What is the last piece of classical music you listened to?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

The Fauré Requiem.

 

Charles Dutoit/Montreal.

 

Perfection.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

On 03/06/2022 at 5:05 AM, bollemanneke said:

Dragging myself through Haydn's Paris symphonies, digital Karajan. Sound is obviously bad, have no idea why he thought digital was superior back then. And the music itself is a bore too. I'm amazed that after 81 symphonies he didn't cover more exciting ground. The father of the symphony maybe, but I'll take late Mozart, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky any time.

You do realize that JW patterned his neo-classical compositions after Haydn?

Probably why they are my least favorite.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

That reminds me, I found JW's classical Stepmom cues surprisingly dull. Like Haydn, come to think of it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

This is obviously popular music in 1934, but in 2022 it's closer to classical than what we would think of as pop.

 

Either way, it's a really lovely, florid arrangement of "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes," reminds me of the style of 30s Hollywood musicals.

 

https://archive.org/details/78_when-your-hearts-on-fire-smoke-gets-in-your-eyes_victor-salon-orchestra-jerome-ker_gbia0186491a/When+Your+Heart's+On+Fire+SMOKE+G+-+Victor+Salon+Orchestra.flac

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Bruckner 2. Needs some trimming down, but overall really good! I like his early work much better.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

Not sure exactly why, but, until recently, I hadn't given Milton Babbitt's work a great deal of attention. I'm glad to have had the chance to begin to rectify that. My favourite so far is the amazing Reflections, which I can't stop listening to these days.

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Babbitt?😳

Really?!😵

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's ok Bruce, he doesn't care if you listen.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

Slander!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

It's ok Bruce, he doesn't care if you listen.

I assume you mean Babbitt.

If so, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.😉

[Disco Stu 15,495]

9 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I assume you mean Babbitt.

If so, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.😉

A reference to this article that Babbitt wrote and the reason he will live on in infamy as the emblem of Cold War music academia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Cares_if_You_Listen

 

Some people say the headline (chosen by the magazine editor) is unfair, but IMO the actual article is way more damning than the headline.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Reminds me of Boulez comment that.his " scores were meant to be studied, not performed" ( or something like that).

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

...IMO the actual article is way more damning than the headline.

 

In what way? I haven't read the full article...

 

5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Reminds me of Boulez comment that.his " scores were meant to be studied, not performed" ( or something like that).

 

Boulez performed his scores frequently.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

If you think I am going to engage in yet ANOTHER *discussion of the merits of this type of music....

You sir, are insane!😅

 

 

* see page 30

26 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

In what way? I haven't read the full article...

 

 

Boulez performed his scores frequently.

Because nobody else would. 😎

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

Okay, now I've read the full article (didn't realise it was so easily available online) and still don't see what's damning about it. And the title obviously isn't an accurate representation of it.

 

17 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

If you think I am going to engage in yet ANOTHER *discussion of the merits of this type of music....

 

I know you're not going to engage! 

[Jurassic Shark 12,074]

42 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Boulez performed his scores frequently.

 

Yes, but people should do what he said, not what he did.

[Loert 2,511]

[bollemanneke 3,348]

the planets, Karajan. What a performance. With reverb!

[Bespin 8,481]

You know, you can add reverb to each and every music you listen to.

 

There are filters for that.

 

But, I agree nothing adds a more natural reverb than a nice tube amp.

 

One day, I'll buy one.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

the planets, Karajan. What a performance. With reverb!

 

Which one?

[Jurassic Shark 12,074]

Probably not the Wiener.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

The 80s version on DG.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Out of historical curiosity I listened to the very first recording of The Planets by the LSO in 1922-23.  Pretty cool actually.

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

The 80s version on DG.

 

One of my favourites. Much better than his 61 Wiener version.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Not surprised at all to hear that.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I was. In most cases, I much prefer his 70s and 60s stuff to the digital 80s recordings, at least where I've heard direct comparisons of the same work. For one thing, the *sound* of the analogue recordings is usually far superior. The readings are also less tight and a bit more lethargic in the 80s (not excessively so, but usually enough to make the new versions inferior and unnecessary), and the Berliner's playing is often a bit sloppy. Not so much that it's a problem, but still a difference to earlier recordings. I generally find his 70s Strauss outstanding and his 80s remakes unnecessary. But he only recorded the Alpensinfonie in the 80s, and it's also one of my favourites, yet I can't help but wonder how good it would have been 10 years earlier. Then again, it was made during his rehearsals for the Salzburg festival, and the later live performance from there (almost unreleased, except for a radio broadcast, some obscure Japanese CD, and this YouTube video presumably sourced from one or the other) is out of this world.

 

The problem with his Wiener Planets is that the playing by the Wiener Philharmoniker isn't just sloppy and dirty, but at times downright ugly. They probably just didn't like the music - Karajan was one of the earliest conductors to bring The Planets to mainland Europe, back when nobody took British composers seriously. Still, I applaud his commitment, and even if it's not a good recording (though some disagree and even rank it much higher than his Berlin remake, though I can't understand it), it may well have played an important role in ensuring the work a place in the European repertoire.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

I couldn't agree more about his 70s recordings sounding far superior, but this one was a really pleasant surprise. Bracing myself for his 80s Beethoven cycle though. 

 

As for the VP underperforming: it might do this orchestra some good not to choose what they like and just get the job done and realise this is 2022. They can find themselves as cultured as they like, every time I compare them to Berlin, Berlin wins. Every time. They just have an energy Vienna hasn't got. Oh dear me, I'm using the word energy...

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

As for the VP underperforming: it might do this orchestra some good not to choose what they like and just get the job done and realise this is 2022. They can find themselves as cultured as they like, every time I compare them to Berlin, Berlin wins. Every time. They just have an energy Vienna hasn't got. Oh dear me, I'm using the word energy...

 

No, this isn't 2022, this was 1961.

 

As for the Wiener and energy (around the same time, just 3 years later):

 

[bollemanneke 3,348]

But the fact that you're saying that they might not have liked it that much is enough for me. It's not up to them to like something. It's up to audiences. If they think they're above society, they should play privately in their own houses.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

But the fact that you're saying that they might not have liked it that much is enough for me. It's not up to them to like something. It's up to audiences. If they think they're above society, they should play privately in their own houses.

 

I disagree. Any artist or group of artists has to be invested, at least to a certain degree, to at least some aspect of what they're doing to produce something that goes beyond being merely competent. In any larger ensemble, you'll always find some people who are less happy with certain parts of a given programme than others, but if something goes against the group's will as a whole, there's not much point in pitting them against their audience. You won't usually get something transcendent out of a body of group of musicians performing something entirely against their will.

 

That's different from just being lazy and doing routine repertoire poorly just because they can't be arsed (as the Philharmoniker at least as the Staatsopernorchester have certainly been guilty of at times - at least in the form the orchestra takes when it's made up of too many unexperience substitute players and bored veterans).

 

And it also doesn't change the fact that I disagree with their preconceptions against contemporary Britsh music in the 60s. But in my view, they shouldn't play it well against their will because of the audience. They should play it well because they should discover it's good music.

[Chen G. 3,949]

58 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

As for the Wiener and energy (around the same time, just 3 years later):

 

 

Lohengrin and "energy" don't work in the same sentence...

[karelm 2,913]

Prokofiev's Seven, They Are Seven.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

MOZART REQUIEM.

 

John Eliot Gardiner.

 

Montiverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists.

 

 

Remember when I posted...

On 05/06/2022 at 12:29 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Perfection.

 

... about...

On 05/06/2022 at 12:29 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

The Fauré Requiem.

Charles Dutoit/Montreal.

...?

Well, it goes double, for this.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Grieg, Golberg suite. Karajan, you know that first movement is supposed to be taken much quicker. You know it. And you don't care.

[Bespin 8,481]

It's pleasant to see some love for Karajan, he was a real architect of music conducting.

 

I always loved that nice DG 2-CD set, including Beethoven's Symphonies 5, 6 & 9 (from the seventies cycle if I remember well).

 

Complementary to the 60s boxset cycle, of course.

 

Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker : Beethoven* – Symphonies Nos. 5, 6 & 9

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

I'm in the high-fidelity, first-class traveling set, and I think I need a Lear jet 

[bollemanneke 3,348]

24 minutes ago, Bespin said:

It's pleasant to see some love for Karajan, he was a real architect of music conducting.

 

I always loved that nice DG 2-CD set, including Beethoven's Symphonies 5, 6 & 9 (from the seventies cycle if I remember well).

 

Complementary to the 60s boxset cycle, of course.

 

Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker : Beethoven* – Symphonies Nos. 5, 6 & 9

 

The 70s set is the best for me so far, though that 9th is surprisingly bad. LOVE his fifth and seventh, though, and the Eroica and 1 is also fantastic.

[Bespin 8,481]

For The Eroica, I'm not even afraid to go with the 80s cycle. I'm like that!

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

The New Four Seasons by Max Richter

I don't know what people here think about but I really love it, what a blast!

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Shostakovich, symphony 10. Guaranteed a spot in my all-time lsit of awful music, possibly right next to that Spartacus overture.

[Bespin 8,481]

Ok I encoded some of my fav Karajan CDs, I'm ready for an explosion of sounds!

• 1963-Karajan Beethoven Symphonies (63)
• 1969-Rostropovich Dvorak Tchaikovsky
• 1971-Mendelssohn Symphonien
• 1972-Verdi Requiem
• 1982-Mozart_ Great Mass C minor
• 2003-Beethoven Symphonies 5.6.9

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Max Richter

EXILES

Nice orchestral version of "...Sunlight" !

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Mozart, great mass in C, Karajan. Very nice! Will check out Gardiner, Marriner and Suzuki later. Christie maybe.

[Jurassic Shark 12,074]

2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Mozart, great mass in C, Karajan. Very nice! Will check out Gardiner, Marriner and Suzuki later. Christie maybe.

 

You have to check out Fricsay's with Maria Stader in top form.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Brahms, violin concerto, wi-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ith Mu-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-utter. Pfffffff...

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Three Haydn London symphonies. These are very good! Much more exuberant and interesting than the Paris ones.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Haydn, symphony 104. Mozart's first is more exciting.

[Bespin 8,481]

I don't know what it takes to excite you, but I personally like Mozart’s symphonies from the twenties onwards. And, and, and, an exception... his Salzburg Symphonies (classified as divertimenti), which are probably the best earlier works of Mozart.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Can anyone recommend me a decent THE RITE OF SPRING?

I'm leaning towards the CSO/Boulez.

Any other good recordings?

[Jurassic Shark 12,074]

I prefer The Firebird.