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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Score Predictions


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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Mid Year Score Predictions  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Has John already completed a batch of recording sessions?

  2. 2. Which new characters has John written a theme for?

    • Jannah (Naomi Ackie)
    • Zorri Bliss (Keri Russell)
    • Allegiant General Pryde (Richard E. Grant)
    • The Knights of Ren
    • Klaud (the slug creature)
    • D-O (BB8's new companion)
    • Something else (specify in the comments)
  3. 3. Which existing characters receive a new theme?

    • Rey
    • Kylo Ren
    • Lando Calrissian
    • The First Order
    • Finn
    • Someone else (specify in the comments)
  4. 4. What is the score's 'signature' new theme?

    • Rey/Kylo Ren duality/showdown theme (ala Battle of the Heroes)
    • Rey's Destiny/family discovery type theme (ala Window to the Past)
    • Kylo Ren's long-anticipated march
    • A stirring 'uniting the galaxy' theme about the Resistance rallying planets to fight the First Order
    • Just a new character theme; the score won't have any 'nebulous' themes (ala Anakin's Betrayal)
    • Something else (specify in the comments)
  5. 5. How long will the complete score be?

    • Far shorter than either TFA (175 minutes) or TLJ (185 minutes) due to the compressed production schedule; a 'normal' 2 hours
    • About the same as TFA and TLJ (3 hours)
    • Far longer than the previous two scores, due to extensive JJ revisions (200+ minutes)
  6. 6. What microphone setup will Murphy use for his recording?

    • Something dry and harsh, like The Force Awakens
    • Something wet and warm, like The Last Jedi
    • Something in between
  7. 7. Which noteworthy theme DOES NOT return?

    • Poe's Theme
    • Rose's Theme
    • Han Solo and the Princess
    • Kylo Ren's B or C Theme
  8. 8. Does John or his music have any form of diegetic cameo in the film, even as an easter egg?

  9. 9. Which (relatively unused) theme/idea from the previous trilogies makes a return?

    • Lando's Palace (ESB)
    • Emperor's Theme (ROTJ)
    • Duel of the Fates (TPM)
    • Across the Stars (AOTC)
    • The Asteroid Field (ESB)
    • The Imperial March (ESB)
    • Lament/Immolation Scene (ROTS)
    • Into the Trap (ROTJ)
    • Through the Flames (ROTJ)
    • The Dark Side Beckons (ROTJ)
    • The Legend of Darth Plagueis (Sith motif from ROTS)
  10. 10. Will the score feature choral elements?

    • Yes, prequel-esque choir for the epic climax
    • Yes, but only in short, select moments (like Finn's Attempted Sacrifice)
    • No

This poll is closed to new votes


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19 hours ago, Balahkay said:

My hope is that the new themes outweigh the old themes, much like TFA.  As much as I love the score to TLJ, I feel there were far too many instances of the old themes particularly the Force theme

 

Yes and no.

 

On the one hand, I absolutely agree with regards to the "best hits" aspect of The Last Jedi, and especially the trivialization of The Force Theme. Its ironic that The Force Awakens, the most self-referential of the films, got one of the most fresh scores, relying squarely on new themes, with just enough of the old material sprinkled in there.

 

However, by its very nature, the concluding chapter may require more repitition. We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

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I feel TLJ’s references to old themes aren’t as problematic when listening to the full, isolated score. I just don’t get why nearly all of the force theme statements had to make it to the OST album.

 

I do love how consistent Williams is in the use of his themes and leitmotivs in both TFA and TLJ, though. As a result, this might just become the most cohesive trilogy of all, musically speaking.

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16 minutes ago, Remco said:

I do love how consistent Williams is in the use of his themes and leitmotivs in both TFA and TLJ

 

By which you mean, the lack of thematic headscratchers like Leia's Theme for Ben's death?

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He writes fantastic religioso type music. Makes the collapse of Edgardo Mortara that much more disheartening; that was a fantastic missed opportunity for Williams. Alas!

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My dream would be to hear him really digging into “Dark Side Beckons” territory for entire cues. Revenge of the Sith has all that dark “chorus from hell” type stuff so it’d be great to get a score just as big in a “heavenly” mode. 

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At least we know the signs to look for this time around, whether choir is involved. Several of the performers started adding the film to their imdb profile on TLJ. 

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It is a Williams' SW score, so I will enjoy it regardless of the approach he ends up taking.  That being said, I think this score will be big, emotional, and action-packed.  We could be in for a real treat. 

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On July 3, 2019 at 9:23 AM, crumbs said:

That's not to say I don't think his more scene-specific approach wasn't admirable in ROTS (the score is brimming with so many new ideas you barely get the chance to appreciate one before it moves on to the next -- from Anakin's Dark Deeds to News of the Attack to It Can't Be), rather than being slavish to his thematic glossary. But I actually think he strikes a better balance in The Last Jedi where he cleverly integrates the existing themes around the new dramatic material, like the Imperial March cadence in The Spark, or the sheer power of Kylo Ren's A Theme as Luke's trick is revealed in The Last Jedi, building to that spectacular closing fanfare (which is athematic). There's also lots of fun little one-and-done musical ideas, like the fanfare for the Dreadnought (who didn't think this was the long-awaited First Order theme when they first saw the film), and the giant laser during the Battle of Crait.

Oh yeah! Revenge of the Sith probably could've been crafted a lot differently, perhaps even better than what we got, but what we did get has probably the most awesome athematic material in the whole franchise! It's very different as far as Star Wars goes, and that's why I love it so much. 

 

I'd be pleased if Wiliams can strike a balance between a good deal of returning themes from the original trilogy in necessary "callback" moments, new renditions of the sequel trilogies themes (take Rey to the next level, a la TLJ's deleted Third Lesson, develop Kylo Ren March, give Poe's theme some love), a handful (at least three?) new themes, and a few cues that are independent from leitmotifs. That'd be the ideal and perfect score to go out on.

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We were saying that about War Horse! I keep thinking back to when it was cool enough just to be getting two new Spielberg scores back-to-back. 

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1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

We were saying that about War Horse! I keep thinking back to when it was cool enough just to be getting two new Spielberg scores back-to-back. 

 I was thinking that Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was JW's last score

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2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

While I agree that Williams not developing Battle of the Heroes throughout the course of the film, like he did with DOTF in TPM during the 3rd act, may seem like a bit of a missed opportunity, there's also something to be said for the power that comes with restraining a new theme and unleashing it in the final moments.

 

Take Jedi Steps at the end of The Force Awakens, for example. Rey's getting in the Falcon, she's heading off to find Luke. Everything is pretty much wrapping up on another Star Wars film. But, in the final minute and a half, Williams, even though he has already provided us with a score rife with new memorable themes, decides to go "Oh, and there's also this..." and just drops an entirely new theme on us. He could have hinted at it earlier in the film throughout the many times the characters mentioned Luke, or he could have just had Rey ascend the steps with some variation on her theme. But instead he chooses to squeeze in one more theme. There is a certain emotional heft (or Force, if you will) that accompanies the piece specifically because you as a listener are completely blindsided by it. It's like Williams giving us a mic drop moment, as the kids say. It's the cherry on top to what was already a fantastic score. I think the same can kinda be said for Battle of the Heroes in ROTS, even though I definitely get where you're coming from. 

Not completely unexpected though since it was pretty much the first bit of music from the film we heard.

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As long as the end credits don't use the Throne Room Theme I'm okay!

 

And the new character who'll receive a new theme is Shmi Skywalker, of course. This movie is all about her ascension!

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It Can’t Be.... News of the Attack... where are you all finding these cues? They’re obviously not on the OST and I’m unaware of any bootlegs of the complete score. 

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A lot of us worked for a decade creating  expanded scores from videogame files that contain clean unreleased music

 

Fan edits  are  about 92% complete but missing a few highlights

Newsof the Attack and It ca';t be can be edited  into complete form

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2 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I've just been re-listening to some of my favourite cues from Revenge of the Sith, as many of them were mentioned earlier. I know this is still The Rise of Skywalker thread, but I'm inspired to go on a little rant.

 

 Man! Probably some of the heaviest consecutive pieces of music in a Star Wars score, each just as awesomely brooding and pathos-emoting as the next. I say this as I listen closely to the It Can't Be cue, which is probably most memorable for it's latter half. I mean, it feels very operatic and grand (why do I hear the chorus of O Fortuna over those repeating notes?), and captures a remarkable feeling, and it is in no way supported by themes. Of course, we get these sorts of tracks from time to time (like some action setpieces), but RotS is so full of them (many of which aren't even action!) that it's astounding. Also, I just made the connection that the final brass lines at the very end of said track were probably temped in The Last Jedi, as the OST track for the movie of the same name ends the exact same way. 

 

And then there's News of the Attack! What a cool little thing Johnny cooked up on the brass there for most of the track! And the strings accompanying a woodwind (couldn't put my finger on which one) that kind of go 'bada dadada'! Oh! 

 

Of course, my praises never cease for the kickass Mustafar music in Moving Things Along. And the violin in Anakin's Dream! D'oh!

 

Anyways, I just hope that we get some of these types of cues for The Rise of Skywalker, ones with musical ideas that are exclusive to that track and that don't otherwise reiterate stuff we've already heard, because boy oh boy can these puppies ever be gems! 

 

In terms of concert pieces, the score warrants so much more than BotH.  It would make for an awesome LTP concert.  Have they done the prequels yet? 

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5 hours ago, Chewy said:

@King Mark How much unreleased music do you think there will be? What are your predictions?

 

It'll be about 100 minutes, like the last two scores. Which means an eye-watering 300 minutes (or 5 hours) of unreleased music for a future Matessino-produced sequel trilogy box set. :)

 

11 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Man! Probably some of the heaviest consecutive pieces of music in a Star Wars score, each just as awesomely brooding and pathos-emoting as the next. I say this as I listen closely to the It Can't Be cue, which is probably most memorable for it's latter half. I mean, it feels very operatic and grand (why do I hear the chorus of O Fortuna over those repeating notes?), and captures a remarkable feeling, and it is in no way supported by themes. Of course, we get these sorts of tracks from time to time (like some action setpieces), but RotS is so full of them (many of which aren't even action!) that it's astounding. Also, I just made the connection that the final brass lines at the very end of said track were probably temped in The Last Jedi, as the OST track for the movie of the same name ends the exact same way. 

 

Great post Jerry, I totally agree. There were definitely some very precise classical music temps in that score. O Fortuna is an interesting one that hadn't occurred to me. Adagio clearly being temped for the Immolation Scene is something others have already pointed out. But I can see Lucas going to town on these chorus-heavy, apocalyptic classical pieces for most of the film, it's so filled with drama and dread.

 

I'd love to think Abrams might follow suit with the TROS temp but it seems temping existing Star Wars music is now the de facto procedure for these films. A shame, because asking a composer to draw inspiration from their own existing work feels somewhat limiting compared to drawing inspiration from classical works by composers he's revered and studied.

 

And just on that specific moment in TLJ:

 

On 3/31/2018 at 9:37 PM, crumbs said:

And that spectacular ending to The Last Jedi feels like it was temped with the big Mustafar fanfare that ends the second act of ROTS.

 

 

 

 

;)

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11 hours ago, Bayesian said:

It Can’t Be.... News of the Attack... where are you all finding these cues? They’re obviously not on the OST and I’m unaware of any bootlegs of the complete score. 

 

Williams' original cue titles have been available since before the movie came out right here:

 

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=2935

 

Later, music recorded for the film that wasn't on the OST began showing up in video games, allowing anyone and their mother to make what are called "fan edits" where pieces of the OST and music ripped from the games (or even ripped from the DVD of the film) are edited together to created an expanded score presentation

 

Then, the sheet music leaked, showing us exactly where any music found was meant to go, and allowing people to create synthetic mockups of any music written but that hadn't appeared yet on the OST, in the film, or in a video game

 

Final result is there are dozens or hundreds of fan edits for ROTS floating all over the internet

 

Sadly, the actual recording sessions have never leaked, all "bootlegs" are just fan edits made from the video game files

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@Bayesian This YouTube channel has an excellent ROTS playlist with heaps of unreleased music, all properly assembled in film order (using clean music sourced from video games). It might even be someone's edit from here.

 

@Jay I think I've already asked you this question but are there any truly 'noteworthy' alternates in the ROTS sheet music, or just some inconsequential alternate bars here or there? I'm assuming there's nothing too meaty, like a radically alternate Immolation Scene for example.

 

I do vaguely recall the film and OST versions of Padme's Ruminations differing, but I'm thinking that was a result of mixing/editing rather than writing.

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ROTS doesn't have any alts, the sheet music leak had all the same cues as that JWFan list

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Hacking it up afterwards is much easier than talking to the composer. Checks out with Lucas' directing style.

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Trent put together a nice editing guide for anyone who wants to go through all the raw video game files and edit everything together themselves

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12ClgTi-vdHl5Ml3i1tUYaMPhghWGTXEJhQT7iIN_klg/edit?usp=sharing

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Thanks for the link Jay! Do we know how many cues are still unreleased i.e. cues that are not featured on video games?

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Just now, Chewy said:

Thanks for the link Jay! Do we know how many cues are still unreleased i.e. cues that are not featured on video games?

 

I was going to ask that!

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Anything that says ROTS German DVD is only in there because those sections aren't in video games so you have to rip from the film itself

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

It'll be about 100 minutes, like the last two scores. Which means an eye-watering 300 minutes (or 5 hours) of unreleased music for a future Matessino-produced sequel trilogy box set. :)

Oh yeah! Never mind eye-watering- the prospect of such a set is mouth-watering :drool:!!! As a note, while I'm super glad for the stupendous Harry Potter Collection and for all of its admirers, a Prequel Trilogy Box Set is my Holy Grail above all else, along side a Matessino OT remaster (with a clean and complete Max Rebo Band track and original source cues from Return of the Jedi) a complete sequel trilogy set, and complete Solo and Rogue One releases (seriously folks, you can poo-poo Rogue One all you want, but the best parts aren't even on the album- my favourite moments are on the FYC or are otherwise unreleased). 

 

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

Great post Jerry, I totally agree. There were definitely some very precise classical music temps in that score. O Fortuna is an interesting one that hadn't occurred to me. Adagio clearly being temped for the Immolation Scene is something others have already pointed out. But I can see Lucas going to town on these chorus-heavy, apocalyptic classical pieces for most of the film, it's so filled with drama and dread.

 

I'd love to think Abrams might follow suit with the TROS temp but it seems temping existing Star Wars music is now the de facto procedure for these films. A shame, because asking a composer to draw inspiration from their own existing work feels somewhat limiting compared to drawing inspiration from classical works by composers he's revered and studied.

Oh yeah, I love to think about temp music, because it's kind of a fun way to make musical connections and expand one's knowledge. Lucas seems to have pretty good coverage on where he gets his temp music from, and it appears to have lead to some really cool moments from Williams. 

 

Also, do we know if Abrams is big on temping his films? Did he use a temp score for The Force Awakens? These may be obvious questions, but I can't recall. And yes, I totally agree. There's so much unexplored territory in classical music, a lot of stuff that brings out the very best in Williams sometimes. 

 

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

And just on that specific moment in TLJ:

Oh yeah, I figured someone had noticed it before! Same goes for the Finn's Confession - High Council Meeting thing. But it's still fun to have these sort of epiphanies personally.

 

And so I find myself pouring over Revenge of the Sith, hoping for some similar ideas with The Rise of Skywalker, while also revisiting some of my favourite cues of the sequel trilogy thus far (I Can Fly Anything, A New Alliance, Holdo's Resolve). I'd really like to see some more of that prequel-esque percussion, like in A New Alliance and Chrome Dome, over a final duel or something. Maybe throw in some muted trumpets and some low string hits, amp it up with a little col ligno. 

 

If you couldn't already tell, it's just about that time that I get super pumped up for these things!!!! Gosh, I can't wait to experience my first new John Williams score on JW Fan. I just barely missed The Last Jedi, and since then we've gotten some pretty cool pieces, but no new scores. What is it now? July? December will be here before we know it! :w00t:You can expect me to be bursting with excitement until then.

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For me, Holdo's Resolve is the most glaring absence from the OST, and it's inclusion on the edited Finale (which should featured new arrangements from Williams, not edited encores!) is hardly compensation. 

 

Also, I realize now that I've been completely misidentifying what I've previously called News of the Attack from Revenge of the Sith. I've actually been thinking of the cue Swimming, Droids, Yoda Farewell. And boy is it good, especially the idea at 1:14, after Yoda's theme.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GKI5Qn0qU6g&list=PLonU6sZXHsfqtt1Uzv_O9-q7qjNr596Qc&index=45&t=0s 

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  • 1 month later...

I'd love that, too, Jerry - especially Poe's theme, which is wonderfully swashbuckling and underused.  I'd love to hear some of the sequels themes in unexpected ways - Rey's theme has been run through the ringer at this point, happy and sad and pensive and urgent, but I'd like more from the others.

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