Jump to content

Hans Zimmer's NO TIME TO DIE (2021)


Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, KK said:

GladiatorThe Lion King and The Prince of Egypt had loads of people working on the score. And those were all big passion projects for him. His process is just enormously collaborative, like a producer. 

 

 

Yeah, there were other people working on these scores besides him, but you can hear his voice shining through, at least more than on, say, other DreamWorks crappy animations or Pirates 4, which was mostly done by Zanelli too. He was more inspired by the likes of Prince of Egypt and Gladiator than he ever did for a lot of other movies, and I read that Lion King was a very personal score for him, due to the loss of his father when he was a child, much like Simba.

 

14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

But instead he writes a theme or 'produces' the score and that gets his name on the album cover rather than whoever actually wrote most of the score.

 

 

Exactly that. It would be better that if, on the scores he doesn't care that much, the credits would just read "Themes by Hans Zimmer, Score Composed by Lorne Balfe", or whatever. Like the Solo cover, for instance.

 

That said, I don't think the minions are complaining. Balfe stayed on his shadows for years, and now he is finally getting his reward, working on several action blockbusters like Fallout, Gemini Men, etc., and lots of TV shows. Zanelli ghost wrote On Stranger Tides and did additional music for the previous POTC trilogy, and years later he got his own Pirates score that led to him getting the job on Maleficent 2.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 809
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Well this news has confirmed that the time to die is in fact now.

Spinmeister at FSM created a custom cover...  

*Zimmer uses trumpets and guitar*   Zimmer - "I just wanted to do something unique. Something never heard before in a Bond film."

Are we ignoring the fact that there's places like ASCAP and HZ.com that break down more of what each person on the team did? Or does it matter more that he's upfront about it publicly than on websites and resources that only a few will ever bother to look?

About Pirates 4: he had to have been involved enough for him to swear off doing 5, since I hear he had a miserable time on 4. And you can certainly hear it, in just how temp tracked the whole thing basically is. Besides, I think Zanelli only did 5 because he was the only other one involved in all the previous installments, as opposed to doing any more particular legwork in 4. At least his credits there aren't any more than those of 1-3.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

It's those projects which he should just relinquish and allow another composer to do the work, like he finally did for Pirates 5 and allowed Zanelli to do it.

 

But instead he writes a theme or 'produces' the score and that gets his name on the album cover rather than whoever actually wrote most of the score.

 

I really like the OST for Angels & Demons (loved the movie too, which helps) but I'm pretty sure one of his minions did some cues and I have no idea which ones. I don't think that's a good thing.

 

Yea, but I think often the filmmakers/studios want Zimmer's brand on their product. That's what they're paying good money for. 

 

Even Angels and Demons, is primarily a Zimmer score through and through I believe, with additional music provided by the team.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a fan of Angels and Demons, tried listening the complete score a few years ago and disliked it. But it seemed to be more of a team effort than a solo one, with Balfe, Atli Örvarsson, Nick Glennie-Smith and Zanelli contributing to additional music and Mel Wesson with his ambient music designs.

 

The tracklist, according to the HZ fansite:

  1. 160 BPM (6:42) - Hans Zimmer
  2. God Particle (5:20) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Atli Örvarsson, Mel Wesson
  3. Air (9:08) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Atli Örvarsson, Geoff Zanelli, Mel Wesson
  4. Fire (6:51) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
  5. Black Smoke (5:45) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson
  6. Science And Religion (12:27)  -Hans Zimmer
  7. Immolation (3:38) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
  8. Election By Adoration (2:12) - Hans Zimmer, Nick Glennie-Smith
  9. 503 (2:14) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
  10. Bonus Track : H2O (1:51) - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Atli Örvarsson

 

At least the best track on the score, Science and Religion, when Ewan McGregor climbs on a helicopter and detonates a bomb or something, was a Zimmer solo effort.

 

[edit] Just found the bootleg I downloaded ages ago from that place of worship, and here's the cue list for Angels and Demons, with composers credited:

 

1M00 Logos - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Joshua Bell
1M01 Smashing the Ring - Hans Zimmer, Atli Orvarsson, Mel Wesson
1M03/4 CERN - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson
1M04 Langdom At Harvard - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson
1M05 Illuminati - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
1M06 Hunt Them Down and Kill Them - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
1M07 Sistine Chapel - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
2M10 God Particle - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson
2M11 Access Granted - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
2M12 Follow the Path - Hans Zimmer, Atli Orvarsson
2M13 Seal the Doors - Hans Zimmer, Atli Orvarsson
2M14 Mr Grey Taunts the Cardinals - Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
3M15 No Time - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
3M16 Cock Block - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
3M16B Pantheon - Hans Zimmer, Geoff Zanelli
3M17A Wrong - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
3M17B EARTH - Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
3M18 Black Smoke A - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
3M19 AIR - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Atli Orvarsson, Mel Wesson
4M20 Black Smoke B - Hans Zimmer, Geoff Zanelli
4M23/24 Hypoxia - Hans Zimmer, Atli Orvarsson, Mel Wesson
4M25A Black Tongue A - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
5M27 FIRE - Hans Zimmer
5M28A Strauss Eligible - Hans Zimmer, Geoff Zanelli
5M28B Langdon Rescued - Hans Zimmer, Geoff Zanelli
5M29 Cross Rome - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
5M30 WATER - Hans Zimmer, Atli Orvarsson
5M31A Castle Opus v1 - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
5M31B Castle SantAngelo - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson 
6M33 Save Camerlengo - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
6M34 Necropolis - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
6M38 God Save Us - Hans Zimmer
6M41 Election By Adoration - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
7M42 Bad Camerlengo - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
7M43 Immolation - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
7M44 Science and Religon - Hans Zimmer, Nick Glennie-Smith
7M45 Lux Aeterna - Atli Orvarsson
7M46 End Title - Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
160 BPM - Hans Zimmer

 

In other words, Balfe handled most of the score, Orvarsson and Zanelli helped, Glennie-Smith arranged the Chevaliers of Sangreal theme for Joshua Bell's violin for the ending of the movie, Zimmer scored the fire action scene and the Ewan McGregor on helicopter climax, and also did the suite from which the minions drew inspiration for the score. Great job, team!

 

On the other hand, if the bootleg I have from King Arthur is correct, than HZ did most of the job on that movie. Jablonsky, RGW, Blake Neely and James Dooley did a few selected scenes on the first two acts of the movie (alternates to the 1M00 Opening, 2M10 Knights Argue, 3M13 Knights Journey Begins, 3M20 Torture Chamber, 4M30 Guinevere Leads Arthur to Merlin, 5M34 The Ice Battle). The final battle on reel 7 was mostly a team effort, with the exception of a single solo cue by HZ (7M44bv18 Final Battle Part 2). The epilogue (8M48 Aftermath, or, as we know from the OST, Track 10 All of Them) and best track from that score was solo HZ as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

99% of the public doesn't give a fuck if someone credits cues to other composers on hanszimmer.com. CD says "Music by Hans Zimmer", movie credit says "Music by Hans Zimmer". That's it. 

 

Zimmer deliberately takes the spotlight, knowing this fully well. 

 

99.5% of people don't care what a small niche of weirdos on the internet says. 

 

Put "Music by Remote Control Pictures" or "Music by Hans Zimmer's Remote Control Pictures" on the cover.

"Music by Hans Zimmer" is simply a lie, no matter how you spin it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

What the fuck are you even talking about? Perhaps you are confusing it with the Panda franchise? I know that these DW movies are generic, but anyway.

If you actually flip the CD over or bother to watch the film’s credits you would see the track-by-track breakdown. 

36 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

99% of the public doesn't give a fuck if someone credits cues to other composers on hanszimmer.com. CD says "Music by Hans Zimmer", movie credit says "Music by Hans Zimmer". That's it. 

 

Zimmer deliberately takes the spotlight, knowing this fully well. 

 

99.5% of people don't care what a small niche of weirdos on the internet says. 

 

Put "Music by Remote Control Pictures" or "Music by Hans Zimmer's Remote Control Pictures" on the cover.

"Music by Hans Zimmer" is simply a lie, no matter how you spin it. 

See above. You’re wrong as usual. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

If you actually flip the CD over or bother to watch the film’s credits you would see the track-by-track breakdown. 

 

 

Oh, but despite what you thought, I DID went looking for Madagascar's credits, hence why I said previously:

 

Most of his (or, better yet, "his") scores for DreamWorks kiddie movies are great examples: he is listed as sole composer for stuff like Kung Fu Panda 3 and the Madagascar movies, but almost all of the scoring on these stuff were done by his minions. I guess it's even worse to call Balfe an "additional composer" on KFP 3 as much of the job was done by him and Paul Mounsey.

 

You seem, on purpose or not, to be misunderstanding what I said. There's the credit MUSIC BY, which credit the main composer(s), features on the cover of the OST album and on the first part of the end credits, so, the most likely to be seen by moviegoing audiences, and there's the credit ADDITIONAL MUSIC BY, listing the additional composers, that only a very tiny percentage of film score nerds (which by themselves are already a minuscule fraction of the audience) will bother to investigate what it's this and who are these people. 

 

On the Madagascar trilogy and KFP 3, Zimmer was listed under the MUSIC BY credit, and the minions were put under the ADDITIONAL MUSIC BY. That's what I was referring to, he was listed as sole composer, even though he did minimal work besides a few themes.

 

I really see no problem, on Panda 3 for example, putting the music credits such as "Original Themes by Hans Zimmer, Score Composed and Adapted by Lorne Balfe and Paul Mounsey". It wouldn't hurt anyone, and not fool anyone into thinking that he put more work into this than he actually did.

 

And please, don't offend me comparing Madagascar to other scores from Powell, Elfman, etc, these are completly different situations. For these awful DreamWorks kid flicks, he writes a theme or two and the rest of the work is done by the minion army, even though he will be credited as sole composer, while on Powell's case he writes the majority of the score, with his own minions doing minimal adjustments as opposed to a work as big as what Balfe did on Panda 3.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite frankly, would anyone actually give a shit if they were more upfront about who did what? We're talking about people who only seem to care about film music when it's trying to take Marvel down a peg and nothing more. Haven't seen much that would suggest any casual moviegoer could really get into a score besides the most notable pieces for whatever popular film there is. I've seen cases of some bringing the subject up (one instance being an Amazon review asking how much Philip Glass really did Fant4stic), but that's only like once or twice.

 

And once again, it's a heavy case by case basis on whether a score of Zimmer's actually warrants the solo credit on the front. Though I can certainly respect the few times he gives others the spotlight (TASM2, Xperiments).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ll just leave it at this, since the conversation is getting redundant.

 

Composers have publicists, managers, social media teams, etc. They don’t personally choose what interviews to do, in some cases what to even say, or how credits are often listed. Producers want Zimmer, whether he wants to score their films or not. He has publicly said that he has to fight to give his team the credits that they already get. Most of this stuff is handled by studios and rights holders. Cue sheet credits are how composers get paid.

 

People will hate whether everyone is credited or not so I guess nothing really matters. It’s always “minions, factory, lackeys,” which is hugely disrespectful to the musicians that put in a lot of hard work, and indicative that most here don’t really understand how the film industry works behind the scenes. But yeah, just blame it all on Zimmer alone, of course he’s making all these decisions personally just to piss off orchestral diehards. 

 

Good day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe me, if on stuff Zimmer has zero interest on putting a lot of workd, such as Madagascar, Panda 3, Shark Tale, The Dilemma, On Stranger Tides  and, as I stated above, Angels and Demons, etc., the music credits being similar to Solo's (Original Themes by Hans Zimmer, Score Composed by Minion A and Minion B), it would be better for people to understand who exactly is responsible for the score they listen to when they watch these movies, and maybe even better for the minion's careers.

 

Powell got credited for Road to El Dorado and years later he has done Star Wars, several animated blockbusters, his own action franchise and got an Academy Award nomination. 

 

Yesterday I was listening to the bootleg At World's End, and there's some wonderful on the final battle (Maelstrom Parts 1 and 2, Getting the Chest, A Lost Bird, Celebration) that are credited to the unknown minions Tom Gire and John Sponsler, alongside Zimmer. These guys are clearly talented, and who knows if people were more aware of the great music they did on the climax, what could've been their career? Instead, they left RC in 2011 and these days they've mostly vanished.

 

On a score that is personal and inspiring for Zimmer, such as Interstellar, that's okay to put credits as "Music By Hans Zimmer", even with minion involvement. But on scores that are clearly either a team effort, or mostly an effort of a particular minion, I don't agree with the credits being Music By HZ.

 

But then again, what do I know? Hollywood seems a shitty place to work anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

On a score that is personal and inspiring for Zimmer, such as Interstellar, that's okay to put credits as "Music By Hans Zimmer", even with minion involvement. But on scores that are clearly either a team effort, or mostly an effort of a particular minion, I don't agree with the credits being Music By HZ.

 

This is the thing: a project that inspires Zimmer gets his near full attention. Music credit: Music by Hans Zimmer. A project where Zimmer's had a large paycheck dangled in front of him, writes 2 themes and then gives almost all of the work to 6 other composers, even when one could have done the job. Music credit: Music by Hans Zimmer.

 

Koray is having so much fun intentionally pretending not to see the problem with that.

 

If NTTD has a cool new 2-note Bond theme and Kaya's review is anything less than 5 stars, I'll be very disappointed. We're counting on you ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Credit in Hollywood MATTERS. It can make careers. And break careers.

 

I work in a normal corporate office. And I wouldn't mind flinging it in my manager's teeth if he tried to take credit for a paltry excel sheet I had prepared. Credit where it is due. There is remuneration for work done. But it also has to be attributed to you.

 

For the RC minions, whatever I think of their music, they deserve the credit if the composed it or contributed significantly to it.

 

I think there isn't a composers' union or this would have been litigated long on. Think about the writer's union and the rules they put in place to protect poor writers. If you started a script, you have an inalienable right to a credit unless there is a page 1 rewrite. If you contributed to a script significantly in rewrites, you can go to arbitration and win credit.

 

These minions deserve their credits. It will serve two purposes - god forbid someone talented emerges out of this pool and gets to have a voice. And it would expose some of the star composers for the charlatans and hacks they are. Both are necessary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to be one of those fools who mocked Zimmer for his clone army, but I've really come to appreciate his collaborative nature, and nurturing the new crop of composers - John Powell, Lorne Balfe and Henry Jackman regardless of their skill. 

You come to realize that having that network and community is a good thing.

 

On who gets what credit - I'm sure this is negotiated with the team - yet if there are additional composers they're obviously there to work with Zimmer's themes and ideas so naturally Zimmer would get the main credit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like the only way anyone is actually going to acknowledge the whole "getting sole credit for a group effort" claim is if someone steps up and complains about it. And in the history of film scoring, has anyone actually done that? Because if not, then what are we doing here arguing about something the "ghostwriters" ultimately don't give a shit about?

 

I definitely agree with the notion that Zimmer's practices still has branched out quite a few people that work pretty much independently from him now. And I do believe that's what he aims for, considering how he likes getting a new crop of collaborators for his next projects. You can yell all you want about how bullshit it seems, but it definitely produces results.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, HunterTech said:

And I do believe that's what he aims for, considering how he likes getting a new crop of collaborators for his next projects.

 

I doubt he's too upset when the more talented composers branch out and go solo. He can always replace them with younger composers desperate to break into the industry, happy to work for a pittance (while HZ receives all the credit and lion's share of the profits).

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're being harsh there - I'm sure Zimmer cares about thise who 'graduate' to getting solo projects and become a success. After all, what does Zimmer have to worry about?

 

Whether he's taking the millions and giving peanuts to the other composers - we're in no place to judge that.

 

11 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

For the RC minions, whatever I think of their music, they deserve the credit if the composed it or contributed significantly to it.

 

Agreed - for example if 60% of an album were composed by RCP assistant composers (to take an example where maybe Zimmer wasnt personally inspired by the film) then 'Music by Hans Zimmer' has no business being on the front cover. That's being done to sell CDs.

 

So when it's announced that 'Hans Zimmer will compose the score' for NTTD, I would expect the lion's share of the score to have been actually written by him to earn sole credit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2020 at 5:15 PM, antovolk said:

Good signs that the Eilish song may be incorporated in the score...

https://www.slashfilm.com/no-time-to-die-theme-song/

The earlier Rolling Stone article only mentions that Eilish co-wrote the song with her brother, but I hope Zimmer & co will at the very least produce something like Thomas Newman's Komodo Dragon track from Skyfall. That is, of course, provided that Eilish's song is amenable to the task - I think even John Barry would have struggled with Die Another Day (which I happen to like) or Another Way to Die (not my favourite!).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Whether he's taking the millions and giving peanuts to the other composers - we're in no place to judge that.

 

Call me cynical but I highly doubt the millions of dollars they're getting paid for Bond will be evenly divided relative to the work completed.

 

First and foremost HZ will take his percentage in exchange for acquiring the property and the use of his name in all the marketing, then the rest will be split among the team of composers writing the bulk of the score (on a scale relative to their position in the RC hierarchy).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Mazzaro?

 

I knew it! Called it weeks ago!

 

On 1/8/2020 at 12:35 PM, Edmilson said:

Tbh, I don't think it'll be either of them. Balfe and Wallfisch are established enough on their careers, so I think Zimmer may use this and his other 2020 movies to push the careers of some other protegees who haven't got the chance to receive top billing on a blockbuster just yet, like Mazzaro, Kawczynsky or Jacob Shea.

 

 

Zimmer is very predictable with his choice of minions. Now that Balfe and Wallfisch have their established careers, he'll try to make Mazzaro happen in the industry.

 

He already got the new Eon movie, the box office bomb The Rhythm Section, and, according to IMDB, the sequel for The Boss Baby.

Link to post
Share on other sites

People would do well to realize that Hans Zimmer is not really a classical composer, he is more of a "Solo artist", his name is always going to be on the cover, but the ones coming up with a lot of the nitty gritty are gonna be on the back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mazzaro: "Milord, we have been working for 15 straight hours with no rest and we just completed reel 4. Can we at least eat now?"

 

Zimmer: "No way, Steve, you're only going to have lunch when you finish scoring at least 2 more reels."

 

Mazzaro: "But milord, we're very tired, Johnny Marr's hands are bleeding and..."

 

Zimmer: "You talk as if it is the most difficult job in the world! Just copy and paste some stuff from Inception and the Batman movies and the moronic producers will be happy, they won't even be able to tell the difference!"

 

Mazzaro: "Okay..." 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...