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2019: Most wanted Deluxe Edition treatment for a Jerry Goldsmith score by Varese Sarabande?


Most wanted Deluxe Edition treatment for a Jerry Goldsmith score by Varese Sarabande?  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. What Jerry Goldsmith titles owned by Varese Sarabande in perpetuity would you like to see expanded next? Chose three scores!

    • Our Man Flint/In Like Flint (1966/1967) => no CD release yet
    • The Mephisto Waltz (1971) => missing overlays
    • The Other (1972) => approx. 25 minutes unreleased
    • Mom and Dad Save the World (1991) => approx. 15 minutes unreleased
      0
    • Medicine Man (1992) => approx. 15 minutes unreleased
    • Mr. Baseball (1992)
      0
    • Love Field (1993) => approx. 20 minutes unreleased
    • Malice (1993) => approx. 5 minutes unreleased
      0
    • Matinee (1993) => approx. 15 minutes unreleased
    • Rudy (1993) => approx. 20 minutes unreleased
    • Angie (1994)
    • City Hall (1996) => approx. 10 minutes unreleased
    • L.A. Confidential (1997) => approx. 10 minutes unreleased
    • The 13th Warrior (1999) => approx. 20 minutes unreleased
    • Hollow Man (2000) => approx. 25 minutes unreleased
    • Along Came a Spider (2001) => approx. 25 minutes unreleased
    • Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003) => approx. 25 minutes unreleased
    • Timeline (2003) => approx. 30 minutes unreleased


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4 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

I would never revile it, but I agree with him that it is just not as good as many fans claim. There's nothing special about it, just very nice Americana. The emotional resonance is quite one-dimensional and neither is it musically of any special interest. Serviceable.

 

I believe that Rudy resonates much more with American listeners since the movie revolves around an uniquely-American iconic sport, college football, which just so happens to be celebrating 150 years this season.  College football generates a huge amount of passion and allegiances from the fan bases.  In some sections of the country (south) it is bigger than the NFL!  Many kids dream of growing up and playing for their favorite university, I know I sure did!  

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@Brundlefly, I thought it was time for a new poll, given the new year and the release of U.S. Marshals (which was the 3rd place winner in my initial Varese in-perpetuity poll on FSM, over four years a

I'm especially happy to see these titles off the list. I voted Air Force One, Medicine Man and Hollow Man.   Hopefully, the triple 80s L (Legend, Lionheart, Leviathan) will get a proper trea

AIR FORCE ONE number 1   Then I picked LA Confidential and the Flints

5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

“Serviceable” seems too dismissive a term for a score that does precisely what it needs to do (and couldn’t possibly do that job any better than it does, in my estimation). If it were a score with deep complexity (like many of Jerry’s) it would be a BAD score for the film.

It is not exactly what the film required. It would have needed more complexity - emotional complexity, not musical complexity. Goldsmith knew how not to force the latter into every of his works...

3 hours ago, publicist said:

It does precisely what every average, unimaginative composer would have done with the assignment, just with better themes.

...but the score is absolutely in line with Sleeping with the Enemy, Not without My Daughter and other early 90s-scores that didn't even hint at an attempt of a differentiated approach by the composer. That said, I don't expect Peter Proud every time, but Rudy is indeed quite (as I said) one-dimensional in that regard.

 

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

The implication is that "very nice Americana" is inherently un-special.

There is no implication of that sort.

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In its few real yuck-sincere moments, 'Rudy', like 'Powder', is syrupy, straightforward kitsch that only Bollywood could excel. I'm sure Yavar will drag out a few more interviewees gushing it to death, so there is finally scientific proof that it is a musical blessing sent by the gods. Memories of the old Hornershrine arise.

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7 minutes ago, publicist said:

In its few real yuck-sincere moments, 'Rudy', like 'Powder', is syrupy, straightforward kitsch that only Bollywood could excel. I'm sure Yavar will drag out a few more interviewees gushing it to death, so there is finally scientific proof that it is a musical blessing sent by the gods. Memories of the old Hornershrine arise.

 

Must be a sad existence to have such a cynical view in about 99% of your posts on here.  Thankfully that's why they created the "Ignore" feature.  Congrats!

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5 hours ago, publicist said:

It does precisely what every average, unimaginative composer would have done with the assignment, just with better themes.

 

And with a high level of Goldsmith elegance in its arrangements, in cues like Tryouts. That's good enough for me.

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7 hours ago, ATXHusker said:

Must be a sad existence to have such a cynical view in about 99% of your posts on here.  Thankfully that's why they created the "Ignore" feature.  Congrats!

Rational and prosaic thinking is a gift, especially in such gooey nostalgia-syrup forums. Someone has to balance the whole thing out. Sadly, cynism often is the only way to counter the tons of emotionally overloaded arguments here. That is what Brundlefly thinks.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just thought I'd give you a heads up, @Brundlefly -- if you check out the FSM board from the past couple days, I have updated many unexpanded (and some totally unreleased) Goldsmith scores, based on some official complete cue lists I found on the Academy's website (of their written score library holdings). Something like Mr. Baseball is only missing a handful of short single-page cues (so probably around a minute or so each, and about as much music as was missing total from the original Varese DE of The Omen, compared with their later 40th Anniversary edition). But other scores like City Hall, Medicine Man, and especially the partially-rejected Love Field, we now know just how many cues remain unreleased (and we don't have timings-as-performed, but we do know how many pages of music manuscript they are). Here's my Love Field post, for example, since it's the most interesting:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138078&forumID=1&archive=0


In other cases like for The Chairman, S*P*Y*S, etc. I bumped existing threads (many of them Complete Score Breakdowns by myself or DeputyRiley).
 

Yavar

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  • 1 month later...
18 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Right now, U.S. Marshals, The 13th Warrior and Medicine Man are in the lead!

 

Well we already know U.S. Marshals is coming soon, thanks to Bruce Botnick's Cinematic Sound interview. I imagine that 13th Warrior and Medicine Man are both titles Varese would expand (as some of Jerry's most popular 90s scores), as long as Disney is willing to play ball in terms of licensing the previously-unreleased music. Let's all cross our fingers!

 

Still, the Deluxe Edition I am hoping for most is Love Field! Just look at all the unreleased music there is, and that's not even including the alternates which obviously exist!
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138078&forumID=1&archive=0

 

Yavar

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Just that he had just finished working on it. Things can always be delayed, of course. He had specified The Swarm was coming out in November, but that turned out to be delayed (Kinda too bad because it would have fit perfectly in the batch with the Williams Disaster Scores set which was 2/3 Irwin Allen just like The Swarm).
 

Yavar

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I think we can rest assured that it will be in the coming Varése batch, there's no reason to hoard this stuff once it's mastered (it's just an old WB potboiler, so expect no studio politics). The bigger problem is that, after that i virtually need no more Goldsmith (not counting the rejected stuff).

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The worst offenders in those years always have been 'The Shadow', 'First Knight', 'AFO', 'Ghost and the Darkness', 'Small Soldiers' and 'Mulan', which thankfully all have been rectified. I still remember watching all these in cinema - back when middling movies still were worth a ticket for their music - and d'oh-ing through them with my mates. I still remember an onslaught of long fight sequences in 'The Shadow' and nothing of that stuff made it onto the album. 'US Marshals' is comparably OK by comparison, but hey, why not?

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33 minutes ago, publicist said:

The worst offenders in those years always have been 'The Shadow', 'First Knight', 'AFO', 'Ghost and the Darkness', 'Small Soldiers' and 'Mulan', which thankfully all have been rectified.

I only took notice of the existence of "The Shadow", "First Knight" and "The Ghost and the Darkness", when the expansions were already out. Just had to wait for Air Force One and Small Soldiers for like six and two years. This was a great decade to become a film music fan (on CD, not in cinema).

 

Mulan hasn't been rectified.

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I think he’s referring to the existence of the complete score on the Academy FYC promo. I spent $50 on mine, the most I’ve ever spent on a single CD, but I do hope a new edition comes out for everyone else...

 

BTW there are still other Varese 30 minute albums to be made obsolete with new editions — Love Field is another one of those. Mom and Dad Save the World and Matinee (surely the Dante expansions will continue) as well.

 

Yavar

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3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Can't say anything about Love Field and Mom and Dad Save the World, but at least Matinee has a satisfying album that is very representative of the score. U.S. Marshals and Mulan are the only scores left I know that really really need an expansion.


Matinee has like half an hour or more unreleased! (Including a great action cue!)

 

There’s a poor sounding 72 minute boot of the sessions out there. Also a sessions boot of Mom and Dad Save the World which sounds even worse. Both great scores that need good sounding official complete editions!
 

Yavar

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

@Brundlefly, I thought it was time for a new poll, given the new year and the release of U.S. Marshals (which was the 3rd place winner in my initial Varese in-perpetuity poll on FSM, over four years ago, with Small Soldiers and Air Force One -- also expanded since then -- in 1st and 2nd place, respectively). I decided to make it a bit more sophisticated, with a top 10 ranked choice system to really see what people's priorities were. I also added new info about the degree of unreleased music from these titles Varese controls, which might interest you and update your own info:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=140019&forumID=1&archive=0

And perhaps most excitingly of all, Spinmeister on FSM was inspired by my new thread/poll to produce new "Deluxe Edition" CD cover images for all the as-yet-incomplete Varese-controlled titles. I'll share them here, as they really let the mind soar with the possibilities, IMO! Just imagine getting some of these...

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Yavar

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14 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Which among these looks weirdest to you?

 

Just all those 70s movies at the top look like obscure movies we'd all never be discussing if they weren't scored by a genius composer

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6 hours ago, Jay said:

Just all those 70s movies at the top look like obscure movies we'd all never be discussing if they weren't scored by a genius composer


Ah...well at the *very* top are the two Flint scores which are 60s, not 70s. And those films actually have a following...I guess you could think of them as the original Austin Powers films, spoofing James Bond but with an American agent played by the great James Coburn. Scores are *super* fun, with Jerry doing his own 60s spy thing rather than copying Barry. But the movies aren't crap or anything, and are somewhat fondly remembered still.

As for The Ballad of Cable Hogue (the highest 70s title at the top) -- this is actually a *superb* film by the great Sam Peckinpah (The Wild Bunch). I highly recommend you see it if you haven't; it's unique, funny, and honestly emotionally powerful as well. I personally think it is Peckinpah's greatest film! (And Ride the High Country is what it is competing with, in my mind, though I do still like The Wild Bunch and recognize it as a great film as well.) Here's Ebert's review:
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-ballad-of-cable-hogue-1970

I guarantee you this film would still be talked about even if Jerry Goldsmith hadn't scored it. (His score is marvelous in the film, by the way, but as an album listening experience is towards the bottom for me in terms of Goldsmith westerns.)

The other two 70s films, The Mephisto Waltz and The Other, might fit your description of "obscure movies we'd all never be discussing if they weren't scored by a genius composer". They are somewhat well regarded by horror aficionados, I think, but I'm not one of those so I'm not sure on that. The Other was directed by the director of To Kill a Mockingbird.

Raggedy Man is I think a fairly obscure movie, but at that point we are in the 80s, so not sure if you're including it in your comment. (And after that it's all 90s.)

Yavar

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10 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I guarantee you this film would still be talked about even if Jerry Goldsmith hadn't scored it. (His score is marvelous in the film, by the way, but as an album listening experience is towards the bottom for me in terms of Goldsmith westerns.)

 

Cable Hogue has some of Goldsmith's most lyrical writing, so barring the more source-y cues it's still 15 minutes that are unique and sweet and cannot be rated as bottom, in whatever terms. The movie's great, that's for sure, Jason Robards rules.

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Nice cover arts by Spinmeister by the way, although I'm not a fan of the transparent Deluxe Edition banners that are sometimes hardly readable.

 

At the moment, I'm really not that much interested in more expansions of the 90s, because it often just means that we're about to get a few minutes of variations of existing material that isn't all that innovative to begin with. Most of the remaining 90s scores that really needed an expansion, because of unique material that wasn't on the OST have been expanded recently - Chain Reaction, The Haunting and Small Soldiers come to mind, whereas Air Force One and U.S. Marshals turned out not to be as substantial as I expected. Many scores like Matinee, Rudy and L.A. Confidential and especially Medicine Man, The 13th Warrior and Hollow Man already have wonderful OSTs with all the highlights on it. I'm too much into other music right now (classic, rock, jazz, hiphop, whatever) to care that much about unreleased third-rate Goldsmith music.

 

Love Field is the one thing that seems to really require an expanded release though. That and proper releases of the three horror scores The Mephisto Waltz, The Other and Damien: Omen II is what I would really like to add to my collection. I'm also very happy to see so many new releases of the 70s and earlier like Planet of the Apes, The Great Train Robbery, The Swarm and Morituri. Take away the Varese aspect, I'd really love to see new editions of Mulan, Leviathan, Lionheart, Supergirl, The Final Conflict and any other surprise in the vein of Damnation Alley or The Reincarnation of Peter Proud.

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