Jump to content
JTWfan77

Sony Music no longer dealing with soundtrack labels

Recommended Posts

The OST was released on Virgin Records, which is now owned by UMG (Universal Music)


The unreleased music would have to be licensed from Lucasfilm, who produced the film, and possibly MGM (now owned by Fox, soon to be owned by Disney) who distributed the film

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jay said:

That's categorized by film studio.  MV is talking about Sony the record label, which is a different company that the film studio.

 

Damn, that list is even more depressing now we know how many Williams scores Sony Music own the rights to. Basically his entire catalogue from 2005 onwards! Not that I expected any of those scores to be released imminently due to the hefty union fees, but there's some solid stuff in there from pre-2005. Gutted about Memoirs of a Geisha, which I'd hoped MM might be looking into (lots of unreleased music on that one).

 

Hook has to be the worst news though, right off the back of a 4K remaster too. Thoroughly shit of Sony to just drop this news on labels without warning, rather than provide a grace period of 6-12 months of their intentions. I have no doubt, as with the Fox/Disney acquisition situation, if the labels and Mike had known this was coming they would have prioritized contracts for Sony Music scores before the deadline, even if it meant putting other releases on the back-burner.

 

No doubt Williams would have been supportive of a fast-tracked Hook or Reivers expansion if he knew the situation. Especially worried about the latter, as older scores can be lost to time with aging elements. 🤬

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh yes, forgot that was a late 2015 release.

 

I guess we'll know before the end of the year what LLL's two titles were. Hopefully a few of the other labels were looking at some of that great Horner stuff. Would love a Jumanji expansion. 

 

Reivers is a huge loss considering its historical significance in the Spielberg/Williams collaboration. It seemed a natural follow-up release to The Cowboys as well. :(

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is incredibly disappointing. What is wrong with Sony Music? Obviously, they have no sense. Unless the Maestro, his management and Mike Mattessino can work a miracle or two, there is no hope of an expanded and definitive release for The Reivers, SpaceCamp, Hook, Seven Years In Tibet, Stepmom, Angela's Ashes, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Adventures of Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln, The Book Thief and The Post. I know the latter six titles would not happen in the foreseeable future, but it is still disappointing that it will never happen. Anyone know why Sony Music has made this obviously stupid decision?

 

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Here's a list of films scored by John Williams, whose original OST album was released on a label currently owned by Sony Music (RCA Records, Arista Records, CBS Records, Epic Records, etc)

I've crossed out all that have already been expanded and bolded those that haven't, and removed the SW prequels since Sony Music has nothing to do with them any more.  In brackets, I put the film studio that owns all the music that wasn't on the OST.

 

1969 The Reivers [Paramount]

1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017) [Sony]

1978 The Fury (La-La Land 2013) [Fox]

1979 1941 (La-La Land 2011) [Universal]

1986 SpaceCamp [Fox]

1990 Home Alone (La-La Land 2015)

1991 Hook [Sony]

1997 Rosewood (La-La Land 2013) [Warner Brothers]

1997 Seven Years In Tibet [Sony]
1998 Stepmom [Sony]

1999 Angela's Ashes [Paramount]

2005 Memoirs Of A Geisha [Sony (International) / Disney (UK)]

2011 The Adventures of Tintin [Paramount]

2011 War Horse [Disney]

2012 Lincoln [Disney (US) / Fox (International)]

2013 The Book Thief [Fox]

2017 The Post [Fox]

 

People in this thread talk about Sony just hiring MM to expand these - it doesn't work that way.  As you can see, while Sony Music owns the rights to all these scores, various film studios own the extra music that wasn't on the LPs.  A third party needs to come along and work with the record label and the film studio to make expanded releases happen.  Even when we're talking about Sony the film studio, they are a completely separate entity from Sony Music so it doesn't matter that they both have Sony in the name.  It's the same process as licensing from Fox or Paramount or any other film studio.  It doesn't work.

 

Now, the STAR WARS (and I believe Indiana Jones) scores are a different story.  That's because George sold the music rights off in perpetuity originally, then Disney later bought them back.  So in that case, the same entity owns the music rights AND the film rights.  So those CAN be expanded by a major label (since Disney owns Disney Records, it's not a separate split label that shares a name like the others).  All these other scores are in a different situation and can't be expanded until Sony Music changes their mind (or they were already in the works before this letter went out).

 

Thank God the Maestro's Star Wars scores have been spared from the stupidity of Sony Music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the 2012 edition of Hook, none of the soundtracks mentioned on that list are worth fussing over. MoaG, War Horse, Tintin, Lincoln, The Post, Book Thief, all got more than sufficient releases. Personally, I couldn't care less about the pre-Jaws scores, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, gkgyver said:

With the 2012 edition of Hook, none of the soundtracks mentioned on that list are worth fussing over. MoaG, War Horse, Tintin, Lincoln, The Post, Book Thief, all got more than sufficient releases. Personally, I couldn't care less about the pre-Jaws scores, too.

 

I vehemently disagree concerning Memoirs, War Horse and especially Tintin with its 2 separate recording sessions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

I vehemently disagree concerning Memoirs, War Horse and especially Tintin with its 2 separate recording sessions.

 

Oh yeah but how often are we going to listen to all that repetition? Williams probably loaded the albums with the best stuff anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

This is incredibly disappointing. What is wrong with Sony Music?

 

Most companies prefer to use their (limited) resources on stuff that maximizes their profit.

 

8 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

it is still disappointing that it will never happen.

 

Never is quite a strong word. Who knows - in ten years they might change their policy again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Smeltington said:

 

I'm sure Sony (the record label) COULD license unreleased music from a film studio and release an expansion on their own. It's just not part of their regular business model.

 

I wish that were likely but this niche is so tiny I doubt they would bother (Sony certainly didn't make the effort with Titanic, one of the best selling soundtracks of all time).

 

We seem to have reached a watershed moment in the Golden Age of soundtrack expansions:

 

  1. Disney buys Fox (only deals with Intrada so everyone else now excluded)
  2. Robert Townson leaves Varese
  3. Nick Redman, one of the champions of soundtrack restoration and preservation, passes away
  4. Sony Music cans licencing

 

What next?

 

So did everyone's OOP Sony Music licenced expansions just double in value overnight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, crumbs said:

Shit news but can't expect much less from a shithouse studio. Is there a single thing that awful studio does that isn't complete and utter garbage?

 

In any event, these are the Williams scores Sony own, according to @Jay's studio thread.

 

Sony (Columbia / Tri-Star)
1958 Daddy-O [imperial Productions / American International Pictures]
1960 Because They're Young
1963 Diamond Head (FSM 2006)
1963 Gidget Goes To Rome
1972 Images (Prometheus 2007)
1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (La-La Land 2017)
1991 Hook (La-La Land 2012 release is not complete)
1997 Seven Years In Tibet
1998 Stepmom
2000 The Patriot

 

Awful news if that means Hook and The Patriot are now out of the picture for Mike to expand. I would've guessed both releases were on LLL's radar in the near future, all things considered.

 

Hopefully Williams and his management has more clout than the clueless executive who made this decision (without even understanding what they were doing).

Who said they are not exactly the two projects pending? ;)

 

Karol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Patriot is Hollywood Records so not affected. Hook we are all holding thumbs for.

I wouldn't be surprised if that came out soonish.

 

Karol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't care less about Seven Years in Tibet since they would probably not include the music box in an expansion.

 

As for Titanic, it's still in print, so that must mean the general public was only interested in Titanic in 1997, no matter what a masterpiece it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, phbart said:

Makes sense, but then UMG would've done the same thing.

 

Pray that Sony Music doesn't buy Universal Music Group.

 

11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

As for Titanic, it's still in print, so that must mean the general public was only interested in Titanic in 1997, no matter what a masterpiece it is.

 

I wasn't planning on getting LLL's Titanic and Dances With Wolves but now I'm thinking I should.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Do! It's a great release. Not complete, but 99% complete. It's now out of stock though.

 

Bugger. Hopefully they'll still be able to press another batch. I'm not concerned about 1% missing music fortunately. 

 

Edit: seems Titanic is in stock at LLL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

The earlier expansion of Dances with Wolves is more than enough!

 

I've being going back and forth about that myself (I have the OST and the expansion). I think it's that darn gorgeous artwork on the LLL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

...and you should be able to find it new for as little as £5.

 

Actually, I often find the earlier expansion a tad too long. So perhaps the OST is the best choice. :)

 

So what you're saying is we need a whittle of the expansion (there's some nice bits on there missing from the OST) ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jay said:

The OST was released on Virgin Records, which is now owned by UMG (Universal Music)


The unreleased music would have to be licensed from Lucasfilm, who produced the film, and possibly MGM (now owned by Fox, soon to be owned by Disney) who distributed the film

 

 

 

I's be surprised if MGM has any ownership over Willow. Lucasfilm typically retains all rights to their properties (apart from temporary licencing for video or soundtrack releasing). The exception to this appears to be Indiana Jones, which seems to involve Paramount in some capacity. Remember that the initial theatrical release of Willow went out under the MGM banner, the first video and Laserdisc release was handled by RCA Columbia, while the later DVD and eventual Blu-ray were through 20th Century Fox (the latest BD is of course from Disney). The Ewoks TV movies were also released on video (and theatrically outside the US) by MGM whereas the DVD release went to Fox (as they were handling the SW home video releases at that stage). Of course I could be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I couldn't care less about Seven Years in Tibet since they would probably not include the music box in an expansion.

 

I've been desperately waiting for a remaster of SYiT just so I can listen to it in peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JTWfan77 said:

Okay, I'll bite. ;)

 

What exactly is wrong with the current release in terms of sound quality?

 

It's got Shawn Murphy's trademark (especially of that era) over-boosted bass. And in even higher frequencies than usual, which means that it just doesn't give the percussion more oomph, but it actually makes the double basses drone, even with a good amp and speakers. In other words, it makes €2000+ equipment sound like a €20 system with full bass boost enabled. I find the main title barely listenable because of this, at least on speakers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

It's got Shawn Murphy's trademark (especially of that era) over-boosted bass. And in even higher frequencies than usual, which means that it just doesn't give the percussion more oomph, but it actually makes the double basses drone, even with a good amp and speakers. In other words, it makes €2000+ equipment sound like a €20 system with full bass boost enabled. I find the main title barely listenable because of this, at least on speakers.

 

Oh dear. I've never noticed that before. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. Thankfully my Linn Kanns have very little bass so it's probably less of a problem on my system.

 

Wonder if it's correctable in a waveform editor without adding artefacts? Unlike brick-walling that is.

 

What other Murphy engineered OSTs from that era are affected? 

 

Yes I'm probably opening Pandora's box for myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the wonderful things about a somewhat good system is that basses are basses, mids are mids and highs are highs. In a good recording, like Rosewood or The Final Frontier, you can get wonderfully clear and strong bass lines because they are distinct from the higher frequencies. (It also means that you at first have to get used to some older and/or lesser recordings sounding comparatively flat). I think of all CDs I have, Tibet is the only one that completely kills that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

One of the wonderful things about a somewhat good system is that basses are basses, mids are mids and highs are highs. In a good recording, like Rosewood or The Final Frontier, you can get wonderfully clear and strong bass lines because they are distinct from the higher frequencies. (It also means that you at first have to get used to some older and/or lesser recordings sounding comparatively flat). I think of all CDs I have, Tibet is the only one that completely kills that.

 

Have you checked the remastered release of SYiT? It's got a somewhat different frequency spectrum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...