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OBI-WAN KENOBI (Disney+ series)


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3 hours ago, Stu said:

At the risk of overstepping the forum rules line, this is a very good opinion article about the ugly circular/symbiotic relationship between "toxic fandom" and online media, both feeding the other.

 

https://unherd.com/2022/06/the-media-is-run-by-trolls/


That was an insanely eye-opening article, great share

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9 minutes ago, Brónach said:

 

I don't see what's socially divisive about mediocre or bad corporate schlock that has nothing to say about anything (on purpose)


That’s the ultimate joke of it all. People are drawing lines in the sand for the sake of virtual plastic

 

2 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I think it's part of the reason there's a rise in "zero pretense" criticism (ie the "average_______ enjoyer" Chad meme).

 

I think people are just tired of having participate in THE DISCOURSE(tm) for every piece of media.


I sympathise with that, I just ultimately want people to think about art more. The more of a cultural awareness there is, the better the art becomes in response. At least that’s what I believe

 

I want people to have reasons that they can cite for why they think what they do, which is why I’m immensely put off from the ‘turn your brain off attitude’. That doesn’t mean hold every movie to the same standard, that would be ridiculous, but rather use your brain to be more aware of why we react the way we do to stimuli, especially in the abstract sense

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43 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:


Hold on, do you think suppressing your grief is a sign of emotional maturity?

 

Yes. It's called compartmentalization. 

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2 hours ago, Positivatee said:

 

Millie Bobby Brown Reaction GIF by Converse

 

Millie Bobby Brown - next actress to play teen Leia just prior to Rogue One.  Gotta fill in every gap.

 

She does resemble though.

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3 hours ago, Stu said:

 

This is why we depend on JWFan as a throwback to the old internet when people yelled at each other for less socially divisive reasons

HZ sucks. Pirates is satan's music!!11

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Obi-Wan Kenobi 1x02 Part II

 

OK I know all ya'll have seen eps 3 and 4 and are about to see 5, but I haven't seen any of them yet and never shared my thoughts on episode 2.

 

I liked it!

 

The first episode was kinda boring but this one was fun throughout; I liked the Mandalorian-esque feel of arriving on a planet, having  an adventure, leaving the planet at the end.  The fake Jedi played by Kumail Nanjiani was really well done, and I genuinely didn't see it coming that Reva was just gonna kill her boss like that.

 

I was extremely confused by the fact that Reva had to reveal to Obi-Wan that Anakin was both alive and was called Darth Vader; wasn't that something he already knew? Or no?  I haven't seen ROTS since opening night in the theater, but doesn't know know this in the first movie from 77?

 

I also thought the music was much better in this episode than the first.  Well, to clarify, Holt's music was better; In the first episode, I loved all off Ross's adaptations of Wililams' theme on Tatooine, and didn't even really notice anything interesting Holt's team did.  This episode though, that seemed to mostly be Holt stuff, I noticed a bunch of nice enough cues throughout.

 

I'll get around to the next episode eventually but it's hard when this, The Orvile, The Boys, Barry, Ms Marvel, and South Park all have new episodes this month!

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Obi-wan knew that Anakin was called Darth Vader (Anakin was dubbed Vader by Palpatine prior to the suit, and obi-wan saw some recording in the Jedi temple that used the name), but as far as Obi-wan knew he had left Anakin for dead.  So the news for him was that Anakin was still alive.

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So ROTS ended with Obi-Wan assuming Anakin was dead, and ANH begins with Obi-Wan knowing Anakin in alive, and no Star Wars media had ever showed how he learned that until now? 

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There was a book that told that story some time ago, but it stopped being canon back when Disney bought Lucasfilm.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Lord:_The_Rise_of_Darth_Vader

 

Spoiler

Epilogue

The epilogue depicts Obi-Wan Kenobi, now under the guise of Ben Kenobi living as a hermit on Tatooine to watch over the infant Luke Skywalkerfrom a distance. Kenobi is shocked at the news to hear that Darth Vader, whom he believed he killed in his duel against him on Mustafar, is alive. He is then contacted by the spirit of his late Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, who assures him that Luke will grow to confront his father when the time is right and that Vader will never step foot on Tatooine ever again, for fear of his memories coming back to haunt him.

 


I suspect the rest of that epilogue will come to pass by the end of this series as well.

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

There was a book that told that story some time ago, but it stopped being canon back when Disney bought Lucasfilm.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Lord:_The_Rise_of_Darth_Vader

 

  Hide contents

Epilogue

The epilogue depicts Obi-Wan Kenobi, now under the guise of Ben Kenobi living as a hermit on Tatooine to watch over the infant Luke Skywalkerfrom a distance. Kenobi is shocked at the news to hear that Darth Vader, whom he believed he killed in his duel against him on Mustafar, is alive. He is then contacted by the spirit of his late Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, who assures him that Luke will grow to confront his father when the time is right and that Vader will never step foot on Tatooine ever again, for fear of his memories coming back to haunt him.

 


I suspect the rest of that epilogue will come to pass by the end of this series as well.

I've read this book multiple times when I was a kid, and I can't remember if it was this book or the Obi-Wan book, written by the same author I believe, and it states somewhere in it that 'Vader should have died on several different occasions' and then references Mustafar and Mimban (when Splinter of the Mind's Eye was Canon). And it might've been the Obi-Wan book where he mentions regret for not killing Anakin when he had the chance to. I look at it as Obi-Wan leaves Anakin for dead on Mustafar and he himself isn't sure if he's dead or alive and now for sure Reva has confirmed it. That's how I interpret it

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

There was a book that told that story some time ago, but it stopped being canon back when Disney bought Lucasfilm.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Lord:_The_Rise_of_Darth_Vader

 

  Hide contents

Epilogue

The epilogue depicts Obi-Wan Kenobi, now under the guise of Ben Kenobi living as a hermit on Tatooine to watch over the infant Luke Skywalkerfrom a distance. Kenobi is shocked at the news to hear that Darth Vader, whom he believed he killed in his duel against him on Mustafar, is alive. He is then contacted by the spirit of his late Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, who assures him that Luke will grow to confront his father when the time is right and that Vader will never step foot on Tatooine ever again, for fear of his memories coming back to haunt him.

 


I suspect the rest of that epilogue will come to pass by the end of this series as well.


Interesting, how many years after Kenobi dropping Luke off on Tattooine is that Epilogue supposed to be taking place? Because in the 'Kenobi' novel (although it did come out much later in 2013) about a year or two after dropping off Luke he has been regularly meditating trying to contact Qui-Gon but received no response. So, as long as it's after that time period that still lines up remarkably well and serves as a satisfying conclusion to what was set up in that book despite it chronologically being out of order. Ah...the old expanded universe how I miss thee

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On 15/06/2022 at 4:58 AM, Jay said:

So ROTS ended with Obi-Wan assuming Anakin was dead, and ANH begins with Obi-Wan knowing Anakin in alive, and no Star Wars media had ever showed how he learned that until now? 

 

Well, in 1977 of course Ben knew Darth Vader was alive because Darth Vader was just this former apprentice of his, and there's little indication that the duel existed as a concept at the time, and virtually no evidence of the debilitating scarring of Vader existing.

 

In Revenge of the Sith, you could read Obi-Wan knowing that Anakin lives into some of the lines: "We must take them somewhere where the sith would not sense their presence" but I don't think its very helpful to do so.

 

I do think its valuable to have some events take-place offscreen between entries rather than spelling everything out, and the pitfalls of spelling everything out are never more the case than in those shots we get here under the Vader suit: Gareth Edwards had the good sense of fogging those shots up, whereas here...

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Well, in 1977 of course Ben knew Darth Vader was alive because Darth Vader was just this former apprentice of his, and there's no indication that either the duel or the scarring of Vader existed as concepts at the time...

 

In Revenge of the Sith, you could read Obi-Wan knowing that Anakin lives into some of the lines: "We must take them somewhere where the sith would not sense their presence" but I don't think its very helpful to do so.

 

I do think its valuable to have some events take-place offscreen between entries rather than spelling everything out, and the pitfalls of spelling everything out are never more the case than in those shots we get here under the Vader suit: Gareth Edwards had the good sense of fogging those shots up, whereas here...

 

That's not between the lines. Obi Wan knows it. You should rewatch RotS.

 

The Kenobi writers show their absolute and true incompetence by creating another huge plot hole and story mistake.

This results in the end of Kenobi Episode 2 making no sense and directly conflicting with RotS.

 

After recalibrating the code to warn Jedi to stay away from Coruscant, Kenobi views a security recording of Anakin killing Jedi and younglings in temple. It then cuts to Anakin kneeling before Darth Sidious/Palpatine.

Sidious tells him, “You have done well, my new apprentice. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire.

2022.06.06-05.59-boundingintocomics-629e

 

After viewing the security footage, Yoda tells Obi-Wan, “Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.”

Obi-Wan is then tasked with killing Darth Vader by Yoda as he sets out to face off against Darth Sidious.

 

That means since that point of time Obi Wan knows that Anakin is called Darth Vader, even though at this point he is still without mask and injuries.

Later on when the name of the guy with the mask gets known as Darth Vader in the Galaxy, Obi Wan of course pieces it together that this must be Anakin!

 

In RotJ, Kenobi makes it abundantly clear to Luke that he knew Vader was alive when Luke questions him about the other that Yoda spoke of.

Kenobi tells Luke, “The other he spoke of is your twin sister.” Luke retorts, “But I have no sister.” Kenobi then explains, “To protect you both from the emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born.

(see https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/06/obi-wan-kenobi-writer-appears-to-be-oblivious-of-revenge-of-the-sith-has-no-clue-kenobi-knew-anakin-was-darth-vader/)

 

They obviously wouldn't hide Leia and Luke from Anakin, if the believed Anakin to be dead.

Also Padme says that "there is still good in him" when she dies. Why would she say that to Obi Wan that there is still good in Anakin, when they think Anakin is dead?

 

So this dialogue in RotJ and also RotS confirms that Obi Wan knew that Anakin is Vader at the end of RotS and that the Kenobi writers are completely incompetent, because this is a huge story mistake.

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Yes, we know Obi Wan knows Anakin now goes by "Darth Vader" but we don't know that he knows that Vader survived, except very implicitly when he says to Yoda that "we must take them somewhere where the Sith will not sense their presence."

 

I think having Obi-Wan be oblivious of Vader's survival is a decent conceit.

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Read the last part of my post,

 

In RotJ Kenobi tells Luke that he has hidden Leia and Luke from Vader/Anakin

That is at the end of ROTS and at that point Obi Wan seems to know that Vader/Anakin is still alive.

Otherwise why would they need to hide the kids from a dead man?

 

Padme says there is still good in Anakin on her deathbed, directly after the birth of Leia and Luke.

Why would she say that about a dead Vader/Anakin.

That also confirms that she and Obi Wan know that Vader/Anakin is alive.

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24 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

Also Padme says that "there is still good in him" when she dies. Why would she say that to Obi Wan that there is still good in Anakin, when they think Anakin is dead?

 

But when Padme birthed the twins and died, she didn't know what happened to Anakin during the Mustafar duel. Obi Wan ignored her when she asked, "is Anakin okay?" after the immolation scene.

 

At that point, Obi Wan assumed Anakin was dead, while Padme died assuming Anakin was alive.

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44 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

Otherwise why would they need to hide the kids from a dead man?

They wanted to hide the children from the emperor not from dead Anakin.

 

13 hours ago, Jay said:

and I genuinely didn't see it coming that Reva was just gonna kill her boss like that.

She didn't kill him. He will be alive again in Rebels and die there.

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„When I left you, I was but the learner now I am the master” was surprisingly well explained, I didn't expect that from this series. The idea was that as long as Anakin is playing boss, trying to prove himself, he would remain a padawan. Clever XD

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1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

 

She didn't kill him. He will be alive again in Rebels and die there.

😉😉😉😉

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5 hours ago, SF1_freeze said:

 

That's not between the lines. Obi Wan knows it. You should rewatch RotS.

 

The Kenobi writers show their absolute and true incompetence by creating another huge plot hole and story mistake.

This results in the end of Kenobi Episode 2 making no sense and directly conflicting with RotS.

 

After recalibrating the code to warn Jedi to stay away from Coruscant, Kenobi views a security recording of Anakin killing Jedi and younglings in temple. It then cuts to Anakin kneeling before Darth Sidious/Palpatine.

Sidious tells him, “You have done well, my new apprentice. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire.

2022.06.06-05.59-boundingintocomics-629e

 

After viewing the security footage, Yoda tells Obi-Wan, “Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.”

Obi-Wan is then tasked with killing Darth Vader by Yoda as he sets out to face off against Darth Sidious.

 

That means since that point of time Obi Wan knows that Anakin is called Darth Vader, even though at this point he is still without mask and injuries.

Later on when the name of the guy with the mask gets known as Darth Vader in the Galaxy, Obi Wan of course pieces it together that this must be Anakin!

 

In RotJ, Kenobi makes it abundantly clear to Luke that he knew Vader was alive when Luke questions him about the other that Yoda spoke of.

Kenobi tells Luke, “The other he spoke of is your twin sister.” Luke retorts, “But I have no sister.” Kenobi then explains, “To protect you both from the emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born.

(see https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/06/obi-wan-kenobi-writer-appears-to-be-oblivious-of-revenge-of-the-sith-has-no-clue-kenobi-knew-anakin-was-darth-vader/)

 

They obviously wouldn't hide Leia and Luke from Anakin, if the believed Anakin to be dead.

Also Padme says that "there is still good in him" when she dies. Why would she say that to Obi Wan that there is still good in Anakin, when they think Anakin is dead?

 

So this dialogue in RotJ and also RotS confirms that Obi Wan knew that Anakin is Vader at the end of RotS and that the Kenobi writers are completely incompetent, because this is a huge story mistake.

 

Thanks for this! That makes it pretty clear why I was so confused by Obi Wanvs reaction in episode 2, it does indeed make no sense and contradicts the original movies as well as the prequel movies. Weird. 

 

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

She didn't kill him. He will be alive again in Rebels and die there. 

 

I don't watch the cartoon shows and had never heard of this guy before. As far as the show I'm watching told me, she killed him. 

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53 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't watch the cartoon shows and had never heard of this guy before. As far as the show I'm watching told me, she killed him. 

So, I guess, you were as annoyed as I was, when Darth Maul suddenly showed up in Solo. You remember, Darth Maul, the guy, who was killed in episode 1.

With the live action shows they started heavily to mix up the cartoon shows and the movies.

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Not sure what you’re all on about, but I don’t see a possible conflict between the PT, the OT, and Obi-wan (as far as when Obi-Wan finds out Anakin is alive is concerned). Obi-wan isn’t shocked that Anakin is Darth Vader.  Obi-wan is shocked that Darth Vader is alive after being left for dead.
 

He knew Anakin was going by the name Darth Vader per ROTS.  He left Mustafar and the guy was on fire and clearly dying.  He found out, oh shit, Darth Vader is still alive (in this timeline, during the events of Obi-Wan season 2).  He discussed the situation with Luke in Return of the Jedi with the hindsight of twenty years (inclusive of the events of the Obi-wan mini and the preceding OT movies) and without a bunch of extraneous background information that would just confuse or bore a film audience.

 

As mentioned, this is something that Lucasfilm was aware of and engaged with in the previous Legends continuity as well.

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1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

So, I guess, you were as annoyed as I was, when Darth Maul suddenly showed up in Solo. You remember, Darth Maul, the guy, who was killed in episode 1.

With the live action shows they started heavily to mix up the cartoon shows and the movies.

 

I wasn't annoyed, no, but I was confused - but also intrigued!  I liked that movie and thought it was a good reveal that his lady friend was working for bad guys, as well as the fact that the specific bad guy she was working for was Darth Maul.  I had no clue he was already known to be alive via cartoon shows I'd never seen, and just assumed at the time that it was something that'd be explained in the next Solo movie.  Later when I learned the full context of the cameo I kinda liked it even more, especially if a subsequent movie filled you in on any details I'd need to know from the shows I don't watch.

 

Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett ended up getting filled with cartoon characters I had no clue who they were as well, but they always provided enough context that I was never lost, confused, or annoyed at all

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Okay, episode five was better than the rest. I liked the flashback scenes to AOTC—that's what I expected from the series. I'm hoping Natalie Portman and Ian McDiarmid are in the finale!

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I would have taken a bit of this de-aging filter in Hayden's flashback scene... :D

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When Vader walks through the cave it really sounds like the drums/strings are playing a part from The Imperial March.

 

And when Vader breaks Reva's lightsaber in 2 and throws one half to her the big string lines sound like they come from Duel Of The Fates.

 

 

The action music in the cave + Tala's sacrifice & the Vader ship hold + Reva Vs. Vader were really some standout moments scorewise. Hope they're in the soundtrack.

 

I can see we maybe get to hear The Force Theme, The Imperial March & maybe Battle Of The Heroes in the final episode.

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21 minutes ago, Andy said:

They are brave to do that.  I'd hate to be the person screening the questions.

 

Episode 5 was entertaining, but frustrating, and setting some really dangerous precedents.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Darth Maul already set that precedent in CW.

 

Hell, Aggresive feelings have been the Sith's source of "strength" since, what, ESB?

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I had a hard time accepting it with Maul too. 

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At least with Maul and Palpatine, there was some struggle and physical deformity.  This guy acted like he just got over some acid reflux. 

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Being pinned down in that underground base gave me some Crait vibes. 

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The flashback scene to Coruscant was very strange. No spaceship traffic in the sky. 

 

But if the show were to end this season, without Vader and Kenobi meeting again until the Death Star, it would be okay. 

 

"When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master." 

 

We see via flashback and decoy ownership that even ten years after Mustafar, Vader is still a learner. 

 

With the show renewed for Season 2...where will they go and what will they do? Luke is definitely in danger now. 

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Now we know, Kylo Ren is a pussy. Almost dying just because he got stabbed with a lightsaber by Rey. And she had to heal him. For inquisitors just a scratch.

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4 hours ago, Andy said:

At least with Maul and Palpatine, there was some struggle and physical deformity.  This guy acted like he just got over some acid reflux. 

He does have two stomachs ;)

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6 hours ago, Positivatee said:

 

 

With the show renewed for Season 2...where will they go and what will they do? Luke is definitely in danger now. 

 
Is it really?  

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