1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Bad news for potential Williams expansions going forward (Sony Music related): Quote As for the Waxman titles Sony Music has decided to not do deals any more with all the labels so it does throw a monkey wrench into some plans. Hopefully things will change. We'll see MV And a few posts later: Quote Yes. We have 2 major projects pending but other than that the other titles we were looking into and/or started some work on were scrapped. The letter went out to all the labels MV https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=116&threadID=118900&archive=0 Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Shit news but can't expect much less from a shithouse studio. Is there a single thing that awful studio does that isn't complete and utter garbage? In any event, these are the Williams scores Sony own, according to @Jay's studio thread. Sony (Columbia / Tri-Star) 1958 Daddy-O [imperial Productions / American International Pictures] 1960 Because They're Young1963 Diamond Head (FSM 2006) 1963 Gidget Goes To Rome1972 Images (Prometheus 2007)1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017) 1991 Hook (La-La Land 2012 release is not complete) 1997 Seven Years In Tibet 1998 Stepmom 2000 The Patriot Awful news if that means Hook and The Patriot are now out of the picture for Mike to expand. I would've guessed both releases were on LLL's radar in the near future, all things considered. Hopefully Williams and his management has more clout than the clueless executive who made this decision (without even understanding what they were doing). 1977 and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Yes, especially sad about The Patriot and no Ultimate War parts II and III not sourced from film stems bollemanneke and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Shit, just saw the updated post from Mike. Shit! Please, please, PLEASE let a Matessino produced expansion of Hook be one of those two titles. I'll be devo if that admirable but heavily flawed first expansion is all we get from that score, simply due to this nonsensical bureaucratic decision. I mean, as if we didn't need any more reasons to hate Sony after they sat on the Star Wars license for two decades and did nothing? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Any other awaited titles from other composers that could be affected by this cuntheap's decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Looks like some really premium scores like Titanic, The Thin Red Line and Close Encounters came out just in time to avoid this. Not sure about other composers' scores that could be affected. Some Horner stuff maybe? Zorro, Jumanji? 1977 and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 But why can't Sony release them by themselves, since they've been approving expansions by other labels? Also, why this decision? What's in it for Sony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just strikes me as some silver-spoon fed, recently promoted executive justifying their position by making pointless decisions they don't understand, like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Think the money is so minor it's not worth Sony's effort regarding getting all the contractual stuff sorted out (just my uninformed opinion). The market for these things is miniscule after all. This week has been crappy for me soundtrack-wise. First my local importer loses access to the Amazon store, now this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Sony (Columbia / Tri-Star) 1958 Daddy-O [imperial Productions / American International Pictures] 1960 Because They're Young1963 Diamond Head (FSM 2006) 1963 Gidget Goes To Rome1972 Images (Prometheus 2007)1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017) 1991 Hook (La-La Land 2012 release is not complete) 1997 Seven Years In Tibet 1998 Stepmom 2000 The Patriot I don't care about expansions, but a shame if the first three are now out of the question forever. Especially GIDGET GOES TO ROME, which is a delightful score (DADDY and BECAUSE are fun too, but more run-of-the-mill jazz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Damnnnnn. I was hoping the patriot was released in the near future... crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, crumbs said: Sony (Columbia / Tri-Star) 1958 Daddy-O [imperial Productions / American International Pictures] 1960 Because They're Young1963 Diamond Head (FSM 2006) 1963 Gidget Goes To Rome1972 Images (Prometheus 2007)1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017) 1991 Hook (La-La Land 2012 release is not complete) 1997 Seven Years In Tibet 1998 Stepmom 2000 The Patriot Wasn't 1941 a Sony thing too? Anyway, to put it mildly, what a fucking disappointing news this is. Dah-sney delivering shitty quality SW music, Varèse being scrapped little by little by Concord, and now Sony jumping on the bandwagon of fuck-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 At Sony they think they can do better than specialized labels? No They can’t. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Again, why can't MM etc just work for sony? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Well, they could just hire MM themselves. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, crumbs said: In any event, these are the Williams scores Sony own, according to @Jay's studio thread. Sony (Columbia / Tri-Star) MV spoke about Sony Music, not Sony Pictures (it's two different companies). Sony Music controls/has in catalogue thousands of film scores licensed from other film studios as well, not just for Sony Pictures films. Of course it's big with Williams, since a lot of his soundtrack albums since the 1990s were released by Sony Music. So it means Hook, Seven Years In Tibet, Stepmom, Memoirs of a Geisha, Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln, The Book Thief, The Post. Other titles like CE3K, 1941, Home Alone, Rosewood have been already expanded, luckily. crumbs and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 6:57 AM, crumbs said: Shit news but can't expect much less from a shithouse studio. Is there a single thing that awful studio does that isn't complete and utter garbage? In any event, these are the Williams scores Sony own, according to @Jay's studio thread. That's categorized by film studio. MV is talking about Sony the record label, which is a different company than the film studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted February 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said: Yes, especially sad about The Patriot The Patriot soundtrack was released on Hollywood Records (owned by Disney Music Group). So, you'd have to license cues from the OST album from them and the unreleased cues from Sony/Columbia Pictures and Centropolis Entertainment. Will, Yavar Moradi and 1977 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Just strikes me as some silver-spoon fed, recently promoted executive justifying their position by making pointless decisions they don't understand, like this. Yep. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Again, why can't MM etc just work for sony? Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, TownerFan said: MV spoke about Sony Music, not Sony Pictures (it's two different companies). Sony Music controls/has in catalogue thousands of film scores licensed from other film studios as well, not just for Sony Pictures films. Of course it's big with Williams, since a lot of his soundtrack albums since the 1990s were released by Sony Music. So it means Hook, Seven Years In Tibet, Stepmom, Memoirs of a Geisha, Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln, The Book Thief, The Post. Other titles like CE3K, 1941, Home Alone, Rosewood have been already expanded, luckily. This situation is truly and utterly absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2019 Here's a list of films scored by John Williams, whose original OST album was released on a label currently owned by Sony Music (RCA Records, Arista Records, CBS Records, Epic Records, etc) 1969 - The Reivers 1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind 1978 - The Fury (LP Re-recording tracks only, all film tracks owned by Fox) 1979 - 1941 1986 - SpaceCamp 1990 - Home Alone 1991 - Hook 1997 - Rosewood 1997 - Seven Years In Tibet 1998 - Stepmom 1999 - Angela's Ashes 1999 - The Phantom Menace (rights have reverted to Disney) 2002 - Attack of the Clones (rights have reverted to Disney) 2005 - Memoirs of a Geisha 2005 - Revenge of the Sith (rights have reverted to Disney) 2011 - The Adventures of Tintin 2011 - War Horse 2012 - Lincoln 2013 - The Book Thief 2017 - The Post Here's the list again, except I've crossed out all that have already been expanded and bolded those that haven't, and removed the SW prequels since Sony Music has nothing to do with them any more. In brackets, I put the film studio that owns all the music that wasn't on the OST. 1969 The Reivers [Paramount] 1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017) [Sony] 1978 The Fury (La-La Land 2013) [Fox] 1979 1941 (La-La Land 2011) [Universal] 1986 SpaceCamp [Fox] 1990 Home Alone (La-La Land 2015) 1991 Hook [Sony] 1997 Rosewood (La-La Land 2013) [Warner Brothers] 1997 Seven Years In Tibet [Sony]1998 Stepmom [Sony] 1999 Angela's Ashes [Paramount] 2005 Memoirs Of A Geisha [Sony (International) / Disney (UK)] 2011 The Adventures of Tintin [Paramount] 2011 War Horse [Disney] 2012 Lincoln [Disney (US) / Fox (International)] 2013 The Book Thief [Fox] 2017 The Post [Fox] People in this thread talk about Sony just hiring MM to expand these - it doesn't work that way. As you can see, while Sony Music owns the rights to all these scores, various film studios own the extra music that wasn't on the LPs. A third party needs to come along and work with the record label and the film studio to make expanded releases happen. Even when we're talking about Sony the film studio, they are a completely separate entity from Sony Music so it doesn't matter that they both have Sony in the name. It's the same process as licensing from Fox or Paramount or any other film studio. It doesn't work. Now, the STAR WARS (and I believe Indiana Jones) scores are a different story. That's because George sold the music rights off in perpetuity originally, then Disney later bought them back. So in that case, the same entity owns the music rights AND the film rights. So those CAN be expanded by a major label (since Disney owns Disney Records, it's not a separate split label that shares a name like the others). All these other scores are in a different situation and can't be expanded until Sony Music changes their mind (or they were already in the works before this letter went out). Will, crumbs, The Illustrious Jerry and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, TownerFan said: The Patriot soundtrack was released on Hollywood Records (owned by Disney Music Group). So, you'd have to license cues from the OST album from them and the unreleased cues from Sony/Columbia Pictures and Centropolis Entertainment. Of course, I completely forgot that The Patriot OST was released by Hollywood Records. For some reason I thought it was Sony Classical. That's a relief. Still gutted about Hook though. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Thank you for that explanation, Jay. So, assuming that Matessino hasn't redone Hook for LLL and just needs to be approved, does that mean that Hook can't be expanded at all anymore, by no one, until things change? Or can Sony Music work something out with all the rights holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: does that mean that Hook can't be expanded at all anymore, by no one, until things change? That's what I understand. 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Or can Sony Music work something out with all the rights holders? I suppose they could, but everything we've always been told is that a third party needs to come in to make it happen. Maybe someone with more industry expertise will post more information somewhere. crumbs and Yavar Moradi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The third-party thing is something I've never really understood. If I own an OST and you own the unreleased music, why couldn't I license the unreleased music to you, or vice versa? Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Yeah, I always wondered that too. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 hours ago, crumbs said: Looks like some really premium scores like Titanic, The Thin Red Line and Close Encounters came out just in time to avoid this. Not sure about other composers' scores that could be affected. Some Horner stuff maybe? Zorro, Jumanji? For Horner scores it means no chances of expansion for the following: 1992 - Sneakers (leaked version missing some material and has poor audio at times) 1994 - Legends Of The Fall (one of the DVDs had an isolated score) 1995 - Jumanji (one of the DVDs had an isolated score) 1996 - The Spitfire Grill 1998 - Deep Impact 1998 - The Mask Of Zorro 1999 - Bicentennial Man (UK DVD had an isolated score) 1999 - Freedom Song 2000 - The Perfect Storm (leaked version missing a cue) 2001 - Enemy At The Gates 2001 - Iris 2002 - Windtalkers 2002 - The Four Feathers 2003 - The Missing 2005 - The Legend Of Zorro and these which are post 2006 or whatever year the whole AFM / royalty issue makes them impossible anyway: 2010 - The Karate Kid (complete score leaked anyway) 2012 - The Amazing Spider-Man (complete score leaked anyway) 2015 - Southpaw (this score is synth and might not have been restricted by the AFM fees) 2016 - The Magnificent Seven crumbs, Yavar Moradi and bollemanneke 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Hook is on the hook. ☹️ bollemanneke and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Hook, more like Fucked crumbs and mstrox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post phbart 609 Posted February 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Hook, more like Fucked With a hook. Not Mr. Big, crumbs and bollemanneke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 . crumbs and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I still believe MM has secretly tackled this score. That's my happy thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 33 minutes ago, NL197 said: or Horner scores it means no chances of expansion for the following: Here's hoping Sneakers and Jumanji were already in the works before this letter was sent out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Sad to read, though it doesnt mean that expanded releases of these films will never seen the light of day. It just means they probably won't for the forseeable future. The biggest potential problem is that it means a lot of masters won't be transferred digitally and might become unusable and therefore the music will be lost. Unless Sony plans to do the work themselves. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Stefancos said: The biggest potential problem is that it means a lot of masters won't be transferred digitally and might become unusable and therefore the music will be lost. Unless Sony plans to do the work themselves. No, that has nothing to do with this whatsoever. You're thinking of Sony the film studio ,this is Sony Records the music label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I know, but doesnt Sony Music also own the rights to scores from Sony the film studio? I may my wrong, but doesnt a expanded score release require a license from both the label who own the OST and the film studio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I know, but doesnt Sony Music also own the rights to scores from Sony the film studio? Absolutely not. 22 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I may my wrong, but doesnt a expanded score release require a license from both the label who own the OST and the film studio? Yes, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 . bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 As I understand it, OST rights (if applicable) reside with a music label (possibly in perpetuity, possibly not), film score music not released on the OST resides with the studio and music publishing rights belong to the entities that deal with those. I believe all three parties need to be on board to facilitate a complete score release (usually handled by a 3rd Party such as LLL, or in the case of Varese, as they often hold perpetual rights, they would be the 3rd Party and the OST rights holder). Obviously this is a generalisation and each title is unique. There are other complicated issues such as mechanical rights (physical media) which I do not pretend to understand. Not sure if that's what you were asking? Please forgive any errors in this crude explanation, I'm by no means an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 In the case of Titanic, all of the OST cues included on LLL's release were licensed for use by Sony Music. All of the added material not on the OST - most of the LLL album - had to be licensed for use by Paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Jay said: No, that has nothing to do with this whatsoever. You're thinking of Sony the film studio ,this is Sony Records the music label. Don't music labels also "lose" or "misplace" album masters though? Wasn't that the case with LLL's ET and Intrada's Jaws (they had to use masters from the UK or something)? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Yes, it seems that the most likely reason the original 1st generation tapes from the recording sessions for the Jaws LP re-recording and the ET final day recording session cannot be found is because they burned up in the Universal Records fire bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 This is sad news that other scores held by Sony won't get expanded releases in the foreseeable future. That means Spider-Man 1 and 2 (even though MV said most likely not gonna happen) that have been listed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Ah well. Cherish what you have. bollemanneke and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 We'll always have the OSTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 That's what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,155 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Actually, they could have done more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,436 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, bollemanneke said: The third-party thing is something I've never really understood. If I own an OST and you own the unreleased music, why couldn't I license the unreleased music to you, or vice versa? I'm sure Sony (the record label) COULD license unreleased music from a film studio and release an expansion on their own. It's just not part of their regular business model. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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