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Hans Zimmer's DUNE (2021)


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Listening to the sketchbook now.  The vocals in the "Song of the Sisters" track are straight out his his Electro material from TASM2.

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Some of it oddly reminds me of Mermaids from On Stranger Tides. Yet, that's a stronger theme! 

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Some of it oddly reminds me of Mermaids from On Stranger Tides. Yet, that's a stronger theme! 

That's the Green Light Motif from the third movie!

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

Listening to the sketchbook now.  The vocals in the "Song of the Sisters" track are straight out his his Electro material from TASM2.

Agreed. There’s a good minute there where I had to check to make sure I was still listening to Dune lol. But then it starts to go off on its own thing. 
 

On “House Atreides” now. Really dig that one. I like the unexpected semi-Celtic take on that idea. A nice contrast the swoooshy desert stuff. 

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Yea, that Eelectro-ish part was near the beginning of the track and then the vocals later in the tracks are completely different style

 

I finished the album, its got good ideas occasionally but it's not consistently engaging for its 102 minutes.  And that's all it is, a collection of ideas, there's no narrative.  The tracks could have been presented in any order really.  I expect to like the proper score album much better, when the themes and ideas can play off of each other

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I agree. Some of the ideas are quite cool and there are 5 minute streches in those tracks that flow really well, very Vangelis-like. But the whole thing as a pure listening experience is not the best. But some cool ideas and concepts throughout

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

Listening to the sketchbook now.  The vocals in the "Song of the Sisters" track are straight out his his Electro material from TASM2.

 

All that stuff sort of started in Angels and Demons anyway. Before he moved away from the liturgical quality and went into straight out electro-acoustic chant-screaming. But this bit sounds like Dark Phoenix regurgitated with another language instead of appropriated konnakol (which rubbed me the wrong way in DP).

 

On the second track now. Will share thoughts later.

 

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

I finished the album, its got good ideas occasionally but it's not consistently engaging for its 102 minutes.  And that's all it is, a collection of ideas, there's no narrative.  The tracks could have been presented in any order really.  I expect to like the proper score album much better, when the themes and ideas can play off of each other

 

Yea, I expect you'll hear that kind of form in the actual OST. The whole point of his sketchbooks is just presenting his pre-film suites, where he's just exploring and building on ideas.

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2 minutes ago, KK said:

The whole point of his sketchbooks is just presenting his pre-film suites, where he's just exploring and building on ideas.

 

I know

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I mean he does not seem to be shy about handing out his suites/sketches out to the world at least.

Also AMS2 is not what I had in mind when I heard this music. But I did always like that movie's score, so I welcome it.

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I'm now on The Shortening of the Way, and it sounds like a lost, Middle-East inspired Pink Floyd album. Which is not a problem, of course.

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

I'm now on The Shortening of the Way, and it sounds like a lost, Middle-East inspired Pink Floyd album. Which is not a problem, of course.

 

I am LOVING this track. 

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Yeah, it's a good track.

 

Actually I liked pretty much every track until the last 2 or 3. Then things got REALLY weird and creepy.

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I will admit the 2 tracks after Pauls Dream didnt stick with me.

I do like the last 2 tracks again though because they at least have some energy

Strange bizarre energy.

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There's more than a little Pink Floyd in here isn't there? Parts of Mind-killer sound like On the Run from Dark Side of the Moon.

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6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, it's a good track.

 

Actually I liked pretty much every track until the last 2 or 3. Then things got REALLY weird and creepy.

 

I agree. My favorite is "House Atreides" and I thought the ideas in "Song of the Sisters" and "I See You In My Dream" are very interesting. But the last couple of tracks in the album I didn't care for. I am still very intrigue by what the actual score sounds like. 

 

If you read the reviews, the descriptions of the score are all over the place: It is a nod to his Nolan scores, propulsive and melodic, droning and pulsing, orchestral, more BRAAAM, lack of BRAAM...

 

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Yes, the sketches thing is pretty good. I like it. But I still keep my expectations in check untill I've heard the "real deal". Zimmer has posted a few Facebook posts about the Venice premiere (walking the red carpet, hanging out with Chalamet). My colleagues are there at the moment, curious to know what they think. But I'll refrain from reading much about it untill I've seen it myself. Only 9 more days to go.

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Listened to a few bits - it largely sounds to me like a sketchbook of ideas from various scores of his from the last decades or so, with some very strange vocal effects everywhere. There are some very occasional interesting ideas here and there, but they're otherwise buried in the usual Zimmer pounding.

 

3 hours ago, Thor said:

Yes, the sketches thing is pretty good. I like it. But I still keep my expectations in check untill I've heard the "real deal".

 

Surely this is all you need? :P

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The impression I got from listening to this does not yield much hope this score will standout like some of Zimmer's past scores have - or even sit among the best scores of the last decade. This is basically Gladiator in Space.

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It's ok. A bit of Pink Floyd, a bit of Gladiatorian wailing, a good chunk of Angels & Demons repurposed. I had hoped - on this occasion - for more of his Ofra Haza-tinged Prince of Egypt stuff (a desert is desert, after all), but this remains rather vague during the course of 70 minutes. 

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Really loving "Moon Over Caladan." I love the many different ways Zimmer express the desert, enlightenment, brutality, alien etc. 

 

Still...the real product can either fall flat or be very good. The sketchbook doesn't definitively leads me to believe one way or another. 

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11 hours ago, publicist said:

It's ok. A bit of Pink Floyd, a bit of Gladiatorian wailing, a good chunk of Angels & Demons repurposed. I had hoped - on this occasion - for more of his Ofra Haza-tinged Prince of Egypt stuff (a desert is desert, after all), but this remains rather vague during the course of 70 minutes. 

100

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11 hours ago, publicist said:

It's ok. A bit of Pink Floyd, a bit of Gladiatorian wailing, a good chunk of Angels & Demons repurposed. I had hoped - on this occasion - for more of his Ofra Haza-tinged Prince of Egypt stuff (a desert is desert, after all), but this remains rather vague during the course of 70 minutes. 

 

Which in a lot of places is exactly what I was looking for. We'll see how it fits into the film.

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I like much more Toto's Dune... 

On 9/3/2021 at 8:03 PM, Edmilson said:

I'm listening to the sketchbook right now.

 

I have a theory about these albums: they're precisely what Zimmer writes when he's working on a movie. I mean, he writes a lot of music inspired by the movie, then asks his assistants to fit what he wrote into the movie. 

 

So, the actual film cues are arrangements done by his assistants of the material he wrote.

 

I'm not sure if this is true and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of this and he actually writing the score cues (with a little help from his friends ;) )

 

Yes, after many years I have the same impression. He writes a suite with the themes and ideas and the assitants do the rest, in this case there's a lot of material and reminds me more of the Xperiments album from Dark Phoenix (that was done with the other composers aswell...)

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I'm still very interested in this movie but that music does nothing for me.

 

I realize the amount of work and craft that must go into producing this score and so I want to emphasize that my next sentance isn't a way of saying this work is cheap or simplistic. I can't help myself thinking it sounds like a mix of "True Strike" from ProjectSam, "Gravity" from heaviocity and some real recorded vocals added.

 

I guess I'm tired of sound-design scores. I'm not specifically asking for a John Williams orchestral score. I would just like more thematic ideas. Now, I know it's not the actual score so I'll patiently wait. In fact I think there are good things in here! I hope these ideas are more fleshed-out in the score. But for now, this one is like dunkirk or DP for me.

 

EDIT: In fact, I think my disapointment comes from the nature of the project. I was envisioning big broad thematic ideas for such an epic movie. What we have right now is a mood-score. Might very well be working like a charm in the movie. I'd hapilly change my mind if it does :)

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Even before the release of the sketchbook I was already expecting a sound design-y score. This just seems to be Villeneuve's preference, given his collaborations with the late Johánn Johánnssonn and then with Zimmer and Wallfisch on Blade Runner 2049. 

 

Sure, I'd be happy with an epic orchestral score a la Gladiator or the The Prince of Egypt, but I never thought Zimmer was going to do that.

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I must admit I love atmospheric scores, it's something different.

 

I understand it surely must be "easier" to adjust atmospheric compositions to fit the first from the last edit of a modern movie...

 

I don't think I'll become a "Dune" fan with this movie, but I'll see it as soon as we will be able to rent it.

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Jeez, it was over 100 minutes long, there was so much musical zero-information i just checked in and out. I hope the score album is curated with more care. 

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Honestly outside of the opening, ending and that one major track.. I dont remember much of the Toto Dune soundtrack.

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On 9/3/2021 at 11:03 AM, Edmilson said:

I have a theory about these albums: they're precisely what Zimmer writes when he's working on a movie. I mean, he writes a lot of music inspired by the movie, then asks his assistants to fit what he wrote into the movie. 

 

So, the actual film cues are arrangements done by his assistants of the material he wrote.

 

I'm not sure if this is true and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of this and he actually writing the score cues (with a little help from his friends ;) )


I do believe both are true (that there are projects where the bulk of the work is handled by others, with there being key ones where he's intricately involved in the whole process). It's just that with the lack of discussion from anyone actually involved, even alleged second hand accounts mean little if the official credits seem to paint a certain picture. Zimmer and co. taking turns on each cue sounds plausible to me, but I suppose that just leads to more confusion for those who think it's all noise anyway. What are ya gonna do?

As for the suites themselves, it's hard to tell if even those are HZ solo a lot of the time anymore, given the tiny bits of info we get. Xperiments only has one suite that is credited to just Hans (with MoS being a similar deal), and there's suggestions over other contributors being part of the driving force in key themes on other projects (though these tend to be ones that already advertise themselves as a group effort to begin with). WW84 only took months for the cue credits to show up (and we already know one of them is a suite), so who knows if the Sketchbook there is a similar deal.

 

Though as for Dune, it seems the only actual credit here is on the last track, with contributions from Tangerine Dream's Klaus Schulze. So unless this was merely as much leeway as WB were willing to give Zimmer (since I suspect WW84's credits were only delayed for awards reasons), then this likely is the most HZ has done suites on his own in quite a bit.

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The Sketchbook is complete Hans (except the last one with Schulze)

 

01 - Song Of The Sisters (16:25)
Hans Zimmer

02 - I See You In My Dreams (18:25)
Hans Zimmer

03 - House Atreides (13:54)

Hans Zimmer
04 - The Shortening Of The Way (11:14)

Hans Zimmer
05 - Paul's Dream (7:03)

Hans Zimmer
06 - Moon Over Caladan (8:34)

Hans Zimmer
07 - Shai-Hulud (9:47)

Hans Zimmer
08 - Mind-Killer (11:11)

Hans Zimmer
09 - Grains Of Sand (5:12)
Hans Zimmer, Klaus Schulze

-----

The complete score is 61 cues, 2 by Hans (+ one of suites in the End Credits (Pauls Dream) and the co-credited Schulze one) and 22 with Fleming, 15 with Kawczynski, 15 with Mazzaro, 4 with Doar & 1 with Benyamin.

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5 hours ago, Mephariel said:

According to a RCP insider, it usually works like this:

1. Zimmer writes the suites and themes (WW and Dune sketchbook) 

2. With cue by cue scoring, Zimmer works during a certain part of the day and then one of his assistant takes over when Zimmer retires for the day/night and then he returns to see what has been done and make corrections. 

 

Good heavens, he sounds like da Vinci!

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5 hours ago, Mephariel said:

 

According to a RCP insider, it usually works like this:

1. Zimmer writes the suites and themes (WW and Dune sketchbook) 

2. With cue by cue scoring, Zimmer works during a certain part of the day and then one of his assistant takes over when Zimmer retires for the day/night and then he returns to see what has been done and make corrections. 

 

That sounds fine to me. And with the amount of projects his name is on that sounds more involved than what some have theorized. I imagine that’s how most composers have to work today.

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14 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Good heavens, he sounds like da Vinci!

Reneissance Masters in general, yeah, kind of! If only Hans was Verrocchio and Powell was Leonardo :P

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On 9/7/2021 at 5:02 AM, HunterTech said:

... from Tangerine Dream's Klaus Schulze. 

 

He was their drummer for a very short period in 1969. He's much more know for his very long career as an electronic music solo artist than he was for his brief period with Tangerine Dream. Sorry, I felt I needed to say that.

 

 

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I was just reposting someone's words there, since a different person would've already made the mistake of thinking he was a member of Kraftwerk. I certainly have heard of the guy (and likely did try hearing an album of his once), but I unfortunately am not super well versed in my electronic music history.

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On 9/3/2021 at 2:03 PM, Edmilson said:

I'm listening to the sketchbook right now.

 

I have a theory about these albums: they're precisely what Zimmer writes when he's working on a movie. I mean, he writes a lot of music inspired by the movie, then asks his assistants to fit what he wrote into the movie. 

 

So, the actual film cues are arrangements done by his assistants of the material he wrote.

 

I'm not sure if this is true and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of this and he actually writing the score cues (with a little help from his friends ;) )

 

Great insight. I think this makes a lot of sense. And with Hans' ego this seems like the perfect picture.

 

Ultimately actually writing the individual cues is painstaking. It has to be done over and over again. Fitting to various things on screen. Getting notes,  making updates. Orchestrating. Timing. When to come in. When to fade out. How to be heard over the VFX. It is a tawdry business. 

 

But guess what - it at its fundamental core is the act of scoring a film. Scoring is different from composing.

 

Composing is the sexy bit. You get to have conversations with the director and studio heads and the talent. You get to write long suites without interruption or constraints. All this is extremely pleasurable to do. The actual cue by cue scoring is the painful part which Hans then delegates to the minions.

 

So Hans has become a brand on to himself - he does the publicity, reaps the rewards, and composes some upfront suites, while the minions do the hard work. 

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3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

 

 

Great insight. I think this makes a lot of sense. And with Hans' ego this seems like the perfect picture.

 

Ultimately actually writing the individual cues is painstaking. It has to be done over and over again. Fitting to various things on screen. Getting notes,  making updates. Orchestrating. Timing. When to come in. When to fade out. How to be heard over the VFX. It is a tawdry business. 

 

But guess what - it at its fundamental core is the act of scoring a film. Scoring is different from composing.

 

Composing is the sexy bit. You get to have conversations with the director and studio heads and the talent. You get to write long suites without interruption or constraints. All this is extremely pleasurable to do. The actual cue by cue scoring is the painful part which Hans then delegates to the minions.

 

So Hans has become a brand on to himself - he does the publicity, reaps the rewards, and composes some upfront suites, while the minions do the hard work. 

 

Except that is not true, as I stated above. Hans and his assistance work together on cues. It is also known that the opening of Rush was scored with Hans and Ron Howard in the room. And if Hans is a brand, so is Beltrami and Giacchino and Tyler. Not sure if any composer in Hollywood today ISN'T a brand. Hans Zimmer is just the most successful brand.

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

He's the evilest.

 

Oh I'm sure you're not using that word correctly.

 

Actually, I don't think I've heard anyone (directors, other composers, janitors, fans who have met him) say anything bad about him.

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