RomanticStrings 10 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I agree with you, but I think that we must also be aware that calling someone on their opinion is just as damaging. Saying that someone insulted you can be just as offensive as the insult. I know that if someone claimed anything that I said to be an insult, then, though I wouldn't get angry at the person, I would feel as though my opinions were being attacked. If I made a joke, and someone said that that offended a person, I would not say that I was sorry because I wouldn't mean it. I would be a little ashamed that it was taken in a way that I did not intend it, but it was intended as a joke, and a joke is nothing to be ashamed of. I find that the most tolerant people I know have the best "racist" jokes. And we laugh at them, not because their content is true, but because stereotypes are funny, false, but that makes them funny. Stereotypes are only useful in jokes, because we all know that they aren't true in the real world.If someone is insulted by what I say, it was not a mistake on my part. Not that it was intentional, but Stefancos said something, and a few people were offended by it, and I do understand their qualms with the statement, but everyone else took it as a joke. I'm sorry that I keep on arguing (I'm trying to figure out the best way to say what I want without offending people too much, but I do not want to get Ricard angry with me). Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? Ricard, please do not take this as a personal attack on your opinions. I never give up on a philosophical debate.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Guys if you are going to get this upset at something Steef says then you should get used to it. Justin -Still not sure what the heck this thread has become.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I do find that clip funny for several reasons. First, it is a spoof like someone said above, and I love spoofs. And, he is larger than any jedi I've seen before. I'm not making fun of him, but it is a fact that he would have a slightly harder time bouncing around a room than us, but he does it very well, considering the size of the room and the length of the "lightsaber." But we all laughed at Yoda in AOTC. Not because of his small size, but because he was so good considering his small size and old age. We weren't laughing at his appearance, we were laughing at his ability compared to before. He wouldn't even walk down that long hall with to two other guys, he had to float. And he always has a cane. Then, suddenly, he's the jedi master. That is funny. This boy is having fun, I think, and that is what is important. I don't think anyless of him becauseof his size. Like stated above, most of us wouldn't videotape ourselves doing those moves. We don't have enough self-esteem for that. He does, and that is great.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 If someone is insulted by what I say, it was not a mistake on my part. Not that it was intentional, but Stefancos said something, and a few people were offended by it, and I do understand their qualms with the statement, but everyone else took it as a joke. I'm sorry that I keep on arguing (I'm trying to figure out the best way to say what I want without offending people too much, but I do not want to get Ricard angry with me). Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? Ricard, please do not take this as a personal attack on your opinions. I never give up on a philosophical debate.~ConorHmmm....you raise some interesting points, Conor, some of which i nearly agree with.I almost felt like discussing them with you, but I remembered some of your statements regarding certain ethnic groups on the FSM forum.I really think YOU should be the last person here to get into a debate about insults.Sorry.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hey, I'm fat and I think its funny.If the kid was funny and uncoordinated as the fat kid, it would be funny.Unfortunately, there is a very real perception that fat people are lazy.Unfortunately, it is sometimes true. Being lazy doesn't mean that fat people aren't smart because they can be. Some fat people can't help their weight, some can. I could if I chose too. I just enjoy eating too much.Anyway thats my 2 cents for what it's worth. Stefan and Ken, the new Laurel and Hardy of the John Williams board.for you young folk, Laurel and Hardy were comic actors in old Black and White films, any of you ever seen B&W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Unfortunately, there is a very real perception that fat people are lazy.Unfortunately, it is sometimes true. I'm not fat, but i'm really as lazy as hell.Some fat people can't help their weight, some can. I could if I chose too. I just enjoy eating too much.As do I, i just don't gain any weight.Anyway thats my 2 cents for what it's worth. Stefan and Ken, the new Laurel and Hardy of the John Williams board.Oh dear.for you young folk, Laurel and Hardy were comic actors in old Black and White films, any of you ever seen B&W?Wrong, Lauren & Hardy are in color, i've seen it with my own eyes.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 This thread is too bizarre for words.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Yeah, that's what happens when there is no prospect of a new Williams CD anytime soon.I remember the long dry spell in between The Patriot and A.I. Wir Sind Jung (Oh Maria)- Roger Whittaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I agree with youAre you sure? :? but I think that we must also be aware that calling someone on their opinion is just as damaging. It's never as damaging as a personal attack (intentional or unintentional)Saying that someone insulted you can be just as offensive as the insult. Usually that's not the case.I know that if someone claimed anything that I said to be an insult, then, though I wouldn't get angry at the person, I would feel as though my opinions were being attacked. "Attacking" (or, much better, disagreeing) with someone's opinion doesn't equal attacking the person who has the opinion.If I made a joke, and someone said that that offended a person, I would not say that I was sorry because I wouldn't mean it. Which means that you still have a lot to learn about life.a joke is nothing to be ashamed of. Not if the jocker is so ignorant that he's not aware that his "jokes" can be very harmful. Ignorants never feel ashamed of their mistakes.I find that the most tolerant people I know have the best "racist" jokes. I'm sorry, but I don't think you really know the meaning of the word "tolerance" Stereotypes are only useful in jokes, because we all know that they aren't true in the real world.Unfortunately not everyone is aware of that, including many people that you might consider "respectable" or "reliable".If someone is insulted by what I say, it was not a mistake on my part.Yes, it can be a mistake if the person feels insulted because you attacked his appearance or condition (third time I have to post this, BTW)I'm sorry that I keep on arguing (I'm trying to figure out the best way to say what I want without offending people too much, but I do not want to get Ricard angry with me). I'm not angry with you, I just thing you're too young to know what you're talking about. Ricard, please do not take this as a personal attack on your opinions.I wouldn't mind if that was the case. I say for the FOURTH time that it's the opinions ON THE PERSON which can be an insult.I never give up on a philosophical debate.This is not a philosophical debate. And if you want to discuss endlessly because you think you're the owner of the truth, please do so with your 16 year old friends. I don't have time for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Analysing other people's post can come off badly as well. Sorry to say this.- Marc, who will try to stay on the sidelines of this as much as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlam 0 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Mmmm - I feel sorry for that kid , all over the net... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Analysing other people's post can come off badly as well. Sorry to say this.That's exactly what Conor did in the first place, even if he wasn't originally involved in the discussion. And regarding my own involvement, don't worry, this will be my last "analysis" of any post. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Why Ricard? I really hope it's because you don't have the time to continue doing so, because I didn't see anything wrong with your "analysing" post, nor do I see any sense in quitting your style of posting all of a sudden.-Ross, who usually never expects to understand why other people do half the things they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hmmm....you raise some interesting points, Conor, some of which i nearly agree with.I almost felt like discussing them with you, but I remembered some of your statements regarding certain ethnic groups on the FSM forum.I really think YOU should be the last person here to get into a debate about insults.Sorry.Stefancos- I have no clue about what to which you are referring. I don't ever remember saying anything about ethnicity, and I don't remember being called upon it.I think that attacking (or disagreeing) an opinion is the same as attacking a person verbally. In fact, any disagreement with a person has to be about the opinion of that person or a fact. What else would there be to attack?What makes a joke harmful? The feelings of the insulted person. So why is it that the "insultor" must be ashamed, when one or two people felt the "insult" was an insult, and everyone else understood it's true intention as a joke. It is all opinion, and no one should EVER be ashamed of their opinions, no matter how extreme. We can oppose them, yes, and try our hardest to change that opinion, but we must respect that they believe their opinions. We can really only try to show them why our opinions are right, and that is all opinion, too. I will always try to get my opinion to be the accepted one, which is why I keep on debating, but I realize that some will not agree with me, but that doesn't take away my right to continue respectfully arguing. I respect that others hold other opinions, but they must respect that I hold my own. They can, of course, try to change mine, and only time can tell who comes out "victorious."~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 its not about victories Conor, but it is obvious that your youth hinders your arguements.It is possible to attack an opinion without attacking the individual, and no we do not have to respect others opinions because they believe them. The world doesn't work that way.All that said, for the most part we here at the MB have been usually civil, though almost each one of us has lacked civility at times. I try to attack the opinion rather than the person, but I haven't always succeeded. I have no doubt that my friend Stefan simply spoke out of turn and never intended to upset Big Ken, who I am pleased to see back by the way. Stefan is actually a very nice person, at least as best as I can tell through the internet. He's almost "lovable". By the way that is an example of carefully chose words designed to sting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Conor, i just send you a private message with the FSM post i was referring to, so you knpow what i'm talking about.If you want to discuss that issue any further with me, please do so via the PM function.Stefancos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishCal24 0 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 What makes a joke harmful? The feelings of the insulted person. So why is it that the "insultor" must be ashamed, when one or two people felt the "insult" was an insult, and everyone else understood it's true intention as a joke. It is all opinion, and no one should EVER be ashamed of their opinions, no matter how extreme. We can oppose them, yes, and try our hardest to change that opinion, but we must respect that they believe their opinions. We can really only try to show them why our opinions are right, and that is all opinion, too. I will always try to get my opinion to be the accepted one, which is why I keep on debating, but I realize that some will not agree with me, but that doesn't take away my right to continue respectfully arguing. I respect that others hold other opinions, but they must respect that I hold my own. They can, of course, try to change mine, and only time can tell who comes out "victorious."~ConorThat's quite the moral vacuum you've developed there, Conor. You'd make a fine defence attorney (my sincere apologies to any attorneys that visit the board). You see, Conor, how I used that line to illustrate my point? It is an inflammatory remark based on a derogatory stereotype. Even in the form of a joke, its original purpose is to insult an individual or group, which in turn further perpetuates a prejudice. Can you not understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Did you intend to insult me?~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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