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Hans Zimmer's NO TIME TO DIE (2021)


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2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You don't consider this album to be curated by the composer?

 

Of course it is. Which is great; it thereby qualifies as a proper soundtrack album.

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I initially thought this was a more generous Zimmer album, but actually once you discount the song, you're left with 65 mins which puts us roughly in the Gladiator territory, with a 2 hour (probably? based on the film's length) score represented by an album half that length.

 

This definitely looks 'curated', but then that's going to depend on one's opinion of the score - the less interesting you find the music, the more curation you need.

 

At least in this case Zimmer hasn't sung 'collaboration' and 'reinvention' from the rooftops, and just scored the film.

 

15 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Of course it is. Which is great; it thereby qualifies as a proper soundtrack album.

 

Not that I want to get into this again, but I'm curious about what aspects of this album tell you that it's been curated? (well ok, my previous point about length partially answers that) We don't know how chronological it is, or how much has been omitted - it's hard to nail down that definition sometimes.

 

Having said that, the score I bought last night (Annabelle Comes Home) definitely does not qualify as a 'curated' soundtrack album. Almost all of Bishara's albums are basically session dumps.

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Not that I want to get into this again, but I'm curious about what aspects of this album tell you that it's been curated? (well ok, my previous point about length partially answers that) We don't know how chronological it is, or how much has been omitted - it's hard to nail down that definition sometimes.

 

Yes, length. Can't speak to the chronology (other than that the title song is obviously placed last), as I would need to see the film multiple times and cross-compare, which is an activity that does not interest me.

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

Of course it is. Which is great; it thereby qualifies as a proper soundtrack album.

 

To Jay's dismay i wrongly put this into a review of an 'Paycheck' in the 'Older Scores' Thread, so find it here for additional leisure. It's not a that good an album, as pointed out below (short cues that don't do much, long cues that sometimes rumble on for minutes). 

 

Or, to put it differently, i don't need to be a composer to sort out the spots where it's lagging.

 

Quote

Neither fish nor fowl, Hans Zimmer's newest caper puts him at the top of the world again, at least box-office-wise: musically it's a mixed bag that either recalls much better things from 60's John Barry or doesn't differentiate itself enough from lowbrow recent action pattern, so apart from a few moments that make you perk up, it's curiously routine for such a 'dream harbored for decades'-affair. And the no holds barred-recording/mastering - hot doesn't describe it - is an additional minus.

 

Cues like 'Message from an Old Friend' or 'Cuba Chase' feature cool, jagged moments (counter trumpets!) but either need too much time to get there or die halfway on the road (the score is closest to David Arnold here). Others like 'Norway Chase' or 'The Factory' are complete losses. Outside these big action moments, there are some pleasant enough quieter moments (Home, Poison Garden, Final Ascent), that meander through the few basic chords of the Billie Eilish song to good effect. It's stylish enough, but again, when the old Barry chords are piercing through them, you just know how frugal modern film music has become.

 

Given Zimmer's tendency to compile long suites it's a bit of a puzzler why he puts in so many non-descript 1-minute cues here that don't do a whole lot, but that's what playlists are for. It's OK (he says without overt enthusiasm).

 

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Of course it is. Which is great; it thereby qualifies as a proper soundtrack album.

 

This is getting into the weeds and is intended to be good natured: Do you ever find that you disagree with a composer / producer about a cue that is left off a proper soundtrack album?

 

Back to Bond. I started listening to this a week ago but then I got back into Dune (and Star Wars).

 

I wonder what this would sound like without the Barry cues? On the one hand I feel like if I want to listen to OHMSS I'll just go listen to it. OTOH I kind of feel like the rest of the score sounds different because it has to "get along" with the Barry cues. Nothing in here jumps out at me as a Zimmer score. I'm sure many people think that's all to the good.

 

I think I commented earlier that Arnold pretty much covered the Bond theme. At least in any way that sounded even close to what Barry might have done.

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37 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

This is getting into the weeds and is intended to be good natured: Do you ever find that you disagree with a composer / producer about a cue that is left off a proper soundtrack album?

 

The whole aspect of 'missing music' doesn't really exist to me. I don't use the film as a frame of reference for my soundtrack enjoyment. All I care about is what's in front of me and whether or not that holds up as a listening experience. I'm glad that Zimmer tried to conceptualize both DUNE and NO TIME TO DIE for the soundtrack album a little bit (unlike some of his earlier overkill releases), because that's what a soundtrack album is to me. But they're on the long side, and includes too many non-descript action cues. Looking forward to weeding them down to better lengths when I have the time, maybe shuffle the cues around a bit. I'll share the playlists then.

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11 minutes ago, MedigoScan said:

I say the opposite! Release all music everywhere in the world!

 

LOL! And that is certainly your right. :)

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10 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I have an irrational hatred of the words 'soundtrack album' these days, especially if Williams or Zimmer have anything to do with it.

 

He, he. Same as I have to the word 'expansion', then. Just typing it makes me throw up in the mouth a little.

 

It's weird, because Zimmer used to be really good at producing soundtrack albums (sorry) back in the day. The 90s and 2000s. But quite often in recent years, they've been excessive in length.

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I completely agree about Zimmer's noughties albums - Gladiator and King Arthur for example, are two superb albums.

 

Although I dispute that an hour is excessive if dealing with a score that's double that. All comes down to whether the score is interesting, and I'm afraid that's in the ear of the beholder. NTTD is pretty good - maybe some of the action could be trimmed a bit, but I wouldn't say it's overlong.

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7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I completely agree about Zimmer's noughties albums - Gladiator and King Arthur for example, are two superb albums.

 

Although I dispute that an hour is excessive if dealing with a score that's double that. All comes down to whether the score is interesting, and I'm afraid that's in the ear of the beholder. NTTD is pretty good - maybe some of the action could be trimmed a bit, but I wouldn't say it's overlong.

 

It's not only a question about sheer length, though, but more importantly about representation. The album needs to be representative of the score without being excessive. For example, I can already say now that both "The Factory" and "I'll Be Right Back" on NTTD present pretty much the same idea. Both have that non-descript ostinato in the beginning/end, but then the gorgeous power anthem melody about midway (those goosebump-inducing minor mode progressions). I only need one of them to be representative, and it will be "I'll Be Right Back" since those chords are more prominent there.

 

Those kinds of considerations.

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Yes I agree with you that for the purposes of an initial representative album, considerations like that are very valid.

 

If alongside this album they were to do a digital release of the complete score, then everyone would be happy. (not saying I need it myself, but it caters for both camps)

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7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I completely agree about Zimmer's noughties albums - Gladiator

 

My Gladiator album is better than Zimmer's. Though i also used unused cues like 'Rome is the Light', which are much better than some of the amorphous whoppers like 'Barbarian Horde' (why has this cue to be 10 min +?). Also there are variations of the main themes like 'The Kiss' where you just don't know why they were left off.

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Just finished my first listen. I’d say it’s a pretty decent synthesis of the Barry/Arnold sound and the Newman approach with Zimmers beefed up brass samples and percussion. The first 2/3rds are enough for me to give it a solid 4 stars. 
 

I will say that “Final Ascent” is not really the tone I want my Bond scores to end on:/ Hans nicely weaves the Ellis song melody through his “Time” sensibilities. It’s just…been done a million times before. But I will be returning to a good amount of these tracks for a couple weeks now. Looking forward to seeing the film.

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The only surprising part of the score is the general organic orchestral sound - an approach that has become extremely rare in team HZ's outputs for this kind of movies. In fact, I wonder... to what extent was Hans involved with this to begin with? Temp tracks aside, there really isn't anything here that reminds me of his style. It is not like him to go crazy on other people's themes and ideas like this either. Even his Mission Impossible 2 only briefly quoted the signature theme.

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1 hour ago, Drawgoon said:

The only surprising part of the score is the general organic orchestral sound - an approach that has become extremely rare in team HZ's outputs for this kind of movies. In fact, I wonder... to what extent was Hans involved with this to begin with? Temp tracks aside, there really isn't anything here that reminds me of his style. It is not like him to go crazy on other people's themes and ideas like this either. Even his Mission Impossible 2 only briefly quoted the signature theme.

Although I enjoyed the score, I agree that it doesn't sound like Zimmer, specially the Zimmer from these days (Dune is more like him).
 

I don't want to bring back that age old discussion of "who wrote what in a Zimmer score", but this one is rather suspicious. I think what happened here was that he was instructed to follow the temp track (with Arnold, Barry, etc) more closely than the usual.

 

Which brings the question: if the Broccolis wanted a David Arnold-style score, why not hire Arnold himself? His fee surely would be way cheaper than Zimmer's and he surely needs a great success more than the German composer. 

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Not sure about Bond, but I won't be surprised if it turned out that in general David Arnold is avoiding Hollywood, blockbusters and alike on purpose.

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2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Which brings the question: if the Broccolis wanted a David Arnold-style score, why not hire Arnold himself? His fee surely would be way cheaper than Zimmer's and he surely needs a great success more than the German composer. 

 

Have the great PR of hiring Zimmer, but tell him to sound like Arnold - winning combination!

 

I generally got the possibly unfair impression that Zimmer farmed out movies he felt were more popcorny to his helpers more, and did solo (or with only the help needed for scheduling) the projects that seemed more interesting.

 

Angels & Demons for example, I only discovered that other RCP guys had done quite a bit when seeing some cue breakdown, and there's no denying that's a really silly movie (I love the film, but it's still silly). Whereas I don't see Zimmer landing a Bond score and thinking, let the other guys do this one.

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3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Although I enjoyed the score, I agree that it doesn't sound like Zimmer, specially the Zimmer from these days (Dune is more like him).
 

I don't want to bring back that age old discussion of "who wrote what in a Zimmer score", but this one is rather suspicious. I think what happened here was that he was instructed to follow the temp track (with Arnold, Barry, etc) more closely than the usual.

 

Which brings the question: if the Broccolis wanted a David Arnold-style score, why not hire Arnold himself? His fee surely would be way cheaper than Zimmer's and he surely needs a great success more than the German composer. 

 

Am I crazy here? Everything about that score sounds like Zimmer. The Inception 2 note horns, the Dark Phoenix synth effects at the beginning of the score, the power chords for the action scenes, the crescendo in "Final Ascent" (Zimmer duplicated this style numerous times), the woodwinds in "Poison Factory" and the Dark Knight Rises-esque minimalism near the end of the cue.  Zimmer even talks about scoring the "Cuba Chase" cue since he has friends with Cuban musicians.  

 

In fact, my initial disappointment with the score was how everyone was telling me Zimmer is paying homage to Barry and most of what I heard was Zimmer. It totally turned my expectations because I thought it was just too Zimmerish. I ended up enjoying the score, but more because I am a Zimmer fan than because he did a great job mimicking Barry. 

 

As for the Arnold comparison..."Cuba Chase" and "Norway Chase" sort of pay homage to his action style. But nothing in this score is like the 90s Arnold to me. Arnold's scoring was more kinetic and frantic in the 90s.

2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Their biggest mistake ever with the Bond franchise was replacing David Arnold.

 

That was the best move. Bond is a franchise that is interesting because different actors, directors, and composers all get a shot. That is what makes this franchise so discussible. 

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20 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

That was the best move. Bond is a franchise that is interesting because different actors, directors, and composers all get a shot. That is what makes this franchise so discussible.

 

I would agree with this if Arnold had been running in place. But Quantum of Solace says otherwise. That said, it's not like I think "NOBODY but Arnold!"

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Now I’m really going to put the cat among the pigeons.

I want John Williams to do the next James Bond film and yes I know the gunbarrel theme and Monty normans theme will have to come in , but he is more than capable of composing an astounding score with chase sequences and romantic themes and let’s get the London Symphony Orchestra on board for it too

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1 hour ago, Amvanquish said:

Now I’m really going to put the cat among the pigeons.

I want John Williams to do the next James Bond film and yes I know the gunbarrel theme and Monty normans theme will have to come in , but he is more than capable of composing an astounding score with chase sequences and romantic themes and let’s get the London Symphony Orchestra on board for it too

This has about the same chance of happening than Michael Bay winning an Academy Award and the Palme D'Or for Best Director.

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I would love a John Williams Bond score but, realistically, it only happens if Spielberg directs the next film (which will never happen).

 

We got our alternate universe Bond scores from JW with the Indiana Jones series. :)

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Don’t be too negative - don’t forget that Williams has underscored and adapted scores like Fiddler and GoodBye Mr Chips plus the homage to Bond in Catch Me If You Can.  it doesn’t have to be Spielberg - he does score other directors films . Plus I see numerous events around the UK with orchestras headlining Zimmer v Williams as an attraction. So a score from Williams  could reveal a brassy 1970s style score using elements as seen in Earthquake , Eiger , Jaws2 .Black Sunday and Family Plot etc but at the same time pull out the stops with some lush Sabrina sounds as in the style of Barry’s Diamonds are Forever.

As they say Never Say Never- it’s not out of the question.
In fact I met with Mike Matessino a few years ago just before Covid hit in London with my very good friend  Tim Burden (and also in Vienna) and posed the very question at a very exclusive gathering of fans saying that as and when the opportunity arises could the question be asked of the maestro.

it did not meet with any negativity from Mike or Tim. The reaction was that all the elements of a complex jigsaw would have  to fit into place for John to do it.

it will be interesting to see what the response will be if and when it comes .

All in good time.

 

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3 minutes ago, Amvanquish said:

Don’t be too negative - don’t forget that Williams has adapted scores like Fiddler , plus the homage to Bond in Catch Me If You Can  it doesn’t have to be Spielberg - he does score other directors films .

 

He really doesn't anymore, though, except for Star Wars.

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Don’t be too negative - don’t forget that Williams has underscored and adapted scores like Fiddler and Goodbye Mr Chips , plus the homage to Bond in Catch Me If You Can .

it doesn’t have to be Spielberg - he does score other directors films . Plus I see numerous events around the UK with orchestras headlining Zimmer v Williams as an attraction. So a score from Williams  could reveal a brassy 1970s style score using elements as seen in Earthquake , Eiger , Jaws2 .Black Sunday and Family Plot etc but at the same time pull out the stops with some lush Sabrina sounds as in the style of Barry’s Diamonds are Forever.

As they say Never Say Never- it’s not out of the question.
In fact I met with Mike Matessino a few years ago just before Covid hit in London with my very good friend  Tim Burden (and also in Vienna) and posed the very question at a exclusive gathering of fans saying that as and when the opportunity arises could the question be asked of the maestro.

it did not meet with any negativity from Mike or Tim. The reaction was that all the elements of a complex jigsaw would have  to fit into place for John to do it.

it will be interesting to see what the response will be if and when it comes .

All in good time.

 

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The maestro might be pushing towards 90 and  as we all know he composes music every day at his piano;  but what an addition to his portfolio a Bond score would be. 
just stand back , think of his previous work and realize that it is not out of the question and with the LSO at the helm , it would be friends revisited. 
Since Vienna , he is now keen to travel to Berlin so what next ? London could be a port of call in a few years time - I think you need some faith Jurassic

Spambot? 
I suggest you look at my past to see what I used to do in the film industry,  i used to be the Senior Film Buyer based in London for 3 major Uk multiplex cinema chains and have been on numerous set visits , to Abbey Road watching scores and in VIP enclosures with  major film stars and directors , producers etc. If you know Tim just ask him he knows who I am 

it can all be corroborated . 
Also , I don’t post a great deal on here because of some of the guff and nonsense I’ve read over the years. But when you’ve worked  within the UK film industry at a top level  like I have for 30 years there are things you just don’t talk about for confidentiality reasons . I 

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24 minutes ago, Amvanquish said:

The maestro might be pushing towards 90 and  as we all know he composes music every day at his piano;  but what an addition to his portfolio a Bond score would be. 

 

We know he prefers to compose his own themes, wasn't that the reason he turned down the first MI movie? I don't see him writing a score that uses other composers' themes at this stage on his career. He also turned down WSS, probably for the same reason.

 

24 minutes ago, Amvanquish said:

I think you need some faith Jurassic

 

There's a difference between faith and wishful thinking.

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36 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

He really doesn't anymore, though, except for Star Wars.

 

Well, and Indiana Jones...

 

In fact, once Indy 5 is released next year, he'll have scored more films for other directors in the past decade than he has for Spielberg.

 

I don't think anyone saw that coming.

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Yes, but Spielberg's still involved in that one.

 

But he wasn't involved in the other 4.

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28 minutes ago, Amvanquish said:

Also , I don’t post a great deal on here because of some of the guff and nonsense I’ve read over the years. But when you’ve worked  within the UK film industry at a top level  like I have for 30 years there are things you just don’t talk about for confidentiality reasons . I 

 

Yes, extremely vague implications is just what this board needs...

 

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

But he wasn't involved in the other 4.

 

38 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

He really doesn't anymore, though, except for Star Wars.

 

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By that logic, Memoirs of a Geisha is essentially a Spielberg score because he produced that film as well.

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1 hour ago, Amvanquish said:

just stand back , think of his previous work and realize that it is not out of the question and with the LSO at the helm , it would be friends revisited. 

 

Make no mistake, everyone here would love to see not only a Bond film scored by JW, but more films scored by JW in general.

 

Realistically though, when you consider there's only been two Bond films in the last 9 years, and they haven't even started looking for an actor to replace Craig, I can't imagine a film would be ready for JW to score before 2025 (when JW will be 93 years old).

 

And that's assuming Zimmer doesn't retain a stranglehold on the property now he's the incumbent. Supposedly he lobbied hard to get Bond due to the franchise's prestige; I can't even see David Arnold returning at this point.

 

At this stage I think everyone will just be ecstatic if he scores another Indiana Jones and the next Spielberg drama in 2022.

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54 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Realistically though, when you consider there's only been two Bond films in the last 9 years, and they haven't even started looking for an actor to replace Craig, I can't imagine a film would be ready for JW to score before 2025 (when JW will be 93 years old).

 

Oh, but it's not out of the question that they will cast JW as the new Bond (it's not the mileage, honey, it's the age), now that he's got his acting career going.

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