Are people rating and judging scores wrong?

[Fabulin 3,511]

.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

People should at least splice their favorite scores into their favorite films, and have a humorous old time. The laziness is inexcusable!

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

5 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

 

To even suggest that composers are releasing albums to make money...

 

How much are his royalty checks, ya think? 

 

Capitalize means taking advantage of, duh.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

22 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Capitalize means taking advantage of, duh.

So you think composers decide whether soundtrack albums are released or not? Not studios? That’s why Balfe released Ghost In The Shell right? To capitalize on album sales?

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Again, I never said anything about sales.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's American. Its all about the sales over there.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Dollar signs. Money!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Again, I never said anything about sales.

So how else does a composer capitalize on releasing an album? It's not even their decision.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

A possible album release is surely covered in the contract that the composer signed.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

A possible album release is surely covered in the contract that the composer signed.

So the reason that certain scores don't have album releases is because the composer didn't put it in their contract?

 

How is something that is a possibility also a certainty? And you still haven't clarified what you mean by capitalizing on an album release non-monetarily.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

I'm just saying I doubt they released the album against Balfe's wishes.

 

If you were a composer and did something you're proud of, wouldn't you want your music to be released?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

41 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm just saying I doubt they released the album against Balfe's wishes.

 

If you were a composer and did something you're proud of, wouldn't you want your music to be released?

 

I can't remember how much you talked about this during the Fallout, but are you saying that you see composers releasing long albums of their scores as an indication they're proud of their work, but upon criticism of the music as heard in said album, that the composer says in defense "Well, the music fit the film, so it did what it needed to do"? And you see this as disingenuous? 

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

12 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

are you saying that you see composers releasing long albums of their scores as an indication they're proud of their work

 

No, that he's happy with Fallout I have from various interviews he's done.

 

12 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

upon criticism of the music as heard in said album, that the composer says in defense "Well, the music fit the film, so it did what it needed to do"? And you see this as disingenuous? 

 

Indeed.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

I've listened to tens-of-thousands of great film tracks made in low budget or VSTi that never earned real money and never were known about. The big names earning $ has nothing to do with their quality over anything in particular, but the redeeming quality of these composers' scores is a byproduct of them being professionally paid, allowing them more time, resources and feedback on how to sell the mainstream sound. It's the major names of the industry that are tightly integrated into another profession other than just musical craft. They're all about responding to expectation. It's similar to today's pop music not being better or worse than anything in particular, the only difference is it makes the commission and is specifically designed to. The more you discover amateur composers, the better off you'll be understanding the real science of the artistic process, even if it's a laboriously sophisticated hobby.

[A24 4,331]

33 minutes ago, Borodin said:

I've listened to tens-of-thousands of great film tracks 

 

That's a figure of speech, right?

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

That figure of speech I meant to imply that many of them are great if not good. Many of them were never scored to films or games either, and it's an arduous task listening through low-quality films or music as part of the process.

[Arpy 4,145]

To go back to @The Original question, most critics and people judging a score do so through an album release. God knows how many Filmtracks reviews have been knocked down a few stars because of CC's disapproval, or ignorance of judging the album presentation over the score in context.

 

I'm not sure how albums are released and to what extent a composer has over their presentation and content etc. but we know it's not as much (mostly) as they'd like. I take this as a sign that album presentations are the least reliable sources to judge a score on. 

 

You can throw around listenability as an issue  but surely a composer is trying to make the score 'listenable' in its context first! 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Does it really matter anymore? I almost never see modern films take advantage of their scores, instead just piling dialogue and loud sound effects on top of it to where you can barely make out any music. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Film as we knew it is dead.

[Fabulin 3,511]

.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

2 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

No-one is ever really gone.

 

Except for all the masters that were stored in the Universal backlot...

[Thor 7,490]

When I write reviews on celluloidtunes.no, I try to say a few things about both the music on its own, and how it works in context (if I've seen the film). I think that's most fair.

 

But I agree with publicist in that once you release the music on album, it can be judged thereafter. Which makes careful album considerations all the more important.

 

If I'm writing about films, it's a different ballgame, of course.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

20 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm just saying I doubt they released the album against Balfe's wishes.

 

If you were a composer and did something you're proud of, wouldn't you want your music to be released?

So Balfe is an idiot for being proud of his work and wanting his fans to have access to it away from the film?

[Ollie 1,059]

I listen to film music the way I would contemporary / classical music. I don’t need to associate it with the images on screen. 

 

I don’t even worry if I ever the see film or not.

[Trent B 337]

Judging by the topic....no it's their own personal preference.  Some may hate a score but I'll actually like it and vice versa.  As I said it's all matter of preference.

 

Edit: When I listen to film scores especially ones I listen to a lot, in my mind I see the scenes when the music is playing IE: "Stealing The Enterprise".

[Caliburn 72]

As a reviewer, I have not rated a single score. First of all, my rating would be personal: my 1 star would be someone else's 5 star and the other way around. A soundtrack like Dunkirk would be horrible for me to rate. I think that the music works in the movie, but the score by itself is just not a pleasant listening experience for me. I just prefer that the readers just read what I have to say about the score, and make up their one mind, if the score is interesting or not.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

1 hour ago, Caliburn said:

As a reviewer, I have not rated a single score.

 

You're not a very prolific reviewer then!

 

[Richard Penna 3,680]

On 6/22/2019 at 6:16 AM, Koray Savas said:

So the reason that certain scores don't have album releases is because the composer didn't put it in their contract?

 

How is something that is a possibility also a certainty? And you still haven't clarified what you mean by capitalizing on an album release non-monetarily.

 

Wow, this is an intricate, all singing all dancing performance here, to try to deflect away from the fact that your buddy wrote a score many people didn't like and won't acknowledge the criticisms of the score when released as music.

[Caliburn 72]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

You're not a very prolific reviewer then!

 

 

There are not many reviewers in the Netherlands, I am good :-) 

 

I also think my opinion about the score counts, not just a random number or a star.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

1 hour ago, Caliburn said:

I also think my opinion about the score counts

 

That's of course the most important! But I think most readers understand that a number rating is subjective.

[A24 4,331]

6 hours ago, Caliburn said:

As a reviewer, I have not rated a single score. First of all, my rating would be personal: my 1 star would be someone else's 5 star and the other way around. A soundtrack like Dunkirk would be horrible for me to rate. I think that the music works in the movie, but the score by itself is just not a pleasant listening experience for me. I just prefer that the readers just read what I have to say about the score, and make up their one mind, if the score is interesting or not.

 

 

***/****

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It clear from my John Williams thread that people are judging score differently. I do not think they are doing it wrong.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:22 AM, Koray Savas said:

So Balfe is an idiot for being proud of his work and wanting his fans to have access to it away from the film?

 

One day he's dismissing all criticism of the score in itself because it's only meant to work in context of the film. The next day an album release is announced and he eagerly defends the music on its own. Don't you see the double standard here?

[Fabulin 3,511]

.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

14 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Wow, this is an intricate, all singing all dancing performance here, to try to deflect away from the fact that your buddy wrote a score many people didn't like and won't acknowledge the criticisms of the score when released as music.

No, I’m trying to clarify his claims. Again, still no answer as to what the hell he meant about capitalizing on an album release non-monetarily. As if Balfe is maliciously taking advantage of consumers somehow. I haven’t even talked about how the score works in the film or stands on its own. And I didn’t know you can call people you’ve never spoke to a buddy. 

 

8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

One day he's dismissing all criticism of the score in itself because it's only meant to work in context of the film. The next day an album release is announced and he eagerly defends the music on its own. Don't you see the double standard here?

Eagerly defends how? Y’all are just assuming that the fact that an album release exists he is contradicting himself and making millions of dollars in the process. Composers do not control album releases or make much money off of them. Plain and simple. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Eagerly defends how? Y’all are just assuming that the fact that an album release exists he is contradicting himself and making millions of dollars in the process. Composers do not control album releases or make much money off of them. Plain and simple. 

 

I read and listened to interviews with Balfe about the score.

 

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

And I didn’t know you can call people you’ve never spoke to a buddy.

 

I believe he's being sarcastic.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

8 hours ago, Fabulin said:

 

 

[Richard Penna 3,680]

9 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Eagerly defends how? Y’all are just assuming that the fact that an album release exists he is contradicting himself and making millions of dollars in the process. Composers do not control album releases or make much money off of them. Plain and simple. 

 

Right... a release that is co-produced by Balfe, from a label producer who routinely respects composer wishes. Definitely no control whatsoever over the album release process there.... (I don't think I ever mentioned money - I see it as an exposure thing)

 

Whatever your reason is for trying to protect the reputation of this score, the double standard is there.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

43 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I don't think I ever mentioned money - I see it as an exposure thing

 

Exactly!

[Caliburn 72]

About Fallout. I did not wanted to review the score, because I did not like it as a stand alone album. I prefer to spend time on scores that I do like. But I also heard the "it works in the movie" argument, so I decided after seeing the movie to review it: 

 

https://soundtrackworld.com/2018/08/mission-impossible-fallout-lorne-balfe/

 

He responded to me on twitter that he likes crazy bongos. So I asked for an interview, which I almost got :-) My invitation for that interview still stands! There is so much to discuss about that score.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I like the bad guy motif in that score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Balfe's got his own motif?

[Caliburn 72]

 

On 6/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, The Original said:

I like the bad guy motif in that score.

 

I couple of notes on a piano is not enough to carry a complete score for me, I am afraid ;-)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah but still it was pretty catchy.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

1 hour ago, The Original said:

Yeah but still it was pretty catchy.

 

Balfe, is that you?

 

On 6/25/2019 at 2:38 PM, Caliburn said:

About Fallout. I did not wanted to review the score, because I did not like it as a stand alone album. I prefer to spend time on scores that I do like. But I also heard the "it works in the movie" argument, so I decided after seeing the movie to review it: 

 

https://soundtrackworld.com/2018/08/mission-impossible-fallout-lorne-balfe/

 

That's a great review! How many stars would you give?

[Caliburn 72]

38 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's a great review! How many stars would you give?

 

More than the Dark Phoenix score that I am reviewing at the moment.

 

(Did I say that out load?)

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:19 AM, Richard Penna said:

Right... a release that is co-produced by Balfe, from a label producer who routinely respects composer wishes. Definitely no control whatsoever over the album release process there.... (I don't think I ever mentioned money - I see it as an exposure thing)

 

Whatever your reason is for trying to protect the reputation of this score, the double standard is there.

My point is that the album would exist whether he wanted it to or not. Film scores to major Hollywood motion pictures get album releases.

 

The reputation of this score is that the director, producers, and fans love it. It’s the small minority of film music fans on two message boards that despise it. I have nothing to protect. Expect the next two films to have his name on them. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Fans? In the review Thor just posted on celluloidtunes.no, it's stated that the user rating on Hans Zimmer's fan site is 2 out of 5. I wouldn't call that love...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I made the distinction between fans and film music fans. The normal movie going public don’t post on film music message boards.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

I don't think film fans that are not film music fans would go to Hans Zimmer's fan site to rate albums.