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What's up with the Disney Theme in CEOTK.....and Hello!


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First of all, a big hello to you all.

I've been a long-time browser of this site and its message board, but this is the first time i've posted.

On to the question.

In one of my favorite John Williams' scores, that being Close Encounters of the Third Kind, a stirring yet somewhat misplaced trace of the "When you Wish Upon a Star" theme is inserted in the Epilogue of the score/film. Besides the obligatory references to the "star", i'm wondering if anyone knows or has read somewhere why the Maestro inserted this little motiff at this specific point?

I've always wondered about that...

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First of all it isn't the Disney theme, 2nd Hello. :) and third, CEOTK is about stars so I suppose When you Wish Upon a Star is kind of fitting. Personally I love the little performance of it. :)

Justin -Who demands the removal Maesto Groupie's avatar on pain of death!

;) ;)

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It's Spielbergs's favorite song. Consider it a present from Williams to Spielberg.

You may correct me if wrong.

----------------

Alex Cremers

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Also, there is a Pinnochio reference at the beginning of the film. The kids have a choice of playing Goofy Golf or seeing Pinnochio.

Neil

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Another CE3K fan! You're certainly welcome here...! Not enough of us by a long shot....:)

The reason behind appearance of "When You Wish Upon a Star" is one of the most overlooked points I think I've seen in a movie, especially a Spielberg one. We've dealt with the question more than once here (though not in a good year or more). I'm not sure why so many people miss it.

Yes, it's one of Spielberg's favorite films, and a story he seems to delight in referring to (A.I., anyone?), and he does love the song. But the reason for the music in CE3K is more character-specific than that. Remember near the start of the film (the third scene, if you really want to pare it down) when Roy Neary tries to cajole his family into going to the movies instead of playing Goofy Golf? What's the movie he wants them all to see, the one he grew up with, where there are "magic, and furry animals, and we'll all have a wonderful time"? Yup.

It's meant to establish an underlying trait. Pinnochio searched for the means by which he could become a "real boy;" Neary spends the movie looking for the magical answer to justify his own obsession. When he finds it, what better piece to play to laud his achievement than one that ties both films together beautifully through the common theme of stargazing? It's a great bit of cross-seeding, and it's emergence in the end titles is one of the missing moments I waited years for, until the Special Edition finally offered it to me (and I had to wait a helluva lot longer than Roy Neary.... ;)).

Once again, welcome. :)

- Uni

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CE3K to me is like Pinocchio to Roy.

"How old are you?"

"8."

"Wanna be 9?"

"Yeah."

"Then you're seeing Close Encounters tomorrow night."

I guess my parents put it in front of me because it was sci-fi, like Star Wars--which I was born liking. I know that's why they bought me the LP and the SE when I was 5 or something. They didn't like that music, but they bought it for me anyway. Somehow, the movie kept my attention at that age (and kids have SHORT attention spans; right Ren?). It's weird how I've never lost interest in those movies. I lost interest in the kiddie movies, but not the grown-up ones. I grew up watching Superman, CE3K, and SW more than I watched anything on Nickelodeon. I can't remember how I felt about Sesame Street. I loved Mr. Rogers (God rest his awesome soul). Man...those were the days...

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Another CE3K fan!  You're certainly welcome here...!  Not enough of us by a long shot....;)

There is one in me.

Ted, who is a huge Close Encounters fan.

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I think that the reason for the inclusion of that theme might not be so complicated. There was a scene originally where the boy was singing the song. JW scored the movie thinking that this scene was going to stay in the movie. I could be wrong, but I think if he had known the scene would be dropped he would not have included the references in the rest of the movie.

The full presentation of the song in the end credits of the Special Edition was an attempt, later, to make its appearance more coherant but, I doubt, it would have been the direction he would have taken in 1977, again, without the scene of the boy singing, unless Spielberg insisted.

- Adam

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I read somewhere that Spielberg listened to "When You Wish Upon a Star" while writing the screenplay. My understanding is he asked John to put it somewhere in the score, and John obliged.

Also, I pointed out in a thread somewhere (too lazy to find it, sorry) that the five tones of communication sound similar to the first five notes of "Star," with maybe a slight key change. I could be wrong, but it sounds similar.

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Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

And no Justin, I will *not* remove my icon - I chose it for a specific reason. ;)

Don't make me do to you what I mention in my signature. :music:

As for CEOTK, it is definitely one of my favorite films and scores. To me, its a perfect synthesis of visual and auditory delights. Its funny though, I never really realized Speilberg's affection for Pinnochio before now, but the more I think about it, Speilberg does seem to have an affinity for tales of lost childhood and the like (Hook, etc).

Also, has anyone else noticed the frequent reoccurances of the estranged father-son relationship motiff in Speilberg's films? I think he's trying to tell us something.

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I didn't noticed it at first but then I read your signature. LOL

And somehow I don't believe you would flame me. I think you wrote it, not because you believe in it, but because it is funny.

Regarding Spielberg's frequently returning theme, it is my guess that maybe Spielberg has a strong sense of melancholy. He's a dreamer and doesn't seem to like the present since most of his movies are set in the past or future. He flees to other worlds, other times. He creates them and takes us, the viewer along with him.

Maybe he's the Pan.

----------------

Alex Cremers

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Didn;'t Spielberg want that in there?

I beliebve it was his decision. I don't think John actually planned for that in the score.

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I read somewhere that Spielberg listened to "When You Wish Upon a Star" while writing the screenplay. My understanding is he asked John to put it somewhere in the score, and John obliged.

.

Something like that I would guess.In the CE3K novel,which Spielberg wrote too,he writes at the end..

"Neary was almost inside now.Incredibly,he was thinking and hearing a song in his head.it was from Pinnochio.

when you wish upon a star..."

K.M.

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I thought Spielberg originally wanted it sung over the end credits, but couldn't have it happen that way, so John Williams did the next best thing by incorporating the theme into the musict itself.

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I can't really answer the question for you, I think it has something to do with the Pinnochio references (although the scene where Neary wants his kids to go see the film was not in the original cut - only the music box remained). But incidentally, I bought the score last Saturday, along with Jaws and Superman: The Movie, and it was kind of overshadowed by those two at first. But I just finished listening to it again, and manoman! I thought the Finale from E.T. was musical perfection... I was wrong: this is! That last track literally takes my breath away! I freakin' love this score!

- Marc, very enthousiastic.

:thumbup: Cluster One from The Division Bell (Pink Floyd) ... for some reason.

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I thought the Finale from E.T. was musical perfection... I was wrong: this is! That last track literally takes my breath away! I freakin' love this score!

Blasphemy!! :thumbup:

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Well, E.T. is still a very, very, very close second. CE3K is just such beautiful music. Although I haven't listened to E.T. in a while. Must do so again.

- Marc, who thinks both scores are brilliant.

:thumbup: Prelude And Main Title March from Superman: The Movie

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If my meorey doens't fails me, the original run of Ce3K didn't included the song on the end credits. Soem copyrigth thing, I beleive, This was only included on the Special edition, and was something that Spielberg wanted.

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Yeah, there is a selection of other pieces from the film. I don't know if it was especially recorded as End Credits or whether it's tracked.

- Marc, who has a copy of the orginal cut on VHS, but it's really screwed up.

:thumbup: The Planet Krypton (Alternate) from Superman: The Movie

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You'll find the explanation of the use of "When You Whish Upon A Star" in Uni's post and in the lyrics of the song:

When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are

Anything your heart desires will come to you

If your heart is in your dreams, no request is too extreme

When you wish upon a star as dreamers do

(Fate is kind, she brings to those who love

The sweet fulfillment of their secret longing)

Like a bolt out of the blue, fate steps in and sees you thru

When you wish upon a star, your dreams come true

This was only included on the Special edition, and was something that Spielberg wanted.

Until he decided he didn't want it anymore, for his most recent "Director's Cut"

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there's another great interpolation the song in the Inside the Mothership music recorded in 1980,which was also cut out from the recent release.

K.M.Who's favourite version of the film is the 1980 special Edition.

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I But incidentally, I bought the score last Saturday, along with Jaws and Superman: The Movie, and it was kind of overshadowed by those two at first. But I just finished listening to it again, and manoman! I thought the Finale from E.T. was musical perfection... I was wrong: this is! That last track literally takes my breath away! I freakin' love this score!

.

That makes me wish I didn't have every single Williams score release yet,so I could still have the thrill of listening to some of his classics for the first time.

K.M.

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there's another great interpolation the song in the Inside the Mothership music recorded in 1980,which was also cut out from the recent release.

True. Although the original version of that cue remains unreleased, and it's only available as a rerecording as part of the 1980 and 1990 performances of the 10-minute suite (JW/Boston Pops)

K.M.Who's favourite version of the film is the 1980 special Edition.

That's my least favorite version (although I've seen it between 15 and 20 times since 1980, because it was the only one available for many years). My favorite version is the original 1977 release (which unfortunately I only saw... once :) )

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Guest macrea

Close Encounters, as an ultimate wish fulfillment story, very clearly and appropriately uses Pinocchio as a literary and cinematic reference.

To clarify and expand upon what has been said previously...

The mention of the Disney movie was filmed but not included in the original 1977 version. It was replaced by an establishing shot of the Jiminy Cricket music box playing the song over Roy Neary's first appearance. Roy's wife refers to him as "Jiminy Cricket" toward the end of the scene. We see the music box again later, at the height of Roy's obsession, as a reminder of where and who he was at the beginning.

When Roy's "dream" finally does "come true" at the film's climax, Williams very appropriately uses the song in the underscore as Roy is embraced by the little ETs. Since music is their mode of communication, the other appropriate thing that happens there is that all of the sound effects are completely dialed out, leaving only pure music on the soundtrack.

The orchestrated version of "When You Wish Upon a Star" was done by Williams in 1977. This was his original version of the end credits, the temp track for which was the actual sung recording from the Disney film. Spielberg like the actual song better, and so this is what was heard when the film was previewed. The original assembly of the score for a double LP was going to include it.

When Spielberg made cuts to the film, it was decided that the use of the song was too sentimental, and so it was replaced with edited and tracked music from elsewhere. This is what ended up being on the original album.

When Spielberg did the S/E in 1980, Williams recorded new music for the inside of the mothership, which included another statement of the song. The reference to the Disney film was also added back in at this time. For whatever reason, it was decided that Williams' original orchestration for the end credits was now appropriate, and so the movie was changed.

Curiously, when the movie was changed again in 1998 (into a hybrid of the 77 and 80 versions), the tracked and edited end credits from 77 were put back onto the movie, but the instrumental "When You Wish" was put on the expanded soundtrack CD.

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because it was the only one available for many years).  

I think the version that plays sometimes on TV (like PBS for the pledgedrives) is the 1977 version ,but even that may be edited for TV.

K.M.

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I was lucky enough to grow up with the complete film on tape, and it's easy for me to forget that many people still haven't seen sequences of the film that are old hat to me. That would be the reason so many miss the reference to Pinnochio at the beginning of the movie. Makes sense.

Thanks for the detailed rundown, macrea. Good info there.

- Uni

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Guest macrea

Uni, can you please explain... The "complete" film has never been on tape, but of course that depends on what you consider to be the "complete" film....

The first cable airings and the initial VHS release was in 1981, and they only released the 1980 Special Edition. The early Laserdiscs were also this version. Three major sequences and several small bits from the 1977 version were missing, and three new sequences were added (along with other bits and pieces) that weren't in it originally.

The first ABC network broadcast in 1983 combined the two versions, but still left out a few shots and the extended depot sequence (with Carl Weathers, whose name remained in the credits) was not included, nor were the two shots showing Neary, Jillian, and Larry escaping from the helicopter.

The Criterion/Voyager laserdisc released in 1990 was an attempt to restore the 1977 version, but at Spielberg's request, the S/E insert of the mother ship shadow remained, and four other shots exclusive to the 1977 version were NOT restored. (All S/E scenes and unrestored shots were in the supplements.) This "almost-restored" 1977 version aired a lot on TV in the 1990's, but occasionally the 1980 S/E also was shown. To my knowledge, this version was never released as a factory VHS tape. The cheap Good Times Home Video tape was an EP copy of the S/E!

In 1998, the "Collectors Edition" was released on VHS and Laserdisc, and later on DVD. It is a hybrid version that is actually far from complete. I could go on about the specific differences, but I'd like to know what you consider to be the "complete" film, and what you mean when you said that "you grew up having it on tape." Perhaps it would help to know what era you grew up in.

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In Pinocchio, the wooden boy longs to become real, and finally there is the bule fairy, some "fairy dust" and he is a boy.

Can you remember the final scenes of the movie? Dreyfuss enters the ship. Kind of fairy dust, then...In the next shot you can see only aliens in the ship...Isn't it a possible explanation?

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Sheesh....I shoulda known better than to casually drop a remark as loaded as "complete" in front of an expert like you, macrea. :oops: :music:

I was referring to the ABC broadcast--the very first thing my family ever taped on a VCR, so you're right about it not appearing that way in any "released" version. You're also right about the few missing minutes, but I would venture to say (even in front of you, mac) that the ABC contains more of the film than any other. For a couple of years there, I'd wind up watching it once or twice a week after school....thereby "growing up" with it.

As a result, I can hardly stand to watch the other versions. Entire scenes, valuable scenes, are just gone. Missing. Open wounds. I can't handle it. So I guess "complete" is entirely based on perspective; to me, the ABC broadcast was (and is) the only one I'd consider complete.

Thanks for further clarifying. :sadwavey:

- Uni

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In 1998, the "Collectors Edition" was released on VHS and Laserdisc, and later on DVD.  It is a hybrid version that is actually far from complete.  I could go on about the specific differences.

Macrea,

I am a great fan of CE3K; however, I have only seen two versions. (The SE VHS, which I rented, and the DVD, which I own.) I would very much like to know why you consider the DVD "far from complete," as I don't like the idea that I haven't seen the film in its best incarnation.

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In 1998, the "Collectors Edition" was released on VHS and Laserdisc, and later on DVD.  It is a hybrid version that is actually far from complete.  I could go on about the specific differences.

Macrea,

I am a great fan of CE3K; however, I have only seen two versions. (The SE VHS, which I rented, and the DVD, which I own.) I would very much like to know why you consider the DVD "far from complete," as I don't like the idea that I haven't seen the film in its best incarnation.

Being "far from complete" and being the "best incarnation" don't always go hand in hand. Just because something has more doesn't mean that it's better.

Neil

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This "almost-restored" 1977 version aired a lot on TV in the 1990's, .

that must be the PBS version,there's no inside the mothership sequence

K.M.

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I think it has something to do with the Pinnochio references

Then Spielberg should have put that song into the A.I. score instead. That film had way more references to that story. Hell, the whole damn plotline was practically built around it.

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Guest macrea

Neela, I'll try to do this as succinctly as possible:

Scenes missing from the CE3K DVD cut and their history:

1) Roy at the power plant: After the blackout hits, we see Roy at the power plant where he is assigned to investigate a downed line. It helps establish his job better than just seeing him suddenly out on the road, and it shows how arbitrary it all was. If he hadn't been there at that moment, he wouldn't have gotten that assignment and wouldn't have had the close encounter. This scene was in the 1977 version, cut out for the 1980 S/E, shown on ABC, and put back into the film for the Criterion laserdisc. It's on the DVD as a supplement only

2) Crescendo summit scene:

A) In the original 1977 version, after the UFO's fly by, the "farmer" (played by Roberts Blossom) says: "They can fly rings around the moon, but we're years ahead of them on the highway." Spielberg cut this for the 1980 S/E., and it was not on ABC or on the DVD. It was restored for the Criterion laserdisc, but not seen at all unless their version is broadcast.

B) For the 1980 S/E, a new shot was created. After Barry says "ice cream," there is an insert of the McDonalds billboard with the UFO spotlights moving over it. This was shown on ABC.

I was hoping that the DVD would finally be a version that used BOTH of these shots, but the DVD has NEITHER!

2) The pillows: After Roy gets fired, he lies on the bed and sees a pillow in the shape of the mountain. This was in the 1977 version, ABC broadcast, and Criterion laserdisc only. It needs to be in the film because Roy mentions the pillows to Jillian later. It was not in the S/E and not on the DVD.

3) Scene order: In 1977, after the pillows, we went to the helicopter raid on Crescendo Summit, then to India, then to the arena where Lacombe demonstrates the hand signs, then to the Goldstone telescope where the map coordinates are discovered, and then to Barry playing the notes on the xylophone. It works much better to follow the "five notes" from the discovery in India to Lacombe's presentation to the translation to map coordinates, and then using them to transition back to the other characters. In 1980, the scene order was changed so that we go from Roy getting fired, then to India, then to the helicopter raid, then to the arena, and then to the telescope. The pillow scene got cut, and the Gobi desert scene was added, with only one scene between that and the India scene. The original order was much better.

4) Lacombe's applause: In the 1980 S/E, Spielberg put back in a moment where the audience applauds Lacombe after he demonstrates how the five notes are communicated with hand signs. This was in the ABC version but not put into the DVD.

5) Dinner table: The 1977 version had a longer beginning which showed Roy entering the dining room and sitting down. It was a much better beginning. It was not on ABC or on the DVD. It was put back in for the Criterion laserdisc.

6) Roy builds the mountain: The 1977 version had two extra shots showing Roy looking out the window at kids playing baseball. This was only on the Criterion laserdisc as a supplement (left out at Spielberg's request, according to the jacket). It was not on ABC or on the DVD, so it hasn't been part of the film since the original release.

7) The evacuation depot: This is really mixed up. The 1977 version was the best, and it has only been on the Criterion laserdisc. It was not on ABC or the DVD. Roy arrives, parks the car, goes to the barrier, where he is confronted by Carl Weathers. He then buys gas masks and as he heads to his car, he thinks he hears Jillian call out to him. He dismisses it and then puts the gas masks in the car. He hears Jillian again, and this time he goes to train station and finds her. In 1980, they cut the entire first part of the scene out, but in order to make this work they had to mix in Jillian shouting "Roy" over that latter part of the scene. This is the version that was on ABC. The DVD also uses this version... but WITHOUT the sound of Jillian calling Roy. In other words, they used the 1977 sound mix and missed the fact that this change was necessary. If the entire original version of the scene were included, they wouldn't have had a problem.

8) Helicopter escape: Only in the original 1977 version, we see two shots showing Roy, Jillian, and Larry forcing their way out of the helicopter and making a run for it. Without it, their escape makes no sense. These two shots were on the Criterion laserdisc as a supplement only, again left out at Spielberg's request. They were not on ABC or on the DVD, and they haven't been part of the film since the original 77 release.

9) End credits music: I guess this is a matter of preference, but they already changed the music once in 1980 to what Williams originally wrote. It think they should have left it that way instead of changing it back to the hacked/tracked 1977 release version.

What they got right on the DVD:

Introduction to Roy Neary:

1977: Shot of Jiminy Cricket music box and toy trains derailing. Close up of Roy and then Ronnie says "Okay, everybody to bed."

1980: Roy and his oldest son talk about his fraction problem, stage train wreck to demonstrate, Roy and kids argue over Pinocchio and goofy golf.

The 1980 version was used on ABC and on the DVD. The 1977 version was a reshoot anyway, but the original (not seen until 1980) version is a much better introduction to all the characters.

Ronnie's departure: The shower/argument scene was put back in for the 1980 S/E, but Roy throwing dirt etc. in through the windows was cut out. Ronnie's departure in 1977 seemed too humorous, but in 1980 it seemed very harsh and unmotivated. ABC and the DVD are the only times the film has had both scenes together.

And, of course... no dreadful "inside" the mothership!

That about covers it.

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macrea, isn't there also a scene in the 1977 cut where Gillian is swarmed by the press at a conference, asking her about Barry's disappearence, and then the conference itself, where the existence of flying saucers is denied by the government? If I'm not mistaken, it also features the "farmer" again, talking about the UFO's, and Roy doing a sketch of Devil's Tower on a newspaper so fast his pencil breaks. I don't think this was in the SE.

- Marc, who has an awful copy of the '77 edition on VHS, but there's a part missing from this scene. :angry:

:wave: Encounter At Crescendo Summit from Close Encounters of the Third Kind :nono:

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Woah, thanks for the run-down, Macrea.

I think that the powerplant and the Carl Weathers scenes are actually included in deleted scenes on the DVD. Also, there is a shot of applause for Lacombe's tones.

It sounds like the pillow scene would have been a good addition, as well as an extended dinner scene.

Judging from the documentary on the DVD, Spielberg doesn't seem to like the film that much anymore. Perhaps that's why there wasn't a FINAL, well done, cut for the DVD.

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Wow....well done, macrea! A few responses:

1)  Roy at the power plant:  After the blackout hits, we see Roy at the power plant where he is assigned to investigate a downed line.  It helps establish his job better than just seeing him suddenly out on the road, and it shows how arbitrary it all was.  If he hadn't been there at that moment, he wouldn't have gotten that assignment and wouldn't have had the close encounter.  This scene was in the 1977 version, cut out for the 1980 S/E, shown on ABC, and put back into the film for the Criterion laserdisc.  It's on the DVD as a supplement only

The omission of this scene--cutting immediately to Gillian in the forest, calling for Barry--is one of the biggest open wounds on the newer versions. It's a great character establishment scene; we see some subtle shades of Neary's insecurities, and his willingness to accept authority and stick to the status quo (which he will begin to buck the very next day).

2)  Crescendo summit  scene:

A) In the original 1977 version, after the UFO's fly by, the "farmer" (played by Roberts Blossom) says: "They can fly rings around the moon, but we're years ahead of them on the highway."  Spielberg cut this for the 1980 S/E., and it was not on ABC or on the DVD.  It was restored for the Criterion laserdisc, but not seen at all unless their version is broadcast.

Ah! I would love to see this!

B) For the 1980 S/E, a new shot was created.  After Barry says "ice cream," there is an insert of the McDonalds billboard with the UFO spotlights moving over it.  This was shown on ABC.

Probably the easiest and most justifiable cut in the film.

I was hoping that the DVD would finally be a version that used BOTH of these shots, but the DVD has NEITHER!

Nope....and why not?!?

2)  The pillows:  After Roy gets fired, he lies on the bed and sees a pillow in the shape of the mountain.  This was in the 1977 version, ABC broadcast, and Criterion laserdisc only.  It needs to be in the film because Roy mentions the pillows to Jillian later.  It was not in the S/E and not on the DVD.

Another crucial scene sorely missed--if for no other reason that this is the first one that presents the "shape" with the flat top...!

3)  Scene order:  In 1977, after the pillows, we went to the helicopter raid on Crescendo Summit, then to India, then to the arena where Lacombe demonstrates the hand signs, then to the Goldstone telescope where the map coordinates are discovered, and then to Barry playing the notes on the xylophone.  It works much better to follow the "five notes" from the discovery in India to Lacombe's presentation to the translation to map coordinates, and then using them to transition back to the other characters.  In 1980, the scene order was changed so that we go from Roy getting fired, then to India, then to the helicopter raid, then to the arena, and then to the telescope.  The pillow scene got cut, and the Gobi desert scene was added, with only one scene between that and the India scene.  The original order was much better.

I agree for the most part, other than to say the addition of the Gobi desert scene was one of the things that actually made the special edition an improvement (at least I thought so).

5) Dinner table:  The 1977 version had a longer beginning which showed Roy entering the dining room and sitting down.  It was a much better beginning.  It was not on ABC or on the DVD.  It was put back in for the Criterion laserdisc.

Another one missing from my "complete" version. (I'm gonna hafta get me wunna them fancy-shmancy Criteerion laser thingies, ain't I...?)

6) Roy builds the mountain:  The 1977 version had two extra shots showing Roy looking out the window at kids playing baseball.  This was only on the Criterion laserdisc as a supplement (left out at Spielberg's request, according to the jacket).  It was not on ABC or on the DVD, so it hasn't been part of the film since the original release.

I haven't seen it, but here's another cut I can live with. His brief glance out the window (with the old Budweiser commercial playing in the background) is sufficient to "separate" him from the rest of the world.

8) Helicopter escape: Only in the original 1977 version, we see two shots showing Roy, Jillian, and Larry forcing their way out of the helicopter and making a run for it.  Without it, their escape makes no sense.  These two shots were on the Criterion laserdisc as a supplement only, again left out at Spielberg's request.  They were not on ABC or on the DVD, and they haven't been part of the film since the original 77 release.

Here's an oddity....you're right, this wasn't in the ABC version, but I actually remember it from the 1977 version, which I haven't seen since then (or shortly thereafter). I think I actually missed seeing that in the ABC run when I was 10, and it was an omission that always stuck with me. You're right--it ought to be in there.

What they got right on the DVD:

Introduction to Roy Neary:

1977: Shot of Jiminy Cricket music box and toy trains derailing.  Close up of Roy and then Ronnie says "Okay, everybody to bed."

1980: Roy and his oldest son talk about his fraction problem, stage train wreck to demonstrate, Roy and kids argue over Pinocchio and goofy golf.

The 1980 version was used on ABC and on the DVD.  The 1977 version was a reshoot anyway, but the original (not seen until 1980) version is a much better introduction to all the characters.

Absolutely. The fraction problem, Pinocchio vs. golf, and Ronnie yelling at Roy for leaving his junk around ("This stuff can cause tetnis!" [sp?]) while he remains oblivious is classic, and shows Roy as someone already losing control of his family. The alternate is a hasty, inferior attempt to ellucidate chaos and an establishing trait or two. Bleh.

Ronnie's departure:  The shower/argument scene was put back in for the 1980 S/E, but Roy throwing dirt etc. in through the windows was cut out.  Ronnie's departure in 1977 seemed too humorous, but in 1980 it seemed very harsh and unmotivated.  ABC and the DVD are the only times the film has had both scenes together.

And together they communicate the whole picture. I really missed seeing some of the funnier business, as Roy collects materials for his masterpiece, in the trunicated version.

*********************************

On the DVD, we're also allowed to see a scene missing from every all of them that I felt should've been left in: the block party, where Roy's skygazing soon has everyone gaping up in the air, though none of them have any idea why. This is one of those classic Spielbergian "crowd" scenes, where he manages to make a large group of people act and interact as if there are no cameras present.

macrea, isn't there also a scene in the 1977 cut where Gillian is swarmed by the press at a conference, asking her about Barry's disappearence, and then the conference itself, where the existence of flying saucers is denied by the government? If I'm not mistaken, it also features the "farmer" again, talking about the UFO's, and Roy doing a sketch of Devil's Tower on a newspaper so fast his pencil breaks. I don't think this was in the SE.

Yep, that one's missing too. And the farmer doesn't touch on the UFO's--but he does tell the story of his encounter with Bigfoot, much to everyone's amusement (except Roy's). This was an important scene because it presented the government differently than much of the rest of the film so far, which was mostly Men in Black stuff. Here they were trying to calm the public and avoid hysteria, putting on a cheerful face while pointing out how silly such claims can be. (The officer leading the conference shows a picture of a flying saucer, which he reveals is made of pewter and thrown across the lawn by his son--but not before he one of the attendees yells out, "That's the one I saw!")

Great discussion. Thanks again, macrea. :)

- Uni

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Another CE3K fan!  You're certainly welcome here...!  Not enough of us by a long shot....:P

How could anyone NOT like Close Encounters?

- Marc, wondering where everyone is.

:( The Escape from Close Encounters of the Third Kind

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