Mike Matessino's Indiana Jones

[Jurassic Shark 11,177]

If MM gets to produce remastered and expanded soundtrack albums of all Indy films, what would he have to improve on the earlier releases in order to end up with the definitive presentations?

[Ollie 1,004]

Pitch, sound and completeness.

[Jay 35,463]

No reason he should approach them differently than any other score 

[Jurassic Shark 11,177]

I'm asking what specifically the good people of JWFan want to have improved compared to the earlier releases.

[Ollie 1,004]

The head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

[Holko 8,990]

Complete tape rescan at correct speed, remix from scratch, pristine sound quality, completeness, correct order, well handled alternates, sweeteners and overlays, Königgrätzer with timpani overdub, no asinine OST edits reproduced, no pointless short audio interview taking up space, a box that fits its bloody contents. Jim Titus, ideally.

[Jurassic Shark 11,177]

6 minutes ago, Holko said:

Complete tape rescan at correct speed

 

Wasn't it ToD that had the wrong speed in the Concord set? Is the pitch noticeable different than that of the OST? I've never compared.

[Jay 35,463]

Raiders and TOD are both wrong in the Concord box, but not every track, and not at a consistently wrong speed; They basically didn't use the tape machine properly, so the tape went through it at an inconsistent speed, causing the pitch to be off by a different amount in a fluctuating way as the tracks go on.

 

I think for most people, it is not going to be that noticeable, but for people with perfect pitch, it must be incredibly annoying.  Any new edition of Raiders and TOD should absolutely start with a brand new, properly done 192/48 transfer of those tapes.  Crusade does not have any pitch issues, and it seems a digital master was used for the OST and Concord.  A fresh transfer of a tape master (which hopefully exists) would yield more fidelity than 1989-era digital.

[Ollie 1,004]

I never truly noticed the pitch issues, although I do admit a few cues sound "off".

 

 

[Chewy 2,269]

Hopefully it is coming soon!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,355]

This thread title! D'oh!

[Presto 4,765]

Better dynamic range.

[Datameister 1,903]

I thought the Concord set sounded great, other than the speed issues, which are correctable. My only real issue with that set is that there's still a lot of music missing. These types of scores - exciting, variegated, multi-thematic, endlessly interesting - are the ones where my completism just goes into overdrive. I want every single cue recorded, period. We're nearly there with Raiders, but the other two are disappointingly abridged even in that expansion. A release that presented all three scores in great sound quality without omitting any music would be just dandy.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

The OST is all you need.

[crumbs 13,908]

A proper film score presentation of TOD would be a great start, with the alternates placed correctly at the end rather than replacing the film versions (like Map or To Pankot Palace Insert). TOD has quite a few alternates compared to the other 2 trilogy scores, so hopefully they can all be included. I've never been able to make sense of all the various sweeteners and so forth on that score, so Mike's absolutely best placed to assemble all those elements correctly.

 

I wonder if Williams will veto most of the source music (notably the dance music inside Pankot Palace, even though we're not sure if Williams composed it). Who knows if that would hold true of the march music in TLC. The source music in the Indy films tends to blend with the score itself (similar to the source music in Potter), whereas Williams generally requests source music be removed if it doesn't "fit" with the style of the score (though there are exceptions to this rule).

 

So maybe the TOD stuff would be safe. I guess the palace feast music would be included, because it's essentially score masquerading as source.

[Richard Penna 3,247]

I would be amazed if this weren't being worked on in some capacity, however early stages it might be.

 

Williams is in a completely different mindset than he was when Concord made their set.

[Chewy 2,269]

12 hours ago, Dieter Stark said:

The OST is all you need.

Don't worry, Shawn Murphy will soon demaster the OSTs.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,776]

The OST is all you want.

[Andy 3,605]

The Rope Bridge, while musically simple, is too important dramatically to be omitted.

[crumbs 13,908]

That one is probably the most egregious omission of that entire set. Baffling.

[Pieter Boelen 698]

13 hours ago, crumbs said:

A proper film score presentation of TOD would be a great start, with the alternates placed correctly at the end rather than replacing the film versions (like Map or To Pankot Palace Insert).

Someone once made a version of Map that includes the film version AND the alternate in one.

That's my favourite! I wonder what people here would think of such an approach.

[Jurassic Shark 11,177]

Link, please!

[crumbs 13,908]

I did the exact same thing when the set came out. I wonder if it's the same one I did?

 

It was indeed the best of both worlds. I love the extended version of the love theme in the alternate, it's awesome.

[JTWfan77 1,681]

Yes, but which poster art do you guys want for the covers??

[Holko 8,990]

Brand new matching ones by Jim Titus!

[Ollie 1,004]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I would be amazed if this weren't being worked on in some capacity, however early stages it might be.

 

Williams is in a completely different mindset than he was when Concord made their set.

 

Hypothetically, we won’t see a release until after the 5th film gets made, if that ever happens.

[Datameister 1,903]

2 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Someone once made a version of Map that includes the film version AND the alternate in one.

That's my favourite! I wonder what people here would think of such an approach.

 

I've often thought of doing that, though I've never actually gotten around to it.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,355]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Brand new matching ones by Jim Titus!

Hm, while that possibility is intriguing, I can't imagine anything other than that original album artwork for Raiders of the Lost Ark, obviously touched up a bit and with the "expanded edition" sprawled across the top. Of course, I would be open to possibilities- it's Jim Titus after all!

 

[crocodile 7,733]

17 hours ago, El Jefe said:

 

Hypothetically, we won’t see a release until after the 5th film gets made, if that ever happens.

I hope this film doesn't happen.

 

Karol

[crumbs 13,908]

21 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Someone once made a version of Map that includes the film version AND the alternate in one.

That's my favourite! I wonder what people here would think of such an approach.

 

It works great! This is roughly what I edited together when the Concord set first came out:

 

[JoeinAR 1,943]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:08 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

If MM gets to produce remastered and expanded soundtrack albums of all Indy films, what would he have to improve on the earlier releases in order to end up with the definitive presentations?

A complete endtitle as heard in the film. talking ToD.

[crumbs 13,908]

7 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

A complete endtitle as heard in the film.

 

Ah yes, infuriating omission #2. Right behind Rope Bridge. Or maybe this one is worse, considering how easily that small section could've been included in either Return to the Village or End Credits.

[Pieter Boelen 698]

22 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Link, please!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hnJyL-CHMCKKUV4R7ERS1LXOBJgyikTy

 

22 hours ago, crumbs said:

I did the exact same thing when the set came out. I wonder if it's the same one I did?

I've got a vague memory that the one I've got was done by @GoodMusician after I requested it, but I might be wrong there.

 

I myself have combined and split tracks at will here and there, with little regard to how they were recorded.

For example, my "Over the Himalayas" ends early; before the spooky bit for the introduction to the Indian village starts.

That part I merged instead with the next cue in "The Starving Village", which seems to flow together beautifully.

In theory, I suppose these two tracks should've been one; but with the tone changing so drastically midway, this split seems to make the most sense to me.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ErTbnRl0dCv2CR8BjuQScIu4TdjNt4Df

 

I do something similar with "Water! and The Bridge", which ends right after the British fanfare.

"Return to the Village and End Credits" then starts with the happy/relieved music right after.

My reasoning is again similar: The music flows well together, but the resulting track is too long and changes pace drastically.

The first bit is extremely intense and exciting, while the denouement is basically the exact opposite.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UZfGv3uLetrdmxRzH43gcSOBUb7t_7S1

https://drive.google.com/open?id=173RRl743lw0mGE40N0qZaWP60ro7Cpvh

[Bellosh 3,016]

On 7/7/2019 at 1:28 PM, JTWfan77 said:

Yes, but which poster art do you guys want for the covers??

 

 

[Holko 8,990]

The first 3 are the best posters indeed, already used for the DVD trilogy boxset and reproduced in custom covers. It may be the best choice but I kinda want to see something new!

[Bellosh 3,016]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

The first 3 are the best posters indeed, already used for the DVD trilogy boxset and reproduced in custom covers. It may be the best choice but I kinda want to see something new!

 

I'd be open to anything!

[rough cut 1,653]

That was exclusively made for LLL by Jim Titus... and it was GREAT.

[Jay 35,463]

Jim took a photo of a kid on a bike then painted over it, but the sky is an ILM matte painting used in the film

 

 

https://theseconddisc.com/2017/11/extra-terrific-inside-the-art-of-la-la-lands-e-t-soundtrack-reissue/

[Bellosh 3,016]

Well dang I take it back.

 

Pretty cool stuff.

[Dr. Rick 1,114]

I almost had a heart attack when I read the thread title coming back from vacation in the Rocky Mountains!  Y'all are killing me! LOL

[Bellosh 3,016]

1 hour ago, ATXHusker said:

I almost had a heart attack when I read the thread title coming back from vacation in the Rocky Mountains!  Y'all are killing me! LOL

 

Seriously.  I wish this was real.  I think it will be eventually though.  There's so much missing music.

[jwalk713 40]

A 3CD presentation of 'Temple of Doom' would be a dream come true. There is so much music IN the finished film, and a host of alternates and still unreleased pieces. I don't know the history of this production as well as I should, but I believe I once read that the sacrificial music was one lengthy piece that was broken down and heard 'as needed' in various parts of the film. The most terrifying portions from the film haven't been released yet. A pristine-quality version of 'Mola Ram's Speech' would give me shivers. All the Palace Source music, and separate overlays would be marvelous. Also-- I'd love for someone to help me confirm or 'disconfirm' this: I'm 97% sure that there is an alternate insert in the film version of 'British Relief,' Firstly-- the cymbal clash on the downbeat of the fanfare is much louder in the film than on the CD (likely just a matter of mixing), but when the horn cluster reprise/variation begins-- the tempo is slightly different, and I'm pretty sure one particular chord is changed, slightly. (any other obsessors feel free to commune with me on this! lol) 

[crumbs 13,908]

8 hours ago, jwalk713 said:

Also-- I'd love for someone to help me confirm or 'disconfirm' this: I'm 97% sure that there is an alternate insert in the film version of 'British Relief,' Firstly-- the cymbal clash on the downbeat of the fanfare is much louder in the film than on the CD (likely just a matter of mixing), but when the horn cluster reprise/variation begins-- the tempo is slightly different, and I'm pretty sure one particular chord is changed, slightly. (any other obsessors feel free to commune with me on this! lol)  

 

Sounds more like an incorrect take being used on the last release, with the proper film take for that section unreleased. They weren't particularly thorough with QC on the Concord box.

[jwalk713 40]

11 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Sounds more like an incorrect take being used on the last release, with the proper film take for that section unreleased. They weren't particularly thorough with QC on the Concord box.

Sounds about right. Now we just need someone within the Disney machine to be willing to give this project to Mike, and all will be righted. 

[Bellosh 3,016]

2 minutes ago, jwalk713 said:

Sounds about right. Now we just need someone within the Disney machine to be willing to give this project to Mike, and all will be righted. 

 

Like someone else said in this thread, really don't see this happening until the 5th is released.

[jwalk713 40]

41 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

Like someone else said in this thread, really don't see this happening until the 5th is released.

:: sigh :: So I guess we just have to suffer one more nail in the damned coffin before we get the jewels of the kingdom? All right. I'll take that bullet. 

[crumbs 13,908]

I'll feel a lot better once Spielberg stops wasting his time remaking musicals and bunkers down to solidify a plan for Indy 5 (with whoever the heck is writing the film now Kasdan's departed).

 

It's like they've spent a decade gestating because Spielberg gives the film approximately ten minutes thought a year. You'd have expected a locked down McGuffin by this point but the film seems stuck in deeper development hell than Crystal Skull pre-Darabont. And yet production is slated to begin early next year (fat chance).

 

Surely not even Temple of Doom or Last Crusade were this difficult to develop? Is the series just a victim of its own success? The entire fun of these films was that they were simple, globe-trotting adventures. Why did it become so complicated between 3 and 4? KOTCS is the poster-boy for a director/writer completely overthinking what a film sequel needs to be; more like a soulless list of market research checkboxes than an adventure movie.

 

14 minutes ago, jwalk713 said:

:: sigh :: So I guess we just have to suffer one more nail in the damned coffin before we get the jewels of the kingdom? All right. I'll take that bullet. 

 

I'll take it purely for another JW Indy score, if he's still up for it (and watching him conduct the Raiders March in that Tanglewood video, I'm not too concerned). His score for KOTCS was mediocre but it was probably still one of the film's few redeeming qualities.

[Richard Penna 3,247]

I'd really rather SS dropped Indy altogether. If you ignore the existence of KotCS, you have a perfect trilogy that doesn't need to be added to.

 

JW's score for KotCS was serviceable but hardly something that makes me want a 5th film or score.

[crumbs 13,908]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

JW's score for KotCS was serviceable but hardly something that makes me want a 5th film or score.

 

Just skimming through the KOCS sessions tonight, thinking of how Matessino would handle all those short cues, but bored out of my brain at cue after cue that sound the same as the one preceding it. Barring two highlights (the warehouse and campus chase), the first hour of the score is such a slog. So many monotonous underscore cues with thin orchestration... there's little of those trademark Jay-Dubs flourishes that gave life to the original scores.

 

One of the criticisms of KOTCS is how "off" everything feels from the beginning. From the obnoxious CG in the opening shot, to Kaminski's wildly off-putting cinematography and Ford struggling to spark life into Koepp's awkward dialogue, but even the music (barring the fun militaristic march as the Russians storm the base) just feels wrong from the opening cue. Nothing screams "Indiana Jones"; the magic seems absent, the writing restrained as if he were scoring one of Spielberg's historical dramas. It's like everyone involved forgot the tone of these films and what made them so enjoyable. The rich string and brass writing that played tribute to the golden age of film music is abandoned in favour of murky underscore that would feel more at home in Munich or War of the Worlds.

 

I know Williams can only score to the picture he's given (and yes, it's a reflection of the filmmaking on display) but it's hard to fathom he wrote this score only 3 years after Revenge of the Sith, one of his most bombastic. Certainly, sensibilities change but I really hope he can harken back to that classic style of writing if he ever scores a 5th film (and the same goes for its director -- though I won't hold my breath).

[Holko 8,990]

And even when there's Indy-like life in there, it's just a straight up copy-paste of the opening of Map Room or something!