussion in one bit of the Werewolf Scene from POA. It's in the sheet score, but apparently wasn't recorded (probably the sync would have been too difficult). 

[Trope 1,188]

Do we know if "Dobby the House Elf" from Chamber of Secrets ever meant to appear in the end credits of the film? Or was it an arrangement intended to be heard only on the OST album?

[Jay 42,392]

I'd say all the arrangements were written/recorded with the dual purpose of being an album track and an end credits option. 

[GerateWohl 5,937]

The four piece suite with Fawkes the Phoeni, The Chamber of Secrets, Gilderoy Lockhart and Dobby the House Elf is one of the best things from Williams' Harry Potter work. And it proves those wrong who say there wasn't much new music in the second movie. 

 

By the way, this might not be the right thread for this question. But could one say, that the way Williams worked with Ross on The Chamber of Secrets was similar how he worked with Courage on Superman IV? 

Both are credited as "Music by John Williams, Adapted and Conducted by Ross/Courage".

I just understood that even though there might have been a similar agreement in case of Harry Potter Williams contributed more music and more new material. But the basic setting was more or less the same?

Does anyone have more details?

And were there more collaborations with Williams like this? (I would not mention Solo here, as this is basically a Powell score, where Williams just contributed on theme, like in Kenobi.)

 

Is there already a thread about a comparison of these two collaborations?

 

By the way, maybe that's a good ideafor a new thread: "Kinds of collaboration with John Williams"

And then there is something like "Williams writes and conducts concerto/arrangement for a particular soloist"

Williams provides for a sequel to his existing themes new themes, arrangements and ideas to an adapting composer"

Williams just provides a new theme to a composer as main theme to a movie/TV Show.

Williams provides for existing musical new arrangements and the adapted score for the movie adaptation. 

Williams composes all the music including songs that get texted by some lyricist. 

etc. etc.

[Holko 11,383]

20 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

But could one say, that the way Williams worked with Ross on The Chamber of Secrets was similar how he worked with Courage on Superman IV? 

Not really, IIRC on IV he only contributed sketches for themes and that's it, but on Chamber he properly wrote much or most of the score himself as usual. More like Solo, yes, but even there he finished and recorded the concert piece himself and wrote and recorded a couple cues as demos for Powell.

[GerateWohl 5,937]

5 minutes ago, Holko said:

Not really, IIRC on IV he only contributed sketches for themes and that's it, but on Chamber he properly wrote much or most of the score himself as usual. More like Solo, yes, but even there he finished and recorded the concert piece himself and wrote and recorded a couple cues as demos for Powell.

Hm. In the liner notes of Quest for Peace it says "Williams composed straightforward album arrangements of his new themes based on descriptions of the characters. He also received video tapes of certain key scenes and offered ideas to Courage by telephone."

That reminded me of what I read about Chamber of Secrets.

But the level of contribution might have been much higher with CoS. 

[Datameister 2,441]

 

Good luck. Opinions vary. To me, it's pretty clear that JW wrote most or all of the genuinely new material.

[Trope 1,188]

Pretty random question, but why is track 18 on Azkaban Disc 2 called "Window to the Past", and not "A Window to the Past" like on the OST? 

 

I've been revisiting this box set and have concluded that it is the best expansion I've ever purchased. If I had to get rid of every expansion I've ever bought and only keep one, this would be it. This music is so damn good, all 8 hours of it. 

[A. A. Ron 2,261]

I believe that’s just a typo.

[bollemanneke 4,010]

A typo that made me think it was an entirely new track composed of alternates. Good times.

[Nemesis 280]

8 hours ago, Trope said:

Pretty random question, but why is track 18 on Azkaban Disc 2 called "Window to the Past", and not "A Window to the Past" like on the OST? 

 

I've been revisiting this box set and have concluded that it is the best expansion I've ever purchased. If I had to get rid of every expansion I've ever bought and only keep one, this would be it. This music is so damn good, all 8 hours of it. 

That would be a very hard decision but I think I would hold on to my expanded 3cd set of Hook.

[Trope 1,188]

13 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

That would be a very hard decision but I think I would hold on to my expanded 3cd set of Hook.

That one is in close second place! Followed by A.I. 

[bollemanneke 4,010]

3 hours ago, Nemesis said:

That would be a very hard decision but I think I would hold on to my expanded 3cd set of Hook.

It's not an easy decision for me either, but HP wins every single time. Too much nostalgia and good memories about the release of this box.

[BB-8 4,984]

30 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

It's not an easy decision for me either, but HP wins every single time. Too much nostalgia and good memories about the release of this box.

The movie Hook didn't play a significant role in my youth at the time it hit the screen. I was still obsessed by Star Wars, E.T. and Indy and wasn't really interested in - and aware of - what JW had otherwise composed.

 

Then came the 90s and I got nostalgic about almost every new JW score.

 

By the time HP had been released, JW had become a central part of my life and my second phase of nostalgia began.

 

I feel mostly nostalgic about Hook because of the recent concert apearances of FTN. But I feel more closely connected to the (first 3) HP films with their specific athmosphere and music.

[Jay 42,392]

12 hours ago, Trope said:

Pretty random question, but why is track 18 on Azkaban Disc 2 called "Window to the Past", and not "A Window to the Past" like on the OST?

 

Ha!  Good question.  I have a vague memory of realizing this too late to change it back.  It was just a minor oversight and nothing intentional.

 

12 hours ago, Trope said:

I've been revisiting this box set and have concluded that it is the best expansion I've ever purchased. If I had to get rid of every expansion I've ever bought and only keep one, this would be it. This music is so damn good, all 8 hours of it. 

 

Aw, thats wonderful to read!

 

[Holko 11,383]

I don't even want to imagine getting rid of expansions and stuff, but when I glance across my shelf, I'm pretty sure this is the one I feel the most happy and fuzzy about having.

[Edmilson 10,482]

12 hours ago, Trope said:

I've been revisiting this box set and have concluded that it is the best expansion I've ever purchased. If I had to get rid of every expansion I've ever bought and only keep one, this would be it. This music is so damn good, all 8 hours of it. 

In approximately 82 years you will be able to reconsider this once you have the Complete John Williams Star Wars collection, including music for all 24 Episodes (music from Episodes 13-24 composed by JW's consciousness being implanted in an artificial robotic body).

[bollemanneke 4,010]

I don't have that problem, happily. Indy and SW will be nice to be able to listen to once, but other than that, meh. Nothing will ever, ever beat November 2018 in the film music world.

[BB-8 4,984]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

I don't have that problem, happily. Indy and SW will be nice to be able to listen to once, but other than that, meh. Nothing will ever, ever beat November 2018 in the film music world.

Yeah, with my delivery arriving 24th December!

[bollemanneke 4,010]

That's so awesome! I got mine on the 19th I think and then had to wait a week before being allowed to open it.

[Nemesis 280]

5 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Yeah, with my delivery arriving 24th December!

Got mine on 24th December too!

[BB-8 4,984]

It added to the overall Christmassy notion of the early scores. Somehow, I prefer listening to HP in autumn and winter. Some kind of fairy-tale celestial imprinting I believe, like with Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker...