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My Episode 3 Theory


SilverTrumpet

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I actually think ep3 will be the best of the prequels. This is why:

Notice the best part of AOTC, the Tatooine scenes. This is something Lucas is familiar with from the original movies. Maybe Lucas' thing is that he does best with stuff he knows from the original trilogy. If this is true, the best will be Ep3 because it will have so many similar things connecting the two trilogies. This might actually make it good. What do you think the possibilities of that are?

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I really can't speculate on a movie that is 2 years away. Do I want it to be good? Yes. What many people seem to forget is that I was actually looking forward to AOTC last year. I don't totally hate TPM. It has it's weaknessess, but it's actually a mild step up from ROTJ. AOTC I found to be a totally worthless movie, and I went into it with an open mind. I would not have waited 14 hours outside with my friends if I truly thought the film was going to be awful. And as King Mark likes to point out occasionally, yes I even liked the score last year. Hearing it now though just highlights the problems that I have with the movie. It's dull and uninvolving.

Neil - hoping that Episode III will at least be watchable

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Edag, you're probably right, and that sucks.

Why should Lucas have to rely on familiarity for Episode III to be good? Is he that desperate and talentless at this point in his career? Does he not have much of an imagination anymore, so he has to use stuff we know from the OT in the PT for people to like them? I'm beginning to think yes.

Personally, I would prefer the PT to naturally segue into the OT without having old references pounded into our heads. The less to do with the OT, the better. Anyone know what I mean?

I hope Episode III is excellent. I HOPE. I want it to be so badly. I think it definitely has the potential to be the best SW ever. That probably won't happen, but it's damn well possible. I love the prequels, but they don't hold a candle to the original flicks. I know this, so I'm not expecting the best. I'm not really expecting the worst, either. I'm just......hoping. Hoping to be blown away, but ready not to be.

It better not be the latter.

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After the shell-shock from the special effects wore off, I was suddenly disgusted by the lack of nonexistent emotional involvement. I mean, the scene where Shmi dies has some of the worst acting ever. Maybe Hayden's tears were CG...

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The acting was better than the lines the actors were forced to deliver. Not surprisingly, only experienced actors like Christopher Lee and, in general, Ian McDiarmid were able to rise above the crap that George Lucas and Jonathan Hales passed off as a script.

(yes, you can thank me for the new, revolutionary rant I have presented above)

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Slytherin:

Sure the acting was bad, but when I watched the movie, it was the the score that moved me the most. I think JW's underscore for this scene is some of the best stuff from the film...unreleased which is a shame...

I think everyone needs to just wait and see what happens with EP3, I just hope that they wont remix music from the first two into that one....what a mess that was...

MattC

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I know!!! That was the most cliche, unbelievable thing she could have done, and she did it! I actually thought Hayden did relatively well in the death scene. But that's just me, and I hate most of the acting in the rest of the movie. One of my favorite stupid moments is the following dialogue:

Anakin: "Well, at least we have Artoo."

Padme: "AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!'

My whole group of friends burst into snickers at that part when we first saw the movie in the theatre. It boggles my mind that there is no one on the set during filming who has the intelligence to realize or guts to approach Lucas about the sheer stupidity of that and so many other parts of the film. But I do agree with Alan and Merkel about Ian McDiarmid - he is a joy to watch, at least in comparison to the rest of the cast. He's one of the few aspects I'm expecting to be exceptional about Episode III.

Ray Barnsbury

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I would not have waited 14 hours outside with my friends if I truly thought the film was going to be awful.

If I had waited 14 hours in line I would probably have not liked the movie either

K.M.

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Actors like Lee and McDiarmid need little or no guidance on how to act.

And that's what you need these days when you are working with computer generated images and have Lucas for a director who merely gives basic instructions.

Hayden also did a pretty good job, I think. He showed some emotion and striked me as a normal young man who has to face difficult times and choices. The only thing against him is the script dialogue.

Temuera Morrison as Jango Fett has the honour of being in the best scene of AotC when Ben visits him in his room. For me it's the only good scene in that movie, period. Damn, I wish George could maintain that tension a lot more then he did. Sometimes it seems so simple to make a decent Star Wars. We need new blood!

----------------

Alex Cremers

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She probably did the collapsing head thing becasue that's how she was DIRECTED. If Lucas didn't want that, it wouldn't have been there. He puts them in those positions, he's the director.

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She probably did the collapsing head thing becasue that's how she was DIRECTED.  If Lucas didn't want that, it wouldn't have been there.  He puts them in those positions, he's the director.

I agree, Pernilla August is overall a great actress and not that stupid she will actually do the collapsing head on own choice, sort of saying...

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Notice the best part of AOTC, the Tatooine scenes.

Uhhh I am sorry but that was one of the weaker aspects of that film in my opinion.

Haydan Christensen looked absolutely laughable during those "pretty boy on the edge" sequences.

Lucas has no idea how to do serious drama anymore. The best part of the last SW film IMO was the sequences set on the water planet Kamino. Where Ben was learning the truth about the Clone situation. Its a shame MacGregor's solid performance of Ben Kenobi has to be completely wasted in these films.

IMO it will probably be the best of the Prequel's but that is like being the first place medalist at the "special olympics".

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Well, that's your opinion. I agree that the Tatooine scenes were the best parts of AOTC, especially the confession. Hayden really proved himself in that scene to me.

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I would not have waited 14 hours outside with my friends if I truly thought the film was going to be awful.

If I had waited 14 hours in line I would probably have not liked the movie either

K.M.

I did the same thing for The Phantom Menace and had a blast that night, with the same group of people. TPM is still a slighlty entertaining film. AOTC is just plain dull.

Neil - who has only seen AOTC just once...I never thought I'd say that about a Star Wars film.

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Just wanna be a positive voice amongst all the negativity. I love AOTC. I think it's brilliant. It's second only to Empire for me. I totally buy Hayden as Anakin, I think his acting in excellent, I loved so many scenes in this film. I also think the Tatooine sequence is some of the best stuff anywhere in Star Wars. I think the score is incredible. I really love this film. Not a whole lot I would change, myself.

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Just wanna be a positive voice amongst all the negativity.  I love AOTC.  I think it's brilliant.  It's second only to Empire for me.  I totally buy Hayden as Anakin, I think his acting in excellent, I loved so many scenes in this film.  I also think the Tatooine sequence is some of the best stuff anywhere in Star Wars.  I think the score is incredible.  I really love this film.  Not a whole lot I would change, myself.

I must admit...I begrudge you your enjoyment of the film, but I think my distaste for the prequels has heightened my respect for the original trilogy (or the first three movies, if you insist).

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Almost no one here saw AotC on Imax,to me that experience had the WOW factor of the original films.

K.M.

Just like listening to the SACD version of Star Trek: Nemesis on a superior sound system gives it the sonic punch that almost makes up for its musical deficiencies.

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Hey, I love AOTC too, I love TPM as well, they're just nowhere near as good as the OT, but that's because I grew up on them, the prequels are still pretty damn new.

Personally, I think the plot, THE PLOT (not the dialogue or acting or anything) in AOTC is the best plot out of all the SW flicks. It just has the most going for it, the most going on.

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Hey, I love AOTC too, I love TPM as well, they're just nowhere near as good as the OT, but that's because I grew up on them, the prequels are still pretty damn new.  

Personally, I think the plot, THE PLOT (not the dialogue or acting or anything) in AOTC is the best plot out of all the SW flicks. It just has the most going for it, the most going on.

Attack of the Clones had a fascinating premise (as did The Phantom Menace), but its plot was rather weak because it leaned heavily on an empty, unconvincing love story inhabited by a rather colorless Padmé Amidala. The dialogue and acting merely exacerbated a more inherent problem.

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The OT are simply 3 of the best movies ever, not easy at all to live up to. But I love TPM amd specially AOTC. The Kamino sequences are great and I just love how the different cultures and civilizations are portrayed in the prequels...it's one of the greatest pleasures I draw from these movies and in that factor the prequels are superior to the OT...to show us new worlds. TPM was a great movie, but weaker than the Ot. AOTC, on the other hand, it' s movie I'm really very fond of.

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You do remember the whole inspiration for STAR WARS don't you?

…the serial shorts of Flash Gordon that was nothing but pure cheese in a can. That's all that Lucas is doing is making a Pop serial that has heroes and villains that act the way heroes and villains act.

Criticizing any line or action from STAR WARS is like saying this piece of cheese does not taste cheesy enough.

Why can't you see what it is in the first place? Stupid fun. Have you ever seen one of those Flash Gordon shorts?

The STAR WARS are what they are suppose to be: 1.Popular 2.Profitable

I mean look at us, we talk about STAR WARS for hours. The scripts are nothing like normal scripts. I’m sure if he wanted to he could write a good script with NORMAL dialogue (American Graffiti), but even the Original Trilogy was looked at as unconventional dialogue The interviews from the actors attest to that.

Let just be glad that George didn't use classical excerpts (like the use of Liszt's Les Preludes in the serials), and instead listened to Spielberg's suggestion to use Williams.

Nat

I've said my peace, now I'll just rest.

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The first time i saw Phantom menace it was a complete boor. The second time after seeing the original movies for the first time i thought it was brilliant. When i watch ATOC (on dvd) it was all good fun till Hayden thought he could pull off the emotional scenes. Allot of scenes because of him were simply UN watchable, at the beginning of the movie when his decrepit dialogue skill became evident it was passable as just bad acting. However when the movie progressed i really wanted to turn it off. To me he added to the list of problems that ATOC had.

Lucas made some BAD directing decisions; the factory scene was pointless and could have been cut. The execution scene was another scene that just dragged on forever. The scene with Zam was longer that it should have been, the little "I forgot you don't like flying master", "I hate it when he does that" and the overly annoying "How many times have i told you to stay away from powercuplings" lines just made me want keel over and die. The special effect (IMO) brought the film down as well not that it was inadequate but it was just used needlessly. It got to the point where i thought this film was just a ploy for ILM to show off their skills. Why did Ben's friend have to be cg (the one in the cafe) why did the entire environment of corusont have to be cg (when Ben is in the building) i mean you could have done a couple of shots without computer wizardry. At the rate that Lucas is going EP3 will be entirely cg. That seems to be the crutch for his films and that crutch is breaking down because the amount if times he uses cg in the movie no one will care how good it is. One of the only things good in that movie was Yoda!

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I agree with you. I find that Lucas is almost trying to make all these characters not to help the plot or make the story better, but to make work for the artists at ILM. I think that this brings down any humanity in the picture, and when the love scenes kick in, its too late.

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I think there are a few poorly done scenes in AOTC that I see as missed oppurtunities; I say this because I read the book before I saw the movie and I was completely wrapped up in it. I know it may seem hard to believe, but the book is actually really good. The pacing is much better in the book, that whole sense of anticipation of the eminent battle at the end. I saw the movie and admitedly was a little bit bored the first time I saw it, I wondered how I couldn't have been as angaged in the movie as I was the book. I still enjoyed it very much by the end, as I found the battle to be amazing, much like the duel of the fates in TPM. But the second and third time I saw AOTC I absolutely loved it, and have felt that way ever since. I think Nat makes a very interesting point about people understanding what these movies are about, they're not about great drama. not in the sense that most people seem to think it should be.

I am one of the few allies of strilo on the topic of the prequels, because I love TPM too. I think both the prequels, as well as the old Star Wars films, are all great movies in their own way. These movies are about detail, about imagination. Lucas fills every shot in these movies with amazing detail and I do think he is a great orchestrator of atmosphere, from the sand filled streets of the Tatooine space ports to raging tidal waves of Kamino. To work yourselves up over "lame" dialogue which, I hate to break to many of you, is in ALL of the films, is completely missing the point of what these movies are about. They're old-fashioned adventures that offer wonderful worlds of imagination and great action. It is my opinion that many people who have a deep hatred of the prequels have wrongfully immortalized them and hold these prequels to the exact same standard, as if they know the territority since they memorize every line in the movies.

Hey, everyone sees something different when they see a movie. I'm not out to convince anyone that these movies are good and that you should re-evaluate your opinions if you don't agree with me. I just thought I'd share my perspective on the issue as it seems pretty lopsided.

Ted, who greatly anticipates Episode III

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The thing about the book is that it really captures the whole romance a hell of a lot better than the movie.

But it's poorly written, in my opinion.

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I mean, the scene where Shmi dies has some of the worst acting ever.

She dies???

Man, I hate spoilers.

:music:

Anyways, I have inherent optimism for Episode III. Granted, I'm not gonna sit on my butt for the next two years, giddy as a schoolboy, or watch all five movies over and over again in preparation. I might give the classic trilogy one more watch and that's about it. But based on what has to happen in order to get this "oh my mommy died/i can't love who i want/obi-wan's so mean/i lost my hand, boohoo/i never get to have any fun/i'm so tough and no one appreciates me yet" soap opera reject Anakininto the oh-so-powerful, awe-inspiring, terrible-yet-loveable trash-talking and Dark Side-wielding Darth Vader.........it boggles the mind just how much story is left to tell. I mean, just because someone has a high midichlorian count (tongue in cheek on that one, that should've been removed from a phantom edit before jar-jar) and can't love someone and loses his mommy...that can't make him become the most evil and powerful man in the galaxy this side of Exar Kun (sans Palpy), can it?

But, alas and gratefully alike, Episode III will not simply be a giant two-hour plot point dictation, like a title scroll to end all other title scrolls. It has to flow, with dialogue, characters, music, action, and draw the audiences in. So far, most of those points have been sadly lacking in Episodes I and II.

I mean, my dad, for instance, loves the classic Star Wars as much as the next guy. Sure, his favorite is Jedi, but I think that's because it's got the most action and he's seen it the most. I prefer Empire, but that's beside the point. The point is...three times I've sat him down to watch Episode I, and those three times, he's fallen asleep. I figured he had to watch I to pick up on the subtleter points of Ep II, like what's the new Shaft doing in space, who's the bratty kid, who's the babe, who's the old guy that talks like the emperor, and what the hell is a naboo? Both those movies left a bad impression, like seeing an old friend from high school that you used to like, but now it's like "what the hell happened to you?"

It'd be nice if Lucas could get back to storytelling, quotable dialogue, and good old fashioned fun for Episode III. The lightsabre duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan should go down as the best, wheras the duel in the last film was laughable. Sure, we had to see Yoda show us why he's the Master and all, but it still looked out of place, like........but I digress. The point is to await Ep III, not bash Ep II.

Based on what has to happen, the movie has to be good, but it's about execution. A great director can make a crappy story great, whereas a bad director can take an awesome story and totally ruin it. Which face will present itself in Episode III? Two more years, and we'll know.

If it's great, yay. If it blows, well, we've still got three Star Wars movies that don't. And anyone who wants to imagine a better backstory than the one presented in the prequels, well, that's why we've got imaginations.

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TESB

AOTC/Rotj (tie)

ANH

TPM

Eh. Ranking the original Star Wars as next to worst makes me sad, because in a sense, at least for me, it's in a league of its own. Sure, it has to function as one-sixth of a story arc spanning 28 years of cinematic history (1977-2005), but it's also the one that got the ball rolling. It's the first, the only complete Star Wars movie that functions totally well on its own. For instance, every true Star Wars fan may agree that Empire is the best because it's the dark chapter and seriously twists with what we know and love about Star Wars, but its ending leaves us hanging. Han's "dead," Vader's just told us what has to be a total lie, and the Rebellion seems on the verge of defeat. Likewise, Jedi does not function without Empire as a lead-in, since it is Jedi that ties up the loose ends and then ends the story as we need to see it on the big screen.

In a similar sense, then, even though Phantom Menace is the first of the six Star Wars films in story order, to start out watching it first...I don't know, since I saw Jedi first so my perception of Star Wars is totally messed up. But I don't think that the prequels can stand on their own without the classic trilogy to follow through.

I draw a further analogy to the Back to the Future films. A lot of people like Part II the best, since it is that series' parallel to Empire: dark, story twist, and the "death" of a major character at the story's end. And thus, Part III ties it all together, but it is only the first BTTF film that can stand alone as a complete work, with no need for anything to precede or follow.

Thus, my ordering of Star Wars is:

TESB/ANH (tie)

ROTJ

[star Wars video games]

AOTC/TPM (tie)

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my ordering of Star Wars is:

TESB/ANH (tie)

ROTJ

[star Wars video games]

AOTC/TPM (tie)

Whoa, putting the prequels lower than the video games is a bold movie, but I'm going to agree with you. I know I've spent more money on that old vector graphics arcade version of Star Wars than I did on anything AOTC related.

Neil

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Just wanna be a positive voice amongst all the negativity.  I love AOTC.  I think it's brilliant.  It's second only to Empire for me.  I totally buy Hayden as Anakin, I think his acting in excellent, I loved so many scenes in this film.  I also think the Tatooine sequence is some of the best stuff anywhere in Star Wars.  I think the score is incredible.  I really love this film.  Not a whole lot I would change, myself.

Hey look let me make this clear. I myself personally seriously dislike the PRequel films but hey if you dig em more power to you.

Its nice to know SOME people are taking pleasure in these films.

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Its nice to know SOME people are taking pleasure in these films.

$731 million in domestic ticket sales can't be wrong. :music:

Neil

Domestic??? Surely you mean worldwide??

It made 300 million domestic.

BTW money is hardly a judge of quality. I mean for God's Sake! The original Tomb Raider movie made over 100 million dollars.

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Is it?

Well, that's only because of TPM, I'm sure.

Personally, I think the prequels are kicking the crap out of the LOTR movies. While the LOTR flicks are incredibly well done, they just lack substance in my eyes. I don't give a damn about any of the characters or what happens in the movies. They freed that king? Wow. Neat. So what? I always hear that these movies would be so much better if I read the books, but that shouldn't be required for a movie, you shouldn't have required reading to enjoy a movie, it should stand on it's own and explain enough rather than needing to research why something's supposed to be important.

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I always hear that these movies would be so much better if I read the books, but that shouldn't be required for a movie, you shouldn't have required reading to enjoy a movie, it should stand on it's own and explain enough rather than needing to research why something's supposed to be important.

That's funny. Everybody jumped all over me when I criticized Chamber of Secrets for the exact same thing.

Neil

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