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OBI-WAN KENOBI - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes


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10 hours ago, Positivatee said:

 

One of the two younglings with speaking parts after their Jedi teacher/protector falls is black. 

 

Reva is black. 

 

There aren't many blacks in Star Wars, so when you see a young girl and an older woman ten years later, they might want you to think they're the same person. 


I don't know about you, but particularly with modern Star Wars which looks to diversify the racial representation across the board, it's not very intuitive of me to assume that they're the same character because they're black

What would've been far more effective from a filmmaking standpoint I think (if that is actually supposed to be Reva), is to zoom in on the Padawan's scared face and then cut to Reva as she is now. Boom, easy connection set up that shows without telling through juxtaposition. I would also use this opportunity to flesh out the Inquisitor's perspective, a de-briefing before their trip to Tattooine in the Fortress Inquisitorius would go a long way in regards to making them compelling antagonists and would give great opportunities to show the team dynamic as well as the general Inquisitor mentality
 

8 hours ago, mstrox said:

Personally I think the specific nature of the work matters zero.  What it says about Obi-wan’s situation:  he’s doing menial labor for little to no pay, he’s skimming some off the side for his beast of burden, he’s doing nothing about a ruthless boss taking advantage of his needy workers, etc.  What he’s carving, how long he’s been doing it, etc. is something for the Star Wars Kenobi Visual Guide or whatever they’ll put out, or for the Wiki editors to piece together from seven different secondary sources. Who cares?


I actually agree here, that's very much not the point of the scene and we aren't given nearly enough established information to be able to say whether there's an issue or not

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1 hour ago, Andy said:

My not so clever theory on why Reva is so personally pissed at Benny:

 

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During Order 66. It was Obi-Wan who recalibrated the Jedi Temple Beacon warning all Jedi to stay away.  Any Younglings left behind or hiding were abandoned at his personal request.  Reva was one of the Younglings, and saw Obi’s message, obliterating any hope of rescue by Jedi  

 

That's too clever.  It's gonna be because she hates Jedi

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8 hours ago, Positivatee said:

 

Yes to the second sentence but no to the first. 

 

She's an Inquisitor. She's been brainwashed by the new regime. She uses a red bladed lightsaber which means she is in tune with the Dark Side. I don't think she would blame the Jedi for ruining her life. She would blame them for holding her back for the first half of her young life. The Dark Side and Empire offer power and freedom that the Jedi refused to embrace. She serves her Empire. They have improved her life now. As a Jedi youngling, she was no doubt taken from her family long enough before this story even started. 

 

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Of course, my prediction is that over the next four short episodes, she will inevitably become the heroine of the story and be redeemed because Girl Power. 

 

She will want to capture Kenobi to gain favor with Vader, of course, because she is young and ambitious. The other Inquisitors respect Vader enough to let him be the one to chase Kenobi because it's personal. 

Since childhood she has been brainwashed with lies, and make her hate the jedi.

 

thats what a sith would do

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The new episode was great

 

Spoiler

Darth Vader was awesome. Cool to see him again. The duel between Obi-Wan & Vader was good. They made it clear that Obi-Wan isn't at his full power and it was clear that Vader held back. Obi-Wan used 2 hands on his lightsaber the whole time and Vader only used 1.

The scene where Vader threw Obi-Wan in the fire was cool.

 

The show is a bit slow but I really like it.

 

Holt's score for me was the best of the 3. A lot more orchestral, especially the last 20 minutes.

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Surprise, I’m continuing to like this show!  Welp, I’ll be back after work.  Can’t wait to see everyone else’s lavish praise!!!

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6 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

The new episode was greta

 

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“How you dare!”

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Genuinely stunned by how good Vader’s voice was

 

The only thing I can think of is that they re-targeted JEJ’s new lines with a model of his younger voice, because it did not have the stiffness of something entirely AI generated. I could hear emphasis and genuine malice in the voice which to my knowledge can’t be made without some kind of reference

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Well this one was mostly just OK/eh, not mixed awful like the first 2.

 

JEJ sounded great indeed but Vader looked stupid in the first scene on that throne in that weirdly lit room, and they couldn't even get his mask to line up properly in a shot they hang on multiple times where you can hear it fitting properly and pressurising. Also it took a lot away from his presence later on.

 

The alien sounding like Kersh was fun.

 

Leia still sucks. So she's a mini-adult prodigy who in one of her introductory scenes faces her cousin for being an asshole pretending to be better than he is but now she autotrusts everyone and has to be told people lie? Write her consistently at least!

 

Now I hate the asian inquisitor too with that drawn-out voice.

 

Vader looked cool until that overlit overflashy stupid fight straight out of that's straight out of that terrible remake of their SW fight on youtube. The fire torture was a nice idea but jesus fucking christ dude, you almost burned to a crisp and your suit isn't fireproof? You can't, you know, USE THE FORCE to drag him back like you JUST DID before stopping it and telling a trooper to bring him to you for no reason? Why write yourself into such a corner when all you can do to write yourself out of it is make the villain an unthreatening unscary dumbass?

 

So finally we're off Tats and where do we go for the second planet? Another dully lit dull tan desert.

 

I guess everything else was OK. Some shots of Obi on the truck looked real weirdly focused and coloured and detailed like they CGd him over or something.

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I liked Obi-wan et Leia's interactions better in this episode, especially their undercover stint on the truck and Obi-wan opening up about his family. And wait, he said that he wishes Leia were his daughter, is that supposed to mean that he regrets not having children of his own, or that he was in love with Padme ? :conf:

 

Vader looked a little wrong in television format, and A LOT wrong in that first scene on Mustaphar. That was horribly done. You don't reintroduce an iconic character like this with a boring business phone call. 

The voice was good though, so that was that. 

 

I appreciate and respect that they are sticking to an unheroic and out of his depth Obi-wan, but that means his character arc better resolve with some sparks... 

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22 minutes ago, eitam said:

You don't reintroduce an iconic character like this with a boring business phone call. 

You dont introduce a character like that without the imperial march. Nonsense.

 

the duel music was old fashioned musically decent but so athematical that it didnt work imo.

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6 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

You dont introduce a character like that without the imperial march. Nonsense.

 

Nah, it wouldn't have saved the scene. In fact, the imperial march would have been indelibly ruined if it had been used there.

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OK, I imagined a scene where Anakin is trying new voices using his Darth Vader kit and Palpatine is telling him: "No, not that one, try another one... BTW, can you do something with that Canadian accent... No, another one, more mature... Ok, now try something more posed. Ok, now that's better, that's the one, make sure you remember the settings...".

 

:lol:

 

Okay, I'll start Obi-Wan Episode III.

 

 

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I’ve mostly been fine with Obi Wan’s characterisation so far but I think it took a misstep this episode

 

This lad has been on the run from the galactic government for years now, he should be significantly more paranoid and far more guarded about what he says, feeling like that he can trust absolutely nobody

 

So to have him ousted because he blurts out Leia and then starts openly talking about being a Jedi after the fact is an incredibly strange choice for the character that takes away from his believability 

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I really enjoyed it. The tension of Vader’s arrival was well done.   He really was fearsome walking through the streets.   I’m assuming this clash was round 1 of 2, so I’m willing to accept Vader saying “oh drat!” and twirling his mustache while the fire allowed Benny to escape.  Remember, this is after all, space opera. 
 

That said, while fun to watch, there’s a bit of unnecessary-ness with which I’m trying to reconcile.   
 

The score during the Imperial base scene was quite loud and… well, loud.   There was also some exotic(?) vocals for the arrival on the mining world.   Spot sparingly, people!  Star Wars has a rich history of unique and innovative sound design. I’d like to hear more of that natural air and environment rather than plastering the mix with background music. 
 

No one has mentioned the absolutely lovely exchange between Benny and Leia about her mother and his earliest memories of his parents, and possibly a baby brother.  There was real sadness that he never knew them, and I felt like he had to lean heavily on the Jedi indoctrination to convince himself it was right for him.   Ewan’s performance was spot on in conjuring up murky memories for the audience to envision.  Star Wars is great when it seeds your imagination instead of filling it in for you, which is what all prequels do. 

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19 minutes ago, Andy said:

I really enjoyed it. The tension of Vader’s arrival was well done.   He really was fearsome walking through the streets.   I’m assuming this clash was round 1 of 2, so I’m willing to accept Vader saying “oh drat!” and twirling his mustache while the fire allowed Benny to escape.  Remember, this is after all, space opera. 
 

That said, while fun to watch, there’s a bit of unnecessary-ness with which I’m trying to reconcile.   
 

The score during the Imperial base scene was quite loud and… well, loud.   There was also some exotic(?) vocals for the arrival on the mining world.   Spot sparingly, people!  Star Wars has a rich history of unique and innovative sound design. I’d like to hear more of that natural air and environment rather than plastering the mix with background music. 
 

No one has mentioned the absolutely lovely exchange between Benny and Leia about her mother and his earliest memories of his parents, and possibly a baby brother.  There was real sadness that he never knew them, and I felt like he had to lean heavily on the Jedi indoctrination to convince himself it was right for him.   Ewan’s performance was spot on in conjuring up murky memories for the audience to envision.  Star Wars is great when it seeds your imagination instead of filling it in for you, which is what all prequels do. 


'This is a space opera' really does not supersede or excuse Vader literally expressing his intention to capture Kenobi so he can torment him in his own time, to then giving up because some fire was in his way that he easily extinguished with the Force earlier

I don't think it's a convention of the space opera genre for the villain to act against their expressed motivation so the hero can get away, at least that certainly doesn't happen in the Original Trilogy or even the Prequel Trilogy unless I'm forgetting something

It's definitely on the creators to provide a plausible scenario that prevents the villain from being able to immediately pursue and capture the target or else it takes you out of the experience. For example, at the end of Empire Strikes Back Vader is extremely keen on capturing Luke and his friends, but they end up reactivating the hyperdrive which until TLJ was impossible to track because you could be jumping to literally anywhere. Vader knows this, and in a really nice character moment instead of punishing the terrified Imperials like he has done before in the movie, he knows that the failing is down to his plan and so he just stalks off

I think they could've constructed a situation in which Vader is too pre-occupied to pursue Kenobi being dragged away by the binary load-lifter, perhaps if the explosives were pretty much right in front of Vader and he has to use the Force to create a barrier around himself to slowly hold back and walk out of the engulfing explosion whilst Kenobi is whisked away, and then when he emerges he's completely gone. As it stands there's literally no in-universe reason why Vader doesn't just yank the broken Kenobi back with the Force, it's unfortunately a poor sequence overall

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1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

For example, at the end of Empire Strikes Back Vader is extremely keen on capturing Luke and his friends, but they end up reactivating the hyperdrive which until TLJ was impossible to track because you could be jumping to literally anywhere. Vader knows this, and in a really nice character moment instead of punishing the terrified Imperials like he has done before in the movie, he knows that the failing is down to his plan and so he just stalks off

Some brought up and will bring up Luke jumping down the pipe, there it's just his disappointed shock that his son who he so expected to join him would rather kill himself.

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

Some brought up and will bring up Luke jumping down the pipe, there it's just his disappointed shock that his son who he so expected to join him would rather kill himself.


I think there's a bit of sleight of hand in the context of the OT as well, given that we never see someone use the Force to grab/levitate another person. If Vader had lifted those he choked up telekinetically then I think that would be more across people's minds when watching that scene

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The spectrogram on Vader's dialogue in the center channel looks interesting; you can see the frequency bobbing up and down, which is indicative of AI text to speech voices. Also it sounds a little odd, you can hear sections of words sped up and slowed down constantly, and kind of a strange "filter" sound. It was definitely at least "improved" with AI, even if JEJ recorded new lines.

 

It sounds damn good though. Having a slight "robotic" sound if anything is a good thing here, considering in-universe it's supposed to be a robot voice. :P

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57 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:


I think there's a bit of sleight of hand in the context of the OT as well, given that we never see someone use the Force to grab/levitate another person. If Vader had lifted those he choked up telekinetically then I think that would be more across people's minds when watching that scene

Vader did that already in Rogue One.

12 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm guessing it could have been worse, ...

It can always be worse. There is no limit to crappiness.

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1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Vader did that already in Rogue One.

It can always be worse. There is no limit to crappiness.


When I said 'in the context of the OT' I mean in the context of only the Original Trilogy. I don't think it's fair to judge those movies by things established outside of them especially when they often end up contradicting them

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

The spectrogram on Vader's dialogue in the center channel looks interesting; you can see the frequency bobbing up and down, which is indicative of AI text to speech voices. Also it sounds a little odd, you can hear sections of words sped up and slowed down constantly, and kind of a strange "filter" sound. It was definitely at least "improved" with AI, even if JEJ recorded new lines.

 

It sounds damn good though. Having a slight "robotic" sound if anything is a good thing here, considering in-universe it's supposed to be a robot voice. :P


Appreciate the audio analysis, the end credits for Episode 3 credits Respeecher which is a piece of software that replaces someone's voice but keeps the original performance, so that would explain the artefacting you're seeing here even if it was just current JEJ re-targeted to past JEJ

And yep, Vader is the perfect candidate for this kind of thing given the robotic filters already on his voice

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The trilogy contradicts itself internally, too.

 

I think its best not to lump Star Wars films into trilogies and look at them individually: that we look at them is trilogies at all is because that's how George Lucas would want us to, because he wants to create a facade of having concieved of them as trilogies.

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I haven't succeed to finished this third episode, too much nonsense IMO with Obi-Wan changing his mind every single scene

The music is I think catastrophic, espacially the Vader's treatment. I think that there are two themes in cinema that you shouldn't change while making a sequel/spin-off Jaws Main Title and The Imperial March. How could Holt and the people at Lucasfilms think that it was a good idea to replace Vader's theme, that's beyond my understanding.

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11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The trilogy contradicts itself internally, too.

 

I think its best not to lump Star Wars films into trilogies and look at them individually: that we look at them is trilogies at all is because that's how George Lucas would want us to, because he wants to create a facade of having concieved of them as trilogies.

What are some examples of internal contradiction in the Original Trilogy? I only go with the approach of regarding sequels individually when they fail at connecting as a whole (which is why I tend to separate the OT from the PT), in that regard I'm more interested in outcome rather than intent. I believe the OT is cohesive but I'm open to changing my mind if you have some good examples

And no, Luke kissing Leia is not what I'd consider an internal contradiction :lol: it is however proof towards Leia not originally being planned to be Luke's sister. To be a bit more specific so someone doesn't accuse me of moving the goalposts, when I say 'internal contradictions' I'm talking about something a sequel establishes that directly contradicts an event or character motivation from a previous movie for no good reason. In the moment Luke kissed Leia, he didn't know it was his sister so it's not contradictory to the motives of the character, just really unfortunate in hindsight

I'm also referring to the theatrical cuts of the OT

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36 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

I haven't succeed to finished this third episode, too much nonsense IMO with Obi-Wan changing his mind every single scene

The music is I think catastrophic, espacially the Vader's treatment. I think that there are two themes in cinema that you shouldn't change while making a sequel/spin-off Jaws Main Title and The Imperial March. How could Holt and the people at Lucasfilms think that it was a good idea to replace Vader's theme, that's beyond my understanding.

I agree with most of what you said. But I would be fine with no imperial march since this is closer to episode IV where there was no imperial march, too. But then rather references to the imperial music from A New Hope would have been nice. But to be honest, I don't mind the themes. When you listen to the music carefully, there is hardly any moment of music that I would actually call an orchestral composition. The score is driven by the typical modern percussion, string ostinati and here and there some fanfares. This is not, what is an orchestral music in the sense and quality that I would expect from a Star Wars score. Yes, they could put the imperial march melody on top of it. Or the force theme melody. But really, I don't mind putting those melodies on top of that music. Do it or don't. It doeesn't make the music really better.

 

Speaking of contradiction. I said, I don't comment here until I have something positive to say. 

What I found interesting was the appearance of Vader, which at first reminded me of the Vater from the Darth Vater Comics like Doctor Aphra etc. Always in a bad mood, torturing and threatening his subordinates and everyone he meets, totally overpowered, permanently using the force. That was ok. 

But then, what happened as that female ally put out the fire? Why didn't Vader stop the flames like he did before and just went away?

 

And I must confess, I don't really understand Obi Wan's character here. Ok. He is hiding to protect Luke. And he tells Owen, that Luke must be trained by him, when he is old enough. By why is he so hesitant to use the force?

And what is this "That's not my area of responsibility" attitude? Seems to me, somehow they made him an inconsistent mixture of dutiful Obi-Wan, grumpy old Luke, desparate and disillusioned on his island in episode 8 and Mando developing a kind of step father relation ship with Leia like Mando and Grogu.

 

And all of that leads to a hell of contradictions with episode 4.

In R2's message in 4 Leia calls him Obi-Wan, not Ben, referencing that he served her father in the clones wars and not to their relationship which is weird if she even sees him as some kind of father figure now.

This meeting with Vader damages the reunion of Obi Wan and Vader in 4 as well. Vader saying in 4 "When I left you I was the pupil, now I am the master". There they definitely meet again the first time, since they separated in 3. The series would be much better without bringing Vader in. Since Vader now is obviously such an idiot. I hoped they would leave that kind of Vader to the LEGO short films.

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46 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

And no, Luke kissing Leia is not what I'd consider an internal contradiction

 

Its very easy to talk about appearant internal contradictions, but there's something else which is how we feel. And I don't think anyone can, in good faith, say the classic trilogy is homogenous in terms of plot, cinematic style, characterization or anything, really. That is not to say the individual parts thereof are better or worst, but as a trilogy, they don't particularly hold well together except when seen through rose-tinted glasses.

 

I can speak for my own experience when I first watched those films, the transition from the original Star Wars to The Empire Strikes Back gave me whiplash, a little bit like the transition to Prisoner of Azkaban, in the sense that everyone is still there, going by the same names and played by the same actors, but it feels so different, they may as well be films from a different series alltogether.

 

And then are plot elements which, while don't overtly clash, still ring hollow: the father reveal is a huge one. I'm sorry, but I can never ever watch the original Star Wars thinking: "Oh right, that's Anakin Skywalker under that helmet" because it just clearly isn't. Painfully so. Which is to say nothing of the sister reveal. But its true of a lot of smaller stuff.

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56 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Its very easy to talk about appearant internal contradictions, but there's something else which is how we feel. And I don't think anyone can, in good faith, say the classic trilogy is homogenous in terms of plot, cinematic style, characterization or anything, really. That is not to say the individual parts thereof are better or worst, but as a trilogy, they don't particularly hold well together except when seen through rose-tinted glasses.

 

I can speak for my own experience when I first watched those films, the transition from the original Star Wars to The Empire Strikes Back gave me whiplash, a little bit like the transition to Prisoner of Azkaban, in the sense that everyone is still there, going by the same names and played by the same actors, but it feels so different, they may as well be films from a different series alltogether.

 

And then are plot elements which, while don't overtly clash, still ring hollow: the father reveal is a huge one. I'm sorry, but I can never ever watch the original Star Wars thinking: "Oh right, that's Anakin Skywalker under that helmet" because it just clearly isn't. Painfully so. Which is to say nothing of the sister reveal. But its true of a lot of smaller stuff.


Okay...but you were the one that made the claim that the trilogy internally contradicts itself, so I don't really understand this pivot

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12 hours ago, eitam said:

he said that he wishes Leia were his daughter, is that supposed to mean that he regrets not having children of his own, or that he was in love with Padme ? :conf:

He was just being polite, sorry to disappoint her.

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1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:
Spoiler

Did Reva now kill the grand inquisitor? That same grand inquisitor one that was killed in Rebels at the fight with Kanan and Ezra?

 

 

They just secretly put him in a bacta tank. Death means nothing in SW now.

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4 minutes ago, Holko said:

They just secretly put him in a bacta tank. Death means nothing in SW now.

I forgot.

At least for villains

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Rey got resurrected too. Boba's lady friend too, Boba too, Timothy Olyphant too.

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Which is the biggest joke, since George Lucas based in the end his whole saga, the whole tragedy of Darth Vader on his impotence to save people from dying.

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Why does Obi-wan in this show contradict his character from both earlier and later stories?

  • more impulsive than he was in Episode I despite being close to the very patient Alec Guiness age Obi-wan.
  • constantly in a bad mood, whereas both Star Wars and prequel Kenobi found fun even in dire situations.
  • blurrting out the wrong name? General Kenobi?
  • can't catch Leia with the force when she does the toddler running away routine
  • has to be rescued by Leia because he cannot improvise a conversation with a farmer
  • generally has an IQ penalty equal to being drunk in relation to other Obi Wan portrayals

 

At least he can still use a gun and is good at unarmed combat.

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So Vader's now looking for Obi and met Obi and fought Obi and wants to torture Obi. Now he let obi go so he can search for him again and continue. By STAR WARS he obviously isn't actively looking for Obi, he barely even remembers him until meeting him again. So by the end of this series he has to believe Obi's dead even though he obviously won't be, so he'll just be another dumbass movie villain assuming their foe's dead already and walking away, even though he knows first hand how Obi walking away assuming Anakin will die on his own turned out (the Obi who already met Maul again after not killing him properly). Either this or Obi has to go to Kamino and get a hyperfast-aging clone of himself to throw to Vader as meat.

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People in this universe need to learn how to kill others properly. 

 

Karol

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And also in this series they follow the sequel tradition: Stormtroopers make prisoners, rebels don't, they kill any stormtrooper without hesitation.

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