John 2,032 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Which innovative sci-fi thriller and score do you prefer; the Wachowskis/Davis' The Matrix, or Nolan/Zimmer's Inception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 The Matrix for both, AINEC. Unlucky Bastard and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,998 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Ditto. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Morpheus is fightin' Neo! Trent B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,649 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Matrix for both. Movie was a close call. Score was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ii2 210 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Never watched them.😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Inception. I saw The Matrix once and didn't think much of it. It was alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,649 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Context plays into it a lot. My age, the fact that it was new, I saw it in theaters, etc - The Matrix was for me, and not just because my phone autocorrected it to mstrox Trent B and Glóin the Dark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2019 Trent B, SteveMc, Naïve Old Fart and 6 others 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Prefer Inception as a movie. I like both scores alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I said matrix because i guess I like it more. I think Inception is just an "IVE MADE A MONSTEROUS HIT SO MY EGO ALLOWS ME THE ABILITY TO MAKE A REALLY BAD MOVIE THAT NO ONE CAN DARE CRITICIZE!" Aka Filmaker gone amok. Gruesome Son of a Bitch and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,649 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Zimmer’s very good Inception score would stand above many scores for me, but not Davis’ excellent Matrix score(s). If you include the Matrix’s rock/nü-metal songs in the equation, Inception is better overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Haven't seen Inception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Matrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi 404 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The Matrix Forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Last Starfighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I watched Inception yesterday for the first time in years, and holy crap is it ridiculous. It's just too laughable to take seriously. I really took it seriously years ago, but now it seems kind of tacky and funny. It''s wonderfully made. A good set of ideas and full of good performances and cinematography. Nice score from Zimmer too, even if it is ripping off some of Arnold's Bond stuff. But that's understandable considering Inception's Bond-like settings and action, like the on-foot chases, car chases and the ski-chases. But I found myself laughing yesterday while listening to the dialogue and watching the story get further 'inventive' with its excuses and conveniences to explain why characters can't do something easily. It gets more and more like the characters (and Nolan) is just making things up to keep the story going. "Unconstructed dream space." " The dreamers projections are hostile." Etc. It's like a spoof. It seems like a sci-fi channel B movie with a big hollywood budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,948 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the Matrix, the answer couldn't be more simple, to me. The Matrix actually has some dramatic elements. Inception's just a (good) heist movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said: Last Starfighter! Wrong! No soup for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 12 hours ago, Jay said: AINEC. I had to look that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 THE MATRIX for film, INCEPTION for score. But -- as with most of these vs. topics -- both are fine films and scores. I prefer the Juno Reactor/Don Davis stuff from the sequels more than the 'pure' Davis stuff for the first film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,998 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 hours ago, leeallen01 said: I watched Inception yesterday for the first time in years, and holy crap is it ridiculous. It's just too laughable to take seriously. I really took it seriously years ago, but now it seems kind of tacky and funny. It''s wonderfully made. A good set of ideas and full of good performances and cinematography. Nice score from Zimmer too, even if it is ripping off some of Arnold's Bond stuff. But that's understandable considering Inception's Bond-like settings and action, like the on-foot chases, car chases and the ski-chases. But I found myself laughing yesterday while listening to the dialogue and watching the story get further 'inventive' with its excuses and conveniences to explain why characters can't do something easily. It gets more and more like the characters (and Nolan) is just making things up to keep the story going. "Unconstructed dream space." " The dreamers projections are hostile." Etc. It's like a spoof. It seems like a sci-fi channel B movie with a big hollywood budget. I actually think this is entirely intentional. I don't really know where the "mindbending masterpiece" label came from. It was clearly bit more tongue-in-cheek than all the other Nolan films. I never treated it as anything but a fun, if somewhat ridiculous, romp. And it is also not a favourite of mine. Karol KK and leeallen01 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, Thor said: I prefer the Juno Reactor/Don Davis stuff from the sequels more than the 'pure' Davis stuff for the first film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Inception for the movie. Matrix has aged terribly. I went with Inception for the score too because I can barely remember anything from the Matrix although I know it’s held in high regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 7,998 Posted February 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2019 I don't Wachowski's film has aged badly at all. I mean yeah, sure, technology on screen looks ancient. But because film tells a mythical hero's journey in its purest form it sort doesn't matter. I would consider it a classic. Hell, it turns 20 this year! The score (along with its two sequels) definitely marks the highpoint of big blockbuster scoring of the past few decades. I'd go as far and say it's right up there with Potter and Middle-earth music. Perhaps not in terms of popularity but quality-wise it's up there. Karol Trent B, leeallen01, John and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,649 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The fashion and music (non-score) has aged pretty poorly, but the movie holds up pretty well otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yeah, production design-wise it's very much a product of its time and countless parodies and homages devalued its actual breakthroughs, but thankfully it doesn't take itself too seriously, that happened with 2's ending and pretty much all of 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It holds up very well indeed. I think it does take itself very seriously, with some great, lofty ideas, but that's a major PLUS for me. I don't like genre films like this that "don't take themselves seriously". A. A. Ron and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,514 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 What I meant by not that serious is that while Inception for example tries taking a somewhat "realistic" approach, the Matrix has a quirky world with underground resistance in all black leather, programs inside a simulation solving conflict by means of kung fu, and a person coming back to life from true love's kiss. It has fun with itself. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I don't necessarily see it as 'fun', I see it as creating a universe; a backdrop with its own set of rules that the lofty, existential ideas can be attached to. All the references are organically connected, it's not really some self-deprecating 'let's have a fun with things'-type of film, IMO. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, crocodile said: The score (along with its two sequels) definitely marks the highpoint of big blockbuster scoring of the past few decades. I'd go as far and say it's right up there with Potter and Middle-earth music. Perhaps not in terms of popularity but quality-wise it's up there. I don't think the other two scores hold up as well, outside of some brilliant moments. Too Hollywood-ized and "loud" for much of it. The first score is a genre-blending masterpiece though and more thoughtfully crafted. Definitely up there with modern film music's finest. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I didn't mind the score to the third one. But the second one is loaded with too much techno shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 They're both fun (I like the Juno Reactor/Davis hybrid stuff). But they're quite a number of steps down from the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The score to the first Matrix is indeed good, but it's basically a John Adams rip-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 John Adams wrote music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 He's the guy Hannibal played in Amistad, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 He wrote the Adams Family theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: The score to the first Matrix is indeed good, but it's basically a John Adams rip-off. I think that's a lot more dismissive of the work than it deserves. Yes, it pulls a lot from Adams, stylistically, but it's also a much more diverse package of modernisms, Horner tropes, 90s techno/pop riffs, twelve-tone rows and etc. Even Davis' take on the Adams-esque cells/riffs is more diatonic than you'd hear from Adams himself. He clearly pulled from that vocabulary to build his own thing. It's a great amalgamation of modernist techniques and homages filtered through Davis' own, more appropriate cinematic language. To say "it's all John Adams" is an easy cop-out I think. mstrox and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ghostbusters II said: He's the guy Hannibal played in Amistad, right? Wasn't that Quincy Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, KK said: Even Davis' take on the Adams-esque cells/riffs is more diatonic than you'd hear from Adams himself. I guess that was easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,948 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Bilbo said: Matrix has aged terribly. 2 hours ago, crocodile said: I don't Wachowski's film has aged badly at all. I mean yeah, sure, technology on screen looks ancient. But because film tells a mythical hero's journey in its purest form it sort doesn't matter. I would consider it a classic. Hell, it turns 20 this year! Indeed. I think that a film only ever truly ages when the sensibilities of it age. If the story is good, the film will hold up even if all of its effects shots have dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Thor said: THE MATRIX for film, INCEPTION for score. But -- as with most of these vs. topics -- both are fine films and scores. I prefer the Juno Reactor/Don Davis stuff from the sequels more than the 'pure' Davis stuff for the first film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I guess that was easier. Maybe. I don't think I'd ever call putting something like The Matrix together an easy feat. It's one thing to stylistically commit to either your own singular voice or aping another. But to tie together a wild genre-blending cocktail like The Matrix that doesn't collapse under the weight of its ambitions is impressive. At the end of the day, Davis' The Matrix manages to pull colours from the contemporary concert music, the pop world of the 90s and existing cinematic vocabulary to create great film music. I think that's a key distinction to make. Someone like Adams, who's spent his whole life trying to break novel stylistic ground and meditate on what he's trying to say with his art has the luxury of time and artistic space (and generous commissions) to do what he does. Film composers on the other hand, especially B-list guys like Davis (who industry players hardly know), have about 3-4 weeks to write, orchestrate and record hours of music that has be fine-tailored to a motion picture, so naturally there's a lot less you can do or say with your work (aka a lot more artistic compromise involved). It's why a lot of modern film music actually isn't very interesting on its own. But to build something as ambitious and crafty as The Matrix is cause for celebration. I think it boasts a lot of integrity on Davis' part. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I just remember I couldn't stand The Matrix in high school because it took all the attention away from TPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So is there anything interesting that was left out of the expanded score presentation of The Matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 No idea. But I love the rooftop bit, when Trinity is about to jump from one building to the other. That brass ostinato always makes me think the music is going to break out into the SUPERMAN march (which is kinda fitting, since she's about to 'fly'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Apparently it's missing a track from the OST. Not sure which one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,051 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Thor said: No idea. I'm not surprised. 1 minute ago, dougie said: Apparently it's missing a track from the OST. Not sure which one. That's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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