Jump to content

SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE - 3CD Set from La-La Land Records


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Well, pre-announces actually:     COMING SOON LIMITED EDITION (3-CD SET)

Hey I just received My Superman set!   Wait... why the cover art is different?  

21 hours ago, ciarlese said:

Thanks for the links to the videos. I don't have time to watch them now, although I read the English subtitles and I found some interesting bits which I think are most relevant to this conversation:

 

1:Audio and video are different indeed, although the principles behind video and audio digitization are the same. And that is the reason why the first link starts talking about audio sampling then talks about video sampling:

 


219
00:16:02,571 --> 00:16:08,798
One could think of video as being like audio but with two additional spatial dimensions, X and Y, 

220
00:16:08,798 --> 00:16:12,787
in addition to the dimension of time. This is mathematically sound.  

221
00:16:12,787 --> 00:16:19,097
The Sampling Theorem applies to all three video dimensions just as it does the single time dimension of audio.

 

So it looks like I am not comparing apples and oranges after all. This comes from the video you posted.

 

About your previous comment, here what your video says:

 

161
00:11:18,545 --> 00:11:25,100
Super-hi-fidelity sampling rates of 88, and 96, and 192kHz have also appeared. 

162
00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:30,888
The reason for the sampling rates beyond 48kHz isn't to extend the audible high frequencies further.

 

 

That bit covers your original comment:

 

 

Now if you want to say that there is no audible difference by sampling with a higher frequency than the current CD standard I can't say that I disagree.

But I think it is pretty much the same as going from 4k to 8k in terms of visible difference (unless you are VERY close to the screen), even after the videos you posted (which seem to me to prove you wrong).

 

 

 Well, yes... but...

Quote

222
00:16:19,097 --> 00:16:25,815
Audio and video are obviously quite different in practice. For one, compared to audio, video is huge.

229
00:16:51,252 --> 00:16:55,425
Basic raw video is also just more complex than basic raw audio.

230
00:16:55,425 --> 00:16:58,599
The sheer volume of data currently necessitates a representation 

231
00:16:58,599 --> 00:17:02,106 
more efficient than the linear PCM used for audio.

243
00:17:54,664 --> 00:18:00,022
In short, there are a whole lot more details involved in digital video than there were with audio.

 

Anyway, we can go on forever with this, like the old "analog vs. digital" debate. The point is that the extra money they charge us for those high resolution releases is definitely not worth the "benefits" we get (because there aren't any, for listening purposes). For one, the music is not even mastered to the dynamic range that 24bit has to offer. Hell, it's not even mastered to the full dynamic range of 16bit audio. The second video goes into much more detail about this and other matters. I particularly found it fascinating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are 2, 3 and 4 worth getting if you have no interest in other composers adapting Williams themes? I want to order Superman but the prohibitively expensive international shipping has forced me to order far less often and instead wait until there's multiple titles I want.

 

Only problem is not knowing when LLL's next Williams release might be (could be November for all I know). 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

59 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Are 2, 3 and 4 worth getting if you have no interest in other composers adapting Williams themes?

 

Get the II\III set for the exclusive source music from STP.

 

Get IV for the new JW themes that aren’t available any where else.

 

On top of that, you’ll be getting a sh*tload of good Superman material that you’ll grow to love.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Superman IV already came from first gen 2" 24-track masters in 2008 (La La Land reissued the same discs last year)

 

6 and 4 track mixdowns by John Richards were used for Superman II and III (La La Land used the same masters for the II/III boxset)

 

I don't think that Ken Thorne's adaptations for Superman II and III have enough market for a re-release. Thorne was basically hired to use and adapt John Williams' material from the first movie.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the samples on LLL's websites, there are now two other sources to hear music from the new set:

 

1) This great interview of Mike Matessino conducted by Maurizio Caschetto:https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/legacyofjw_mikem_podcast_part_one-1.mp3

 

2) The latest episode of the Caped Wonder podcast: https://capedwonder.com/CapedWonder_podcasts/CW_SUPERMAN_PODCAST_EP8_FEB_19_2019.mp3

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some notes from Mike in a new FSM thread about the elements use

 

Quote
Quote

Starting this thread in the hope that segregating technical queries on this release will result in not having to wade through fanboy angst whilst looking for solid information from knowledgable technical personnel.

So, to start things off: Mike Matessino, were the multitrack transfers on this release done with the Plangent process? Will the Plangent process, at present, accommodate 2" 24-track tape?

 

Warner Bros. is not a Plangent Process client and Sound Transfer has not purchased Plangent head stacks yet. Nor do I think in early 2018 when these transfers were done was the 24-track head in circulation yet. 

 

In any case, contractually Warner Sound must do our transfers according to their own practices and these tapes played beautifully, with resolved rock solid sync. I was present for some of it and I have no complaints about the quality of the transfers or the elements, especially given their age. They were stored in the UK for 30 years before moving to underground storage in Kansas, but held up very nicely.

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134413&forumID=1,1&archive=0

Link to post
Share on other sites

MV posted this over at FSM. 

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=8&threadID=134366&archive=0

 

 

Quote

As stated this Friday. We will start shipping on that date. Thus far we have about 1500 orders on the website alone (a new record for a recent title in less than 1 week). We will process and ship them out as quickly as we can. We will be working this weekend to make sure orders get out in a timely manner. We appreciate your patience.

Thanks

MV

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'd been a little on the fence about getting this, since I own not only the original CD but the Rhino expansion AND the Blue Box.  But the podcast tipped me over the edge, and then I figured hey what the fuck, why not get the II/III and IV sets as well.  So take your $100, La-La Land!  You've earned it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Could anyone tell me what MM meant when he said that the first generation tapes already contained the performance edits and why he doesn't like that? Does he mean people already 'messed' with the recordings from day one? In that case, how are they still first generation material?

 

I guess they did the edits by cutting and splicing the first gen tapes, just as with CE3K.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess they did the edits by cutting and splicing the first gen tapes, just as with CE3K.

That's exactly right.  The preferred takes were combined by physically cutting and splicing the first generation tapes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't something that would go on to be iconic from Superman accidentally end up in the rubbish bin during one of the editing sessions? Sure I remember a podcast talking about having to salvage a cue that was covered in coffee and Williams' cigar ash! I've a feeling it was either the Main Title or Leaving Home.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try and find the podcast when I get home later. It was posted on here and people (including me) got choked up over a story about a piece from Superman being played at the funeral of someone involved. I feel bad about not remembering the name of the person because it was a lovely story. I think that was also Leaving Home.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ATXHusker said:

More fantastic insight from MM on the alternate Fortress of Solitude track.  I must admit it will take a lot of will-power to not listen to part 2 of @Amer 's podcast but I'll try to resist until after my set arrives!

 

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134417&forumID=1&archive=0

 

You mean TownerFan?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The process used for this score - cutting the performance edits using the actual 1st gen tapes - is pretty unique overall in the realm of all film scores ever.


But it was actually quite common for a period of John William's output.  Star Wars, CE3K, and Superman were all done this way.  I'm not 100% sure about Empire, Raiders, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, and Jedi but I think they were too?.  The Fury, Jaws 2, 1941, Dracula and ET were not.

 

Anyway, if you've never had issues with how Star Wars or CE3K sounded before, you won't have any issues with Superman either.  Basically, if you listen really closely, you can probably hear the edit points.  But I believe Mike cleaned up all of the most obvious ones for CE3K and Superman too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

MIDI version?

 

Also, what would the tapes sound like if they cut and pasted performance edits? Would it result in seamless sound or did MM have to redo all the transitions?

 

I imagine he's had to do a lot of work smoothing out the analogue edits. Same thing was true of Close Encounters though and it sounds flawless :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I studied electronic composition in the analog (tape) days. Razor blade editing with high speed tape machines can result in very precise, undetectable edits (or at least in the context of home audio of the time, unobtrusive edits). But it's destructive editing - by ear! No waveform on a monitor, no undo/redo. If you don't have the time/money - and just think about the budget/pressure/professional standards involved with a major studio motion picture - you have to slice it right the first time, i.e. the only time. I can imagine using a spot backup, never mind have to resort to the backup master, was a cost prohibitive exercise. That said, I can't imagine trying to seamlessly edit a multitrack tape that contained 70-80 (what was the #?) closely-mic'd orchestral players in a live room. I'm familiar with all the places they failed to do so from years of listening to the LPs of SW, CE3K, ESB, Raiders, etc.

I'm totally going to follow MM's advice and listen to the alternate Fortress before anything else (incl. pt. 2 of the podcast)... he just had to mention the Binary Sunset alternate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

More details on the set from Mike over at the FSM forum...

 

Quote
Quote

Sigh... well I guess Mike's post is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. I was on the fence about getting this new release or not as I already own the Blue Box and am satisfied with it. I did not see the point of upgrading (and spend money again) but the promise of a better sound quality plus an amazing unreleased track for such a milestone JW soundtrack, that sums it up for me. I will definitely get this new release! Technical question though: how come the track listing does not mention "previously unreleased" for that "The Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment)" track? (I did not see if that was previously answered before)


Applying the asterisks happens on a case-by-case basis. On the Potter set there would have been so many asterisks it would have looked ridiculous. We decided to not do it on An American Tail either.

This is technically the first fully Williams approved expansion of Superman, so it's almost like this is being done for the first time... here is the full score, here are the alternates, here is the original album, all from the original recording masters. So what has and hasn't been released before is not really relevant. Internally the licensing entities have all the information about who owns what.

I also understand expressions of hesitance about getting it. Part of that, I think, is because we don't really "wear out" our CDs, or even the cases they come in. The older releases look, feel, sound and work the same as when we first got them. That's not true with cars, phones, carpeting and furniture, for example, so we think about replacing them when the time comes and then enjoy the feeling of having something more "up to date." 

I went through three copies of Superman on LP in ten years before it became available on CD and then bought US and Japanese editions of that, and didn't think anything about doing so... and that was for all the same master. But now we have three things... 1) economic practicality, 2) a music business that we know no longer requires physical product, 3) a title for which twice now people were told the best material was used... all coming together to tell us that our passions are reckless. It's a challenging problem and in the end up to each individual. And as I said before, there's no shame either way. If I were on the other side of this dilemma, I would just skip a meal out (or two if I was overseas) and get it.

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=4&forumID=1&threadID=134366&archive=0

 

Oh to be a fly on the wall (or car window) for these moments! LOL  Same link as above, further down the thread...

 

Quote
Quote

I am curious, Mr. Matessino: what's the story of who you first told about your discovery of the proverbial holy grail of "Superman" music? (Or is that covered in part 2 of the podcast?)

I should clarify: the podcast I am referencing is at The Legacy of John Williams web site. I have not yet listened to the Caped Wonder podcast on the new release.


I don't think the podcast goes into all of the details and I assume you mean this "Fortress" track. Neil and I reviewed the photos of the boxes sent to us from UVS in Kansas and spotted what we believed to be the cue. We called in that tape, had it put up, and then stood there listening in a surreal indescribable fugue state. That roll was quickly transferred that night but later it was redone along with the next one in the series, which actually had the best take on it. But from the initial run made that first night I was able to make a quick and dirty mix and edit of the cue that we kept to ourselves. I played it for Jamie Richardson and the guys at La-La Land and then subsequently for Jim Bowers and Jay Towers in my car when they came in to town for a visit. Much later in the year I finalized the track (I played it for Tim Burden in London in October), but apart from the refs made for John Williams, which he listened to during his convalescence, it was kept to Neil and myself, and anyone who knew about kept quiet.

Mike

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:49 PM, SyncMan said:

I still have hope that a L2P Superman-The Movie concert will happen.  Warner Bros or any concert production company can’t be that stupid to pass this up.

 

I should lay the blame on only one concert production company, if this doesn't happen--Film Concerts Live.  One of the owners of that company is The Gorfaine/Schwartz Agency, the management agency that represents John Williams.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, ATXHusker said:

 

In accord with Mike, I'll give clear instructions on how to skip the small alternate Fortress of Solitude excerpt during Part 2 of the podcast (which will be online next Monday, btw). I want to respect his wishes in giving fans the chance to experience the track for the first time unedited and uninterrupted when they will get their sets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather not hear it at all before hearing the set, personally. I went out of my way to avoid the Firebolt alternate from Azkaban but sadly I kept hearing excerpts in various podcasts. It would've been amazing to hear that for the first time in the set itself (and I imagine the alternate Fortress would be much the same).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.