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Fal J. M. Skywalker

Hans Zimmer's NO TIME TO DIE (2020) - James Bond #25

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20 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

“Worthwhile” is in the eye of the beholder and blah blah blah, but the first 3 Pixars and ST09 are basically why Gia is where he is in Hollywood. I can respect John Carter and Beyond’s Yorktown Theme, and I have a soft spot for Super 8 too. Also Roar! kind of rules.

 

Fun fact: I have a colleague named Roar. He wasn't scored by Giacchino, though.

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5 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

I often wonder why people think they like Zimmer? 

 

Assuming this isn't a joke, what I can guess based on what I've gathered is that HZ's stuff more resembles the music of today than more traditional scores ever did during their time. I in particular listen to a lot of electronic music that structurally and stylistically isn't too far off from what you might hear in an regular RCP effort. A friend has said that if there are any themes now, they more sound rock inspired than they are symphony inspired. Which I can assume is why something like the Avengers theme gets more notice compared to much others in the MCU. As such, it doesn't surprise me that anyone who's more attuned to people like Williams tend to be far more critical of any of the people off the MV factory.

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1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Zimmer certainly contributed to the music culture for better or worse. Giacchino just puts out one bland score after the next and never left his mark with anything.

Some music that could tracked into TV ads.

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46 minutes ago, Fal J. M. Skywalker said:

Some music that could tracked into TV ads.

 

I've seen some sports shows here in Brazil using music from Transformers, The Dark Knight, Inception and The DaVinci Code on reports. For example, on a report about one soccer match, they put some action music from the Nolan Batman movies to add "tension" to whether a player will score a goal or not.

 

There's also some uplifting reports ("this player famous a few years ago, but these days he lives in poverty, now he wants to build a soccer school for kids on his neighborhood") that uses stuff like Arrival to Earth, Journey to the Line and Chevaliers de Sangreal for dramatic effect. The effect should be uplifting, but in reality it just become forced and populist.

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On 1/14/2020 at 7:35 PM, Koray Savas said:

Idiot!

Even I praised up. And what he did in the Ephraim and Dot short was nice.

On 1/14/2020 at 8:51 PM, HunterTech said:

 

Assuming this isn't a joke, what I can guess based on what I've gathered is that HZ's stuff more resembles the music of today than more traditional scores ever did during their time. I in particular listen to a lot of electronic music that structurally and stylistically isn't too far off from what you might hear in an regular RCP effort. A friend has said that if there are any themes now, they more sound rock inspired than they are symphony inspired. Which I can assume is why something like the Avengers theme gets more notice compared to much others in the MCU. As such, it doesn't surprise me that anyone who's more attuned to people like Williams tend to be far more critical of any of the people off the MV factory.

It not a joke. Hz is a bad composer. 

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8 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

It's very Zimmer that the iconic guitar can't be played by a talented, stalwart session musician.  It has to be a celebrity guitarist.

Yup. 

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Jesus, how is it that even who they pick to play the freaking guitar gets harped on? Sure, it's part of the iconic sound, but would any generally competent player really screw it up? Feel however you want, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

That being said, Marr is a pretty predictable pick. Though I can't recall if he did anything else with HZ besides TASM2.

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38 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Pssst, expect to see other names pop up. 

And each one will get a breathless “exclusive” article on NME about the sheer joy of working with “cinema legend” Naked Emperor, err... HZ. None of us here expects any less.🙄

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43 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

 

Pssst, expect to see other names pop up. 

 

Maybe the names of the dozen ghost writers that write the score for Hans as we speak? 

How about announcing them? That'd be a change of pace. 

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Zimmer is not wrong, though. I myself too wished to have my own army of minions to do most of my job for me, while I take the credit.

 

The spreadsheets and reports I have to deliver to my boss would have the following credits:

 

-Spreadsheet created by Me.

-Additional data, research and reporting by Minion A, Minion B and Minion C.

-Spreadsheet produced by Minion D.

-Additional producing by Minion E.

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3 hours ago, publicist said:

Ummmm...Inception?


Actually haven't listened to that one, and don't feel too inclined to after "Time" left me pretty underwhelmed. Though yeah, it probably makes sense he'd be involved with that from the other bits I'd heard.

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Zimmer is not even a composer. He's basically a publicist representing the cabal of minions that will actually create the noise pollution for the film - also sometimes gaslit as a 'musical score'. He will just be the face of it - the charlatan that sells their nonsense to the eagerly awaiting world.

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Just now, TheUlyssesian said:

Zimmer is not even a composer. He's basically a publicist representing the cabal of minions that will actually create the noise pollution for the film - almost sometimes gaslit as a 'musical score'. He will just be the face of it - the charlatan that sells their nonsense to the eagerly awaiting world.

Yup.

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Zimmer is like one of those YouTubers that's making tutorials on how to write "Epic Orchestral Music" in FL Studio. I take one listen and it's just ostinato strings, loud brass, fake choir, and war drums. Zero woodwinds.

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5 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

Maybe the names of the dozen ghost writers that write the score for Hans as we speak? 

How about announcing them? That'd
be a change of pace. 

Hey if you actually bought one of the CDs or saw one of the films you’d know all the names. He credits his collaborators... hence, no ghost writers!

 

Sad!

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Some non-RC composers that used additional composers:

 

James Newton Howard - Blake Neely, Mel Wesson and Chris Bacon (:lol:) contributed to King Kong.

 

Danny Elfman - Paul Mounsey (I think) did some additional music for Age of Ultron, and Captain Marvel composer Pinar Toprak also contributed for Justice League.

 

All these scores have in common that they were rushed jobs, both Elfman and JNH were brought very lately in the game, so they probably needed some help. When they got time, they don't appear to use ghost writers.

 

But that's what I know. If someone has some other information, please come forward.

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4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Some non-RC composers that used additional composers:

 

James Newton Howard - Blake Neely, Mel Wesson and Chris Bacon (:lol:) contributed to King Kong.

 

Danny Elfman - Paul Mounsey (I think) did some additional music for Age of Ultron, and Captain Marvel composer Pinar Toprak also contributed for Justice League.

 

All these scores have in common that they were rushed jobs, both Elfman and JNH were brought very lately in the game, so they probably needed some help. When they got time, they don't appear to use ghost writers.

 

But that's what I know. If someone has some other information, please come forward.

 

According to the Mugglenet forums less than 20 years ago, John Williams didn't write anything for the HP films, it was all the orchestrators' work!

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6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Some non-RC composers that used additional composers:

 

James Newton Howard - Blake Neely, Mel Wesson and Chris Bacon (:lol:) contributed to King Kong.

 

Danny Elfman - Paul Mounsey (I think) did some additional music for Age of Ultron, and Captain Marvel composer Pinar Toprak also contributed for Justice League.

 

All these scores have in common that they were rushed jobs, both Elfman and JNH were brought very lately in the game, so they probably needed some help. When they got time, they don't appear to use ghost writers.

 

But that's what I know. If someone has some other information, please come forward.

Howard, Powell, and H. Gregson-Williams consistently use additional music composers. 

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8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Some non-RC composers that used additional composers:

 

James Newton Howard - Blake Neely, Mel Wesson and Chris Bacon (:lol:) contributed to King Kong.

 

Danny Elfman - Paul Mounsey (I think) did some additional music for Age of Ultron, and Captain Marvel composer Pinar Toprak also contributed for Justice League.

 

All these scores have in common that they were rushed jobs, both Elfman and JNH were brought very lately in the game, so they probably needed some help. When they got time, they don't appear to use ghost writers.

 

But that's what I know. If someone has some other information, please come forward.

There are very few recent JNH/Elfman scores which didn't require additional composers/arrangers. Almost every Elfman score involves Chris Bacon and/or T.J. Lindgren. Almost every James Newton Howard score involves Sven Faulconer.

 

Powell regularly uses three additional composers/arrangers and a little army of orchestrators - there are only a handful of cues on HTTYD3 which only have Powell credited as composer. Christopher Young hires help for his projects nowadays and he doesn't seem to get all that much work.

 

It's the nature of the business these days. Composers cannot keep up with changing edits (and can't really be expected to).

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3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Howard, Powell, and H. Gregson-Williams consistently use additional music composers. 

 

Powell and the Gregson-Williams brothers started their careers at RC/MV, so I didn't really counted them, only people who haven't been associated with it, or associated with them for a short period of time (i.e. JNH on the first two Nolan Bat-movies).

 

1 hour ago, ddddeeee said:

There are very few recent JNH/Elfman scores which didn't require additional composers/arrangers. Almost every Elfman score involves Chris Bacon and/or T.J. Lindgren. Almost every James Newton Howard score involves Sven Faulconer.

 

Powell regularly uses three additional composers/arrangers and a little army of orchestrators - there are only a handful of cues on HTTYD3 which only have Powell credited as composer. Christopher Young hires help for his projects nowadays and he doesn't seem to get all that much work.

 

It's the nature of the business these days. Composers cannot keep up with changing edits (and can't really be expected to).

 

The mess on the post production of TROS seems to corroborrate that by being the exception to the rule. Despite working on the movie for almost an year, JW, an old school composer that still writes with pencil and paper, couldn't help but seeing his score to be utterly botchered on the final cut due to Abrams' indecisiveness and constant edits.

 

So yeah, JNH and Elfman were on complicated productions lately (specially the latter, who was on Ultron, Justice League and Doolittle) and, as you said, couldn't keep up with the constant edits due to pressured directors and desperate, insane studio executives.

 

That said, I don't think you can really compare blockbuster scores by JNH, Desplat, Elfman, Powell, Young, HGW, etc., to Zimmer. Sure, neither of them are probably not guilty of the "sin" of using additional composers, but I don't think that compares to what Zimmer does. 

 

Most of his (or, better yet, "his") scores for DreamWorks kiddie movies are great examples: he is listed as sole composer for stuff like Kung Fu Panda 3 and the Madagascar movies, but almost all of the scoring on these stuff were done by his minions. I guess it's even worse to call Balfe an "additional composer" on KFP 3 as much of the job was done by him and Paul Mounsey.

 

On the other hand, Powell used additional composers on the Dragons movies, but still is his voice shining through and through. You listen to The Hidden World, you know it's a John Powell score; you listen to Kung Fu Panda 3, and, despite Zimmer being credited as solo composer, you know this was done by a team.

 

That's the point, even though people other than Zimmer have their own composers, you know that is still their job. Crimes of Grindelwald, The Hidden World and Justice League are as JNH, Powell and Elfman as it gets.

 

Tbh, it brings me no joy crapping on Zimmer like this. Despite the jokes, I genuinely think he is a hardworking man, and if it wasn't for his late 90s/early 2000s scores (specially The Last Samurai and At World's End), I probably wouldn't be here at JWFan today. 

 

And it's not like almost every single one of his scores are done by committee. It was suggested a while ago that, despite him and Junkie being credited as composers for Batman v Superman, it was Zimmer (and co.) that handled most of the job, while JXL was focusing on Deadpool (in hindsight, it was the right decision, Deadpool got better reviews and outperformed BvS at the domestic box office, lol).

 

What annoys me is seeing Zimmer doing little job on some scores while he focuses on publicity stunts, a situation that is certainly not comparable to other composers.

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That does remind me of something I thought up of while I'd heard a couple of RC scores months ago. A lot of the time, I never actually really get a good feel for what the house style really is. Sure, a lot of them involve similiar techniques and structures, but they never really jump out to me as having been done by a particular vision. Jablonsky's Bayformers series in particular is nothing but copying whatever is popular at the time, and thus there's no real cohesion in-between each installment. Heck, even Zimmer, as much as one can decry his works as being lazily the same for a while, never felt particularly consistent to me. I might like some of their stuff more than most here, but the manufactured nature is one that I have a hard time getting past.

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8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Most of his (or, better yet, "his") scores for DreamWorks kiddie movies are great examples: he is listed as sole composer for stuff like Kung Fu Panda 3 and the Madagascar movies, but almost all of the scoring on these stuff were done by his minions. I guess it's even worse to call Balfe an "additional composer" on KFP 3 as much of the job was done by him and Paul Mounsey.

Zimmer is not the solely credited composer on any of the Madagascar films.

 

8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

What annoys me is seeing Zimmer doing little job on some scores while he focuses on publicity stunts, a situation that is certainly not comparable to other composers.

Zimmer, like all composers, has a publicist. Doing interviews and round tables are part of every film industry career. Do you blame actors for going on press junkets and talk shows? They are there to promote a movie to make money. Composers as successful as Zimmer are no different.

 

And I think people in general don’t understand just how much Zimmer works. Dude practically lives out of his studio. 

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6 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Zimmer is not the solely credited composer on any of the Madagascar films.

 

 

What the fuck are you even talking about? Perhaps you are confusing it with the Panda franchise? I know that these DW movies are generic, but anyway.

 

MADA3.jpg

 

 

madag1.JPG

madag3.JPG

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Regarding Madagascar: I believe Hybrid said that Zimmer had to leave the first one halfway through to focus more on Batman Begins, so the rest was handled by Jim Dooley. And the sequels do have celebrities like will.i.am involved, so it's certainly done by quite a few folks.

I believe it really depends on the project if its indeed being primarily handled by the minions and HZ was just there to give the base ideas. Let's look at 2007 for example. It's pretty likely The Simpsons Movie was a work of the team, as he would've been more heavily focused on At World's End that same year.

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Most of his animated/kiddie movies are done by the minions, with a few exceptions on the beginning of his career: The Lion King, The Prince of Egypt, maaaaayyyybe Spirit... Needless to say, despite minion involvement, TLK and TPoE are infinitely better than Simpsons, Madagascar and other DreamWorks crap he worked on.

 

As for the live action blockbusters, it depends from whether he is inspired by the movie AND has the time to do it, or not. If he's inspired, he'll give everything he has to the movie, even if the result is controversial, with minimal minion involvement (compared to when he doesn't care): Gladiator, Inception, Interstellar, etc. But if he doesn't care that much about the project, he'll write a handful of themes and put the minions to figure out how to put them on the underscore, Pirates 4 being the biggest offender (and I guess most of Sherlock 2 was done by Balfe as well).

 

The same goes for the smaller movies, it depends from whether he is inspired to score that movie (As Good as it Gets) or not (The Dilemma).

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16 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Most of his animated/kiddie movies are done by the minions, with a few exceptions on the beginning of his career: The Lion King, The Prince of Egypt, maaaaayyyybe Spirit... Needless to say, despite minion involvement, TLK and TPoE are infinitely better than Simpsons, Madagascar and other DreamWorks crap he worked on.

 

As for the live action blockbusters, it depends from whether he is inspired by the movie AND has the time to do it, or not. If he's inspired, he'll give everything he has to the movie, even if the result is controversial, with minimal minion involvement (compared to when he doesn't care): Gladiator, Inception, Interstellar, etc. But if he doesn't care that much about the project, he'll write a handful of themes and put the minions to figure out how to put them on the underscore, Pirates 4 being the biggest offender (and I guess most of Sherlock 2 was done by Balfe as well).

 

GladiatorThe Lion King and The Prince of Egypt had loads of people working on the score. And those were all big passion projects for him. His process is just enormously collaborative, like a producer. 

 

But yes, it is true, certain projects only have Zimmer's most cursory involvement, just to leverage his brand on the cover. And you're right, when he's inspired, he manages to change the sound of the industry itself.

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1 minute ago, KK said:

But yes, it is true, certain projects only have Zimmer's most cursory involvement, just to leverage his brand on the cover.

 

It's those projects which he should just relinquish and allow another composer to do the work, like he finally did for Pirates 5 and allowed Zanelli to do it.

 

But instead he writes a theme or 'produces' the score and that gets his name on the album cover rather than whoever actually wrote most of the score.

 

I really like the OST for Angels & Demons (loved the movie too, which helps) but I'm pretty sure one of his minions did some cues and I have no idea which ones. I don't think that's a good thing.

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