Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[Luke Skywalker 2,187]

All this HP boxset love... how will you feel when they RELEASE them separately with better sources and missing material?

[Once 903]

That would require for Warner Bros. to start doing soundtrack album licenses again, though.

[Trope 1,188]

I know I would still buy new expanded editions of these scores, but this collection has a special place in my heart: the artwork, the presentation, its place in history (I hope I’m not exaggerating), my own personal experience back when I bought it, and the countless times I’ve had the privilege of listening to it.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,100]

9 hours ago, BB-8 said:

The movie Hook didn't play a significant role in my youth at the time it hit the screen

 

I saw it in the theater opening weekend and it's an early memory of the music appealing to me. I still remember the sword fight and wanting to hear the music again. When I got the CD, it wasn't even on it. Tough luck huh.

 

 

This set any good? I have it but I don't even own a CD player to test it out. This is the kind of discipline Hook and other curated OSTs instilled in me.

[A. A. Ron 2,261]

It's ridiculous that it's been six years and none of the sequels have been expanded.

[That_Bloke 166]

13 hours ago, Brock Lovett said:

 

I saw it in the theater opening weekend and it's an early memory of the music appealing to me. I still remember the sword fight and wanting to hear the music again. When I got the CD, it wasn't even on it. Tough luck huh.

 

 

This set any good? I have it but I don't even own a CD player to test it out. This is the kind of discipline Hook and other curated OSTs instilled in me.

 

I am in awe and admiration of your Indiana Jones figurines (the Star Wars ones look cool too, but I have some of those) 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

His Buffy ones are superior.

[Yavar Moradi 3,587]

On 12/08/2024 at 9:50 PM, A. A. Ron said:

It's ridiculous that it's been six years and none of the sequels have been expanded.

 

Makes perfect sense when you realize that Warner Bros. hasn't been authorizing any new expansions since 2020 (the only exception being Varese because they have perpetuity album rights on a lot of things). Let's just be glad the three Williams scores got expanded before WB stopped playing ball.

 

Yavar

[bollemanneke 4,010]

Goblet needs to be expanded, and soon. Why those idiots can't just say yes will always baffle me. Very simple word. Yes.

[Yavar Moradi 3,587]

34 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Goblet needs to be expanded, and soon. Why those idiots can't just say yes will always baffle me. Very simple word. Yes.

 

Presumably, their legal departments which would being doing rights research and licensing clearances for film music have lost a lot of longtime employees over the past half decade, become understaffed, and have prioritized their limited time on projects that promise more of a financial return than licensing a few thousand copies of an expanded soundtrack album.

 

We don't have to like it, but I think that's the reality and it doesn't make them "idiots" just because they aren't sticking their necks out to cater to our desires. They're no doubt just looking at the bottom line -- welcome to capitalism.

 

Yavar

[bollemanneke 4,010]

25 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Presumably, their legal departments which would being doing rights research and licensing clearances for film music have lost a lot of longtime employees over the past half decade, become understaffed, and have prioritized their limited time on projects that promise more of a financial return than licensing a few thousand copies of an expanded soundtrack album.

 

We don't have to like it, but I think that's the reality and it doesn't make them "idiots" just because they aren't sticking their necks out to cater to our desires. They're no doubt just looking at the bottom line -- welcome to capitalism.

 

Yavar

Sure, but are you saying no one at LLL would want to help with it? Why do they have to actively make it impossible for these things to happen? At least do something about that ridiculous situation in which they own stuff they don't care about. Give it away to people who do, then.

[JohnnyD 1,531]

If there was one (of several things) the Harry Potter films lacked after Prisoner of Azkaban, it was musical impact and continuity. I'll admit, Patrick Doyle came somewhat close to having impactful music, but aside from Hedwig's Theme (and he had to put his own spin on it, apparently), it just did not have the same drive that Maestro John Williams had with the first three films. Maybe Nicolas Hooper had something with Dumbledore's Farewell from Half-Blood Prince, but I swear, every time I see Goblet of Fire through Deathly Hallows, I always feel like there is something...missing. God forbid there should have been some effort for musical continuity with themes ASIDE from Hedwig's Theme.

[Datameister 2,441]

5 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

If there was one (of several things) the Harry Potter films lacked after Prisoner of Azkaban, it was musical impact and consistency. I'll admit, Patrick Doyle came somewhat close to having impactful music, but aside from Hedwig's Theme (and he had to put his own spin on it, apparently), it just did not have the same drive that Maestro John Williams had with the first three films. Maybe Nicolas Hooper had something with Dumbledore's Farewell from Half-Blood Prince, but I swear, every time I see Goblet of Fire through Deathly Hallows, I always feel like there is something...missing. God forbid there should have been some effort for musical consistency with themes ASIDE from Hedwig's Theme.

 

Meh, I think POA killed any hope for thematic consistency in the scores. Other than a few "special guest appearances" by Hedwig's theme, it almost completely does its own thing. 

 

I view these scores like the scores to the Star Trek films, particularly the ones with the OT cast. Most of them are written as standalone scores of varying quality, each with its own themes and its own sound. (Then you've got a few that break the rule by maintaining continuity with a predecessor.)

 

The downside is that you have to get re-acclimated with each film, and it's harder to envision the whole thing as a single musical work. The upside is that you get to hear a wider variety of approaches.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

Too many JWfanboys demand excessive consistency and for franchise scores to be homogenised as part of a unified whole because they want everything to be like SW, Indy or LOTR. But HP is so metal, it's like fuck all those nerd rules, and goes "Hey Hogwarts! Ya wanna hear some realllll music?!!"

[bollemanneke 4,010]

12 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

If there was one (of several things) the Harry Potter films lacked after Prisoner of Azkaban, it was musical impact and consistency. I'll admit, Patrick Doyle came somewhat close to having impactful music, but aside from Hedwig's Theme (and he had to put his own spin on it, apparently), it just did not have the same drive that Maestro John Williams had with the first three films. Maybe Nicolas Hooper had something with Dumbledore's Farewell from Half-Blood Prince, but I swear, every time I see Goblet of Fire through Deathly Hallows, I always feel like there is something...missing. God forbid there should have been some effort for musical consistency with themes ASIDE from Hedwig's Theme.

These films and their scores are just such part of my childhood that I'm mostly unable to evaluate them critically the way I would if I discovered them now. I'll never be able to objectively approach HP4 because that score made me listen to film music and completely changed my life, which is why it HAS to be on my shelf in proper form at some point.

 

But you are absolutely right that the scores (from 3 onwards, though) are plagued by senseless thematic decisions. I was very surprised to find that I prefer 1 to 3 now. Take away its great source music and its pretty disjointed.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

The OST is the proper form. It's how Doyle wanted it. What else is there?

[bollemanneke 4,010]

1 hour ago, Unlucky Bastard said:

The OST is the proper form. It's how Doyle wanted it. What else is there?

Only the other half of the score.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

The album highlights are more than enough for me.

[Jay 42,392]

18 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Why those idiots can't just say yes will always baffle me. Very simple word. Yes.

 

 

On 02/01/2023 at 2:36 PM, Jay said:

In recent years, Warner Bros. has pivoted away from doing soundtrack album licenses at all, for a bunch of reasons that have to do with corporate ownership and directives, which I’m not really qualified to analyze—and even if I was, I’d probably keep my mouth shut.

Warner Bros. is a magnificent studio with a ton of film and TV music that they could monetize—and at the moment they don’t want to invest the resources into the legal clearances and research to do it. 

 

from https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/the-dumbest-thing-i-hated-producing-cds-warner-bros-art-licenses

 

I don’t want to chronicle how we got from there to here, but at the moment, the studio is so hollowed out, there’s just no way they can research titles for music licensing. So that’s why so many of those great old unreleased scores aren’t coming out on CD. And, in fact, why even the CDs that were already released, not only by FSM but other labels, aren’t being distributed digitally.

 

from https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/warner-bros-layoffs

[bollemanneke 4,010]

I'm curious about the disparity between the 'great company' and 'I don't want to elaborate' part of that explanation. It seems he's afraid to upset the great company, which, if it was so great, would understand where he's coming from.

[Smeltington 1,753]

Of course Lukas doesn't want to be unprofessional and air more details of the situation and potentially damage his relationship with WB.

 

And if WB is low on resources, it makes sense that they can't handle the red tape involved with expanded score releases.

 

We can't really be mad at WB for not doing more than they're financially able to, especially since they've participated in expansions in the past, when they did have the resources. All we can really do is be mad at the situation, and hope it changes.

[Richard P 4,763]

9 hours ago, Datameister said:

Meh, I think POA killed any hope for thematic consistency in the scores. Other than a few "special guest appearances" by Hedwig's theme, it almost completely does its own thing. 

 

Yes, people criticize the later scores for trashing thematic continuity, but Williams did it himself with PoA.

 

The first score has something that PoA doesn't - consistency and a flow to its style. PoA feels like it jumps between a slightly modernized fantasy Williams sound and the old English, almost medieval sound, and the two don't gel that well together. However, I'd far rather Williams tried it and slightly succeeded, than just wrote 2 more hours of standard Hollywood Potter music. Certainly, Cuaron tried a heck of a lot more than Columbus did to make his film different, interesting and unique, and challenging Williams to write something different.

 

I rarely listen to the full score - I have it for posterity of course, but if I'm honest with myself, the main attraction is the ability to craft an album that does a far better job of including the best material than Williams did.

[Smeltington 1,753]

HP1 is the ideal JW score in so many ways. Yes, it's consistent, and yet it has variety. And it has an extremely satisfying array of themes, and usage and development of those themes. If you had to pick his best score in terms of structure, this would be a major contender.

 

I've done some more listening to the complete POA lately, and while I love all the material that's there, I agree that it doesn't have consistency and flow, or much structure to speak of. I don't see as much disparity between Williams' style and the medieval influences, since those often cross over into his scoring, with the harpsichord, recorder, etc appearing throughout. But the flow of the score is still pretty disjointed. The score opens with a series of tracks that, from a musical perspective, seem unrelated to each other or to any sense of narrative (other than opening with Hedwig's theme). Then there's the whole segment of the score that's dominated by Double Trouble, and that portion has a clear beginning and end, making it basically self-contained. And then you get more of a typical, structured JW score afterward, but it mainly covers the time travel portion of the film, so it has more of the sense of an extended finale.

 

With that said, you get amazing, inspired material the whole way through. And you do have the Window to the Past theme tying it all together, as well as the medieval soundscape. I always thought of Double Trouble as more of a main theme to the film, but hearing the C&C score you realize it's more like an extended setpiece, and Window to the Past is unequivocally the main theme. And its development is actually satisfying... you get a hint of it early on with the portrait, then lots of opportunities to get used to it in its typical "longing" setting, you get the transition between it and Hedwig's theme, and it all culminates in the great finale at the end.

 

And the score has always been fantastic in the film, with the structural issues only being somewhat noticeable, the source music fitting in just fine, etc. The writing, sound world, and "kitchen sink" approach still feel fresh and exciting.

 

29 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

the main attraction is the ability to craft an album that does a far better job of including the best material than Williams did.

 

Yeah, all the ingredients are there to make a classic album, and rectify the C&C problems. No idea how I'd go about it though, there's a lot of material and I wouldn't want to leave much (if any) out, plus it's hard to figure out how to incorporate all the source music. Maybe JWFan can host a "best Azkaban edit" competition.

[Richard P 4,763]

My criteria for a better album would actually be fairly simple, although definitely contentious. I've never found the Buckbeak/time travel sequences that interesting - I think they work a heck of a lot better in the film than on album. Same largely goes for some of the dementor and chase material.

 

I think a great album would focus on the various treatments of the WttP theme, the more dramatic material Williams omitted (Discussing Black, sealing the castle, the Shrieking Shack, Harry using the map at night) along with the blatant highlights, plus source.

 

And not including a suite that duplicates ten fucking minutes of music you just listened to... I mean seriously, this forum goes mental disowning edited credit suites, yet that's precisely what most of Mischief Managed is.

[bollemanneke 4,010]

I did an alt OST as an experiment, disregarding any chronology. I just selected everything I wanted to be on it and then made medleys depending on what sounded right, musically speaking, ignoring everything else. I'm still amazed how it all came together and can honestly say that, had that been the OST, I would have been 100% happy in 2004.

[Smeltington 1,753]

No Buckbeak??? Beyond contentious for me!

 

54 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Discussing Black, sealing the castle, the Shrieking Shack, Harry using the map at night

 

Solid choices, Shrieking Shack is the only one I'm undecided on, somehow the cue on its own isn't nearly as interesting as the scene in the film.

 

47 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I'm still amazed how it all came together and can honestly say that, had that been the OST, I would have been 100% happy in 2004.

 

Nice, you found a way! I'm picturing Double Trouble medley #1, Double Trouble medley #2...

[Richard P 4,763]

46 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

No Buckbeak??? Beyond contentious for me!

 

Buckbeak's Flight is included (obviously); it's the later sequences that I find a bit on the duller side. I think JW's ideas for the entirety of the time travel and related elements of the story don't really do it for me.

[Smeltington 1,753]

Ohhhh. Well then I disagree less forcefully haha.

[Holko 11,383]

3 hours ago, Smeltington said:

And if WB is low on resources, it makes sense that they can't handle the red tape involved with expanded score releases.

Nobody's forcing them to overcomplicate the release of material they're literally just sitting on, have no plans with, and is generating zero income for them.

 

 

Proposal: a giant nonprofit Art Heritage Fund which takes away every material from the studios that they don't release/don't take care of/don't release properly, transfers, restores and archives them, and makes them available on their own film/score streaming service for a nominal fee, also offering non-DRM proper downloads, and physical releases where deemed important/popular enough.

[Meredith McKay 7,859]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

Nobody's forcing them to overcomplicate the release of material they're literally just sitting on, have no plans with, and is generating zero income for them.

 

 

Proposal: a giant nonprofit Art Heritage Fund which takes away every material from the studios that they don't release/don't take care of/don't release properly, transfers, restores and archives them, and makes them available on their own film/score streaming service for a nominal fee, also offering non-DRM proper downloads, and physical releases where deemed important/popular enough.

Introducing: The film score police!

[bollemanneke 4,010]

1 hour ago, Smeltington said:

No Buckbeak??? Beyond contentious for me!

 

 

Solid choices, Shrieking Shack is the only one I'm undecided on, somehow the cue on its own isn't nearly as interesting as the scene in the film.

 

 

Nice, you found a way! I'm picturing Double Trouble medley #1, Double Trouble medley #2...

You'd be surprised. It's 79 minutes and last time I checked, the program was very varied. I was amazed how much of the score you could fit on one CD and what a missed opportunity the original program was.

[oierem 200]

3 hours ago, Smeltington said:

 

With that said, you get amazing, inspired material the whole way through. And you do have the Window to the Past theme tying it all together, as well as the medieval soundscape. I always thought of Double Trouble as more of a main theme to the film, but hearing the C&C score you realize it's more like an extended setpiece, and Window to the Past is unequivocally the main theme. And its development is actually satisfying... you get a hint of it early on with the portrait, then lots of opportunities to get used to it in its typical "longing" setting, you get the transition between it and Hedwig's theme, and it all culminates in the great finale at the end.

 

 

The OST gives the impression that Double Trouble is one of the main themes, but it really isn't. 

Window to the Past, which is clearly the only main theme, is perfectly developed indeed. The first subdued hint, then the A phrase (always on a different instrument: flute, clarinet, oboe, horn, strings...), and you have to wait to its final appearance to hear the B phrase of the theme, leading into a wonderful ending. 

[bored 564]

9 hours ago, Unlucky Bastard said:

Too many JWfanboys demand excessive consistency and for franchise scores to be homogenised as part of a unified whole because they want everything to be like SW, Indy or LOTR.

 

It's not unreasonable considering the first two scores were heading that direction. I know there were some slight issues with themes in the second film, but almost all of the important themes do get new variants in the film. Even "Wand of the Phoenix" gets two interesting new versions. The sudden shift to little continuity in number 3 is not just jarring, it's nonsensical. 

 

In a trilogy sense, it's like Return of the Jedi only including Luke's theme and the Rebel's theme. At least the later films you can understand because of potential rights issues with Williams' music.

[Richard P 4,763]

I just had a session going through the three scores, and I rediscovered quite a contrast between the first and the other two. The first one is near perfection, with just one tiny bit that I decided to edit out of my playlist - the very start of Through The Doors is a little dull up until just before the doors open.

 

Chamber... oh dear. Upon paying some fresh attention to this score it's painfully obvious the staggering amount of material that was recycled in one way or another. Wiliams' OST is actually very well assembled in my view, in terms of including certain sequences and joining cues. I cut the LLL set down to 1:35, with most of the binned material being adapted stuff. Man, what this score could've been had Williams actually scored it with his full attention.

 

I've really tightened PoA down to a single CD, removing some of the bits I mentioned earlier. The difference here is that the bits I binned are just stylistically not my thing.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,100]

The second one is derivative and repetitive similar to Home Alone 2 and it's one of the only examples of a William R--err, I mean JW, score where he just copies his own stuff from other scores in a Hornerian way.

[Edmilson 10,482]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I cut the LLL set down to 1:35

Just one minute and 35 seconds of score? That would make the shortest OST album ever 

 

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Man, what this score could've been had Williams actually scored it with his full attention.

Indeed. Thank you very much, Steven.  

 

One day I'll fulfill my dream of listening to CoS and separate its cues into HP1 material or Chamber of Secrets concert suites that William Ross adapted into film cues and actual cues that JW probably actually wrote for the picture.

[enderdrag64 1,431]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Chamber... oh dear. Upon paying some fresh attention to this score it's painfully obvious the staggering amount of material that was recycled in one way or another. Wiliams' OST is actually very well assembled in my view, in terms of including certain sequences and joining cues. I cut the LLL set down to 1:35, with most of the binned material being adapted stuff. Man, what this score could've been had Williams actually scored it with his full attention.

I might be interested in making my own edit one day that does something similar, just the new material with rerecordings left out.

 

It still would be a bit derivative though, because of the AOTC stuff and the stuff that's mildly different but similar to stuff from the first score which I'd probably keep

[Meredith McKay 7,859]

17 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

I might be interested in making my own edit one day that does something similar, just the new material with rerecordings left out.

 

It still would be a bit derivative though, because of the AOTC stuff and the stuff that's mildly different but similar to stuff from the first score which I'd probably keep

And the stuff similar to other scores...

[bored 564]

I'm just going to say it... I think the Lucius Malfoy and AOTC chase adaptation in Quidditch is better than the AOTC versions. I'm sorry. I think there's more done with the Lucius version rather than repeating the same melody and orchestration 20 times like in the Dooku version, and there's more flair with the Quidditch version of the AOTC chase.

[Skelly 273]

On 15/08/2024 at 2:45 PM, bollemanneke said:

You'd be surprised. It's 79 minutes and last time I checked, the program was very varied. I was amazed how much of the score you could fit on one CD and what a missed opportunity the original program was.

Can you share details about what types of edits you made?  I've always thought the ost was pretty good.

[bollemanneke 4,010]

6 minutes ago, Skelly said:

Can you share details about what types of edits you made?  I've always thought the ost was pretty good.

I'll PM a spreadsheet.

[Edmilson 10,482]

43 minutes ago, bored said:

I'm just going to say it... I think the Lucius Malfoy and AOTC chase adaptation in Quidditch is better than the AOTC versions. I'm sorry. I think there's more done with the Lucius version rather than repeating the same melody and orchestration 20 times like in the Dooku version, and there's more flair with the Quidditch version of the AOTC chase.

[Jay 42,392]

I mean does anybody feel the opposite way?

I've seen plenty of people say how much more they like the Quidditch version over the Chase Through Coruscant version of that bit in both, but I've never seen anyone post that they prefer the AOTC version of that

[Trope 1,188]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I mean does anybody feel the opposite way?

I've seen plenty of people say how much more they like the Quidditch version over the Chase Through Coruscant version of that bit in both, but I've never seen anyone post that they prefer the AOTC version of that

I think I honestly prefer the AOTC version. The percussion and interludes between the orchestral tutti frenzy add a lot. While I do agree that orchestration of the main frenzy motif is more intense in HP, the bridging material isn't as interesting to my ears (partly due to the fact that The Chase Through Coruscant is a sustained 10 minute action setpiece, so JW can return to certain rhythms and vary them, making it a more unified and interesting musical sequence overall).

[Director of Poltergeist 8,100]

There's no fucken contest. Of course the Chase Through Coruscant is better. It's even got electric guitar, fuzz tone. Of course, I prefer Lost in Space original main title to both, the real origin of all this shit.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

Feels like Mugglenet forums are back again.

[Datameister 2,441]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

I mean does anybody feel the opposite way?

I've seen plenty of people say how much more they like the Quidditch version over the Chase Through Coruscant version of that bit in both, but I've never seen anyone post that they prefer the AOTC version of that

 

Those COS passages still feel like really excellent knockoffs to me. I'm truly grateful to be able to enjoy them, but I also can't help hearing them as derivative.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,858]

Harry Horner

[Schilkeman 1,457]

Chase Through Coruscant is my favorite track from my favorite Star Wars score, so yes, I prefer it.

[Once 903]

16 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I'll PM a spreadsheet.

I'd love to see the spreadsheet too!