OBI-WAN KENOBI (Disney+ series)

[Alex 2,833]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Another thought. If this incoherent cramp of a story would at least serve as a vehicle to create some great action scenes, I would be ok. But the action scenes are actually quite bad, I think. Or am I the only one thinking that?

The action is really clunky and poorly directed imo.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

13 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

It wouldve been neat if when Obiwan first saw Vader he said "Anakin?" as if he didnt want to admit it was Anakin inside the suit. then Vader could say "That name no longer has any meaning to me" calling back to the line in RotJ

 

Yeah, but that would require the writers having a baseline familiarity of Star Wars. Most people who work for Lucasfilm these days don't.

[Bespin 8,472]

Believe me or not, but at first I didn't understand Obi-Wan's vision scene in the desert (Episode 3). Ok, maybe I should not watch Obi-Wan on my computer screen...

 

But for me it's a rookie mistake... You film in High Definition, oh, wow, it's hot.. But, geez, just re-edit this scene quickly and add a zoom shot on the face just for 2 seconds. Thanks.

 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

4 hours ago, Fabulin said:

Why does Obi-wan in this show contradict his character from both earlier and later stories?

• more impulsive than he was in Episode I despite being close to the very patient Alec Guiness age Obi-wan.
• constantly in a bad mood, whereas both Star Wars and prequel Kenobi found fun even in dire situations.
• blurrting out the wrong name? General Kenobi?
• can't catch Leia with the force when she does the toddler running away routine
• has to be rescued by Leia because he cannot improvise a conversation with a farmer
• generally has an IQ penalty equal to being drunk in relation to other Obi Wan portrayals

 

At least he can still use a gun and is good at unarmed combat.

Obi-Wan also contradict his character within the same episode too.

Spoiler

After being discovered by the Stormtroopers he kills them all and then less troopers come so he decides to surrender.

He refuses the farmer help because he can't trust someone he just met and then decide to let Leia go with an imperial officier he met less than a hour ago

He refuses to use his lightsaber prefering an "uncivilised" weapon while apparently everyone know that he's a Jedi and then decide to enlight it when there's no one around.

 

[Bespin 8,472]

Obi-Wan is perfect in the series with all his contradictions. HE IS LOST.

 

Spoiler

In each Episode he calls His Master Qui Gon for help, he's totally lost.

 

Poor Ben!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

14 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Obi-Wan is perfect in the series with all his contradictions. HE IS LOST.

 

  Hide contents

In each Episode he calls His Master Qui Gon for help, he's totally lost.

 

Poor Ben!

I liked that part

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

32 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Obi-Wan is perfect in the series with all his contradictions. HE IS LOST.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In each Episode he calls His Master Qui Gon for help, he's totally lost.

 

Poor Ben!

But he's closing himself to the Force so that can't really work

[GerateWohl 4,320]

35 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

  Hide contents

In each Episode he calls His Master Qui Gon for help, he's totally lost.

 

Poor Ben!

Spoiler

I guess, these are the excercises that Yoda gave Obi-Wan to contact his old master: "Just cry out for him desperately you must, when your eyes closed you have."

 

[rough cut 1,714]

S01E01 and E2 were ok. E03 though…

 

It all seems a bit stupid.

• Spoiler

  • Now that it is confirmed that Leia and/or Bail Organa is the link to Obi, wouldn’t they just go after them again and again to lure Obi out? (Pending Obi gets away at the end of the series…)
  • Obi seems rather inconsistently capable/incapable
  • If Vader was hell bent on killing Obi during their first encounter - dragging him through the fire with the force - why was he content just moments later seeing Obi being carried away instead of using the force again?

 

[greenturnedblue 372]

1 hour ago, May the Force be with You said:

After being discovered by the Stormtroopers he kills them all and then less troopers come so he decides to surrender

As if obi Wan couldn't take out a squad of like 10 stormies

[eitam 364]

1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

As if obi Wan couldn't take out a squad of like 10 stormies

 

That's the Obi-wan from the prequels, our Obi-wan has clearly fallen far from his best. 

[Bespin 8,472]

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

S01E01 and E2 were ok. E03 though…

 

Spoiler

It is clear that Vader don't want to kill Obi-Wan fast.

 

He wants to make him suffer as he suffered.

 

He let him go.

 

That's funnier like this.

 

[LSH 968]

Episode 3 is just one long cavalcade of fucking idiocy.

 

 

 

 

 

Just... walk around it?

[Faleel 5,326]

Then he'd get picked up on sensors. Or some crap.

 

 

(Just my stupid idiotic defense of the indefensible.)

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Or jump around it

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

Why do they keep putting Obi-Wan and Leia in life-threatening situations if we know they're ok?

 

I mean, I know the prequels did the same thing but come on...

[Chen G. 3,940]

1 hour ago, Muad'Dib said:

Why do they keep putting Obi-Wan and Leia in life-threatening situations if we know they're ok?

 

In most media, the main characters don't bite the dust, anyway. There are still ways to build tension.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

7 hours ago, rough cut said:

S01E01 and E2 were ok. E03 though…

 

It all seems a bit stupid.

•   Hide contents

  • Now that it is confirmed that Leia and/or Bail Organa is the link to Obi, wouldn’t they just go after them again and again to lure Obi out? (Pending Obi gets away at the end of the series…)
  • Obi seems rather inconsistently capable/incapable
  • If Vader was hell bent on killing Obi during their first encounter - dragging him through the fire with the force - why was he content just moments later seeing Obi being carried away instead of using the force again?

 

Vader wants to inflict everything Obi Wan did to him on Mustafar onto Ben, he even says as much

The part that is inexcusable is letting him get away

[Faleel 5,326]

6 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

 

The part that is inexcusable is letting him get away

You mean like he let Luke and co get Away on the DS1?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

9 minutes ago, Counterparts said:

You mean like he let Luke and co get Away on the DS1?

Really? He wasn’t anywhere near Luke and was in a state of confusion after Ben literally vanished in front of him

 

When he notices Luke yell he turns and starts moving towards him but Han manages to shoot the door in front of Vader shut (providing I’m remembering this correctly), and then they escape on a ship. After that, instead of sending an armada to obliterate them, Vader has taken advantage of their escape by previously hiding a tracker on their ship and can now track them to the Rebel base

 

At no point could Vader have done anything to Luke and co directly, and it was actually in his better interest to let them get away for the bigger prize of the Rebel base. It’s completely incomparable to standing mere metres away from your helpless target with one obstacle that you easily completely got rid of a couple of seconds ago

[Faleel 5,326]

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Man, that wasn't good. The budget limitations of the Disney+ model are really showing. This story (if it even needed to be told) really should have been a movie. The confrontation between Vader and Obi was so underwhelming. The direction was flat, the blocking/choreography clunky... Some nice visual language with the red and blue lightsabers in the dark, but compare it to the similar sequence in The Force Awakens between Rey and Kylo Ren (which had emotional stakes and brutal, heavy fight choreography) and it's almost laughable. Pathetic that Vader was stopped by a bit of fire that he and the stormtroopers could've easily walked around. And didn't he literally just extinguish a fire with the Force before the new one started? And couldn't do it again? Or, you know, pull Obi-Wan and his helpers into the fire? Maddening.

 

They shot their wad too early bringing in Vader at this point. The dramatic tension established at the end of the last episode is now all but gone. And c'mon Natalie, you had the perfect opportunity to knock this episode out of the park. The lack of Imperial March was enough, but what is there was just so thin and uninspired, the action music in the previous episode had more punch than this. I'm stoked she got this assignment but I really feel like she dropped the ball on this ep.

[Groovygoth666 650]

So far the biggest crux of the show is, well see what happens in the next episode to help contextualise what's going on. By that it means right now it feels like it'll be easier to judge the overall quality once the series is finished, in the meantime each episode leaves the audience in a sort of limbo. Episode three's Vader entrance doesn't come close to Rebel's first meeting for Ezra and Kanen. It just feels so up in the air, but hey we're halfway through already, so uumm let's show a little optimism?

 

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

When he notices Luke yell he turns and starts moving towards him but Han manages to shoot the door in front of Vader shut (providing I’m remembering this correctly)

When Obi-Wan dies it's Luke yells No, then starts blasting stormtroopers, Vader prods Obi-Wans robes, Han yells come on and to shoot and close the door, Luke then shoots and hits the controls as Vader is walking towards the door, Obi-Wan tells Luke to run.

[mstrox 6,637]

If you consider the powers Vader displayed in later media, Vader could easily have done something with the Force.  There’s a story reason  that he didn’t - he was letting them go so they could track them to the rebel base.

 

But, Vader could have stopped Luke from jumping down the Bespin shaft in ESB.  Kylo could have easily continued the fight with Rey in TFA when the ground split apart.  The reason they don’t is that it’s a space opera!  The distance is big drama!  They’re telling a six episode story about a broken Obi-wan getting his groove back, and in order to do so, they need to send him reeling, let him find his resolve, and eventually let him triumph.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

18 minutes ago, mstrox said:

If you consider the powers Vader displayed in later media, Vader could easily have done something with the Force.  There’s a story reason  that he didn’t - he was letting them go so they could track them to the rebel base.

 

But, Vader could have stopped Luke from jumping down the Bespin shaft in ESB.  Kylo could have easily continued the fight with Rey in TFA when the ground split apart.  The reason they don’t is that it’s a space opera!  The distance is big drama!  They’re telling a six episode story about a broken Obi-wan getting his groove back, and in order to do so, they need to send him reeling, let him find his resolve, and eventually let him triumph.

Hah, @Holko called it earlier. Even if we take it in the context of Vader's powers established outside of the OT, which I don't think is fair to the films at all, Vader's dejected body language implies that despite having the ability to grab Luke he was conflicted because of how his son literally wanted to die instead of be a willing servant. That's gotta suck ass as a father, even if you're Vader. I think even before ROTJ Vader did love his son, but it was in a warped way, he loved the idea of his progeny overthrowing the Emperor and ruling with another power individual, and I don't think he could even comprehend the choice Luke made there so he was thoroughly taken off-guard. It's also the first crack in the Vader shell, as Luke is one person that can put a chink in that hard exterior

There's this weird trend I've noticed where all of Star Wars gets lumped together in the sake of comparisons even when the circumstances are wildly different between the scenes being compared, and I think part of it just comes down to foggy memories of what actually happened

Like the TFA example:


Kylo is out of the fight due to being wounded by Rey and his lightsaber being destroyed, and the planet is literally crumbling around them both. Even if you believe Rey is powerful enough to cross that gap what on earth would be the point other than to kill Kylo which she is clearly already conflicted about? TFA gets a lot of things wrong but it's pretty good at visual storytelling and this scene is no exception, it's showing that a divide has been drawn between them as a result of the events that have taken place, and that good has triumphed - Rey stands tall and proud, blue lightsaber extended, Kylo is crippled on the ground and weaponless. Unfortunately that setup seems incredibly odd thanks to what follows in The Last Jedi given Kylo seems to hold no personal animosity towards Rey and even grows closer to her

[Tydirium 1,166]

Why isn't Bail Organa under arrest yet for treason?

 

Spoiler

So the daughter of an Imperial senator gets kidnapped as bait, and next thing you know a Jedi Master who has been in hiding for a decade, takes the bait and is spotted on not one, but two planets with that daughter. Admittedly, Reva says she knows Obi-Wan fought with Bail in the war... but does she believe Obi-Wan just came out of hiding simply because he somehow sensed this guy's daughter being kidnapped, all the way across the galaxy??? Keep in mind that Bail didn't even publicize the fact that Leia was kidnapped; he wanted to keep it on the down low.

 

Shouldn't Reva logically assume that Bail tipped off Obi-Wan, and therefore wouldn't that be treason, for Bail to have been knowingly withholding information about a Jedi all those years, rather than turning him in to the authorities?

 

[Holko 9,491]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

The reason they don’t is that it’s a space opera!  The distance is big drama!  They’re telling a six episode story about a broken Obi-wan getting his groove back, and in order to do so, they need to send him reeling, let him find his resolve, and eventually let him triumph.

Well do it in a way that doesn't make the villain so obviously dumb!

[mstrox 6,637]

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

Hah, @Holko called it earlier.

He did, because he was referring to a conversation that he and I (and some others) had separately from this board.  He knew I was coming!  He made same or similar points as you did at the time, none of which made sense to me in any meaningful way because it’s a discussion of physical mechanics and logistics in a melodramatic movie serial throwback about space wizards.

 

[Holko 9,491]

So you're just ignoring differences because of the genre, good writing and directing in the movies doesn't matter at all, terrible writing and directing in these shows is on the same level as them.

 

Also, this would be a new element in all those other examples we mentioned, something out of the context of those fights we just pull out of our ass to whine about. Here in this scene what happens is Vader can't do the exact same things he was literally just doing for no reason except the writers couldn't write themselves out of a corner they wrote themselves into so they just gave up.

[mstrox 6,637]

I find the writing and directing perfectly good.  The things I’m seeing people call bad are just conventions of the genre which have been present in various ways since 1977 and well before.  Mustache twirling villains tying people to train tracks and what have you.

[Holko 9,491]

Read my new paragraph.

[mstrox 6,637]

I read both paragraphs before I responded!

[Groovygoth666 650]

11 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Why isn't Bail Organa under arrest yet for treason?

 

  Hide contents

So the daughter of an Imperial senator gets kidnapped as bait, and next thing you know a Jedi Master who has been in hiding for a decade, takes the bait and is spotted on not one, but two planets with that daughter. Admittedly, Reva says she knows Obi-Wan fought with Bail in the war... but does she believe Obi-Wan just came out of hiding simply because he somehow sensed this guy's daughter being kidnapped, all the way across the galaxy??? Keep in mind that Bail didn't even publicize the fact that Leia was kidnapped; he wanted to keep it on the down low.

 

Shouldn't Reva logically assume that Bail tipped off Obi-Wan, and therefore wouldn't that be treason, for Bail to have been knowingly withholding information about a Jedi all those years, rather than turning him in to the authorities?

 

Whoops didn't realise we were supposed to use spoilers 

Spoiler

I thought Reva hired the bounty hunters to kidnap Leia to draw out Obi Wan? Even going to where they were keeping her only to find them on the floor on a drug trip? Why Leia, was maybe mentioned but can't recall, Bail does say the reason he came to Obi Wan to find her was to keep it on the down low, so yeah Reva not being suspicious of Bail once Obi Wan does turn up is odd, especially as he didn't make it public that his daughter had been kidnapped. And regular public or random stormtroopers not recognising her doesn't bother me, there's a whole lot of senators still so it's not beyond reason that they'd know who Leia is, but Obi Wan surely has something out about him. The probe droid turning up at the checkpoint, the whole time I was thinking they were going to ask to see his identification but Obi Wan would use his mind trick on them only for it not to work because of his disconnection from the force.

 

[Positivatee 327]

5 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Vader wants to inflict everything Obi Wan did to him on Mustafar onto Ben, he even says as much

The part that is inexcusable is letting him get away

 

It's only been ten years. Vader is still afraid of fire. 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

15 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

 

It's only been ten years. Vader is still afraid of fire. 

 

That would actually have been an interesting thing to communicate, and would have actually worked well (as well as giving Vader some more dimension which, let's face it, he's never really had since the suit went on). 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

He did, because he was referring to a conversation that he and I (and some others) had separately from this board.  He knew I was coming!  He made same or similar points as you did at the time, none of which made sense to me in any meaningful way because it’s a discussion of physical mechanics and logistics in a melodramatic movie serial throwback about space wizards.

 

Are you for real?

 

My defence was literally from an emotional standpoint, unless you want to argue emotion doesn’t matter in melodramatic space drama

 

It sure seems like you’re willing to bend over backwards to not have to address anything we specifically are saying

 

I think you misunderstand what I actually value about film. I put evoking emotion at the absolute top of the list, which is why I value consistency because I can only feel things if the illusion of these being real people in a real world is maintained. That doesn’t require 100% realism either because it’s contextual to the universe, as long as it follows it’s own internal mechanics then I can still buy it as real even if it’s way off from my own universe

 

Hence I like to approach analysis holistically, I don’t like singling out writing because all the elements of a scene contribute to its effectiveness. I know it may seem like it but I genuinely am not a robot who runs purely on rationality and logic, I just recognize those two things are very effective tools for achieving compelling cinema

 

2 hours ago, Positivatee said:

 

It's only been ten years. Vader is still afraid of fire. 

Wat

 

How does that stop Vader from dragging Kenobi through the fire like he did a couple seconds earlier?

[greenturnedblue 372]

Not to mention, he lives on a fire planet

[Tydirium 1,166]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

I find the writing and directing perfectly good.  The things I’m seeing people call bad are just conventions of the genre which have been present in various ways since 1977 and well before.  Mustache twirling villains tying people to train tracks and what have you.

 

It's just a "convention of the genre" to have Obi-Wan turn off a laser gate that he could have easily just walked around on either side?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

16 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

It's just a "convention of the genre" to have Obi-Wan turn off a laser gate that he could have easily just walked around on either side?

I'm going to pull a convention of the genre and do a sudden face-heel turn for a second here 

This is the kind of thing I can empathize with @mstrox on. I think you need to be careful about what you bring attention to as an issue because you should be looking at it from the frame of 'how does this interfere with what I think the goals of this scene are?'

In this case it makes absolutely no functional difference as to whether Kenobi shoots the laser-gate and proceeds, or goes around it. I think this is generally what people think of as 'nitpicks' because it's something that has extremely tiny consequences. It's also down to where the work puts its focus, in this case it's just a flashier way to proceed forward. If the scene was set up as a tense 'we have to make sure we hit the controls because we're being chased and there's no other way around it!' then it would be distracting if there was a shot that showed they could clearly just walk around it. It's also something that doesn't really muck with anything established, shoot controls of thing and it deactivates is a well known rule in Star Wars by now, it's a perfectly fine way to move forward that doesn't cost our heroes anything. As it stands, you have to be really disconnected from what's happening in the moment to notice this (which to be fair given the events that lead up to it, I can also empathize with)

[Holko 9,491]

Same for me for many of the complaints about Obi-Wan's confused little inconsistencies and imperfections, easily excused by the fact that he hasn't done anything at all for an entire decade, he's out of practice and emotionally disturbed.

[rough cut 1,714]

in the previous episode he kind of smoothly infiltrated that smugglers planet. Although In E03 he seems so paralyzed and dazed to the point where he lets the little girl take the lead? He almost has to grab her hand avd let himself be led along.

 

Wildly inconsistent.

 

And if the former is true - Vader should have cut him down without a problem but instead the writers had to save his a** by mechanics of deus ex machina.

[Holko 9,491]

2 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Wildly inconsistent.

because nothing happened at the end of the last episode that would have sent him emotionally reeling, he didn't find out anything new that would make him confused, in a lot worse state than in last episode

[Groovygoth666 650]

11 hours ago, LSH said:

Episode 3 is just one long cavalcade of fucking idiocy.

 

 

 

 

 

Just... walk around it?

Honestly thought of this scene when I saw that 

 

[Brónach 1,301]

Obi-Wan suffering from PTSD and guilt and discovering Vader is alive and hiding for years and not using the force should be way more interesting than this.

 

I know this character comes, essentially, from three absurd and terrible movies, yet I still feel it all hinges on Ewan and it all feels like a disservice to him, even if those three movies were really bad.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

19 minutes ago, Brónach said:

Obi-Wan suffering from PTSD and guilt and discovering Vader is alive and hiding for years and not using the force should be way more interesting than this.

 

I know this character comes, essentially, from three absurd and terrible movies, yet I still feel it all hinges on Ewan and it all feels like a disservice to him, even if those three movies were really bad.

I've recently been made aware that there's a novel called 'Kenobi' that takes place after Obi-Wan drops Luke off on Tattooine in the EU, I plan to check it out because I'm very curious to see how it handles the PTSD and guilt, especially with it being so fresh

[DarthDementous 1,059]

21 hours ago, Bespin said:

Believe me or not, but at first I didn't understand Obi-Wan's vision scene in the desert (Episode 3). Ok, maybe I should not watch Obi-Wan on my computer screen...

 

But for me it's a rookie mistake... You film in High Definition, oh, wow, it's hot.. But, geez, just re-edit this scene quickly and add a zoom shot on the face just for 2 seconds. Thanks.

 

I was kind of hoping that they were going to save the Hayden as Anakin for when Vader actually shows up, like Obi Wan is having some kind of delusion and doesn't realize what Anakin looks like now until that delusion is broken and he sees Anakin as he is. Would've been some effective visual storytelling and a great 'wtf?' moment for the audience having them believe for a second that somehow we're seeing Anakin pre-operation

As it stands Obi Wan seeing him on a hill in the distance right after arriving on the planet that Vader isn't on yet is kind of aimless

[Positivatee 327]

5 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

 Wat

 

How does that stop Vader from dragging Kenobi through the fire like he did a couple seconds earlier?

 

Wat do you mean wat 

 

There's a difference between Force dragging someone through short flames from a safe distance, and walking through tall flames yourself. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

21 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

 

Wat do you mean wat 

 

There's a difference between Force dragging someone through short flames from a safe distance, and walking through tall flames yourself. 

Wat x2

I said nothing about Vader walking into the flames himself, why would he have to do that when he can use the Force to grab Obi-Wan again at a safe distance?

I am immensely confused by your defense because the show itself demonstrated exactly what Vader would do in that situation, he just...doesn't when the flames start up again despite the circumstances being functionally identical

[Chen G. 3,940]

At any rate, it does feel as though Vader didn't do remotely enough to try and catch Obi-Wan.

 

I think that point is clear.

[Bespin 8,472]

I’m glad most of you aren’t writing scripts, music or anything related to films and TV.

 

Spoiler

And I think it's clear with Epsode 3 that Obi-Wan has a younger brother.

 

That's another reason to let Obi-Wan go.

 

Didn’t Vader tell Obi Wan: YOUR SUFFERING IS JUST BEGINNING?