Poll: Favorite JW Concerto and Concerto Movement

[Thor 7,465]

Yeah, the tuba concerto is probably the closest to his film music; the most accesible. I like it, but it's a little too straighforward, perhaps.

[_deleted_ 203]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

Yeah, the tuba concerto is probably the closest to his film music; the most accesible. I like it, but it's a little too straighforward, perhaps.

the way the third mvt opens:

🎉🎉 ...  🎉🎉!

[TJH132 48]

20 hours ago, A Ghost From Highwood said:

the way the third mvt opens:

🎉🎉 ...  🎉🎉!

 

I love the chirping brass that follows that.

[Tom 4,639]

bumping this.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

On 5/11/2019 at 8:06 PM, Disco Stu said:

I hadn't seen this thread before.

 

I voted trumpet for both.  It has great personal meaning for me.  It's one of my favorite pieces of music, period.

 

I agree with Disco Stu!

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

Who would have thought that everyone's favourite JW concerto would be for bassoon rather than, say, a brass or string instrument, especially the former given how many of his best known works are seriously brass heavy. For me it was a tough call between Five Sacred Trees and his Cello Concerto, both of which I think are terrific (although I will once again fly the flag for the Slatkin conducted performances of each on Naxos which I find much more engaging than Williams' original recordings). I've never fully got into the Violin Concerto or Treesong (whether you want to call it a concerto or not, but it largely fulfils the requirements of the form). To me it just sounds like a kinda generic 20th century concerto, with little that marks out Williams' style or gift for melody.

 

The Trumpet Concerto (which now has an impressive three recordings) is fine enough, but it does certainly feel consciously like it's trying to avoid the kind of brass writing Williams typically uses for his film music. The Tuba Concerto also has three recordings and I like it very much, even if the first recording (which I think is out of print anyway) is way too slow and does it no favours at all. The recording on BIS is excellent.

 

Both the horn and oboe concertos are lovely, the former in particular being very fine indeed and more idiomatic to Williams' own style.

 

I understand the comments that Williams could have been a renowned 20th century concert composer even without his film work, but on the basis of the concertos he's written to date, I rather doubt he'd have written a dozen or more themes that a sizeable proportion of the world would recognise (even adjusting for classical music being more niche than movies).

[Disco Stu 15,495]

22 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I understand the comments that Williams could have been a renowned 20th century concert composer even without his film work, but on the basis of the concertos he's written to date, I rather doubt he'd have written a dozen or more themes that a sizeable proportion of the world would recognise (even adjusting for classical music being more niche than movies).

 

Well the alternate reality question I'll never know the answer to is: How would his concert music be different if he had not been a film composer first and foremost?  Like if he had been more of a concert composer that dabbled in film (like Copland or Corigliano).

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Possibly more accessible, like a mixture of his film works and concert works in this reality?

[SteveMc 2,674]

I would say no.  If his concert career took off in the 60s, he probably would have continued to write more stuff in the vein of the Essay for Strings, Prelude and Fugue, and Flute Concerto.  Possibly he would have, like Rouse, allowed a little more traditional consonant forms into his music in the 90s and beyond, but even then something like JWs Oboe Concerto would be about as far as it would get.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

He'd probably have to be a professor at a university music department.  I wouldn't wish that fate on dear Johnny!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

He wouldn't need to be a professor to get a decent income. He could continue to be a session musician, mixing assignments in film music, jazz, and classical music. He could also have continued making jazz records.

[Falstaft 2,132]

Ooh, don't mind seeing this bumped -- especially since, in a few months time it'll have to be updated with another violin concerto! 

 

At the time I voted the Viola Concerto for favorite overall and the final movement of the Horn Concerto for movement, and I'm fairly certain I stick with that choice now. 

 

Williams better get cracking on that Concerto for Trombone, Concerto for English Horn, Concerto for Double Bass, and Concerto for Percussion to round out the rest of the traditional Romantic Orchestra! He's so close!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Nm

[Tom 4,639]

2 hours ago, Falstaft said:

Ooh, don't mind seeing this bumped -- especially since, in a few months time it'll have to be updated with another violin concerto! 

 

At the time I voted the Viola Concerto for favorite overall and the final movement of the Horn Concerto for movement, and I'm fairly certain I stick with that choice now. 

 

Williams better get cracking on that Concerto for Trombone, Concerto for English Horn, Concerto for Double Bass, and Concerto for Percussion to round out the rest of the traditional Romantic Orchestra! He's so close!

I have always wondered about the trombone.  Wasn't that one of his first instruments he learned to play?  

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

13 hours ago, Falstaft said:

Ooh, don't mind seeing this bumped -- especially since, in a few months time it'll have to be updated with another violin concerto! 

 

At the time I voted the Viola Concerto for favorite overall and the final movement of the Horn Concerto for movement, and I'm fairly certain I stick with that choice now. 

 

Williams better get cracking on that Concerto for Trombone, Concerto for English Horn, Concerto for Double Bass, and Concerto for Percussion to round out the rest of the traditional Romantic Orchestra! He's so close!

A shame that Naxos haven't got round to recording the Viola Concerto given the favourable comments it's received. Maybe there isn't a published performing edition? I would have thought it would be a pretty good seller alongside their other Williams concerto recordings (several of which are also premier recordings). The Horn Concerto is terrific though.

 

18 hours ago, SteveMc said:

I would say no.  If his concert career took off in the 60s, he probably would have continued to write more stuff in the vein of the Essay for Strings, Prelude and Fugue, and Flute Concerto.  Possibly he would have, like Rouse, allowed a little more traditional consonant forms into his music in the 90s and beyond, but even then something like JWs Oboe Concerto would be about as far as it would get.  

 

It strikes me as possible that he consciously writes concert music that is different to his film music in tone and style, so without a film music career he may have evolved into writing concert music that was lushly tonal and filled with melodies, but this seems less likely. More likely he'd have sounded more like any number of other 20th century concert composers - as much as anything, it's his almost unmatched gift for memorable melodies which is one of the defining features of his music which isn't nearly so obvious in his concert works (fine though they are).

 

As a slight digression, I remember seeing Ennio Morricone conduct his Viola Concerto which, if memory serves, has a pre-recorded element along with the live soloist. Frankly, it was horrible; scratchy and atonal (possible, more of a technical exercise than anything you'd want to listen to very often (unless you're into that kind of music which I appreciate some are). Certainly the audience were pretty restless during, perking up immeasurably when the concert returned to film work. I remember hoping that it would be something like Finale Di Un "Concerto Romantico Interotto" from Canone Inverso, which is a 4 minute mini violin concerto, full of memorable melodies, lushly orchestrated and hugely enjoyable. Alas no. Ennio clearly wanted to flex his modernist muscles...

[ChrisAfonso 186]

40 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

A shame that Naxos haven't got round to recording the Viola Concerto given the favourable comments it's received. Maybe there isn't a published performing edition? I would have thought it would be a pretty good seller alongside their other Williams concerto recordings (several of which are also premier recordings). The Horn Concerto is terrific though.

 

Actually, the viola concerto is publicly available from Hal Leonard, as are most of the other concertos. It's the violin and cello concertos (along with the Flute and Clarinet) that are unpublished, despite being around for a long time, and seemingly have to be specifically requested for renting - which may be due to his repeated revising of those, and thus not wanting to pin down one "definitive" published edition?

(I'd love to get my hands on the violin concerto sheets one day)

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

5 hours ago, ChrisAfonso said:

 

Actually, the viola concerto is publicly available from Hal Leonard, as are most of the other concertos. It's the violin and cello concertos (along with the Flute and Clarinet) that are unpublished, despite being around for a long time, and seemingly have to be specifically requested for renting - which may be due to his repeated revising of those, and thus not wanting to pin down one "definitive" published edition?

(I'd love to get my hands on the violin concerto sheets one day)

Interesting. Even more of a surprise than nobody has recorded the Viola Concerto (or the clarinet one come to that). Maybe Naxos will get round to the others some day. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

That would be terrific! Even though I think the best thing possible would be that the Maestro records it himself why not with the Berlin Philharmoniker in october if he still can come there...

[j39m 75]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:02 PM, Falstaft said:

Ooh, don't mind seeing this bumped -- especially since, in a few months time it'll have to be updated with another violin concerto! 

 

...

 

Williams better get cracking on that Concerto for Trombone, Concerto for English Horn, Concerto for Double Bass, and Concerto for Percussion to round out the rest of the traditional Romantic Orchestra! He's so close!

 

Makes me wish that Deutsche Grammophon would send a team out to Tanglewood to record the world premiere of the violin concerto no. 2!

 

Has Williams stated that this is soloist bingo? Because it sure seems like he's going for it 😆

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I will go to my grave referring to it as the third violin concerto!  The line must be drawn here!  No further!

[Falstaft 2,132]

12 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I will go to my grave referring to it as the third violin concerto!  The line must be drawn here!  No further!

 

It is curious that Williams didn't call TreeSong a concerto, since it really is one in all but name. I wonder if Williams was aiming to emphasize the violin's coloristic, evocative nature in this piece. TreeSong, while by no means easy, has less in the way of pure technical fireworks just for the sake of virtuosity than his other concerti. 

 

In this way, TreeSong shares yet another thing in common with Dutilleux's L'arbe des Songs, which also was not meant to demand showy technical complexity in the way concerti usually do. (The other connections, which I'm sure have been observed here already, are the sylvan subject matter and the harmonic & orchestrational style; in fact, I would be surprised if JW hadn't studied Dutilleux's concerto closely when writing TreeSong)

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I voted for Jurassic Park.

[SteveMc 2,674]

13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I will go to my grave referring to it as the third violin concerto!  The line must be drawn here!  No further!

I always viewed TreeSong as Concerto No.2 as well.  It might get a bit lost in the shuffle if it is not.  

I suppose Williams views in as a kind of tone poem for violin and orchestra.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Let's refer to it as his violin concerto no. 1.5.

[GerateWohl 4,337]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Let's refer to it as his violin concerto no. 1.5.

No more. No less.

[j39m 75]

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Let's refer to it as his violin concerto no. 1.5.

 

Heaven forfend that naming be frivolous!