So Ridley Scott is directing a Gladiator sequel...

[The Train Station 8,871]

Gladiator was the reference quality DVD of its time. It still holds up on my Sony Trinitron and even looks good on my 32" 720p LCD TV from 2010. I might give it another spin.

[Pawel P. 739]

12 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

As I said over on FSM:

 

I knew this would cause a ruckus the moment I saw it in the film, but it's all based on historical fact. There were all kinds of exotic, imported features and animals in the gladiator arena, including monkeys and sharks. Naval battles like this were also staged. True, while the display of sharks as something to behold is recorded, there are no records of them being in a battle scene, however. But a neat way to combine the two for dramatic effect. It's not a documentary.

 

I don't deny that they could have brought in some sharks, although there's no clear evidence of that, and it must have been very difficult in those days. I'm more concerned with the way it was presented on screen. And the monkeys just look weird, like something out of a cheap horror movie.

[Thor 8,505]

There's documentation of sharks in the Colloseum, just not as part of a naval battle scene. I thought it was a neat idea that was done tastefully and mostly off-screen.

[filmmusic 2,263]

On 11/11/2024 at 4:31 PM, Thor said:

Did you dig long and hard to find a negative review, Alex? Because most of the critical response is positive so far. I'll be seeing it myself, tomorrow morning.

A film critic here that I trust, gave it one out of five stars. (as I've expected it to be)

Seeing the trailer, I'm not sure I would even watch it for free when it becomes available..

 

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

2 hours ago, Pawel P. said:

And the monkeys just look weird, like something out of a cheap horror movie.

 

Monkeys are supposed to not look like humans.

[The Train Station 8,871]

[FunnyML 111]

Is track 20 on the OST (Now We Are Free) lifted from the first movie or is it a new recording?

[Jay 39,762]

Can listen to the sample on Apple Music and see

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/gladiator-ii-music-from-the-motion-picture/1768326406

[Richard P 4,269]

Listening through the samples now, and two things strike me - it's very atmospheric/drony and has a somewhat trailerized sound in the brass and string ostinatos. Even with Zimmer's style, it feels like his score was trying to be a bit more fitting with the era.

 

7 tracks in, and two of Zimmer's themes have returned - the Now We Are Free melody and the 'Sorrow' theme.

[PrayodiBA 760]

I just listened to the soundtrack.

I always looked forward to HGW’s score, as he HAD similar sensibilities with his close colleague John Powell. 
 

But indeed, he was declining, quality-wise. The last time I was truly in awe with his output is Monkey Kingdom, and that was in 2015!

But I always kept my hopes up, that maybe he could return to form again. I saw that opportunity in Mulan, but it turned to be big disappointment. Then Chicken Run 2, this should have been a great sandbox for HGW to truly succeed, but again, it was very underwhelming. Maybe he could in Gladiator 2, especially considering the hype and early reviews,…

 

….but again, Gladiator 2 is a disappointment. If I can summarize this score, it is “Bourne In Ancient Rome”. This score is full with boring, droning, uninteresting ostinato string. There is no gravitas and a sense of awe.

 

Let’s see what makes this score is such a big disappointment:

 

1. The main action-set piece music. The original “The Battle”, even with its similarities to Gustav Holst’s music, is still truly ‘an icon’ (heck, along with ‘Now We Are Free’, the ‘Battle’ are the ones that characterized Gladiator)

But here, it’s just uninspiring ostinato rhythm (that can be heard in the ‘Overture’ track at the beginning). There is no character! What makes this such a big loss because HGW had proven us before that he could create a stromg “action piece” theme in Kingdom of Heaven. It’s  fool of me to expect him to be able to emulate it again here

 

2. The ‘Rome’/ Empire music. I freaking love the original empire music. There is a certain ‘eerie’ and menacing quality to it, which I hoped HGW could create something new here, especially considering you got 2 eccentric Emperors in this movie (but I have yet to see the movie, mind you). This could be one of the only parts that HGW could create a new theme of. But he didn’t here! 😤

 

 

 

 

[Edmilson 9,134]

I'm deciding if I will listen to HGW's Glad II when I get to 2024 in my Gregson-Williams marathon (currently stuck in 2010, it's hard to find enough time to listen to all of his bootlegs) or if I do it right away.

 

I learned the hard way with Mulan to not expect something as good as Kingdom of Heaven/Narnia from him anymore, but I was hoping at least the Overture was nice. I didn't care for the small tidbits of score I listened so far.

3 minutes ago, PrayodiBA said:

If I can summarize this score, it is “Bourne In Ancient Rome”.

I listened to his Prince of Persia as part of my HGW marathon a few days ago and it was also "Bourne goes to the Middle East". It's nothing new from him to keep writing these modern ostinato-filled scores for epic/fantasy films.

[Thor 8,505]

2 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

But indeed, he was declining, quality-wise. The last time I was truly in awe with his output is Monkey Kingdom, and that was in 2015!

 

THE LAST DUEL (2021) was a fine score, for a problematic film, so you don't have to go back so many years, IMO (wasn't a big fan of MONKEY KINGDOM, but THE MARTIAN from the same year was great). GLAD 2 isn't on the level of any of those two, but it has some good moments. Should be possible to whittle down.

[Richard P 4,269]

Last Duel was good (film was boring - gave up on it quickly) as was The Martian, but little else he's done in recent history has interested me. Chicken Run unfortunately demonstrated for me that while the original and Shrek were fantastic scores, that was more down to Powell.

 

I'll certainly give this its proper dues when it's out tmw, but I've heard quite a bit of meandering, atmospheric underscore in the various clips that doesn't really sound overly exciting.

[Chen G. 4,719]

At least The Last Duel did what in two hours what six hours of Star Wars sequel trilogy failed to do: make the Adam Driver-played villain chew on a knife that's lodged through to the back of his cranium, then hang his half-naked corpse upside down for a spot of hazing and leaving it there to rot. No woosy redemption arc here!

 

Sometimes Chen is just out for blood! 

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

Sometimes?!?

[John Dutton 7,503]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

THE LAST DUEL (2021) was a fine score, for a problematic film

 

What was "problematic" about it? Critics and General Audiences overwhelmingly liked it.

[The Train Station 8,871]

Yeah I reckon the ladies go wild for blokes who try using the same ultra-PC lingo as themselves in their cushy HR office jobs.

[John Dutton 7,503]

Thor's opinions are so untrustworthy. 

[The Train Station 8,871]

I can't trust anyone who rates everything five stars. If everything is great, then nothing is great.

[Trope 831]

Apparently there is a scene in this film worthy of whipping the old techno drum sample out for:

Spoiler

 

 

Add it to the list!

Spoiler

 

 

From my super quick skim through, I have also noticed other HGW samples returning, such as the drum strikes from The Last Duel, the wailing exotic instrument (not sure what it is) from moments in Prince of Persia and Mulan, as well as other processed percussion sounds that have showed up in his previous work. I have also reprises of other Zimmer Gladiator themes, beyond Now We Are Free.

 

Keen to sit down later and listen to this score properly. I'm always hoping Harry hits these big projects out of the park, as I know he has done earlier in his career, but nothing so far has really stood out musically.

[Bilbo 3,872]

On 11/11/2024 at 2:25 PM, A24 said:

 

"Maybe Ridley should retire."

Why would anyone sit through anything associated with Grace Randolph? 

On 13/11/2024 at 8:21 PM, GerateWohl said:

What differs Gladiator from movies like Lawrence of Arabia and Braveheart is the extreme middle finger in direction of historic accuracy of events. Maximus never existed and Comodus didn't die in the Collosseum fighting against a Gladiator. 

Wait… you think Braveheart is in any way historically accurate?

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

It's like a documentary. 

[Bilbo 3,872]

I love Braveheart. But “historically accurate” and enjoy a phrase that could be in any way associated with it. 

[A24 4,603]

 

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's like a documentary. 

 

I wasn't there so I don't know. 

[Quintus 5,468]

I'm afraid I won't ever be able to get past the main character in this looking like he was plucked straight out of Emmerdale.

[The Train Station 8,871]

He's so generic. Can't they find any real movie stars anymore?

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

18 minutes ago, A24 said:

 

 

I wasn't there so I don't know. 

 

Of course you were.

[Thor 8,505]

I’ve listened to the soundtrack a couple of times, and to be honest – I was shocked at how less interesting it was compared to hearing it in the film itself. So the challenge came to whittle it down, should I decide to keep it. I set a minimum duration of 25 minutes, if it was less than that it wouldn’t be worth it. But that became a challenge as well. Still, landed on this, 34 minutes in total of pretty decent stuff, and we’ll just have to see how much I’ll play it, and how long it stays in my digital collection:

 

 

[Bilbo 3,872]

Nope. Not the composer’s intended listening experience. Doesn’t count. 

[Richard P 4,269]

I'm listening properly now, and some of the atmospheric material works a lot better than it did in sample form, but the real problem for me is the action material - it's so spectacularly generic and would just fit in basically any score. Racing strings, brass with not a lot going on emotionally. Shame, because I rather like the first half of track 2. What on earth happened on KoH that didn't here - have Scott's musical sensibilities jumped off a cliff? I blame him more than HGW because Scott is famously anal about music - if he doesn't like it, the composer knows about it.

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

HGW is a genious. He's come up with a template that requires minimal adaptation.

[Davis 3,144]

I’m not interested in seeing this unnecessary sequel anytime soon, but thought I’d give the score a shot. But reading how underwhelming it is frankly I’m losing interest. Whatever happened to HGW? Has he burned out? He used to write very good scores. 

[Richard P 4,269]

I'm rather enjoying the atmospheric (dialogue, I guess) material. It's just the action that sounds like he composed it in 5 minutes.

[Jurassic Shark 13,364]

7 minutes ago, Davis said:

I’m not interested in seeing this unnecessary sequel anytime soon, but thought I’d give the score a shot. But reading how underwhelming it is frankly I’m losing interest. Whatever happened to HGW? Has he burned out? He used to write very good scores. 

 

He probably got kids.

[Davis 3,144]

9 minutes ago, Richard P said:

It's just the action that sounds like he composed it in 5 minutes.

Maybe he was in a hurry, because Ridley had finished his next two films.

[Richard P 4,269]

The other problem is that what I assume is Lucius' theme is really not that impressive - a descending theme/motif that I guess HGW planned to morph into Max's theme at the end, but in doing so make a starting point that has absolutely nowhere near the impact.

 

In fact... themes. Where the heck are they?

 

One other issue I have (I promise I'll have some good things to say once I've finished the score) is that when Max's theme finally appears in one of the last tracks, HGW keeps it in the same rhythm as Lucius' theme and it sounds weird, instead of changing it to match the original.

[Knight of Ren 1,087]

I agree that the action is the most uninteresting aspect of the score, despite some nice passages. I've been enjoying a lot more the ethereal and softer tracks a lot more, and I really like how Zimmer's themes are integrated without becoming just a copy paste of that score. I guess I'll appreciate the score a lot more after hearing it in context and perhaps some other themes will jump out to me, because so far I only noticed Lucius theme as new material.

[Richard P 4,269]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

I’ve listened to the soundtrack a couple of times, and to be honest – I was shocked at how less interesting it was compared to hearing it in the film itself. So the challenge came to whittle it down, should I decide to keep it. I set a minimum duration of 25 minutes, if it was less than that it wouldn’t be worth it. But that became a challenge as well. Still, landed on this, 34 minutes in total of pretty decent stuff, and we’ll just have to see how much I’ll play it, and how long it stays in my digital collection:

 

I ultimately found a bit more than you did - 44 minutes. I lost four tracks from the midsection, and two from earlier in, that just weren't doing anything. Doesn't feel like this score is going to have a huge amount of longevity, so I'll see how much I return to it to determine whether to purchase.

 

Interestingly Zimmer's album from the original is missing an entire half hour from a similar point of the film - there's a massive gap between Barbarian Horde and Am I Not Merciful? both narratively and musically. However, Zimmer's score for that section is way, way better than this material.

 

When Now We Are Free comes in it's such a bizarre shift in tone, and I notice that it's faded in which means that whoever did this album either didn't have access to the standalone recording or couldn't be bothered, and just pulled it from the original album. Does the film end with this?

[Thor 8,505]

4 minutes ago, Richard P said:

When Now We Are Free comes in it's such a bizarre shift in tone, and I notice that it's faded in which means that whoever did this album either didn't have access to the standalone recording or couldn't be bothered, and just pulled it from the original album. Does the film end with this?

 

If memory serves, the end credits start off with that, but then moves into HGW's material. If it had been performed or arranged a different way, I would probably have kept it in, but as you say -- seems to be a straight reuse of the original piece, and then I'd rather just listen to the original. Felt out-of-place here.

[Knight of Ren 1,087]

The Dream Is Lost is a nice album closing track to be honest, and one of the highlights for me. I love how it builds from Lucius theme into Zimmer's main theme in epic fashion, and then fades out and plays that theme again but very subdued and quiet.

[Davis 3,144]

Do we know why Zimmer didn’t write the score for Gladiiator?

[Thor 8,505]

2 minutes ago, Davis said:

Do we know why Zimmer didn’t write the score for Gladiiator?

 

From https://screenrant.com/gladiator-2-movie-hans-zimmer-return-no-why/:

 

“It’s really very simple. I’ve done that world. And I think I did it well. And all I’d do is set myself up for either trying to repeat myself, which I don’t want to do, or getting slaughtered by critics who say you didn’t do it as well as you did the first time. We have a gladiator fight in Dune: Part Two, right? We have a gladiator fight in Gladiator obviously, but they couldn’t be more different!

 

“I liked the idea of moving on and not getting compared to my own work. One way or the other I’d had enough of that, doing three Batman movies or four Pirates [of the Caribbean] movies or four Kung Fu Panda movies. And Gladiator takes a special place in my heart. I think it’s completely undisciplined. It wouldn’t have mattered if I had written the most amazing score, because the music in the first movie sticks in people’s hearts.

 

“I had that experience doing the live[-action] version of The Lion King. I tried to step out of my own vocabulary. Every time I did, it just didn’t work. So all I could do was repeat myself. You owe it to yourself, and to the audience, to try to do new things.”

[crocodile 8,610]

That's fair.

 

Karol

[A24 4,603]

 

I liked this review and now I want to see it just for Denzel. 

[The Train Station 8,871]

I've lost trust in Kermode lately. He mostly seems to like going against the grain just to pwn people he doesn't like. His voice is so whingy, too. And why does the other bloke never say much?

[Richard P 4,269]

When I listened to him on their BBC radio review show years back, he did seem to distinguish himself from many other critics somewhat by... actually liking stuff? Like popcorn and non-arthouse stuff. Plenty of stuff he hates (he held nothing back from Alex Proyas when he did Gods of Egypt) but he looks for stuff to like in big dumb blockbuster movies. I love his reviews of Quantum of Solace and John Carter, which both him and I thought were pieces of crap, but he at least attempts to find something in them, and acknowledges problems that may have led to them not being good.

[Davis 3,144]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

“It’s really very simple. I’ve done that world. And I think I did it well. And all I’d do is set myself up for either trying to repeat myself, which I don’t want to do, or getting slaughtered by critics who say you didn’t do it as well as you did the first time. We have a gladiator fight in Dune: Part Two, right? We have a gladiator fight in Gladiator obviously, but they couldn’t be more different!

He is contradicting himself right there. Not only did he do Dune 2, a sequel - and numerous sequels before that -, but Dune 2 had a gladiator fight, yet he didn’t want to do Gladiator 2, a sequel to one of his biggest successes ever? I’m not buying that.
He did the live-action version of The Lion King, the same film all over again, but he didn’t want to do a sequel to a Ridley Scott film? If he is such a good composer, write a new score and don’t repeat himself.
I think there is another reason why he didn’t do G2. And I think it’s called money.

[The Train Station 8,871]

He's finally being exposed for his lack of talent.

[Thor 8,505]

17 minutes ago, Davis said:

He is contradicting himself right there. Not only did he do Dune 2, a sequel - and numerous sequels before that -, but Dune 2 had a gladiator fight, yet he didn’t want to do Gladiator 2, a sequel to one of his biggest successes ever? I’m not buying that.
He did the live-action version of The Lion King, the same film all over again, but he didn’t want to do a sequel to a Ridley Scott film? If he is such a good composer, write a new score and don’t repeat himself.
I think there is another reason why he didn’t do G2. And I think it’s called money.

 

He acknowledged all of that in the other two paragraps that you left out, and that he had grown tired of it by the time GLADIATOR 2 came about. I see no contradiction.

[Davis 3,144]

Again, he wouldn’t write the score to GLADIATOR because he grew tired of doing sequels like he just did to DUNE, to which he is doing yet ANOTHER sequel?
Sure, no contradiction.