So Ridley Scott is directing a Gladiator sequel...

[Richard P 4,433]

Unless it's a myth spread at the time, he swapped KoH and Madagascar with HGW because Scott asked him to do Kingdom and he didn't want to do another Gladiator-type score, so HGW took it instead. Hence he didn't want to do another one back then either.

 

You really think a major studio is going to refuse to pay Zimmer the big bucks for their huge tentpole sequel? I highly doubt that. Zimmer's at that career stage where he can just decide he doesn't want to do a project.

[Edmilson 9,621]

After Zimmer was supposed to do Kingdom of Heaven and then dropped out of it, choosing to do Madagascar (!) instead, he never worked with Ridley Scott again.

 

So yeah, I do believe there's still some bad blood between the two almost 20 years later, especially when you consider Zimmer was Scott's go-to composer during a huge chunk of the early 2000s.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,188]

Even Ridley Scott knows Hans Zimmer is a fraud.

[Thor 8,849]

I wouldn’t call DUNE sequels in a traditional sense. What are they, like, halfway through adapting the book by now?

[Dunge_Onmaster 23]

Sadly, the score to Gladiator II is nothing more than purely functional background music. It's a shame that this is yet another wasted opportunity for potentially great film music... I just can't understand why they didn't build on Zimmer's solid material or give HGW the chance to write something at least roughly on a par with it. The main problem probably still is the producers and their silly expactations, shying away from any kind of creativity and always wanting the same stereotypes reproduced: in this case, unimaginative ethnic droning plus the occasional percussion automation. Soon AI will takeover this kind of "composing".

[Davis 3,496]

3 hours ago, Richard P said:

Zimmer's at that career stage where he can just decide he doesn't want to do a project.

Yeah, but why accept The Lion King and not GLADIATOR? I tend to agree with @Edmilsonthat Zimmer and Scott has an ongoing beef with one another and Zimmer simply didn't want to work with Scott, or vice versa. Too bad because had Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard returned, they could've created a very good score.

I never liked it when the original composer wouldn't return for the sequel. If a composer creates a musical world, they should be the one to expand it. 

[Jay 40,692]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

I wouldn’t call DUNE sequels in a traditional sense. What are they, like, halfway through adapting the book by now?

 

The two recent movies that came out cover the entire first book.  The third movie that's in development now adapts the second book.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,188]

I can't believe I rushed out to see Dune 2 even though I hated Dune 1. A certain actress I like might have motivated me. I won't fall for that trick again.

[GerateWohl 5,418]

22 hours ago, Dunge_Onmaster said:

It's a shame that this is yet another wasted opportunity for potentially great film music.

That's exactly what I thought when watching the first movie. 

[crocodile 8,808]

51 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

That's exactly what I thought when watching the first movie. 

You know what, it's not that I disagree with you but this movie could have used even a pinch of Zimmer's cheek and arrogance. It really would have helped. I've seen it today and the music makes no impression whatsoever. The film itself, well, let's just say I wasn't entertained.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 13,907]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

That's exactly what I thought when watching the first movie. 

 

The Fall of the Roman Empire isn't that bad. 

[Davis 3,496]

45 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

The Fall of the Roman Empire isn't that bad. 

Rome wasn’t built in a day. Hey hey hey.

[ddddeeee 393]

I liked the movie. Scott does spectacle better than pretty much everyone. Denzel, of course, is tons of fun. Paul Mescal is mescast, but the movie works in spite of that. The score didn't register at all, despite a generous mix.

[Davis 3,496]

7 minutes ago, ddddeeee said:

Paul Miscal is miscast

Fixed.

[Meredith McKay 7,173]

On 15/11/2024 at 2:24 PM, Davis said:

Yeah, but why accept The Lion King and not GLADIATOR? I tend to agree with @Edmilsonthat Zimmer and Scott has an ongoing beef with one another and Zimmer simply didn't want to work with Scott, or vice versa. Too bad because had Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard returned, they could've created a very good score.

I never liked it when the original composer wouldn't return for the sequel. If a composer creates a musical world, they should be the one to expand it. 

That's what happened

[Davis 3,496]

You mean that HGW wrote the first score, too? Or that the second score was written by HZ? 

[Henry Sítrónu 529]

the vocalist in the beginning of the second track sounds very similar to the one in Horner’s Beyond Borders.

 

 

 

[Davis 3,496]

“And I want to say something about [Gladiator 2 composer] Harry Gregson Williams, who started out as my assistant. He was very good friends with both Tony and Ridley Scott. Harry is family for me. He’s a phenomenal composer.

That film is in really good hands. Trust me. Harry and I have spoken about it. He feels the old score barking at his heels a little bit. So he’s on his A game."

– Hans Zimmer

[Trope 1,007]

2 minutes ago, Davis said:

"He’s on his A game."

– Hans Zimmer

 

[Trope 1,007]

Okay, I just finished listening to the Gladiator II OST.

 

As a big HGW fan, it disappoints me enormously to say that this may be one of the weakest scores I've ever heard from the man. It is a completely dull, repetitive, meandering, uninspired affair, which, most shockingly of all coming from HGW, completely failed to engage me emotionally. 

 

I cannot believe I'm saying this about music written by a composer whose output includes some of my favourite film scores, but I am honestly shocked by how poorly composed and orchestrated much of this score is. Endlessly repeated ostinatos, thin-sounding and generic orchestration, static and emotionless harmonic construction... Much of this score sounds like stock library music (and not even top-tier library music at that).

 

HGW's scores for The Last Duel and even Mulan appear like masterpieces compared to Gladiator II. Heck, even some of his less inspired thriller work like Infinite and Equaliser 2 is more musically interesting than this score.

 

I'm happy to go into more musical detail to back up my opinion if other users disagree, and I'm more than willing to listen to the score several more times to see if I've missed some critical element that will unlock its genius, but at the moment I find this to be an unbelievably disappointing work and a massive misfire from HGW, who I had hoped would knock this project out of the park.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,188]

So he phoned it in.

[Trope 1,007]

3 minutes ago, The Train Station said:

So he phoned it in.

To my ears, yes.

[Richard P 4,433]

What I find most surprising is how themeless it is. Apart from Lucius' theme which isn't that great, I can't identify a single other thematic identity.

 

I'm relistening to the section around tracks 11-14 and it's so dull, uninspiring and just... there. Where it does liven up a bit you could take any part of it and drop it into a modern thriller - no attempt has been made to write for the context, and that's before we get to the action material. Leaves me wondering truly what the heck went wrong here - what on earth did Ridley ask him for?

 

40 minutes ago, Trope said:

Much of this score sounds like stock library music (and not even top-tier library music at that).

 

Yes, I listen to a shitload of library music and that's exactly what this sounds like. Someone raided 'Historical Action Volume 1' and 'Drama Drones Volume 13' from a middle of the road library - one that sounds like a real orchestra but has basically no real creative drive behind it. Material that sounds like this is supposed to go in a National Geographic documentary under narration where they just need functional music, fast.

 

Some of the first half of the album is quite good - some interesting material where HGW makes some atmospheres. It's the second half and all of the action that's so mindboggling generic and uninspired. Oh man, Zimmer should've returned for this. Even when he has to score a really silly movie, his material's usually fun.

 

[Quintus 5,522]

I haven't heard a score from the guy since Shrek that made me take notice. That had reasonably decent music with a nice enough main theme, but it was hardly what I'd call great. HGW is just another jobbing low tier composer in an industry where a lack of competition makes him look slightly less average. He was never going to be capable of matching or even paying serviceable tribute to Zimmer's original effort.

[LSH 1,091]

Given it the first spin. It's not spectacular but I don't think it's all bad.

 

The action material is about as generic as it gets but some of the ethnic/vocal moments are quite nice.

[Davis 3,496]

Harry Gregson-Williams composed some great scores such as

- Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas

- Kingdom of Heaven

- The Martian

- The Equalizer (the main theme is badass)

- Chicken Run

- The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

 

He used to be excellent, but he might have burned out. Maybe the projects he got were not to his liking or he simply lost his touch.
Anyway it’s too bad that Zimmer didn’t want to do a sequel to one of his most memorable scores. But the same thing happened when Scott made Kingdom of Heaven and also hired HGW instead of HZ. 

 

 

[Evanus 378]

Didn't expect to hear John Powell's Endurance in this so that was a surprise. I thought the score was pretty good, but not as good as some of his previous scores for Ridley.

[crocodile 8,808]

Yeah, he is credited in the booklet.

 

Karol

[Stark 581]

I believe Zimmer and Ridley had their falling out during Matchstick Men, which Zimmer and co essentially wrote twice.

[Mephariel 509]

1 hour ago, Davis said:

Harry Gregson-Williams has composed some great scores such as

- Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas

- Kingdom of Heaven

- The Martian

- The Equalizer (the main theme is badass)

- Chicken Run

- The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

 

He used to be excellent, but he might have burned out. Maybe the projects he got were not to his liking or he simply lost his touch.
Anyway it’s too bad that Zimmer didn’t want to do a sequel to one of his most memorable scores. But the same thing happened when Scott made Kingdom of Heaven and also hired HGW instead of HZ. 

 

 

 

Burned out might be the right description. Mulan was the red flag for me. HGW should have knocked that score out of the park. And if he was writing like he wrote Sinbad, he would have. But that score had the same issues with Gladiator II: lack of memorable new themes, uninspired action music, and a level of restraint that it shouldn't have. And just like Gladiator II, he was composing under the shadow of a classic score done by a great composer and couldn't even come close to matching the score's might. 

[Richard P 4,433]

It's a shame that it's not like he wrote a really good, solid score that just falls slightly short of Zimmer's score - the two are nowhere near each other's league. There's barely a melody in this score that made me sit up and pay attention, whereas the first score is overflowing with memorable, emotive ideas.

 

His work on the first Narnia score, Chicken Run, Shrek (and to some extend the sequels), The Martian and KoH are absolute A-list material. I find Sinbad a little overkill but the ideas are there. I was similarly unenthused by Mulan - a not very inspiring main theme and fairly generic material.

 

However, an interview he did with Schweiger (I think) during covid times when Mulan came out suggested he was really enthusiastic about the project, and there's no reason to think he phoned in Gladiator II - many composers would dream of doing a film with that canvas. He's capable of way more than this - I generally sit firmly in the camp that believes an underwhelming score is down to the director's musical sensibilities going out the window.

[Davis 3,496]

40 minutes ago, Richard P said:

there's no reason to think he phoned in Gladiator II

Especially since the first one was by Zimmer, his mentor and friend. I don't think HGW didn't take the assignment seriously. Which means that he is simply burned out and can't do better. If this wasn't the sequel to fricking GLADIATOR, it wouldn't be so sad. But getting an opportunity like this and not being able to create a special score is such a waste. 

[Richard P 4,433]

Fair assessment, but the fact that it's in the film indicates Ridley was happy with it.

 

So there are really two possibilities here - HGW isn't finding the inspiration needed any more, or Ridley's musical requests have really lowered.

[Davis 3,496]

I mean Ridley Scott used to work with Jerry Goldsmith and Vangelis. Then with Hans Zimmer. Then with Harry Gregson-Williams. Then with Marc Streitenfeld. Then with Jed Kurzel.

With the exception of Martin Phipps (whose music I'm not too familiar with), his musical taste hasn't really improved over the years. 

 

Funny how Scott never worked with John Williams. The closest they got was The Ladd Company Logo before BLADE RUNNER, hehe. 

[A24 4,673]

17 minutes ago, Davis said:

Funny how Scott never worked with John Williams. The closest they got was The Ladd Company Logo before BLADE RUNNER, hehe. 

 

The first time I saw Blade Runner I thought the logo was actually the very first shot of the movie. It reminded me of MOTHER of Alien.

 

 

In fact, my immediate reaction was: Oh my god, Blade Runner and Alien take place in the same universe! (just kidding - Blade Runner didn't exist in 1979)

[Meredith McKay 7,173]

22 hours ago, Davis said:

You mean that HGW wrote the first score, too? Or that the second score was written by HZ? 

I mean that HGW was part of MV/RCP.

[Davis 3,496]

28 minutes ago, A24 said:

The first time I saw Blade Runner I thought the logo was actually the very first shot of the movie.

It does feel like an integral part of the score and film indeed.
Like how the 20th Century Fox logo and the Star Wars main title theme are connected, the latter being purposefully written in the same key as the Fox fanfare.

[Pieter Boelen 849]

7 hours ago, Davis said:

Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas

Whatever happened to THAT HGW?!?

[Drawgoon 116]

11 hours ago, Davis said:

Anyway it’s too bad that Zimmer didn’t want to do a sequel to one of his most memorable scores.

 

That Lion King remake from the other year didn't turn out remarkable so he probably made the right call.

 

9 hours ago, Davis said:

I don't think HGW didn't take the assignment seriously. Which means that he is simply burned out and can't do better.

 

Before Martian came out some years ago, I thought the same about the overall direction of his career. Looks he simply needed a good, and different movie to get his creative juice flowing.

 

As for Gladiator 2, I would highly doubt he didn't take it seriously enough.

Whether he had the option to take it where he'd have wanted is a different thing.

 

11 hours ago, Davis said:

Harry Gregson-Williams has composed some great scores such as

...

- The Equalizer (the main theme is badass)

...

 

 

Never heard this one. Which track on the OST would this be? The final one?

 

[Trope 1,007]

3 hours ago, Drawgoon said:

Never heard this one. Which track on the OST would this be? The final one?

The final track includes the most "epic" and violent statement of it, but it is also expressed in a variety of tender, intimate settings in the opening track too (and is repeated many times throughout the rest of the score).

[Davis 3,496]

4 hours ago, Drawgoon said:

That Lion King remake from the other year didn't turn out remarkable so he probably made the right call.

Yeah. I think every composer who did the live-action version of an animated film they wrote the score to should’ve declined. But as always, vanity and money won’t let them resist the temptation of repeating themselves for no other real reason. 

[Drawgoon 116]

3 hours ago, Davis said:

Yeah. I think every composer who did the live-action version of an animated film they wrote the score to should’ve declined. But as always, vanity and money won’t let them resist the temptation of repeating themselves for no other real reason. 

 

Actually I think Alan Menken's scores (but not songs) for the live action remakes of those 90s Disney films largely surpassed the qualities of the originals. Particularly in the case of Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. Perhaps the subpar qualities of those remakes themselves is the reason the music is not talked about often?

[Davis 3,496]

Perhaps. But were they so different from the originals?

[LSH 1,091]

Gladiator II takes $87m to break Ridley Scott opening box-office record

[Edmilson 9,621]

31 minutes ago, LSH said:

Gladiator II takes $87m to break Ridley Scott opening box-office record

I saw someone mentioning something interesting in a Box Office website: that only 9 of Ridley Scott's 27 movies so far had turned a profit. I didn't check this on myself but it seems correct.

 

Quote

And for perspective on how bad it's looking, Gladiator II, which hasn't even opened in the U.S. yet, has already outgrossed it with just its overseas opening. And with that kind of start, and a smaller than worried budget of $210M, it actually stands a good chance of breaking even. Which that alone is actually a rarity for Ridley Scott. Only 9 out of 27 of his films have actually turned a profit - Alien, Black Rain, Thelma & Louise, Gladiator, Hannibal, American Gangster, Prometheus, The Counselor and The Martian. You'd wonder how he's still able to work at all, but then, I suppose it's tough to turn down the guy who inspired so much of our modern cinema landscape.

 

[Davis 3,496]

19 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said:

Whatever happened to THAT HGW?!?

Don’t know but I sure miss that guy (and scores like that).

[Gustavo Joseph 46]

The movie is super corny, but tons of fun. 150 minutes goes flying. All the cast is game IMHO, even the CGI monkeys are super fun to watch. Denzel Washington the most valuable player, to nobody's surprise. The score is very good in the movie, will listen in spotify later. 

[LSH 1,091]

I saw it earlier today. It's a good romp, I'll give it that. Super camp in places and Denzel steals every scene he's in. The action set-pieces are spectacular but... brief? I was expecting a bigger, lengthier finale showdown too.

 

Score functions well but is totally soulless. It makes you realise how prominent Zimmer's score was the first film; almost a character in itself. 

[Davis 3,496]

30 minutes ago, LSH said:

Denzel steals every scene he's in.

 

[Pieter Boelen 849]

2 hours ago, Davis said:

Don’t know but I sure miss that guy (and scores like that).

Exactly. 

That one was LEGENDARY! 

I was so excited when HGW was announced for Mulan.

Sinbad HGW could've knocked that one RIGHT out of there park!